Nervous/scared feeling about being bitten or injured on the job

[DVMDream]

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I don't think PP was suggesting anyone use a latch as their first means of restraint. I thought it was pretty clear she was saying they latch them while someone else is restraining so that if the dog goes nutzo and people have to bail, the dog is constrained and can't come after them. And, like I said, we don't do that where I work, but I can see it as a reasonable approach. *shrug*

And DVMD, I do take your point. I'm just saying I can see using it as a fail-safe.

Yeah, I guess it can, I just think there are better fail-safes. But potato, potatoh... just have the scissors ready if they get into any trouble.... especially them pugs... 😉

 

[yugen]

I don't think PP was suggesting anyone use a latch as their first means of restraint. I thought it was pretty clear she was saying they latch them while someone else is restraining so that if the dog goes nutzo and people have to bail, the dog is constrained and can't come after them.

I agree with you; I didn't think she was stating that, either. I guess I was getting at that when I've latched a pet, I've never really planned it being useful during an aggressive situation. I could see how it would turn out useful, though.

 

[yugen]

It doesn't take long... 2 seconds. It is kind of like a kid... you are watching them one second, the next they are into something toxic, or strangling themselves on a cord.

It isn't necessarily a failure of "supervision" as much as it is that it doesn't take long. What do you consider adequate supervision? Do I need to stare at the dog? Or is looking at it once a minute? Once every 2 minutes? If strangulation is a possibility with a latch... you have about 30ish seconds to save that dog... so basically someone needs to be staring at the dog, in which case, what is the point of hooking them on the latch?

Like many intangibles, I think 'adequate supervision' is likely a relative and subjective standard.

I have my own standard for this which usually involves a mixture of visual supervision and listening to the pet. Usually if I'm latching them, my legs are touching them and I glance at them or am physically touching them some way. What is your consideration of adequate supervision?

 

[DVMDream]

Like many intangibles, I think 'adequate supervision' is likely a relative and subjective standard.

I have my own standard for this which usually involves a mixture of visual supervision and listening to the pet. Usually if I'm latching them, my legs are touching them and I glance at them or am physically touching them some way. What is your consideration of adequate supervision?

Adequate supervision depends on the situation. I have had a puppy die on me after an anesthetic procedure, after it was extubated with both the vet and I being paranoid about it and checking in on it every 30 seconds. It just so happens it stopped breathing and seriously went 30 seconds (probably less) without someone looking at it... we tried CPR but it was a really sick puppy. Probably would have passed no matter what we did. But you still feel somewhat guilty. That is why I say adequate supervision is what is appropriate for the given situation. We gave that puppy adequate supervision.

I feel like glancing at a dog that is latched to table for simply "waiting" every 1-2 minutes is probably appropriate, however, it takes less than that for something bad to occur, which is why I wouldn't latch an animal. Also, not all clinics are set up that latches are where your "legs" might be, where you can physically touch them, or even see them. Our latch was on our treatment table which was behind the computer where charges were input. That means the animal is behind you. Clearly you would be listening to the animal, but it is a vet clinic... they are kind of noisy and I wouldn't fault any tech for not instantly hearing that something might not be right, especially if the dog was a fairly quiet dog to begin with. Strangling animals tend not to make much noise on account of being strangled. (Sorry, I had to... trust me I am being jokingly sarcastic here.. 😉 )

Supervision is largely dependent upon the situation and given that most people don't think of an animal strangling themselves on a latch, they aren't going to be constantly watching the dog, which is why I personally wouldn't use them. I also remove collars from animals when putting them in kennels because dog tags can get caught and strangle animals as well. I know I have seen some weird **** and do weird things... it is ok, I am a weird person... 😉

 

[hazelmoo]

Adequate supervision depends on the situation. I have had a puppy die on me after an anesthetic procedure, after it was extubated with both the vet and I being paranoid about it and checking in on it every 30 seconds. It just so happens it stopped breathing and seriously went 30 seconds (probably less) without someone looking at it... we tried CPR but it was a really sick puppy. Probably would have passed no matter what we did. But you still feel somewhat guilty. That is why I say adequate supervision is what is appropriate for the given situation. We gave that puppy adequate supervision.

