Need some advice...3.2/3.3sgpa 31 mcat, great ECs. MD chances?

[gyngyn]

Yes I bought it a couple months ago. What should I target?

Identify IS schools where you are within normal limits and every OOS school that accepts at least 15% where your stats are acceptable. There should be at least a dozen to give yourself a decent chance. You realize that you are already a good candidate for DO.

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[shaner123]

Identify IS schools where you are within normal limits and every OOS school that accepts at least 15% where your stats are acceptable. There should be at least a dozen to give yourself a decent chance. You realize that you are already a good candidate for DO.

I understand I am a great applicant for DO but I was looking at the MD route more. Is there really many schools where I have a decent shot since my GPA is terrible?

 

[gyngyn]

I understand I am a great applicant for DO but I was looking at the MD route more. Is there really many schools where I have a decent shot since my GPA is terrible?

Start with Goro's list. Add another half dozen per my description. If you don't get interviews by fall, reconsider DO or an SMP. That really all you can do with that gpa.

 

[shaner123]

Start with Goro's list. Add another half dozen per my description. If you don't get interviews by fall, reconsider DO or an SMP. That really all you can do with that gpa.

Thanks for your help. I'll do what you advised. I was offered a chance for masters at my university in entomology. If I'm not accepted this cycle should I do that during the gap year and then reapply?

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

No, doing post-bac courses or a SMP would be better. A masters in an unrelated field will be of little benefit. Honestly, you should probably be looking at post-bac summer courses + fall courses in the meantime, regardless.

I am only a junior right now so I can't do postbacc yet. Would even one or two summer courses help any?

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

If you can get above your current average, every little bit helps. Absolutely focus on your GPA for now. Master's gpa doesn't really count.

Do you think I have a chance applying this cycle?

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

Always a chance, not sure why you don't want to go DO though, apply to both and might save you from wasting a year or two.

Goro's list:

I want to do orthopedic surgery so I would like to get into an MD school due to residency competitiveness. My dream schools are ones in New York City. As an OOS applicant is all hope lost?

 

[TXKnight]

I think you've heard great suggestions, and that is really all you can do with you stats. Continuing to Ask more of the same will not yield nothing new. However, I want to add that you might want to seriously consider DO. I understand you may (erroneously) believe you are selling yourself short. You are not. Good luck op!

 

[bambam92]

@ OP if you have the MSAR as you say you do, you will realize all NYC schools are WAYYY out of reach for you..NYU, Columbia, Sinai, and Cornell are the Manhattan schools and they all have GPA medians of 3.9 and 36 MCAT averages. Maybe you have shot at einstein which is in the Bronx, but hey, still NYC. It seems like you have brushed off ever ones advice on here to try to increase your GPA, and that you are going to just plow on this cycle. But relax on the ortho, and NYC med school notions and worry about getting into any med school first. Because with your stats you have your work cut out for you.

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

NYC schools, and basically everything but the bottom tier med schools are out with your current stats. The path you've set for yourself requires a lot of hard work and likely more years of time. Its not out of your grasp, but you need to consider if there are alternative ways to meet your goal, or if your goal is truly realistic. Ortho is extremely competitive, and hard to get into even for those who good grades come naturally. So these are questions you must answer yourself. Not impossible, but I'll admit unlikely, and there are much more convenient ways to accomplish essentially the same goal.

What do you mean if my goal is realistic? Yes, but once I get accepted I will work harder than ever to get into ortho residency. I'm not sure why I'm getting such harsh feedback when I have about a 50% chance of acceptance, which is higher than the national average.

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

You're asking what your chances are. Statistically, you are unlikely to match ortho, even with an MD. Not trying to be harsh but realistic. I keep saying that its possible and what steps you need to pursue to make it happen. People who struggle in undergrad are more than a little likely to struggle in medical school. Maybe that's not you! But you have to prove it to the admissions committees. You are free to disregard my advice. I suspect you have less than a 50% chance, for MD this cycle, but I can't claim to know a more realistic figure. I told you to go for it a couple posts back. Just saying that in the arguable likelihood that you bust your ass for however many years and make it MD and don't end up matching ortho and picking another specialty instead, its possible to just go the DO route and end up in the same place a year or two earlier. Who knows what your future in medicine holds. All anyone in this thread has is options for you and you must decide your own fate.

How can you say I'm unlikely to match ortho when I'm not even in med school yet? Do residency programs look at UG? All I need is an acceptance and I know I can turn it around. There's very good reasons I believe for my low gpa.

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

Well logically, someone who is average in college would likely be average in med school. Maybe not. Without knowing the reasons for why you aren't 3.8+ now I have no reason to suspect that this will change in medical school. You did do alright on the MCAT, so who knows. Anyways you don't have to argue with me, I'm not the one deciding, we here giving free advice don't have a stake in your race. So good luck!

