cyanide12345678

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2 years ago when i signed up with Team health, i negotiated strongly, increased my hourly by $30/hr from their original offer and threw in a clause for full schedule flexibility. Market was great at that time.

How much negotiation is possible with a university academic program? Has anyone here ever been able to negotiate with a university for an academic job? When team health used to say "everyone gets paid the same", i never believed it. But now, i actually believe when the University program says everyone gets the same contract.

I'm guessing the only things negotiable are a sign on, relocation, and maybe some schedule flexibility?

For the folks employed by University programs, did you guys just take what they offered?
 

p1acebo

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2 years ago when i signed up with Team health, i negotiated strongly, increased my hourly by $30/hr from their original offer and threw in a clause for full schedule flexibility. Market was great at that time.

How much negotiation is possible with a university academic program? Has anyone here ever been able to negotiate with a university for an academic job? When team health used to say "everyone gets paid the same", i never believed it. But now, i actually believe when the University program says everyone gets the same contract.

I'm guessing the only things negotiable are a sign on, relocation, and maybe some schedule flexibility?

For the folks employed by University programs, did you guys just take what they offered?

There was a thread about this awhile ago. Usually absolute pay is non negotiable. The contracts are very “take it or leave it.”

As you alluded to though, it’s possible to get relocation funds, sign on bonus (not likely), etc. I think the biggest thing one could do is possible negotiate for protected time if you can offer some sort of niche (research, sim, etc).
 
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gutonc

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Yeah, I hire for an academic (non-EM) department and, unless we’re talking about an endowed chair or a high level administrative position (which is me), the base salary isn’t negotiable. We also have a (stupid) cap on non-salary compensation of 10% of the base salary for things like signing and relocation bonus.

So when I make an offer, I use the same stock moving/signing bonus offer that comes in around 4-5% and let them bargain up.
I think PTO and CME are relatively easy asks in this setting and have coached some people (offline) to go this route. Since I do have final say over who gets offered a job, just not the final dollar amounts in each category.
 
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Curious are there still academic jobs out there these days (either core or clinical faculty)? It seems like the big universities were hard hit during covid and a bunch have gone on hiring freezes.

I know our place isn’t really hiring new full timers.
 

cyanide12345678

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Yeah, I hire for an academic (non-EM) department and, unless we’re talking about an endowed chair or a high level administrative position (which is me), the base salary isn’t negotiable. We also have a (stupid) cap on non-salary compensation of 10% of the base salary for things like signing and relocation bonus.

So when I make an offer, I use the same stock moving/signing bonus offer that comes in around 4-5% and let them bargain up.
I think PTO and CME are relatively easy asks in this setting and have coached some people (offline) to go this route. Since I do have final say over who gets offered a job, just not the final dollar amounts in each category.

That's interesting how you are sending a 5% sign on knowing you can double it, if needed. Good to know that there's some wiggle room for sign ons at some institutes. Thank you
 

cyanide12345678

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Curious are there still academic jobs out there these days (either core or clinical faculty)? It seems like the big universities were hard hit during covid and a bunch have gone on hiring freezes.

I know our place isn’t really hiring new full timers.

Yes. Depends on where. Plenty of residencies popping up all the time anyway that needs core faculty. My job offer isn't for core faculty, it's clinical faculty at one of their community shops, not their big level 1 center. The community shop mostly has non ER residents and med students rotate. But yes, depending on location there are still a couple of options
 
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gutonc

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That's interesting how you are sending a 5% sign on knowing you can double it, if needed. Good to know that there's some wiggle room for sign ons at some institutes. Thank you
It's more frustrating than interesting, but in an academic setting, I'm stuck with what I can offer.
 
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TheComebacKid

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I just signed on for a core faculty position at an academic place for next year. There are jobs out there, even in the most desirable of cities (I was fortunate to interview for several). Not saying this to brag. I'm a very average applicant with fellowship training, but again, the doom and gloom picture that's being painted on this forum is somewhat inaccurate. That being said, I'm sure 10 years ago, I would have gotten paid way more. And the sexy community jobs are definitely harder to find. That being said, yes, certain shops definitely were on hiring freezes.

From my experience, absolutely zero wiggle room on base pay. These numbers are set primarily by the medical school/dean's office etc. Your department chair isn't going to be able to help you there.

Be very specific about buy down, CME, relocation costs, etc.

Academic groups have tremendous amounts of stability. There are funds that bail out departments that exist within the hospital/medical school etc. I don't know of any single academic doc that got laid off during COVID and left out to dry like at Team Health. Yeah, several places stopped employer sponsored 401k matching, and other big perks, but overall, the benefit that comes with less pay is better job security.
 

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