I feel like glancing at a dog that is latched to table for simply "waiting" every 1-2 minutes is probably appropriate, however, it takes less than that for something bad to occur, which is why I wouldn't latch an animal. Also, not all clinics are set up that latches are where your "legs" might be, where you can physically touch them, or even see them. Our latch was on our treatment table which was behind the computer where charges were input. That means the animal is behind you. Clearly you would be listening to the animal, but it is a vet clinic... they are kind of noisy and I wouldn't fault any tech for not instantly hearing that something might not be right, especially if the dog was a fairly quiet dog to begin with. Strangling animals tend not to make much noise on account of being strangled. (Sorry, I had to... trust me I am being jokingly sarcastic here.. 😉 )

Supervision is largely dependent upon the situation and given that most people don't think of an animal strangling themselves on a latch, they aren't going to be constantly watching the dog, which is why I personally wouldn't use them. I also remove collars from animals when putting them in kennels because dog tags can get caught and strangle animals as well. I know I have seen some weird **** and do weird things... it is ok, I am a weird person... 😉

Idk, the dogs I've seen that freak out and try to strangle themselves on a leash at the vet tend to make a panicky/screamy/choking noise... 😉

 

[WildZoo]

We had a cat go bat****, like jumping on the walls peeing everywhere bat****, for reasons we still don't understand. Before and after that incident it was the sweetest cat ever. Never have I been more glad for our cat ward...Company policy is to double leash all pets, cats included, when they're out of a kennel. But it gets pretty scary when you've got a cat trying to break its own neck with a leash.

I haven't been bitten by any dogs or cats while on the job (yet). I was bitten by a bird And I've been scratched plenty, far more times by dogs than by cats. Those damn little dogs and their scrabbling.

Just a few days ago we had a great dane come in for a nail trim, without vaccine history. The owners had brought him along with their other two dogs who had vaccine appointments. Doctor went to poke his head in the room to say hi, tell them we would be with them soon, etc and the dane tried to eat his face. Twice. Then the lady tried to get pissy when he said we wouldn't be doing anything with that dog. Her little chihuahuas were almost as bad.

 

[DVMDream]

Idk, the dogs I've seen that freak out and try to strangle themselves on a leash at the vet tend to make a panicky/screamy/choking noise... 😉

Those ones aren't trying hard enough... or they are trying to convince you they are dying so that you will free them... 😉

 

[WildZoo]

We have a couple of those latch things on the treatment tables in the back. I've only ever seen them used to keep a dog still for a couple seconds while the person with them goes to grab something. Usually I just take the dog along with me, or even better make sure I have everything ready before bringing the dog out, but sometimes you forget to grab a blood tube or whatever and the dog is already a little nervous so you don't want to stress it out more by pulling it all around the place. There are also some of them along the front of the reception desk, I guess so owners don't have to hold onto their dog and fill out paperwork or pay for stuff at the same time, but I think I've seen maybe one person use them in the two months we've been open.

 

[pp9]

I get that, but even a "chilling" dog latched to those can get tangled. And it can happen quickly. That is why I am not a fan of them. Any animal tied up via its neck is at risk of strangling itself. Put the dog in a kennel if needed. Slip the leash over your arm while entering charges. Take the dog back to the owner while you enter charges. I would hope there is a door between the front half and back half of the clinic, I don't think I have ever seen a clinic without one. I was more thinking of a dog running out a back door and getting into the street or something those doors should be closed.

And I am not saying the latch is a method of control, I am saying, it should not be a backup for if you lose control. There are other, better alternatives for "backup" and there is no need to "latch" up a dog for it to just chill out while you are doing other things.

I am just stating, I have seen more than once a dog wrap itself up on a latch and turn blue.

We're not allowed to have our dogs near the computers...there was a leg hiking incident a while back....but even so, our very enforced rule is that absolutely no dog outside of a kennel is left unattended. We get written up if we're caught around the corner while our patient is latched. We definitely don't latch a dog and go do something else. The dog can chew the lead in half, the dog can get a nail caught on the lead and rip it out, etc. You're right, things do happen. I've just seen the latches work enough times that I'm fairly sold on them. The main purpose of them is moreso what LIS said-if we can't actively hold the leash. I've also seen dogs turn blue on them, but again, I've seen dogs turn blue pulling on their owners trying to break down the exit door at checkout. Ideally, we'd walk the patient back to the owners as soon as we're done, but we have another less-enforced policy that the patient is to hang out in the back for a few minutes post vaccine. It was put in place after some patients reacted to their vaccines as they were walking out the door.

I don't find trusting fail-safes to be entirely bad. Of course, you don't want to have to rely on them, but we do. You have to go through a series of gates to break out of our outdoor kennel area and ultimately the yard. I wish we had a vestibule at our front door, as a lot of clients lose control of their animals in the front. Our boarding kennel rooms have their own doors.

We do have a door between the front and the back, but the only second door in the back is that to our surgery room. We have several other rooms that a dog can run through. Our clinic is an old house with some small renovations, so that's part of it. What were bedrooms are now larger rooms with entire walls knocked down and whatever. Our latches our placed in a way that if we're at the computer, they're about 5 feet away.