I had a lot of family problems that I was drug into between my parents this is what caused me to have a rough sophomore year. I also had high credit loads every semester. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to get an idea on my situation. Thanks for the help

 

[bonnie12]

OP,

Why not take a gap year and try to improve your chances at acceptance? Since you seem to be stuck on the idea of becoming an MD, you might have to improve your credentials. Assuming you are white, historically those with a 3.2-3.3 and a 30-32 MCAT have an acceptance rate of about 40% for MD schools.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[candbgirl]

I had a lot of family problems that I was drug into between my parents this is what caused me to have a rough sophomore year. I also had high credit loads every semester. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to get an idea on my situation. Thanks for the help

Most everyone in this thread has tried to give you an idea of what your current situation is. Unfortunately you haven't liked the answers so you have elected to keep asking until you get an answer you like. There isn't much more any of us can say. Only you can make the decisions. But I will say you claim to have the MSAR but you don't seem to have used it at all. Spend time going through and comparing the information and make your own list of schools to apply to. That for sure isn't our job and when you keep asking us to make your list you come off to me as being very lazy.

 

[shaner123]

Most everyone in this thread has tried to give you an idea of what your current situation is. Unfortunately you haven't liked the answers so you have elected to keep asking until you get an answer you like. There isn't much more any of us can say. Only you can make the decisions. But I will say you claim to have the MSAR but you don't seem to have used it at all. Spend time going through and comparing the information and make your own list of schools to apply to. That for sure isn't our job and when you keep asking us to make your list you come off to me as being very lazy.

No I'm asking for a list to determine what people think I should apply to. Notice that it was adcoms on here that I asked? I'm perfectly able of making my own list. In fact I already have one. I just wanted another persons idea for what to do. Thanks for your concern.

 

[WillburCobb]

I have about a 50% chance of acceptance, which is higher than the national average.

You have ~39% based on AAMC data from 2012 (as I posted previously). If anything this number has gone down slightly since then due to increased competition. So you are definitely below the national average. As someone who is only a tier above you in the table that data is from (54% v 39%) I can confirm that it is definitely an up-hill battle that is very taxing - which is one of the reasons everyone has been emphasizing either continue to work on your grades or do some actual research into DOs. Here's a start http://www.amazon.com/The-DOs-Osteopathic-Medicine-America/dp/0801878349

 

[shaner123]

Like I said before I'm really not interested in DO due to a residency position in ortho. All I need is one acceptance and I know I can get perfect grades in medical school. I planned on applying broadly this cycle (40 schools) and I would have to at least get a good chunk of interviews right?

 

[TXKnight]

Like I said before I'm really not interested in DO due to a residency position in ortho. All I need is one acceptance and I know I can get perfect grades in medical school. I planned on applying broadly this cycle (40 schools) and I would have to at least get a good chunk of interviews right?

PCOM and several other DO schools have very solid matches to both osteo and allo residencies. I invite you to browse DO match list 2014 at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/match-list-2014.1061344/
There are several ortho matches and many other solid ones too. If you are not too familiar with DO, you'll be surprised to see some of these lists. In any case, cheers man.

 

[WillburCobb]

Like I said before I'm really not interested in DO due to a residency position in ortho.

While more difficult going the DO route, its still reasonable and achiveable to match in ortho. You're fairly misinformed regarding DOs which is why we've suggested you do some more research.

I planned on applying broadly this cycle (40 schools) and I would have to at least get a good chunk of interviews right?

The stats and anecdotal evidence strongly says otherwise. Also, applying to that many schools in your current case is quick way to throw a lot of money down the drain.

 

[shaner123]

While more difficult going the DO route, its still reasonable and achiveable to match in ortho. You're fairly misinformed regarding DOs which is why we've suggested you do some more research.




The stats and anecdotal evidence strongly says otherwise. Also, applying to that many schools in your current case is quick way to throw a lot of money down the drain.

Well if I get an acceptance out of it then that's all that matters to me. I'll be happy to get into any school. I'm not applying to DO because I know I'm more than capable of getting into an MD school even if I have to send 40 apps. I would use the MSAR intelligently as well.

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

If I get accepted then what does it really matter?

 

[lmn]

Like I said before I'm really not interested in DO due to a residency position in ortho. All I need is one acceptance and I know I can get perfect grades in medical school. I planned on applying broadly this cycle (40 schools) and I would have to at least get a good chunk of interviews right?

