Nervous/scared feeling about being bitten or injured on the job

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
See my answers in green, above. Drugs are your friend.

Thanks calliope. What kind of drugs do you send home that the owner uses to sedate? Do they come in loopy or are they completely out? In your experience, are owners usually forthright with information about the aggressiveness of their animals?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Sometimes you need to use certain tools.

Things that can help with super aggressive animals - sometimes they are better or worse with their owners. I had one dog that was a demon when his owners were gone (like lunging at people if ever taken to the back) but did great when in the same room as the owner.

Gauze muzzles - you can use roll gauze to make a long muzzle to keep hands out of harms way - this quick muzzle will allow a 2nd muzzle to be placed after with minimal risk

rabies pole

cat grabbing clamshell.

If I know a cat is fractious, I try to pre-sedate (gabapentin or similar to the owner) and have them come in a mesh carrier - you can squeeze them down and inject through the mesh.

I've never heard of a gauze muzzle thats really cool.
 
I had one that the owner could muzzle/hold but was a nightmare if we attempted to do anything. So, did things with the owner, including sedating in the exam room because that is what worked best.

I had another that I couldn't even examine and had to vaccinate by trapping behind a door. Owner couldn't muzzle, recommended oral sedation for future visits.

You kind of have to adapt to the situation.

I've had dogs before that did much better with minimal restraint and others that don't. Often times being willing to change things up or to see if something different will work can improve the situation for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I've never heard of a gauze muzzle thats really cool.
You just do a simple half square know (like tying your shoe step 1) in a really loose loop. Then go over the muzzle and tighten. I usually then wrap it over the muzzle a couple times doing the half knot in between before placing the real muzzle. It's fairly easy to get off if needed but gives enough control to give chem restraint
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You just do a simple half square know (like tying your shoe step 1) in a really loose loop. Then go over the muzzle and tighten. I usually then wrap it over the muzzle a couple times doing the half knot in between before placing the real muzzle. It's fairly easy to get off if needed but gives enough control to give chem restraint
Do you tie behind the ears as well? If a dog paws, we often do that. (And it means you can untie by reaching behind it's head rather than to the jaw.)

I've only ever seen one too tight, but the dog had a broken nose (HBC) so there was less support to it's face than we thought.
 
not with a gauze muzzle. You can. But the entire point is to be able to get a real muzzle on
Right, but we've had 100 plus pound unhandled dogs that are lightning fast with their feet and will pull it off faster than we applied it, so we have had a tech either hold the ends until the real muzzle is on or tie it if the dog was a head thrasher and was bruising people as it fought restraint. (Quick leashes, instead of gauze are often the go to here so there is a bit of distance and support.)
(And yes, many of those same dogs were great when we weren't touching them, but in order to place a catheter or administer sedation, we had to touch them for at least 5-30 seconds with no bite risk)
 
Right, but we've had 100 plus pound unhandled dogs that are lightning fast with their feet and will pull it off faster than we applied it, so we have had a tech either hold the ends until the real muzzle is on or tie it if the dog was a head thrasher and was bruising people as it fought restraint. (Quick leashes, instead of gauze are often the go to here so there is a bit of distance and support.)
(And yes, many of those same dogs were great when we weren't touching them, but in order to place a catheter or administer sedation, we had to touch them for at least 5-30 seconds with no bite risk)
When I have utilized gauze muzzles the gauze was very very long. And I think it's more secure than a leash because the tie in a leash won't get as snug. If you know what you're doing they are SUPER effective. And trust me. *I* can be llightening fast once that's in place because I have to be.
 
When I have utilized gauze muzzles the gauze was very very long. And I think it's more secure than a leash because the tie in a leash won't get as snug. If you know what you're doing they are SUPER effective. And trust me. *I* can be llightening fast once that's in place because I have to be.
Me too. 11 year vet tech working in ER and high volume spay/neuter and volunteering for feral clinics for the last 5ish, until last May.

I was specifically talking about why we tie sometimes.

That and I guess I also was often with new staff and volunteers, and was almost always the go to for anything fast or scary. When you are basically doing it alone, I guess that is my other reason for a tie, so if my help panicked, I wasn't left with Kujo with a loose gauze muzzle.
 
Me too. 11 year vet tech working in ER and high volume spay/neuter and volunteering for feral clinics for the last 5ish, until last May.

I was specifically talking about why we tie sometimes.

That and I guess I also was often with new staff and volunteers, and was almost always the go to for anything fast or scary. When you are basically doing it alone, I guess that is my other reason for a tie, so if my help panicked, I wasn't left with Kujo with a loose gauze muzzle.
Cool. I was a licensed tech for 7 years and had a bit of emphasis on handling since I had a reconstructive sx from a dog attack when I was young. I applied to vet school with tens of thousands of hours. :laugh: I will anchor a dog. But for some reason I thought you were talking about using the leash as a muzzle and I was thinking that sounds like such a stupid idea.
 