Like I said, we rarely use drugs. I'm assuming it's doctor dependent and how they feel about it. I will also add that the only time I refuse to latch is in our tub (well, it's more of a little hook). It only took one dog trying to jump out and me using my hip to keep it from hanging itself for that to stop. Our bathing situation sucks though. We also unhook the dog if we have to lay it laterally.

 

[yugen]

Our latch was on our treatment table which was behind the computer where charges were input. That means the animal is behind you.

I hear you. I would feel uncomfortable using a latch that's a few feet behind me and the dog's out of my sight while I'm on a computer.

 

[WildZoo]

I also remove collars from animals when putting them in kennels because dog tags can get caught and strangle animals as well.

Yeah we do that too. Collars, harnesses, whatever. Everybody goes naked into the kennel!

 

[DVMDream]

We're not allowed to have our dogs near the computers...there was a leg hiking incident a while back....but even so, our very enforced rule is that absolutely no dog outside of a kennel is left unattended. We get written up if we're caught around the corner while our patient is latched. We definitely don't latch a dog and go do something else. The dog can chew the lead in half, the dog can get a nail caught on the lead and rip it out, etc. You're right, things do happen. I've just seen the latches work enough times that I'm fairly sold on them. The main purpose of them is moreso what LIS said-if we can't actively hold the leash. I've also seen dogs turn blue on them, but again, I've seen dogs turn blue pulling on their owners trying to break down the exit door at checkout. Ideally, we'd walk the patient back to the owners as soon as we're done, but we have another less-enforced policy that the patient is to hang out in the back for a few minutes post vaccine. It was put in place after some patients reacted to their vaccines as they were walking out the door.

I don't find trusting fail-safes to be entirely bad. Of course, you don't want to have to rely on them, but we do. You have to go through a series of gates to break out of our outdoor kennel area and ultimately the yard. I wish we had a vestibule at our front door, as a lot of clients lose control of their animals in the front. Our boarding kennel rooms have their own doors.

We do have a door between the front and the back, but the only second door in the back is that to our surgery room. We have several other rooms that a dog can run through. Our clinic is an old house with some small renovations, so that's part of it. What were bedrooms are now larger rooms with entire walls knocked down and whatever. Our latches our placed in a way that if we're at the computer, they're about 5 feet away.

Like I said, we rarely use drugs. I'm assuming it's doctor dependent and how they feel about it. I will also add that the only time I refuse to latch is in our tub (well, it's more of a little hook). It only took one dog trying to jump out and me using my hip to keep it from hanging itself for that to stop. Our bathing situation sucks though. We also unhook the dog if we have to lay it laterally.

I think you are still missing what I'm saying. Which is that, the animals I have seen strangled weren't left unattended. They were actually just as you described.... a few feet away from someone. And we never left them unattended or left the treatment area. Yet, crap happens. That's why we stopped using them. We never had a patient die from it, but having enough incidents we decided it wasn't worth it. Especially since there are alternatives.

 

[Minnerbelle]

How long did it take for you to get back to work? How did that emotional stress affect you? Also, do clinics have a backup plan for when a doctor has been bitten or injured where they can't take appointments for a set period of time?

I continued working that day (could have gone straight to the hospital but none of the wounds were deep thanks to the layers of clothing I had on, just a bad crushing injury). If I had to leave, then we would have had to cancel all nonurgent appointments and have the other doctor on take the rest. It was an extremely busy day so that would have been awful. From the next day on, they would have had to do the same, see if another doctor was willing to come in, or if a relief vet could come in on short notice.

Right after the injury, I left the room, ran around in circles a bit until the pain subsided, and told the owner the visit is over and that I recommend euthanasia as the dog is dangerous esp since the owner was scared of dog.

Just popped some ibuprofen, cleaned it, iced it between appointments, and filled out a bite report and incident report. Went to the ER the next morning on my day off and got a rabies booster and good pain meds. Stayed in bed for the rest of the day. Went back to work the next day. It hurt like a bitch but it wasn't debilitating thankfully. Had the same bite been to my hand or face, I'm pretty sure I would have gone to surgery for it and been out for a bit.

For the next few days, when I had major caution large dogs in my schedule, I had another doctor switch with me. I had a new 120 lb rottie patient the next day that was sketchy as hell. Owner didn't feel comfortable muzzling and didn't want sedation. So I said **** it, and sent it home without an exam. Told them the dog needs to be trained to a basket muzzle and have one on before setting foot on hospital property, or we need to sedate.

After about a week, I was back to normal.

