Need some advice on what to do. Please help.

[Ilovelamp]

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[Droopy Snoopy]

Hello,
So I am in a dilemma. Thanks to some bad advice and my own brand of stupidity I applied to about 20 some programs in a field I was interested in and about 20 some programs in a back up. I ended up matching in my backup into a 4 year categorical residency with a 1 year Transitional year program. I am contemplating retrying for the primary field. I've already picked up two research projects, both of which I can get abstracts out by June. So my question is should I reapply or should I try to keep it down low and try to get something outside of the match. I know I'm going to be putting the PGY 2 PD in a tough position, but its a big program and I think they would be able to handle it without me.
So what should I do?
Thank you for any advice.

So you're asking if we think you should violate your match contract?

 

[gutonc]

So you're asking if we think you should violate your match contract?

Yes, s/he is. And the answer should be obvious.

 

[turquoiseblue]

Hello,
So I am in a dilemma. Thanks to some bad advice and my own brand of stupidity I applied to about 20 some programs in a field I was interested in and about 20 some programs in a back up. I ended up matching in my backup into a 4 year categorical residency with a 1 year Transitional year program. I am contemplating retrying for the primary field. I've already picked up two research projects, both of which I can get abstracts out by June. So my question is should I reapply or should I try to keep it down low and try to get something outside of the match. I know I'm going to be putting the PGY 2 PD in a tough position, but its a big program and I think they would be able to handle it without me.
So what should I do?
Thank you for any advice.

i would bet anything this happens all the time. do a search on this dilemma and see what you find. i am sure you can talk to your PD before going and let him know you are unhappy and intend to switch. but make sure you have a program to go to before you do this, so you have somewhere to go.

another option is to try residentswap.org and see if you can swap positions with someone. im not sure how it works or if it works, but may be worth a try.

 

[smq123]

So I am in a dilemma. Thanks to some bad advice and my own brand of stupidity I applied to about 20 some programs in a field I was interested in and about 20 some programs in a back up. I ended up matching in my backup into a 4 year categorical residency with a 1 year Transitional year program. I am contemplating retrying for the primary field. I've already picked up two research projects, both of which I can get abstracts out by June. So my question is should I reapply or should I try to keep it down low and try to get something outside of the match. I know I'm going to be putting the PGY 2 PD in a tough position, but its a big program and I think they would be able to handle it without me.

i would bet anything this happens all the time. do a search on this dilemma and see what you find. i am sure you can talk to your PD before going and let him know you are unhappy and intend to switch. but make sure you have a program to go to before you do this, so you have somewhere to go.

TurquoiseBlue - you've missed the point of what Tic and gutonc were saying.

Advising the OP to just walk away from his/her advanced position is a Match contract violation. When the OP went through the NRMP for the match, he/she agreed that they would show up for work wherever they matched. They MUST show up for at least the first day of their PGY-2 year at this advanced program, or else they will be in violation of the NRMP agreement and may be barred from the Match forever.

That, and it is a REALLY unprofessional, crappy, and inconsiderate maneuver to pull.

OP - you can try talking to your future PD and ask to be let out of your contract. They will likely be extremely displeased, and you run the risk of having the story of your lack-of-professionalism run through the PD grapevine, but if you are really unhappy at the thought of being in this specialty, I guess it's worth a try. Keep in mind, though, if you don't find another spot in your desired specialty, you'll either be kicking yourself, HARD, or trying to beg your way back in to the spot that you gave up. Neither of these options are particularly attractive.

 

[turquoiseblue]

TurquoiseBlue - you've missed the point of what Tic and gutonc were saying.

Advising the OP to just walk away from his/her advanced position is a Match contract violation. When the OP went through the NRMP for the match, he/she agreed that they would show up for work wherever they matched. They MUST show up for at least the first day of their PGY-2 year at this advanced program, or else they will be in violation of the NRMP agreement and may be barred from the Match forever.

That, and it is a REALLY unprofessional, crappy, and inconsiderate maneuver to pull.

OP - you can try talking to your future PD and ask to be let out of your contract. They will likely be extremely displeased, and you run the risk of having the story of your lack-of-professionalism run through the PD grapevine, but if you are really unhappy at the thought of being in this specialty, I guess it's worth a try. Keep in mind, though, if you don't find another spot in your desired specialty, you'll either be kicking yourself, HARD, or trying to beg your way back in to the spot that you gave up. Neither of these options are particularly attractive.

I just said this and you're saying the same thing--to talk to the PD. so why is it that when i say it it is unprofessional, etc. what ever.

 

[smq123]

I just said this and you're saying the same thing--to talk to the PD. so why is it that when i say it it is unprofessional, etc. what ever.

I'm saying that it should be something done as a last resort. It's a possibility, but to do so would create a lot of problems. Like I said, suggesting to a PD that, hey, I don't want to join your program as a PGY-2 is a) unprofessional, b) likely to create more problems than it would solve, and c) could open you up to accusations that you're violating your match contract.

All in all, it's not a move to be undertaken lightly. I think that saying "Oh, this probably happens all the time" is disingenuous, and could mislead the OP into thinking that it's not a big deal.

 

[turquoiseblue]

I'm saying that it should be something done as a last resort. It's a possibility, but to do so would create a lot of problems. Like I said, suggesting to a PD that, hey, I don't want to join your program as a PGY-2 is a) unprofessional, b) likely to create more problems than it would solve, and c) could open you up to accusations that you're violating your match contract.

All in all, it's not a move to be undertaken lightly. I think that saying "Oh, this probably happens all the time" is disingenuous, and could mislead the OP into thinking that it's not a big deal.

people match all the time and if you read these forums many want to switch out or swap. and many have done that successfully. it is not unheard of. i don't see the nrmp going after any one of them for that, although there is always that possibility.