Just keep in mind, there's no such thing as no bite risk. Says the person who has been bit through muzzles before. *hangs head*
I'm the tech that has taken a few bites (different times) to keep a doctor out of harms way. I always expected to be bit through a muzzle. Came close a few times, but haven't yet. My risks are lower now, since I only volunteer instead of having it be my 60 hour a week job, so maybe it won't ever happen, but no shame for you. It happens.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Cool. I was a licensed tech for 7 years and had a bit of emphasis on handling since I had a reconstructive sx from a dog attack when I was young. I applied to vet school with tens of thousands of hours. :laugh: I will anchor a dog. But for some reason I thought you were talking about using the leash as a muzzle and I was thinking that sounds like such a stupid idea.
We do sometimes use a quick leash. You look for a soft one with lots of flexibility, webbing, not rope and with an open ring. You can hook the jaw from high up with a wide open loop or lasso them if need be. Once the jaw is caught, you cinch tight, reverse direction on the ring and wrap a few times. Slip a real muzzle over and let it go. It often will get loose enough to remove even inside the muzzle.

Really, just for dogs you cannot touch at all and they lunge to bite when you get within 6 inches to a foot.
 
When I have utilized gauze muzzles the gauze was very very long. And I think it's more secure than a leash because the tie in a leash won't get as snug. If you know what you're doing they are SUPER effective. And trust me. *I* can be llightening fast once that's in place because I have to be.
this.

The gauze can be much longer than a leash. And that's why I tie around a few times. Usually, they can't get to it in time.
 
Cool. I was a licensed tech for 7 years and had a bit of emphasis on handling since I had a reconstructive sx from a dog attack when I was young. I applied to vet school with tens of thousands of hours. :laugh: I will anchor a dog. But for some reason I thought you were talking about using the leash as a muzzle and I was thinking that sounds like such a stupid idea.
And ow!
 
I'm the tech that has taken a few bites (different times) to keep a doctor out of harms way. I always expected to be bit through a muzzle. Came close a few times, but haven't yet. My risks are lower now, since I only volunteer instead of having it be my 60 hour a week job, so maybe it won't ever happen, but no shame for you. It happens.
I'm going to disagree with this. NO ONE should get bit. And it can be done. You think you're going to get bit through a muzzle? Then you add a big towel out blanket.

In the decade+ I have worked exclusively in vet med not a single one of my patients has bit anyone. Because you have to be smart about things. Can things STILL happen? I mean sure. But I can confidently say that the risk can be mitigatedto the point that the odds are very very very low. And yes. I've worked with HUGE aggressive dogs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
We do sometimes use a quick leash. You look for a soft one with lots of flexibility, webbing, not rope and with an open ring. You can hook the jaw from high up with a wide open loop or lasso them if need be. Once the jaw is caught, you cinch tight, reverse direction on the ring and wrap a few times. Slip a real muzzle over and let it go. It often will get loose enough to remove even inside the muzzle.

Really, just for dogs you cannot touch at all and they lunge to bite when you get within 6 inches to a foot.
Yeah I'll stick with my techniques I think lol. Haven't been bit yet! Just gotta keep it that way.
 
I'm going to disagree with this. NO ONE should get bit. And it can be done. You think you're going to get bit through a muzzle? Then you add a big towel out blanket.

In the decade+ I have worked exclusively in vet med not a single one of my patients has bit anyone. Because you have to be smart about things. Can things STILL happen? I mean sure. But I can confidently say that the risk can be mitigatedto the point that the odds are very very very low. And yes. I've worked with HUGE aggressive dogs.

Yeah the bite through the muzzle was after we were done, the dog was sitting, muzzle on, Dr passed the leash to me and dog decided to lunge forward at that moment and barely grabbed my thumb. Lost my nail because of where the dog bit down. It happens
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yeah the bite through the muzzle was after we were done, the dog was sitting, muzzle on, Dr passed the leash to me and dog decided to lunge forward at that moment and barely grabbed my thumb. Lost my nail because of where the dog bit down. It happens
No no I know it can. And I'm positive that I'll run into these things. But taking bites to spare someone else is what gave me pause.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think we need to teach students more behavior and how to recognize stuff too as a side note. I see classmates handling dogs sometimes and I'm like :eek: you gon get bit gurl
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I've been bitten twice by dogs. one was a dog that was showing no signs of aggression. But he was painful and I touched him the wrong way.

The other was a lunging chi/pug mix. Demon spawn. he lunged at my hand.

but both of those were nothing compared to the hamster bite from hell
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I've been bitten twice by dogs. one was a dog that was showing no signs of aggression. But he was painful and I touched him the wrong way.

The other was a lunging chi/pug mix. Demon spawn. he lunged at my hand.

but both of those were nothing compared to the hamster bite from hell
Lol sorry but I remember and it's not funny but it kind of is also
 
Been bit a few times (neurotic pittie, neurotic chihuahua, horses, birds), stepped on (horses), scratched (various critters). Stuff happens, comes with the profession.
 
Worst bite I ever got was my own damn fault. Two big adult rabbits were scuffling (we had adopted them together and were told they were friends.....NOPE) and I instinctively did the number one thing you are NOT supposed to do, and reached in to separate them. The bigger one sunk his teeth into my wrist and I literally dragged him away across the room by his teeth, screaming for someone to grab the other one.

I lost all feeling on the medial aspect of my wrist and my entire thumb for weeks; must have severed a nerve. Have a nice big scar too. Oof.
 