 

[pp9]

I think you are still missing what I'm saying. Which is that, the animals I have seen strangled weren't left unattended. They were actually just as you described.... a few feet away from someone. And we never left them unattended or left the treatment area. Yet, crap happens. That's why we stopped using them. We never had a patient die from it, but having enough incidents we decided it wasn't worth it. Especially since there are alternatives.

No, I'm really not. We're just disagreeing.

 

[FeenyFee]

I continued working that day (could have gone straight to the hospital but none of the wounds were deep thanks to the layers of clothing I had on, just a bad crushing injury). If I had to leave, then we would have had to cancel all nonurgent appointments and have the other doctor on take the rest. It was an extremely busy day so that would have been awful. From the next day on, they would have had to do the same, see if another doctor was willing to come in, or if a relief vet could come in on short notice.

Right after the injury, I left the room, ran around in circles a bit until the pain subsided, and told the owner the visit is over and that I recommend euthanasia as the dog is dangerous esp since the owner was scared of dog.

Just popped some ibuprofen, cleaned it, iced it between appointments, and filled out a bite report and incident report. Went to the ER the next morning on my day off and got a rabies booster and good pain meds. Stayed in bed for the rest of the day. Went back to work the next day. It hurt like a bitch but it wasn't debilitating thankfully. Had the same bite been to my hand or face, I'm pretty sure I would have gone to surgery for it and been out for a bit.

For the next few days, when I had major caution large dogs in my schedule, I had another doctor switch with me. I had a new 120 lb rottie patient the next day that was sketchy as hell. Owner didn't feel comfortable muzzling and didn't want sedation. So I said **** it, and sent it home without an exam. Told them the dog needs to be trained to a basket muzzle and have one on before setting foot on hospital property, or we need to sedate.

After about a week, I was back to normal.

Do you use basket muzzles or the cloth (not sure what they are called) muzzles at your clinic?

One of the vets I work for doesn't like to muzzle until the dog gives a reason to be muzzled. The other vet I work for muzzles pretty much everything no matter how friendly.

 

[dyachei]

So I really, really, REALLY hate "cat tanks". I'd rather clamshell them into the mesh cat catcher than tank a cat down EVER. Not only is it stressful on you, the cats get SUPER stressed (and need more anesthesia) AND everyone is exposed to anesthetic. Just a really bad plan. Injectable meds are safer for everyone (and you can dose to effect to a degree).

We use the cloth muzzles when needed at my clinic and burrito cats or use cat muzzles as needed. We also feliway rooms and ourselves pretty regularly. I only muzzle as needed.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Also, do clinics have a backup plan for when a doctor has been bitten or injured where they can't take appointments for a set period of time?

This wasn't a work-related injury, but at the clinic I work at last year one of the doctors broke her ankle (she was taking her dog out and slipped on a patch of ice on her front steps). Luckily it was on one of her days off, so it didn't affect the clinic that day, but she was out of work for about two weeks. We're a three-doctor practice and usually have two doctors there at a time, so the other two doctors had to work some extra shifts, or sometimes we just had one doctor there. It made for some days where the one doctor there was super busy, but we made it work.

When she did come back she was on one of those little wheely things that you rest one knee on (not sure what the proper name is 😛) for a couple weeks, and then in a boot for at least a month. There were a few weeks where she couldn't do surgeries or see large dogs, but the other doctors picked up the slack. I'm not sure what we would have done if we were a single-doctor practice.

ETA: I also just remembered that she had originally planned on going on vacation the week after she broke her ankle. It really sucked for her that she didn't get to go anymore, but it helped that we had already adjusted the schedule for that week to accommodate her absence!

 

[LetItSnow]

Do you use basket muzzles or the cloth (not sure what they are called) muzzles at your clinic?

Depends on the patient. We have a variety of muzzle types, and use different ones for different situations and different animals. We have basket muzzles, grooming muzzles, leather muzzles, cat muzzles, etc.

 

[FeenyFee]

Depends on the patient. We have a variety of muzzle types, and use different ones for different situations and different animals. We have basket muzzles, grooming muzzles, leather muzzles, cat muzzles, etc.

When is a good time to use each?

 

[Minnerbelle]

I don't muzzle a vast majority of my patients. Only if they are sketchy or overtly bad.

We usually use cloth muzzles for dogs. But if someone has an uncontrollable dog that no one can muzzle, then I have them acclimate the dog at home in a non-stressful manner with a basket muzzle so that they can learn to wear it and be okay with it. If I'm going to have an owner muzzle at home before coming to the hospital, I just don't think the cloth muzzles are safe. This is all provided the animal is not a dangerous dog with the owners and the owners are given plenty of warning.

