Need some direction...

[mahnster13]

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So, for a while I kind of gave up on medical school because I did not believe that I had realistic chances of getting in. However, I know that I have the intelligence, it was just the hard work part that was getting me. That's different now, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to achieve this goal of mine.

I am a senior at the University of Washington in Seattle, and I will be graduating in the spring with my degree in History. My GPA as it stands is at a 3.11, and in my GPA in my major is 3.44. I have looked and looked, and there is NOTHING I would rather do than be a doctor. Here's the thing, I work at Target, as I have for the last four years, working between 30-40 hours a week to pay for my undergad at UW.

I want to go back after I graduate and do my post-bacc. I don't know whether this entails getting a whole new bachelor's degree as well or just doing the classes I need to apply for medical school. Basically, I would retake the first two quarters of chemistry and finish with the third quarter, retake physics as the physics without calc, take the biology sequence and obviously take organic chem somewhere in there. I know I need to do that. I also know I NEED to get some letters of recommendation, and I NEED to get some volunteer experience to put in my application.

Now, should I try to do my post-bacc at UW as well? Or can I go somewhere else like Western Washington University and be just fine? The main schools I think I want to apply to for medical school are the University of Washington, Ohio State, Oregon Health and Sciences, University of Texas, and maybe Colorado, but I'll figure that out later.

I know that it's not too late because I see people getting into medical school pretty late in their lives, but I don't know if it is possible given my situation. My GPA is low, I have zero clinical volunteer experience, and I don't have any letters of recommendation because I have to leave for work as soon as I am done on campus. Oh, and I commute 35 miles to school from Lake Stevens, Washington.

Does anybody have any advice?

 

[Deekle]

I hope you really, really want to go to medical school more than you've ever wanted anything else in your life.

Seriously, it's easy to romanticize the job, the money, the "prestige" and all that. What you don't realize is that you've never done anything even remotely close to the amount of work you're going to have to do to get into medical school with what you've told us. If you did get in, you'd have to work even harder.

So, first...the bad news. If you think you're going to get into any of those schools with your GPA and your lack of anything related to science, think again. You've got to do some significant GPA and image repair. In all honesty, you're talking years at this point.

The good news:

It's possible. You can do a postbac at UW or another 4yr, it shouldn't make too much difference. You'll also want to take some upper level science courses if you want to be taken seriously. A formal postbacc is probably your best option. If you get a 4.0 on all your prereqs, you should be able to bring the GPA up to about 3.3ish and keep that sGPA super high. It'll be rough. I hope you have a good math background. If not, you'll probably want to consider doing some remedial math first. (College Algebra, Trig and Precalc). While you're working on that, you need to work on your extracurriculars. Get some shadowing time and some volunteer stuff under your belt. While you're taking the prereqs you want to focus on developing good relationships with the science faculty. The best LOR's come from folks who know you well. You've got a couple of years to get to know them. Stop by and chitchat every now and again. Do some research with them if you can. The more they know and like you, the better LOR you're going to get.

You need a good MCAT score. Your goal should be 35+. 'Nuff said about that.

Lastly, you need to wrap your head around the fact that you're going to have to apply to a lot more schools to have a shot, and you're going to want to apply to DO schools too. Your GPA at this point is too low to have good odds at an MD school. You mentioned retakes on physics, some DO schools do grade replacement, so that will help you. You're going to be playing an odds game and every school you apply to that's technically within your "range" of GPA/MCAT increases your odds of getting an interview.

Again, do some deep thinking. There's a lot of other things out there in this world that are a whole lot of fun for a lot less work. If you fight as hard as you're going to need to to get in and stay in, it'd suck really bad to find out you hated it.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Take all the prerequisite classes for medical school and an extra six credits of upper-division science classes (they're a requirement for lots of DO schools). Start retaking all the classes you got bad grades in until your GPA with grade replacement is more like a 3.4, and then apply almost exclusively to DO schools. Most of the state schools you mentioned only take 10-20% of their students from out of state, so competition for those few spots is fierce. To have a realistic chance at MD schools you'll need to bring your GPA up to about 3.5, and that will take over three years of full time college. There are good DO schools in all the states you mentioned, and they will be a much better option for you.

 

[mahnster13]

Thank you both for your insight. I'm definitely thinking now that DO schools are a good option. I don't care which set of initials comes after my name. I wouldn't mind going Canadian either and practicing there, but that's something I'm going to have to look into more. It's my understanding that DO's do grade replacement for classes you retake, is that true?

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[docelh]

I have looked and looked, and there is NOTHING I would rather do than be a doctor. Here's the thing, I work at Target, as I have for the last four years, working between 30-40 hours a week to pay for my undergad at UW.

This is where I think a lot of people screw up badly in this process. Because premed is so demanding, it's unwise to invest so much of your time and energy into a minimum-wage job. I know you're thinking you had no choice, but cutting expenses and taking out more loans would have been a sensible option. If you have to work, don't do more than 15 hrs or so. Most people don't have the stamina to endure that and ace their academic workload. But even if you had the exceptional intelligence and energy to ace your premed courses and other courses, you would not have had the energy to cover the medically-related ECs.

If you think about it, doing a job isn't just the hours you clock in. It's also the time it takes to get there and home, the opportunity cost of scheduling your studying around it, and the after effects of needing a beer or pong to unwind from a day's work. So in effect, that 30 - 40 workweek is more than 40 hours of your time... easy.

The only time you should be putting 30 - 40 hrs a week for a job is if that job is like an internship into your desired career, or the field you want doesn't care so much about GPA.

Now, the key question becomes whether you want to invest the years it will take to repair this GPA. And in doing so, can you make it work while not getting depleted by a full-time retail job.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Thank you both for your insight. I'm definitely thinking now that DO schools are a good option. I don't care which set of initials comes after my name. I wouldn't mind going Canadian either and practicing there, but that's something I'm going to have to look into more. It's my understanding that DO's do grade replacement for classes you retake, is that true?

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Forget about Canadian schools. They're very difficult to get into if you're not from Canada. DO schools will take replacement grades if the class is at least as many credits and the same level or higher. You can replace an F in a 3 credit class with a new grade in a 3 or 4 credit statistics class, but you can't replace a grade in a 4 credit class with a 3 credit one. Of course if you retake the exact same class at UW it will qualify.

 

[mahnster13]

Again, thank you all for your input. I am ready to do this right this time. I think I want to do my post-bacc at Western Washington University, I might just go for a second bachelor's in biology or chemistry this time. How hard is it to FIND those loans to cover tuition, apartment, etc. while in school? I don't think Bellingham is a particularly expensive place to live, but still.

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