Worst bite I ever got was my own damn fault. Two big adult rabbits were scuffling (we had adopted them together and were told they were friends.....NOPE) and I instinctively did the number one thing you are NOT supposed to do, and reached in to separate them. The bigger one sunk his teeth into my wrist and I literally dragged him away across the room by his teeth, screaming for someone to grab the other one.

I lost all feeling on the medial aspect of my wrist and my entire thumb for weeks; must have severed a nerve. Have a nice big scar too. Oof.
Yikes. I'm not sure why that's our instinct lol. "Oh teeth are out and the situation is dangerous?! I'm gonna put my hands all up in there"
 
I had a cat bite when I very first started on vet med. That hurt because cats.

But my worst was when I was in high school. Sister's dog attacked my face. Had to have my mouth/lips reconstructed. And if I knew then what I know now I'd have read that dog better and not escalated him.
 
Just keep in mind, there's no such thing as no bite risk. Says the person who has been bit through muzzles before. *hangs head*

This.
Most recently: 140+lb dog. Had oral premed at home, was able to give IM drugs with minimal fuss.

Patient appeared fully anesthetized, flat out the floor. Owner for whatever reason took muzzle off. Patient came up and lunged from 4+ feet away as soon as I opened the door, dragged me into the room and to the ground by my upper arm. The scratches and bruises from the nails were probably just as bad as the punctures. I move fast and this dog still managed to move faster.

Moral of the story: don't assume you are safe just because a patient looks sedated. There is definitely no such thing as a no bite risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm going to disagree with this. NO ONE should get bit. And it can be done. You think you're going to get bit through a muzzle? Then you add a big towel out blanket.

In the decade+ I have worked exclusively in vet med not a single one of my patients has bit anyone. Because you have to be smart about things. Can things STILL happen? I mean sure. But I can confidently say that the risk can be mitigatedto the point that the odds are very very very low. And yes. I've worked with HUGE aggressive dogs.
Doctor was reaching around an aggressive cats face for a syringe top she dropped. My choice was to let her get bit because she didn't respond to the warning OR turn the cat's face back toward myself making my scruff hold weaker/less tight(?). The cat just barely got me with it's teeth, but that counts as a bite. I still got it back in it's kennel.

Second time, same doctor reaches for the face of a fractious cat to "help guide it into the kennel." I think she did it as a subconscious move. The cat moved to bite her and I twisted it's head away from her and toward myself.

In both cases. I was watching someone do something dumb. I chose not to let them pay for it. I did not create the situation, but I found a way to let her keep her fingers and for me to get very minor bites.

I have never let anyone else get hurt on my watch. I guess I wasn't willing to let stupidity or unconscious actions change that. That is why I have always been the one called in. I try not to let anybody get hurt, but if it has to be someone, it will be me, and it will be minimized.
 
Doctor was reaching around an aggressive cats face for a syringe top she dropped. My choice was to let her get bit because she didn't respond to the warning OR turn the cat's face back toward myself making my scruff hold weaker/less tight(?). The cat just barely got me with it's teeth, but that counts as a bite. I still got it back in it's kennel.

Second time, same doctor reaches for the face of a fractious cat to "help guide it into the kennel." I think she did it as a subconscious move. The cat moved to bite her and I twisted it's head away from her and toward myself.

In both cases. I was watching someone do something dumb. I chose not to let them pay for it. I did not create the situation, but I found a way to let her keep her fingers and for me to get very minor bites.

I have never let anyone else get hurt on my watch. I guess I wasn't willing to let stupidity or unconscious actions change that. That is why I have always been the one called in. I try not to let anybody get hurt, but if it has to be someone, it will be me, and it will be minimized.
Hmm
I suppose I'm just more vocal. I'll say don't do that, stop, please don't help me etc. And that works for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This.
Most recently: 140+lb dog. Had oral premed at home, was able to give IM drugs with minimal fuss.

Patient appeared fully anesthetized, flat out the floor. Owner for whatever reason took muzzle off. Patient came up and lunged from 4+ feet away as soon as I opened the door, dragged me into the room and to the ground by my upper arm. The scratches and bruises from the nails were probably just as bad as the punctures. I move fast and this dog still managed to move faster.

Moral of the story: don't assume you are safe just because a patient looks sedated. There is definitely no such thing as a no bite risk.
We had a HBC that broke a tech's thumb when she was checking vitals. The dog had been laid flat with minimal responses for at least 24 hours. Sweetest dog too once awake completely.
 
This.
Most recently: 140+lb dog. Had oral premed at home, was able to give IM drugs with minimal fuss.

Patient appeared fully anesthetized, flat out the floor. Owner for whatever reason took muzzle off. Patient came up and lunged from 4+ feet away as soon as I opened the door, dragged me into the room and to the ground by my upper arm. The scratches and bruises from the nails were probably just as bad as the punctures. I move fast and this dog still managed to move faster.

Moral of the story: don't assume you are safe just because a patient looks sedated. There is definitely no such thing as a no bite risk.
We had a HBC that broke a tech's thumb when she was checking vitals. The dog had been laid flat with minimal responses for at least 24 hours. Sweetest dog too once awake completely.
 