And ditto to Dyachei. I hate gassing down cats and will avoid it if at all possible.

 

[LetItSnow]

So I'm kinda grimacing and giggling all at once because now that it came up in this thread, I'm watching more, and my techs all evening keep latching every other dog to our treatment tables. The ones that are just sorta sitting around waiting for this test or that test but are probably going home. Those type of patients.

I don't muzzle most of my patients, either. But I also don't hesitate when it's indicated. I feel like a pretty sizeable percentage of aggressive dogs become remarkably manageable with a muzzle on. Not just in the sense that it's harder for them to bite you, but also in the sense that they just don't fight back as much.

I also agree with Dyachei and MB about gassing cats down. I don't remember the last time I did it. We have boxes for it, but I avoid them.

When is a good time to use each?

Just depends. If I have a respiratory compromised patient, I'm not putting a cloth muzzle on them. So there's a good case for a basket muzzle if it needs one and I don't need immediate, direct access to its airway. I like the soft cloth muzzles for most cases, but be careful - it's still possible to get bit with them on. Cat muzzles are ... well ... for cats. 🙂 Sometimes the type of muzzle my techs pick (really, they do the muzzle selection, not me) is purely based on what will fit the best. A loose muzzle is worthless, and a too-tight muzzle is uncomfortable for the animal.

 

[DVMDream]

So I'm kinda grimacing and giggling all at once because now that it came up in this thread, I'm watching more, and my techs all evening keep latching every other dog to our treatment tables. The ones that are just sorta sitting around waiting for this test or that test but are probably going home. Those type of patients.

I don't muzzle most of my patients, either. But I also don't hesitate when it's indicated. I feel like a pretty sizeable percentage of aggressive dogs become remarkably manageable with a muzzle on. Not just in the sense that it's harder for them to bite you, but also in the sense that they just don't fight back as much.

I also agree with Dyachei and MB about gassing cats down. I don't remember the last time I did it. We have boxes for it, but I avoid them.



Just depends. If I have a respiratory compromised patient, I'm not putting a cloth muzzle on them. So there's a good case for a basket muzzle if it needs one and I don't need immediate, direct access to its airway. I like the soft cloth muzzles for most cases, but be careful - it's still possible to get bit with them on. Cat muzzles are ... well ... for cats. 🙂 Sometimes the type of muzzle my techs pick (really, they do the muzzle selection, not me) is purely based on what will fit the best. A loose muzzle is worthless, and a too-tight muzzle is uncomfortable for the animal.

Have you used the space ball muzzle?

 

[LetItSnow]

Have you used the space ball muzzle?

Nope. Never even seen it or heard of it.

Do cats like playing astronaut? I'm not sure what to make of it....

 

[DVMDream]

Nope. Never even seen it or heard of it.

Do cats like playing astronaut? I'm not sure what to make of it....

Lol. Apparently people must think cats like playing astronaut between that and the new backpack worn window thing for cats.

We tried the space muzzle (it isn't actually called that we just called it that) where I worked. No one liked it, it was way too big and bulky so couldn't get a hold of the cat's head as well. I could see its use fora cat in respiratory distress though.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Lol. Apparently people must think cats like playing astronaut between that and the new backpack worn window thing for cats.

We tried the space muzzle (it isn't actually called that we just called it that) where I worked. No one liked it, it was way too big and bulky so couldn't get a hold of the cat's head as well. I could see its use fora cat in respiratory distress though.

Respiratory distress is all I've seen it used for. We put it on a lhasa that needed a U/S and turned blue out of the cage and fought the mask. She couldn't escape this. The open end screws on to a piece that attaches to the nebulizer or the O2 tubes.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Respiratory distress is all I've seen it used for. We put it on a lhasa that needed a U/S and turned blue out of the cage and fought the mask. She couldn't escape this. The open end screws on to a piece that attaches to the nebulizer or the O2 tubes.

We call it the hamster ball.

 

[Minnerbelle]

E-collar with seran wrap over the front and an oxygen line going in from the collar works pretty well for the dyspneic dogs for whom flow-by/mask don't work too.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Necessity is the mother of invention!

 

[orca2011]

Have you used the space ball muzzle?

We had it at the first placed I worked. Don't think anyone was really a fan of it either. If often came off during the struggle.

 

[StartingoverVet]

We had a cat go bat****, like jumping on the walls peeing everywhere bat****, for reasons we still don't understand. Before and after that incident it was the sweetest cat ever. Never have I been more glad for our cat ward...Company policy is to double leash all pets, cats included, when they're out of a kennel. But it gets pretty scary when you've got a cat trying to break its own neck with a leash.