I think you are grossly overestimating your competitiveness and how easy it is to get interviews. Nobody here is trying to be rude or crush your dreams because they are malicious, the fact of the matter is that your GPA is horrible for MD, your MCAT score alone is alright but nothing close to astonishing enough to show you're a strong student, and your EC's are ok but again nothing astonishing. Unfortunately it seems your application is very weak at points, to at best average in your strongest areas. I'm all for being optimistic, but I think you are really underestimating how strong the competition is and how huge of an abundance of strong applicants schools have to choose from. And even if you have a good explanation for your low gpa, your application will likely get screened or quickly discarded simply because there is very little evidence in your gpa or mcat showing that you are an outstanding student.

My recommendation would be for you to wait another year or two to apply, so you can boost your GPA with your senior year and hopefully find some excellent EC to get involved in that would really make your application stand out. Keep in mind that if you apply now, although there is always a chance to get in, if you don't get in, you will not only be wasting money, but also have to deal with the issues of being a reapplicant down the road. I really hope you take the recommendations in this thread into your considerations as you choose when to apply, I know the criticism isn't fun, but there is a lot of great knowledge and experience in this thread for you to draw upon.

 

[bearded frog]

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[shaner123]

I've been told by two adcoms that I would be a competitive applicant at their schools. This was at 2 different schools that are respectable but not upper tiers. If I get accepted I'm really not worried about $3000.

 

[bearded frog]

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[lmn]

I've been told by two adcoms that I would be a competitive applicant at their schools. This was at 2 different schools that are respectable but not upper tiers. If I get accepted I'm really not worried about $3000.

You already seem to have decided that you want to apply this cycle. Since you seem dead set on it, get to work on your school list and PS/application and apply as early as possible for your best shot, best of luck!

 

[shaner123]

Good luck then! Seriously, let us know how it goes, there are lots of other applicants on these forums with similar stats and it would help them out a lot if you posted what worked for you and where.

Definitely will do. These schools are third tier schools but the adcoms said I would have a chance and they review holistically. All it takes is one acceptance and it starts over and I will work harder than I have ever did once I'm accepted.

 

[shaner123]

You already seem to have decided that you want to apply this cycle. Since you seem dead set on it, get to work on your school list and PS/application and apply as early as possible for your best shot, best of luck!

Yes I am going to go forward with my luck this cycle and see what happens. How do I talk about the GPA in the personal statement! Thanks!

 

[Goro]

That number has to be taken with a huge bag of NaCl. Look at the acceptance rates of individual schools and they're in the 1-5% range. people who are accepted with those types of stats are either legacies or from the sourth or midwestern schools which skew the numebrs downward.

You have ~39% based on AAMC data from 2012 (as I posted previously). If anything this number has gone down slightly since then due to increased competition. So you are definitely below the national average. As someone who is only a tier above you in the table that data is from (54% v 39%)


OP's statement here is a classic example of magic thinking.

All I need is one acceptance and I know I can get perfect grades in medical school.

 

[shaner123]

That number has to be taken with a huge bag of NaCl. Look at the acceptance rates of individual schools and they're in the 1-5% range. people who are accepted with those types of stats are either legacies or from the sourth or midwestern schools which skew the numebrs downward.

You have ~39% based on AAMC data from 2012 (as I posted previously). If anything this number has gone down slightly since then due to increased competition. So you are definitely below the national average. As someone who is only a tier above you in the table that data is from (54% v 39%)


OP's statement here is a classic example of magic thinking.

All I need is one acceptance and I know I can get perfect grades in medical school.

So is what you're saying I have no chance at being accepted anywhere?

 

[Goro]

For MD schools? Aside from TCMC, very little chance. Zero at the NYC schools. Albany and NYMC? Possible.

So is what you're saying I have no chance at being accepted anywhere?

 

[shaner123]

For MD schools? Aside from TCMC, very little chance. Zero at the NYC schools. Albany and NYMC? Possible.

What can I do to improve my chances at TCMC? Outside of a gap year what can I do in the next 2 months to make it a better chance with NYMC and Albany?

 

[WillburCobb]

Outside of a gap year what can I do in the next 2 months to make it a better chance with NYMC and Albany?

Cure cancer or HIV/AIDS or bribe the registrar to fix your transcript. But srsly, aside from GPA repair there is very little you can do, especially in that little of time.

 

[shaner123]

Cure cancer or HIV/AIDS or bribe the registrar to fix your transcript.

I posted for actual advice. I regret even posting here since I haven't received advice anyway. I said I was not going to do DO and everyone says to.

 

[WillburCobb]

I regret even posting here since I haven't received advice anyway.

You were given two pages of solid advice from people who have been through the process, both successfully and unsuccessfully (and some who also had to overcome GPA issues...), as well as adcom members. However you've chosen to ignore what's been posted because it's not what you want to hear. You don't wanna go DO? Fine, but that means you have to put in the time and effort to fix your GPA and show that you can handle the delayed gratification that comes with medicine.