This.
Most recently: 140+lb dog. Had oral premed at home, was able to give IM drugs with minimal fuss.

Patient appeared fully anesthetized, flat out the floor. Owner for whatever reason took muzzle off. Patient came up and lunged from 4+ feet away as soon as I opened the door, dragged me into the room and to the ground by my upper arm. The scratches and bruises from the nails were probably just as bad as the punctures. I move fast and this dog still managed to move faster.

Moral of the story: don't assume you are safe just because a patient looks sedated. There is definitely no such thing as a no bite risk.
I agree! I never let my guard down!
 
I very much felt that way when I started, and for me it got much easier when I gained confidence just through exposure and practice. The first 30 cats who screamed bloody murder scared the crap out of me...now I'm much more "yeah yeah you're gonna kill me, I get it."

What also helped was working with wildlife. I'm now much more afraid of raccoons than cats. ;)

For extremely fractious cats I pretty much have my routine down: have everything set up for whatever we're doing, have a minimum of two thick towels, snap collar or muzzle, go into a closed quiet room, and get 'er done. Once you manage to do a few dozen it becomes a necessary evil instead of something I dread.

Similarly for dogs I've gotten much more comfortable handling them and judging their behavior. It's also important to manage your surroundings--the only time a cat bit me (through the towel so a nasty bruise instead of a puncture) was when the noise level on the room was high and the cat was getting increasingly more frantic. Now I politely ask people to shut up if there's too much noise and it affects my patient. ;)

So in summary it took about two years for me to be comfortable in most situations but the fear does gradually get replaced with comfort as you get better at handling and overall have more positive experiences.

The head of the rehab centre got her finger bitten off by a raccoon while preparing for a release. I definitely got scarred by that one. Makes me want to always use those leather gloves :)
 
Hmm
I suppose I'm just more vocal. I'll say don't do that, stop, please don't help me etc. And that works for me.
Doctor who thought she was immune to bites, wasn't paying attention. I was vocal. It also all happened in less than a second.

She really did seem to forget she could get bit or scratched after working with several good techs for a few years. She worked with a new tech and some volunteers 2 weekends in a row and the little things she kept doing actually got her scratched and bit. She went back to only using the more experienced techs for anything even slightly fidgety for a good while after that and seemed to pay more attention to the animal's cues again.

Again, dumb move. I don't think she even realized "This cat has already bit 2 techs. We called in this one. Gave it vaccines. Oops dropped my syringe cap, better get it before somebody gets poked. Oh look, LotF has a death grip on that cats scruff and the cap is about one inch away from it's open and snapping jaws. Wonder what will happen if I put my hand here?"

She ignored all that (and yes the cat had already bit 2 other techs before I came back from lunch and got sent in to catch it) and me saying "Don't! Back up!" Dumb move. She didn't pay for it though. I felt like I won because that cat had nearly taken a finger off another tech and wrapped it's jaw 3/4 of the way around a bigger techs forearm (big cat) and I came away with 1 barely puncture and a scratch from another tooth. I shouldn't have been put in the situation, but I did the best with it that could have been done.

I don't like anybody getting hurt, so I have already over analyzed the set up so many times trying to see if there was something different I could have done. Beyond changing the situation entirely... I am reasonably certain that nearly every other move I could have come up with would have caused someone much greater damage.

I like the rule: Nobody gets bit ever. I just also know that sometimes you are screwed because rules are made to be broken.
 
Thanks calliope. What kind of drugs do you send home that the owner uses to sedate? Do they come in loopy or are they completely out? In your experience, are owners usually forthright with information about the aggressiveness of their animals?

There are multiple drug options - trazadone, gabapentin, aprazolam, even acepromazine -- different animals will respond differently, and sometimes it takes a few tries to get the ideal level and type of sedation. Usually you just want them loopy and chill, but still walking and reacting to things around them (but reacting calmly).

Do owners warn you in advance? Not usually. Some do so with kindness and understanding. Some do so with bravado, bragging about an aggressive dog. And some deny it, but you know differently. And then there are some that are truly surprised by their pet's behaviour.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The head of the rehab centre got her finger bitten off by a raccoon while preparing for a release. I definitely got scarred by that one. Makes me want to always use those leather gloves :)

Those leather gloves can give you a false sense of security, and give you lousy to no dexterity. They should be your last resort, not the thing you reach for first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Doctor who thought she was immune to bites, wasn't paying attention. I was vocal. It also all happened in less than a second.

She really did seem to forget she could get bit or scratched after working with several good techs for a few years. She worked with a new tech and some volunteers 2 weekends in a row and the little things she kept doing actually got her scratched and bit. She went back to only using the more experienced techs for anything even slightly fidgety for a good while after that and seemed to pay more attention to the animal's cues again.

Again, dumb move. I don't think she even realized "This cat has already bit 2 techs. We called in this one. Gave it vaccines. Oops dropped my syringe cap, better get it before somebody gets poked. Oh look, LotF has a death grip on that cats scruff and the cap is about one inch away from it's open and snapping jaws. Wonder what will happen if I put my hand here?"