I haven't been bitten by any dogs or cats while on the job (yet). I was bitten by a bird And I've been scratched plenty, far more times by dogs than by cats. Those damn little dogs and their scrabbling.

Just a few days ago we had a great dane come in for a nail trim, without vaccine history. The owners had brought him along with their other two dogs who had vaccine appointments. Doctor went to poke his head in the room to say hi, tell them we would be with them soon, etc and the dane tried to eat his face. Twice. Then the lady tried to get pissy when he said we wouldn't be doing anything with that dog. Her little chihuahuas were almost as bad.

My war story...
Chow came in for a bandage removal. I was restraining "the top half", while the very experienced tech held down the bottom and changed the bandage.

Had the dog in "lateral recumbency" and before we even did anything the chow forcefully got out of my hold and bit me in the neck. The freaking neck.

I guess the dog was just warning me because it immediately let go and I was left with 2 puncture wounds in my neck. If the dog was "serious", I might not be around to write this.

Learned a few lessons:
1) What are the warning signs of a Chow biting you? None necessary, they are a chow.
2) Whatever pressure you are holding to restrain a dog is not necessarily the pressure you will need in a few seconds.
3) Whenever possible let someone else take the "top half".

Those are obviously tongue in cheek, but no matter how diligent you are, you just never know how some animals will react.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

I feel like I might be a little more cautious at first because my face will be much closer to the animal and I feel like I'm always in somewhat of a more vulnerable position.

 

[FeenyFee]

My war story...
Chow came in for a bandage removal. I was restraining "the top half", while the very experienced tech held down the bottom and changed the bandage.

Had the dog in "lateral recumbency" and before we even did anything the chow forcefully got out of my hold and bit me in the neck. The freaking neck.

I guess the dog was just warning me because it immediately let go and I was left with 2 puncture wounds in my neck. If the dog was "serious", I might not be around to write this.

Learned a few lessons:
1) What are the warning signs of a Chow biting you? None necessary, they are a chow.
2) Whatever pressure you are holding to restrain a dog is not necessarily the pressure you will need in a few seconds.
3) Whenever possible let someone else take the "top half".

Those are obviously tongue in cheek, but no matter how diligent you are, you just never know how some animals will react.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Sorry that happened to you, especially the NECK Sometimes I feel like I have a dog in an expert hold. Your second tip is definitely true -- Sometimes I think I have a dog or cat in a really great firm hold... No. My reaction times are getting better though.. I think lol

 

[WildZoo]

I had a 6 month old kitten freak out on me for no discernible reason today and try to claw it's way over my shoulder. Of course it hadn't had a nail trim like ever so that hurt like hell. I never did check my back to see how bad it was.

Sobsob's story beats all of mine. I can't imagine being bitten by a dog in the neck

 

[WillowLeaf]

As a caveat - sitting on the floor takes away your ability to move away quickly. Once you start to actually examine the patient, you need to change postures to something that allows you appropriate defensive mobility.

I like kneeling on one knee when meeting new patients for this reason - you're at a non-threatening level, but can stand up and get away quicker than from sitting. Downside is that it hurts the knee that's on the hard clinic floor...

We had a cat go bat****, like jumping on the walls peeing everywhere bat****, for reasons we still don't understand. Before and after that incident it was the sweetest cat ever. Never have I been more glad for our cat ward...Company policy is to double leash all pets, cats included, when they're out of a kennel. But it gets pretty scary when you've got a cat trying to break its own neck with a leash.

Do you ever make a shoulder harness out of a leash so it might be less scary for the cat if they do get stopped from bolting by the leash? I've seen a cat try to bolt while leashed at a clinic once, and when the leash stopped it, the cat panicked worse than ever (the cat wasn't used to collars or leashes) and got more aggressive, and I was worried it could have injured itself in the few seconds before we could throw a towel on it and catch it. I've never actually tried the shoulder harness method, though, just heard people suggest it for situations where a leash might be used.

 

[Trilt]

I like making slip lead harnesses for cats. Do a normal slip lead around the neck, and then make another loop under the chest and put the end through the same metal loop as the first. If they bolt and pull, it tightens around their torso, not their neck.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair? Safety first, but I'd like to be as self-sufficient and independent as possible.

 

[cowgirla]

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair? Safety first, but I'd like to be as self-sufficient and independent as possible.

Slip leash harness, tied to wheelchair, of course. It will be like flying.

 

[WildZoo]

I like making slip lead harnesses for cats. Do a normal slip lead around the neck, and then make another loop under the chest and put the end through the same metal loop as the first. If they bolt and pull, it tightens around their torso, not their neck.