 

[shaner123]

You were given two pages of solid advice from people who have been through the process, both successfully and unsuccessfully (and some who also had to overcome GPA issues...), as well as adcom members. However you've chosen to ignore what's been posted because it's not what you want to hear. You don't wanna go DO? Fine, but that means you have to put in the time and effort to fix your GPA and show that you can handle the delayed gratification that comes with medicine.

Other than what the two adcom members said (which is the only advice that matters to me) no one has said anything except think DO. I've been told my adcom members as well as students at different med schools who all think I have a chance at them. Again I don't care about the school name or location. As long as I get an acceptance that's all that matters. I fully regret posting on here.

 

[Launcelot]

I posted for actual advice. I regret even posting here since I haven't received advice anyway. I said I was not going to do DO and everyone says to.

Don't go DO if you don't want to. You should definitely stand your ground against those recommendations--no one wants to see a self-hating doc (MD or DO)... especially over those two letters after your name.

On a serious note, I wouldn't want you as my partner if you'd be rolling your eyes at the professor all day long during OMM classes.

Look, I had the same exact stats as you (and URM to boot), threw just as much money as you think you will just this past application cycle (think >35 schools), and had just as much success as everyone said you will get with those stats (which is practically none at all with MD schools [the exception being SMPs and Post-Baccs, they really shown me a lot of love!]).

What's the rush? I wasted my time and money and I will now apply as a reapp because of my ill-fated, half-baked attempt at applying right out of college. Do the smart thing, do the right thing, and get those grades up to at least 3.4-3.5. Do a DIY or formal Post-Bacc or an SMP instead if you're all too happy to jump into the medical school curriculum already. (But if you haven't applied to any yet, you're probably going to have to wait a while as most of the applications have closed)

Keep the MCAT, with an average std. dev. of 3, your MCAT can be considered just as good as a 34.

One more year won't kill you. Some people wait until 35-40 years old until they finally get it together for a career in medicine. You're probably already ahead of the curve, especially because you've found SDN.

 

[Launcelot]

Other than what the two adcom members said (which is the only advice that matters to me) no one has said anything except think DO. I've been told my adcom members as well as students at different med schools who all think I have a chance at them. Again I don't care about the school name or location. As long as I get an acceptance that's all that matters. I fully regret posting on here.

Again, please do not go DO.

All of the people that I've talked to (adcoms, current medical school students) told me that I had a fighting chance at medical school. But the truth was that the only people that were ever close to being right about my chances were the people posting here at SDN, because we are raw when it comes to opinions. I wasted almost 5,000 dollars and became a reapp because of it. I am a URM and have way more ECs than you. Take it from someone who's been there, don't apply yet, but do apply MD only (personally, I think both are wonderful and I'd take a DO over MD in some cases). Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[shaner123]

My chances as people had said is around 40%. For this process that's not bad considering that's right at the national average. I have said about 5 times through these pages that I have talked to adcom members at schools as well as students and my pre med adviser who said I have a chance this cycle. I'm a disadvantaged applicant which isn't the same as URM but I know it carries some weight. And the slim chance I don't get in after applying to 40 schools, I have a back up plan for the gap year before I would reapply.

 

[shaner123]

Again, please do not go DO.

All of the people that I've talked to (adcoms, current medical school students) told me that I had a fighting chance at medical school. But the truth was that the only people that were ever close to being right about my chances were the people posting here at SDN, because we are raw when it comes to opinions. I wasted almost 5,000 dollars and became a reapp because of it. I am a URM and have way more ECs than you. Take it from someone who's been there, don't apply yet, but do apply MD only (personally, I think both are wonderful and I'd take a DO over MD in some cases). Slow and steady wins the race.

Where did you apply?

 

[Launcelot]

Where did you apply?

Every bottom tier MD (~35 schools, too many to lists but know they were all SDN favorites) and mid to higher tier DO (~8). I got only two interviews from DOs (1 in CA, 1 in NV) and I was done. I completely over estimated my attractiveness to adcoms, my (our) gpa killed me before I even got started on MD interviews, not to mention most DO schools too.

 

[Goro]

This

Cure cancer or HIV/AIDS or bribe the registrar to fix your transcript. But srsly, aside from GPA repair there is very little you can do, especially in that little of time.

 

[shaner123]

Every bottom tier MD (~35 schools, too many to lists but know they were all SDN favorites) and mid to higher tier DO (~8). I got only two interviews from DOs (1 in CA, 1 in NV) and I was done. I completely over estimated my attractiveness to adcoms, my (our) gpa killed me before I even got started on MD interviews, not to mention most DO schools too.

Well I shouldn't have even posted here since I'm going to just apply anyway. Thanks for the advice but I'll talk to you in October when there first acceptances are sent out.