She ignored all that (and yes the cat had already bit 2 other techs before I came back from lunch and got sent in to catch it) and me saying "Don't! Back up!" Dumb move. She didn't pay for it though. I felt like I won because that cat had nearly taken a finger off another tech and wrapped it's jaw 3/4 of the way around a bigger techs forearm (big cat) and I came away with 1 barely puncture and a scratch from another tooth. I shouldn't have been put in the situation, but I did the best with it that could have been done.

I don't like anybody getting hurt, so I have already over analyzed the set up so many times trying to see if there was something different I could have done. Beyond changing the situation entirely... I am reasonably certain that nearly every other move I could have come up with would have caused someone much greater damage.

I like the rule: Nobody gets bit ever. I just also know that sometimes you are screwed because rules are made to be broken.
Ok.
 
I still disagree. I think those situations could have been avoided better. But, A) I wasn't there. And I don't know everything and I won't pretend I do. And B) I'm not feeling like being argumentative today lol
 
The head of the rehab centre got her finger bitten off by a raccoon while preparing for a release. I definitely got scarred by that one. Makes me want to always use those leather gloves :)

We were told never to rely on leather gloves--one of the techs I worked for got her worst bite ever (IV antibiotics and two weeks off work) by a feral cat through gloves. Same is true working with squirrels, actually--rodent teeth will bite right through a rapter glove. Unfortunately, there is no "fool proof" method. I don't know anyone who's gone their entire careers without getting bit (though one doctor made it 34 years and only got bit recently, so that's pretty dang good), though I'm speaking about people who've been techs for 20+ years. Most who last that long are very, very good at avoiding it and keeping other people safe, and mostly bites happened when they were younger and more inexperienced, but yeah, we work in a risky field where serious injury is possible. I keep hearing all these stories on here and from my tech colleagues who've seen flat out, dying patients reach up and take off a finger or ravage a face or otherwise maul someone, going from lateral and half dead to attacking in a split second. I sometimes get scolded by doctors for defaulting to a muzzle at the least sign of escalating anxiety in my patients, but really, the few times I haven't trusted my gut has been when I've been nailed. I got savaged by a cat in an exam room while the doctor was trying to interfere with how I was holding. As soon as I did what she told me the cat nailed me. So I've learned to be pretty firm with what I know works for me (while still respecting the doctors and making sure patients aren't unduly distressed). I've also learned it's important to be able to message your doctor/tech when you need to abandon what you're doing.

I think in general as a field we're fairly reluctant to sedate aggressive animals, at least at the places I've worked at. I'll be curious to see what our professors in vet school recommend--how aggressive they feel we should be with sedation. My general feeling, particularly for young, healthy, fractious animals, is sedate them and don't mess around risking injury. But I've seen some techs who really want to "prove" they can handle the big baddies and while they're very good, it just seems like unnecessary risk. I know cost is often an issue and an owner may refuse, but I don't ever want to put myself, or my assistants, in unnecessary danger just to convenience an owner. I know the world isn't perfect and you can't always control these things, but if I think an animal is too fractious to control without sedation, I'm going to tell the owner that if they want said procedure (exam, nail trim, whatever) then their pet needs sedation, period. When put to that owner that way, I've yet to hear an owner say no (though I'm sure many will). Usually they're sheepish and understand that their pet is a being a jerk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
We were told never to rely on leather gloves--one of the techs I worked for got her worst bite ever (IV antibiotics and two weeks off work) by a feral cat through gloves. Same is true working with squirrels, actually--rodent teeth will bite right through a rapter glove. Unfortunately, there is no "fool proof" method. I don't know anyone who's gone their entire careers without getting bit (though one doctor made it 34 years and only got bit recently, so that's pretty dang good), though I'm speaking about people who've been techs for 20+ years. Most who last that long are very, very good at avoiding it and keeping other people safe, and mostly bites happened when they were younger and more inexperienced, but yeah, we work in a risky field where serious injury is possible. I keep hearing all these stories on here and from my tech colleagues who've seen flat out, dying patients reach up and take off a finger or ravage a face or otherwise maul someone, going from lateral and half dead to attacking in a split second. I sometimes get scolded by doctors for defaulting to a muzzle at the least sign of escalating anxiety in my patients, but really, the few times I haven't trusted my gut has been when I've been nailed. I got savaged by a cat in an exam room while the doctor was trying to interfere with how I was holding. As soon as I did what she told me the cat nailed me. So I've learned to be pretty firm with what I know works for me (while still respecting the doctors and making sure patients aren't unduly distressed). I've also learned it's important to be able to message your doctor/tech when you need to abandon what you're doing.