Yes! They used to do this for bathing cats at the place I used to work. I had completely forgotten about it.

You're right @WillowLeaf most cats tend to flip out more when they feel the resistance from the leash because th eyre not used to having things around their necks.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair? Safety first, but I'd like to be as self-sufficient and independent as possible.

Adjustable height exam tables/scales and a great tech for when they get out of reach or are too long bodied to be held from the seated position.

At some point you will have patients that need chemical restraint or nothing. Where that line is may depend in part on how low down your mobility stops determining your reach and flexibility.

 

[hazelmoo]

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair? Safety first, but I'd like to be as self-sufficient and independent as possible.

Just teach Corky to put unruly patients in a headlock while you do your exams like so:

But really, in all the clinics I've worked in, the techs do the vast majority of the restraint. So when you're a vet, hopefully you can work in a place with awesome techs who know good techniques to keep you safe while you do exams, biopsies, vaccines, etc.

 

[missdarjeeling]

Have you used the space ball muzzle?

Man, I hate that f-ing thing.

Not only does it come off easily when they freak out, being hit in the face with one when the cat flails is not fun.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I like making slip lead harnesses for cats. Do a normal slip lead around the neck, and then make another loop under the chest and put the end through the same metal loop as the first. If they bolt and pull, it tightens around their torso, not their neck.

Also in Sophia Yin's handling book. Can't recommend that book/DVD enough. And safe, good toweling for cats. Many people don't do it right.

 

[Minnerbelle]

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair? Safety first, but I'd like to be as self-sufficient and independent as possible.

Learn to read body language well, especially with your larger canine patients. Don't be a hero. Any level of sketch alert, then don't risk it. Wheelchairs can sometimes be extra threatening to fear aggressive dogs (some dogs also react poorly to men so you could even have a double whammy). If I'm not getting positive body language, i do not risk going face level with the dog's head, and I keep some distance until I have a better handle on their behavior. I approach slowly with the understanding that I may need to retreat or turn around so that I am no longer a threat to the dog. In a wheelchair, you will have to be extra careful because your vertical position is less flexible, and especially in a smaller exam room, your mobility may be more limited.

You may have to get over the self-sufficiency/independence for the small percentage of patients that do not jive with your wheelchair. You gotta pick and choose your battles. At the end of the day, your goal is to make sure your patients are taken care of and that you are safe. If it means you get help or that pet sees someone else, that is probably better than forcing your way through it regardless of there being better alternatives for the patient.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I would also think that having a technician/assistant with you at all times at your side to restrain animals, be an extra hand, etc... would be considered reasonable accommodations. That should help some too.

 

[LetItSnow]

I approach slowly with the understanding that I may need to retreat or turn around so that I am no longer a threat to the dog.

And do it in a way that the dog has somewhere to go if it needs to. It's annoying when they move away from you, but it's way better than forcing them to get aggressive because they feel like they have no other option.

What would you all do if you were in a wheelchair?

Me? I'd use it as an excuse to never restrain an animal ever.

But I'm kinda lazy that way.

 

[FeenyFee]

Just casually going to bring this thread back up lol. If a dog/cat comes in when you know you have to sedate to examine, how do you properly restrain while trying to get the muzzle on a dog or scruff the cat? I feel like there is a bit of a scary gray area where you just have to kind of wing it until you get them restrained enough to administer meds.

When dogs are extremely stressed (defecating, urinating and anal glanding and screaming) for nail trims, we are always told to just hold them down and get it done. I always feels so guilty after this and feel awful. How do other clinics handle bad nail trims? We try head tapping, treats, singing to them, covering their eyes with a towel, lay them on their side so its faster, etc.

 

[EngrSC]

For bad nail trims - we have a couple dogs that do all of the above (defecating, urinating, anal glanding, and screaming) that do WAY better with just a muzzle and no or minimal restraint. It doesn't work for all but it helps for some. And for aggressive dogs/cats in general, towels are your friend. 🙂

 

[missdarjeeling]

Just casually going to bring this thread back up lol. If a dog/cat comes in when you know you have to sedate to examine, how do you properly restrain while trying to get the muzzle on a dog or scruff the cat? I feel like there is a bit of a scary gray area where you just have to kind of wing it until you get them restrained enough to administer meds.

