Neurosurgery: Chances of matching

[TheKreator]

Hi all,

Recently ran into some concern when reviewing the new Charting The Outcomes release. I am planning to apply for neurosurgery but I haven't got something which seems to be important: research.

I was in an accelerated BS/MD program that left me very little time to do undergrad or medical school research, and now I am worried about it.
I have almost all preclinical and clinical honors, will likely get AOA, and I have loads of meaningful leadership positions, community service, a 257 on step 1, etc. I have a well rounded application, but probably only one small cohort study and a case report as of now as far as pubs go. I am working on getting on the team for a systematic review here soon.

I do know people in the field, so I am going to be able to swing good away rotations just fine. I just would like some discussion on my overall application. Thanks in advance!

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[mmmcdowe]

Do more research

 

[TheKreator]

Do more research

If the research is not necessarily in neurosurgery, is that fine? I hear a mix of yes it matters and no it doesn't.

 

[PaperChart]

NSG Research > Other Research >>>> No Research.

If your options are non-NSG research or no research, yeah of course do whatever you can find. If for some reason you can't get NSG research, most programs still want to know that you're able/willing to do research, so I would at least look for opportunities in related fields, like neuroradiology or neurology.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Doing neurosurgery research is significantly more valuable than other research because, as a tiny field, it is about names.

 

[neusu]

Hi all,

Recently ran into some concern when reviewing the new Charting The Outcomes release. I am planning to apply for neurosurgery but I haven't got something which seems to be important: research.

I was in an accelerated BS/MD program that left me very little time to do undergrad or medical school research, and now I am worried about it.
I have almost all preclinical and clinical honors, will likely get AOA, and I have loads of meaningful leadership positions, community service, a 257 on step 1, etc. I have a well rounded application, but probably only one small cohort study and a case report as of now as far as pubs go. I am working on getting on the team for a systematic review here soon.

I do know people in the field, so I am going to be able to swing good away rotations just fine. I just would like some discussion on my overall application. Thanks in advance!

How do you have time for "meaningful leadership positions" but not research? Also, with respect to your neurosurgery application, those extra-circulars are not meaningful.

 

[TheKreator]

How do you have time for "meaningful leadership positions" but not research? Also, with respect to your neurosurgery application, those extra-circulars are not meaningful.

That's crazy that they are not meaningful at all. I should have also said that I did not go to a research heavy institution, and I decided to work on neurosurgery at the beginning of third year. I have been contemplating taking a research year to beef up my app.

 

[bannie22]

Is there any disadvantage if OP apply and get rejected, defer graduation, and take a research year then reapply?
He will still be considered AMG and possibly saves a year if he matches early.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Is there any disadvantage if OP apply and get rejected, defer graduation, and take a research year then reapply?
He will still be considered AMG and possibly saves a year if he matches early.

Huge disadvantage. I vote no on almost everyone who was rejected previously.

 

[bannie22]

Huge disadvantage. I vote no on almost everyone who was rejected previously.

Thats tough, is there a reason why you (and the committee) would vote no? A reapplicant just seems to want it more, especially if the app improved.

 

[neusu]

That's crazy that they are not meaningful at all. I should have also said that I did not go to a research heavy institution, and I decided to work on neurosurgery at the beginning of third year. I have been contemplating taking a research year to beef up my app.

A research year can help if you are lacking in research.

Your application is the sum of the experiences you have. The most important factors are Step 1, Letters, and research. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf Things like leadership, and life experience are fluff that you can discuss at the interview, if you get it.

 

[neusu]

Is there any disadvantage if OP apply and get rejected, defer graduation, and take a research year then reapply?
He will still be considered AMG and possibly saves a year if he matches early.

I agree with @mmmcdowe that they generally get the thumbs down. That being said, there is no way to tell if you applied previously, and applying as a US senior is far better than US grad.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Thats tough, is there a reason why you (and the committee) would vote no? A reapplicant just seems to want it more, especially if the app improved.

Want it more when you had no options? I don't think that logic holds since by definition anyone who got a spot didn't need to re-apply so its hard to conclude that the people who re-applied wanted it more than those who got the spots. It's a big red flag because it suggests that, regardless of your department's opinion, a general "not good enough to rank to match" opinion was voiced by every other department they applied to previously. That boundary is rarely defined by just one fixable application problem such as not enough pubs. Not enough pubs may drop where you rank on your list, but to not match at all is suggestive of a more general deficiency (i.e poor grades, poor letters, no research, and poor interview impression isn't going to be fixed by doing a year of research).

 

[bannie22]

Want it more because they were willing to spend another year to reapply instead of electing to pursue a different specialty.

Thats true. There must be more than one flaw when one goes unmatched. If the consequences are indeed that dire then OP should really shun away from applying prior to taking a research year of. It doesnt seem to be worth the risk of going unmatched and subsequently having to work against the greatest of odds.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Want it more because they were willing to spend another year to reapply instead of electing to pursue a different specialty.

Thats true. There must be more than one flaw when one goes unmatched. If the consequences are indeed that dire then OP should really shun away from applying prior to taking a research year of. It doesnt seem to be worth the risk of going unmatched and subsequently having to work against the greatest of odds.

Reapplying is a complicated decision that includes financial limitations, strength of application, whether or not you have a prelim or categorical spot or matched at all, and your happiness at whereever you landed. Because of that I wouldnt draw the conclusion that reapplicants want it nore than those who didnt reapply

 

[bannie22]

Fair enough

Kudos to those that somehow find a way against these stacked odds

Im sure programs keep a record of all applicants so it probably be risky to apply prior to having the best possible app so for OP case seems like taking a research year is the way to go esp with average step now at 249