I think in general as a field we're fairly reluctant to sedate aggressive animals, at least at the places I've worked at. I'll be curious to see what our professors in vet school recommend--how aggressive they feel we should be with sedation. My general feeling, particularly for young, healthy, fractious animals, is sedate them and don't mess around risking injury. But I've seen some techs who really want to "prove" they can handle the big baddies and while they're very good, it just seems like unnecessary risk. I know cost is often an issue and an owner may refuse, but I don't ever want to put myself, or my assistants, in unnecessary danger just to convenience an owner. I know the world isn't perfect and you can't always control these things, but if I think an animal is too fractious to control without sedation, I'm going to tell the owner that if they want said procedure (exam, nail trim, whatever) then their pet needs sedation, period. When put to that owner that way, I've yet to hear an owner say no (though I'm sure many will). Usually they're sheepish and understand that their pet is a being a jerk.
my professors strongly pushed for chem restraint. If yours dont then...well, I'd be surprised
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think in general as a field we're fairly reluctant to sedate aggressive animals, at least at the places I've worked at. I'll be curious to see what our professors in vet school recommend--how aggressive they feel we should be with sedation. My general feeling, particularly for young, healthy, fractious animals, is sedate them and don't mess around risking injury. But I've seen some techs who really want to "prove" they can handle the big baddies and while they're very good, it just seems like unnecessary risk. I know cost is often an issue and an owner may refuse, but I don't ever want to put myself, or my assistants, in unnecessary danger just to convenience an owner. I know the world isn't perfect and you can't always control these things, but if I think an animal is too fractious to control without sedation, I'm going to tell the owner that if they want said procedure (exam, nail trim, whatever) then their pet needs sedation, period. When put to that owner that way, I've yet to hear an owner say no (though I'm sure many will). Usually they're sheepish and understand that their pet is a being a jerk.

I think this is highly dependent on where you are. I've noticed, as a broad and sweeping and likely inaccurate generalization, that GP docs seem less likely to recommend a sedation protocol than specialists. I've spent most of my time in various specialty surgery departments while in vet school and we have been so quick to jump on the sedation bandwagon. There needs to be a really good reason to risk someone getting hurt in order to avoid sedation. Not to mention, sedating an animal can not only prevent risk to you, but to the patient as well. I've been in places where owners refuse to go for it, and so we refuse to see their pet. I would imagine, at your school, your professors will be huge advocates for chemical restraint.
 
The GP doctors I worked with were very hesitant to sedate fractious pets for basic things like exam/vaccines, clip/clean, very minor procedures, or X-rays. I only saw it done a handful of times in a year. On one of those occasions, the dog got up and lunged at the owner and the assistant right after they were done clipping/cleaning whatever it was. Luckily, it was a little slower because it was still loopy, and they hadn't taken the muzzle off yet. There was one fractious cat that came in on a regular basis for an anal gland expression, but we never sedated even though he seemed to get worse with each visit (imagine that). I feel like the doctors felt like if we could conceivably get it done without sedation, we had to go ahead and just do it. For the ones restraining, it was frustrating. Every time that cat showed up on the schedule... "Oh, great. That one again."

Overall, at that practice, there was just a "get it done" vibe. Even with stupid nail trims. The few times when the other techs/assistants and I tried to give up, someone else - often the owner - would intervene and make us keep going. One owner was so upset by how stressed out her dog was afterwards that she said she was taking him to another place to be sedated for his nail trims. Great, that's a pet who had an even worse experience than necessary and lost revenue because we had to keep going to keep the client happy, and the client wouldn't have wanted us to keep going if they had known. I remember one nail trim that took 4 of us to do. The dog had just been diagnosed with cancer. We did the best we could, and the dog peed all over. A few minutes later, the doctor brought the dog back and said to trim some more because it looked like some of the nails hadn't been trimmed well, and the client complained. But we have to keep the client happy, of course. And the last time I was almost bitten was when a 100+ lb. dog mouthed me because the doctor quicked it because she kept trimming at the client's request. I had trimmed as much as I could get off each nail, and the dog was telling me when I was getting close to the quick. But the client wanted more, and oops, there go his teeth right onto my hand. There were a few doctors who were on the more cautious side, and I always appreciated it when they would be clear with clients about what was and wasn't doable. Otherwise, it was a give-them-what-they-want situation.

The specialty hospital I worked at was different, and the ER doctors would sedate if needed when possible. For X-rays, they sedated most pets to some extent or another. It was weird to move on to a practice where that never happened. Having to use cat gloves while positioning a cat for X-rays freaking sucks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't think it's really that GP doctors are "more hesitant" exactly. What some of you who are in school or pre-school aren't really grasping is that every single thing you do is a pro/con, risk/reward, time-value-money decision.

GP doctors <tend> to operate on tighter time budgets - they see more patients per day than most specialists. Sedating a pet can be done quickly, but no matter how you cut it it adds time that, unless it was known in advance and planned, wasn't budgeted for. Dexmed and Antisedan? Still takes <some> time. Propofol? Now you have to place a catheter - takes time. A little Torb and Midazolam? Gotta let it cook for a bit. None of those things take huge amounts of time, but if you're on a 15-minute, 4 appts/hr schedule you just got backed up by an entire appointment or two dealing with that patient you want to sedate.

It's super common for those of us in the referral world to sedate things - while I am under huge pressure to move things fast on many days, I don't have an actual appointment schedule, so I can park something in a cage and make the owner wait. Or I can say "Hey, this is gonna take a while. Go grab some coffee and come back in an hour." And sometimes I don't have a huge caseload, so I can dawdle all I want. I frequently take an otherwise healthy laceration repair and tell the owner "I'm going to kennel your dog until things quiet down, then fix the laceration. I'll call you when it's done. Or you can come back in the morning and I won't charge you for hospitalization." That sort of luxury is less often true in the GP world.