We usually try to do it lightning fast before they have time to react. Some dogs get muzzle smart, and then it's a matter of trying to outsmart them and being very quick with throwing the muzzle on, but that doesn't always work. For the worst of the worst dogs, we've pinned them in between a door and a wall with their heads facing in and poked them with a sedative. For cats, it's just a matter of cat gloves, a towel, and a classic boob hold. That works the majority of the time. I've also used a cat bag for the worst cats. I don't know what it's technically called, but it looks like a standard catch pole/rabies pole with a netted bag attached. You try to get the bag over the cat so that the cat ends up inside the bag. Then you pull on the line at the very end of the pole to close the top of the bag. Once the cat is safely in the bag, you can roll the pole to basically make the bag into a cat burrito. Then you poke them through one of the holes in the netted bag to sedate or administer vaccines. That thing is freaking awesome, but we only used it on cats that were completely unmanageable.

The hardest thing for me in handling these types of pets was forcing myself to be confident about what I was doing. You can't really hesitate. You have to be fast and confident to get it done or they'll be faster than you and outsmart you.

When dogs are extremely stressed (defecating, urinating and anal glanding and screaming) for nail trims, we are always told to just hold them down and get it done. I always feels so guilty after this and feel awful. How do other clinics handle bad nail trims? We try head tapping, treats, singing to them, covering their eyes with a towel, lay them on their side so its faster, etc.

We did the same. Sometimes less is more worked. We'd try everything to figure out what might possibly help. There were a few nail trims that only a specific tech was supposed to do because it just so happened that one specific person was able to get it to work while no one else could, for no discernible reason. For the ones where nothing worked, we'd try to speed it up as much as possible with two people clipping fast. I hate nail trims so much.

 

[dyachei]

We usually try to do it lightning fast before they have time to react. Some dogs get muzzle smart, and then it's a matter of trying to outsmart them and being very quick with throwing the muzzle on, but that doesn't always work. For the worst of the worst dogs, we've pinned them in between a door and a wall with their heads facing in and poked them with a sedative. For cats, it's just a matter of cat gloves, a towel, and a classic boob hold. That works the majority of the time. I've also used a cat bag for the worst cats. I don't know what it's technically called, but it looks like a standard catch pole/rabies pole with a netted bag attached. You try to get the bag over the cat so that the cat ends up inside the bag. Then you pull on the line at the very end of the pole to close the top of the bag. Once the cat is safely in the bag, you can roll the pole to basically make the bag into a cat burrito. Then you poke them through one of the holes in the netted bag to sedate or administer vaccines. That thing is freaking awesome, but we only used it on cats that were completely unmanageable.

The hardest thing for me in handling these types of pets was forcing myself to be confident about what I was doing. You can't really hesitate. You have to be fast and confident to get it done or they'll be faster than you and outsmart you.



We did the same. Sometimes less is more worked. We'd try everything to figure out what might possibly help. There were a few nail trims that only a specific tech was supposed to do because it just so happened that one specific person was able to get it to work while no one else could, for no discernible reason. For the ones where nothing worked, we'd try to speed it up as much as possible with two people clipping fast. I hate nail trims so much.

Sometimes you need to use certain tools.

Things that can help with super aggressive animals - sometimes they are better or worse with their owners. I had one dog that was a demon when his owners were gone (like lunging at people if ever taken to the back) but did great when in the same room as the owner.

Gauze muzzles - you can use roll gauze to make a long muzzle to keep hands out of harms way - this quick muzzle will allow a 2nd muzzle to be placed after with minimal risk

rabies pole

cat grabbing clamshell.

If I know a cat is fractious, I try to pre-sedate (gabapentin or similar to the owner) and have them come in a mesh carrier - you can squeeze them down and inject through the mesh.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Just casually going to bring this thread back up lol. If a dog/cat comes in when you know you have to sedate to examine, how do you properly restrain while trying to get the muzzle on a dog or scruff the cat? I feel like there is a bit of a scary gray area where you just have to kind of wing it until you get them restrained enough to administer meds.

It depends on the patient -- some will let their owners muzzle, some will not. Some will allow themselves to be distracted with chatter and treats until the muzzle goes on. And some you need to be faster than they can see coming, or restrain them without a muzzle to get drugs in (there are techniques like squeeze traps for that). That type of thing should only happen once -- after that, they come in to the clinic already sedated and/or muzzled from home.

When dogs are extremely stressed (defecating, urinating and anal glanding and screaming) for nail trims, we are always told to just hold them down and get it done. I always feels so guilty after this and feel awful. How do other clinics handle bad nail trims? We try head tapping, treats, singing to them, covering their eyes with a towel, lay them on their side so its faster, etc.

If they're that stressed for a nail trim (and can't be calmed by treats and chatter) they shouldn't be getting nail trims without significant sedation -- holding them down only increases their fear and makes it all the worse the next time.

See my answers in green, above. Drugs are your friend.