 

[Law2Doc]

people match all the time and if you read these forums many want to switch out or swap. and many have done that successfully. it is not unheard of. i don't see the nrmp going after any one of them for that, although there is always that possibility.

Using phrases like "happens all the time", "many have done that successfully", etc when talking about a breach of contract and questionable professional conduct, which in fact most people don't risk, sends the wrong message. The OP will have to be jackpot lucky to (1) have the PGY2 PD to be willing to let them out of their contract without repurcussions, (2) be able to find a better position outside of the match in their desired field. It's an improbable, uphill battle. They are throwing away a bird in the hand --Most wouldn't go this route.

Turquoiseblue, while your insight is perhaps pertinent in the threads dealing with folks having difficulty in and scrambling for residencies, I'm not sure your track record qualifies you as the one to advise someone looking to actually make the right decisions that will allow them to get through residency and practice. This thread is a good case in point -- I think you have to actually get further than multiple false starts before you are qualified to advise folks that making a false start is no biggee.

 

[turquoiseblue]

then tell me how do all these other people that want to get out of their contracts and switch to another residency do so without the nrmp ever going after them?

e.g.:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=806049
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/03/switching-specialties/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=481329
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-234873.html

also, i don't need to have a perfect track record to give advice, and i think you all saying im wrong are absolutely wrong about all this and jsut want a chance to chide me for no reason. if med students and prehealth are allowed to give me their faulty naieve advice, i should be allowed to give advice too.

 

[Law2Doc]

then tell me how do all these other people that want to get out of their contracts and switch to another residency do so without the nrmp ever going after them?

I'm saying there aren't a lot of them. And in some cases they are making bad career decisions and walking a very dangerous course. It's sort of like talking about all the people who jump out of moving cars and survive. There aren't a lot of people who do this, certainly some survive and live happy lives, but that doesn't make it a good idea for any.

 

[smq123]

then tell me how do all these other people that want to get out of their contracts and switch to another residency do so without the nrmp ever going after them?

If you read these threads, you will see that they are VERY different scenarios than what you are suggesting that the OP do. None of them are really applicable to the OP's situation:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=806049

The person in this thread is asking IF he/she can switch after the first year of this categorical residency. In other words, that person clearly intends to show up, HONOR THE MATCH CONTRACT, and then possibly switch out after one year. This is very different from not showing up to honor the first year of your advanced position, as the OP was asking about.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/03/switching-specialties/

Again, BOTH of those people honored their contract. The person who switched out of anesthesia completed their intern year, and then showed up to their anesthesia program to begin their PGY-2 year. However, a few months into their first year of anesthesia (CA-1 = PGY-2), they switched out. This is not a match violation.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=481329

People who scramble into their positions are not bound by the NRMP contract, because they didn't match into it. They're considered people who entered that position outside of the Match. That's different.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-234873.html

Again, that person was a categorical intern who, a few months AFTER honoring their Match contract, wanted to switch out. Again, this is different from the scenario mentioned in the OP.

Please, do not give sketchy advice to people. Encouraging the OP to come close to violating their Match contract with their advanced position program is unfair.

OP: Read these words of wisdom from an actual program director:

This is terrible advice, mainly because you can't swap a match. The match is binding. If you didn't want to go to this program, you shouldn't have ranked it. You then would have had a chance of going to something that was lower on your rank list. If there was nothing lower on your list that you would rather have, then you got the best spot possible. Had you not ranked this program nor the ones below it, you would have matched into nothing and been in the scramble. The chance of getting something better in the scramble is not great.

Chances are you'll be very happy at your matched program. Best advice is to go in with a good attitude and see what happens.

 

[MrBurns10]

It is always a violation not to honor your PGY-1 contract, but whether or not it's a violation to not show up to your PGY-2 (advanced) program depends on the circumstances. Show up to your TY and complete the year. Then, during the year, request an NRMP waiver so you can reapply in the match to your originally desired field. Since you would be switching fields, not showing up to your original PGY-2 program would not be a match violation.

I am almost certain things worse this way, but someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I just reread your predicament and think I understand it better now. Since it's the same program and I take it you matched once (since it's a categorical joined residency), it's not a big deal if you don't continue on after the TY. However, again, you would have to at least show up for your intern year.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I appreciate the quote above, but as Mr Burns points out, the situation here is different.

If the OP decides to not apply to the same advanced field, they can request a waiver and it will automatically be granted, as long as they apply before January of their PGY-1. There are several caveats:

1. You can't then apply to programs in that same field (at least not for the concurrent year), and perhaps more importantly...
2. You can't actually search for a new spot before resigning your old spot. At least you're not supposed to.

So, basically you can request a match waiver, and then go looking for a new spot. of course, if you applied to 20 programs in your chosen field and didn't match, there is some chance that you won't match. Or, perhaps you just got unlucky. Or didn't rank all of them.

In any case, this is a completely different situation than a PGY-1 match, and the OP can easily get out of their PGY-2 match by requesting a waiver. Whether they should do so or not depends on their own situation.

 

[smq123]

In any case, this is a completely different situation than a PGY-1 match, and the OP can easily get out of their PGY-2 match by requesting a waiver. Whether they should do so or not depends on their own situation.

I see. I stand corrected.

 

[Ilovelamp]

Oh wow. I'm so sorry for starting an inflammatory thread. But thank you for all the advise and my apologies again. I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings.

And to the mods, could you please delete this thread? I did not want to troll anyone.
Thank you.

 

[Buzz Me]

Thanks to some bad advice and my own brand of stupidity I applied to about 20 some programs in a field I was interested in and about 20 some programs in a back up. I ended up matching in my backup into a 4 year categorical residency with a 1 year Transitional year program.

What field did you apply to, and what was your backup?