And, there is a risk equation to calculate in your head. Sedating an animal isn't risk free. Sure, it's really super low risk for most animals, but it still carries risk. Do you really want to sedate the 15-year-old fractious renal failure cat for an exam? In the GP world, for a lot of patients you can say "welllllll..... maybe this one isn't worth it" or "maybe we should send this one to the referral place for its dental procedure" (that happens ALL the time - they come for dentals not because the work is difficult but because the anesthesia is higher risk). In my world, they are in our hospital because they are sick - more often than not if I need to examine them I need to examine them. It's relatively less frequent that I'm able to say "let's just take a pass on your pet today." In the GP world, there are appropriate times to say "maybe an exam isn't all THAT important today." The only patient I've lost under anesthesia? It was a blocked cat with 100% normal bloodwork and no PE abnormalities. Even in blocked cats with 100% normal bloodwork I'm still pretty cautious with my protocol on these guys .... and he arrested within a minute of going under and didn't come back. Tough enough for me to go talk to that owner - would have really sucked had I sedated that cat for a wellness exam.

And yes, I realize there are exceptions, so nobody needs to start saying "But, but, but... this one time at band camp in my GP clinic...." There are exceptions to everything. As a general statement it's still true that I've got more luxury to sedate things than most GP doctors do most of the time. So I don't think they are "more hesitant" - it's that it's often just not as feasible for them. (Unless that's what people mean by "more hesitant".....)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
I don't think it's really that GP doctors are "more hesitant" exactly. What some of you who are in school or pre-school aren't really grasping is that every single thing you do is a pro/con, risk/reward, time-value-money decision.

GP doctors <tend> to operate on tighter time budgets - they see more patients per day than most specialists. Sedating a pet can be done quickly, but no matter how you cut it it adds time that, unless it was known in advance and planned, wasn't budgeted for. Dexmed and Antisedan? Still takes <some> time. Propofol? Now you have to place a catheter - takes time. A little Torb and Midazolam? Gotta let it cook for a bit. None of those things take huge amounts of time, but if you're on a 15-minute, 4 appts/hr schedule you just got backed up by an entire appointment or two dealing with that patient you want to sedate.

It's super common for those of us in the referral world to sedate things - while I am under huge pressure to move things fast on many days, I don't have an actual appointment schedule, so I can park something in a cage and make the owner wait. Or I can say "Hey, this is gonna take a while. Go grab some coffee and come back in an hour." And sometimes I don't have a huge caseload, so I can dawdle all I want. I frequently take an otherwise healthy laceration repair and tell the owner "I'm going to kennel your dog until things quiet down, then fix the laceration. I'll call you when it's done. Or you can come back in the morning and I won't charge you for hospitalization." That sort of luxury is less often true in the GP world.

And, there is a risk equation to calculate in your head. Sedating an animal isn't risk free. Sure, it's really super low risk for most animals, but it still carries risk. Do you really want to sedate the 15-year-old fractious renal failure cat for an exam? In the GP world, for a lot of patients you can say "welllllll..... maybe this one isn't worth it" or "maybe we should send this one to the referral place for its dental procedure" (that happens ALL the time - they come for dentals not because the work is difficult but because the anesthesia is higher risk). In my world, they are in our hospital because they are sick - more often than not if I need to examine them I need to examine them. It's relatively less frequent that I'm able to say "let's just take a pass on your pet today." In the GP world, there are appropriate times to say "maybe an exam isn't all THAT important today." The only patient I've lost under anesthesia? It was a blocked cat with 100% normal bloodwork and no PE abnormalities. Even in blocked cats with 100% normal bloodwork I'm still pretty cautious with my protocol on these guys .... and he arrested within a minute of going under and didn't come back. Tough enough for me to go talk to that owner - would have really sucked had I sedated that cat for a wellness exam.

And yes, I realize there are exceptions, so nobody needs to start saying "But, but, but... this one time at band camp in my GP clinic...." There are exceptions to everything. As a general statement it's still true that I've got more luxury to sedate things than most GP doctors do most of the time. So I don't think they are "more hesitant" - it's that it's often just not as feasible for them. (Unless that's what people mean by "more hesitant".....)

Exactly this... there is always a pro/con to everything, risk/reward, etc.... the dog that needs vaccines but I can't touch, owner can't muzzle however I can get it behind a door to give it vaccines... it is getting vaccines and that is it. Yes, I could spend the time attempting to sedate the dog so that I can do an exam first, then vaccinate the dog, but really there is a risk to the dog in doing that, that really doesn't benefit a giant reward, considering the age and overall health of the dog at the time. You can also gain a LOT of information about an animal from a distance. I could tell the dog was walking well, not limping, I could see clean teeth through an open mouth panting. I could get a gauge of the dog's respiratory pattern/effort. I could visibly see no skin abnormalities, no alopecia, ears were pink, not inflammed, no discharge, eyes were clear with no discharge. So, really, while I couldn't put my hands on the dog I got a heck of a lot of information just from observation from a distance. And I informed the owner of the things I could tell about their pet vs. those that I could not (i.e. heart murmurs, abdominal palpation, feeling for lumps/bumps) and they understood. I also took the opportunity to talk with them about things that can possibly make a future vet visit better for the dog and maybe even allow us to examine the dog with a muzzle. Should the dog have been sick, then I would have made sure I got my hands on that dog for a full physical, but it wasn't worth the risk to sedate a dog just to vaccinate. Not to mention the cost to the owner, the time it would take to sedate the dog, etc. It wasn't my intention to do "less" for the dog, but to do what I could knowing the risk/benefits, cost to client, and time available.

Also, sedating for things like nail trims, anal glands, grooming, etc... there is a risk to that and frequent sedation is not something we should strive for. I may have made a groomer upset a few weeks ago because I didn't sedate an animal as heavily as normal for grooming because the previous grooming the animal's heart rate got scary low... and while the sedation does decrease heart rate this was lower than what anyone should be comfortable with and it isn't worth the risk to the pet. So I cut back on sedation but it was still adequate for the groomer to do what was needed, I could tell that the groomer wasn't thrilled about my method though. Too bad, my job isn't to appease the groomer, it is to be sure my patient gets the treatment it needs as safely as possible (for everyone) with as little risk as possible. There is definitely a fine balance and not everything is black and white. While it seems simple enough to just sedate that fractious animal for its nails or anal glands or whatever, those are common enough procedures that it isn't appropriate to be sedating for every nail trim or every anal gland expression, so there is definitely balance involved. Not only that, but you turn what can be an appointment done by a technician (a nail trim) into an appointment that needs to see a doctor every time, taking up an appointment slot/time that could be given to a sick animal and taking up the doctor's time to come up with a sedation protocol for a procedure that will take less than 5 minutes... you can see how if we are able to safely trim nails without sedation or maybe some oral sedation given at home first, it becomes a much better and more feasible option, not only time wise, but patient safety wise and client cost wise.

And that is just discussing healthy animals, that doesn't take into account those with underlying health issues. Yes, that dog may very will be Cujo's direct spawn, but I am not about to sedate it because it has a grade VI/VI heart murmur, diabetes, renal disease and is 12 years old.... nope, not sedating. No thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Exactly this... there is always a pro/con to everything, risk/reward, etc.... the dog that needs vaccines but I can't touch, owner can't muzzle however I can get it behind a door to give it vaccines... it is getting vaccines and that is it. Yes, I could spend the time attempting to sedate the dog so that I can do an exam first, then vaccinate the dog, but really there is a risk to the dog in doing that, that really doesn't benefit a giant reward, considering the age and overall health of the dog at the time. You can also gain a LOT of information about an animal from a distance. I could tell the dog was walking well, not limping, I could see clean teeth through an open mouth panting. I could get a gauge of the dog's respiratory pattern/effort. I could visibly see no skin abnormalities, no alopecia, ears were pink, not inflammed, no discharge, eyes were clear with no discharge. So, really, while I couldn't put my hands on the dog I got a heck of a lot of information just from observation from a distance. And I informed the owner of the things I could tell about their pet vs. those that I could not (i.e. heart murmurs, abdominal palpation, feeling for lumps/bumps) and they understood. I also took the opportunity to talk with them about things that can possibly make a future vet visit better for the dog and maybe even allow us to examine the dog with a muzzle. Should the dog have been sick, then I would have made sure I got my hands on that dog for a full physical, but it wasn't worth the risk to sedate a dog just to vaccinate. Not to mention the cost to the owner, the time it would take to sedate the dog, etc. It wasn't my intention to do "less" for the dog, but to do what I could knowing the risk/benefits, cost to client, and time available.

Also, sedating for things like nail trims, anal glands, grooming, etc... there is a risk to that and frequent sedation is not something we should strive for. I may have made a groomer upset a few weeks ago because I didn't sedate an animal as heavily as normal for grooming because the previous grooming the animal's heart rate got scary low... and while the sedation does decrease heart rate this was lower than what anyone should be comfortable with and it isn't worth the risk to the pet. So I cut back on sedation but it was still adequate for the groomer to do what was needed, I could tell that the groomer wasn't thrilled about my method though. Too bad, my job isn't to appease the groomer, it is to be sure my patient gets the treatment it needs as safely as possible (for everyone) with as little risk as possible. There is definitely a fine balance and not everything is black and white. While it seems simple enough to just sedate that fractious animal for its nails or anal glands or whatever, those are common enough procedures that it isn't appropriate to be sedating for every nail trim or every anal gland expression, so there is definitely balance involved. Not only that, but you turn what can be an appointment done by a technician (a nail trim) into an appointment that needs to see a doctor every time, taking up an appointment slot/time that could be given to a sick animal and taking up the doctor's time to come up with a sedation protocol for a procedure that will take less than 5 minutes... you can see how if we are able to safely trim nails without sedation or maybe some oral sedation given at home first, it becomes a much better and more feasible option, not only time wise, but patient safety wise and client cost wise.

And that is just discussing healthy animals, that doesn't take into account those with underlying health issues. Yes, that dog may very will be Cujo's direct spawn, but I am not about to sedate it because it has a grade VI/VI heart murmur, diabetes, renal disease and is 12 years old.... nope, not sedating. No thanks.
My adhd dvmd...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top