Never, ever give up.

[SunshineCoast]

This post is for any pre-med out there who is struggling. Anyone who is depressed, anxious, and feels lost. Anyone who is dreading another application cycle, scared of getting rejected once again, scared of the medical school interviews, scared of the uncertainty of where they will be next year. Anyone who is tired and wants to give up and settle for mediocrity.

I’m currently a medical student finishing up my first year, but let me tell you, I was once in your shoes. It took me four application cycles, four MCAT rewrites, and ****ing grad school to get in. I’m currently in one of the top medical schools in Canada. I used to be scared as ****. I was scared of getting rejected. I felt lost and I had no idea where I was going in my life. The idea of getting rejected from medical school used to keep me up at night. I would obsess over every little thing that could go wrong to the point of my own thoughts would paralyze me.

I learned one valuable lesson from my journey to medicine and I would like to share it with you guys. Never, ever, ever, ****ing give up. I don’t give a **** if you have a low GPA. I don’t give a **** if you think your ECs and MCAT aren’t good enough. I don’t give a **** if you are scared of MMI’s and the CASPER test. No obstacle is insurmountable. Go look in the mirror and imagine yourself as a warrior who will not give up until you achieve your goals. There is only one way to live life, and it is to live it with extreme confidence. There is no other alternative.

Move forward boldly, with aggression, and with determination. There is no giving up. There is no plan B. There is no turning back. The day you give up on your goals and dreams is the day you die. You will regret that day for the rest of your life. Crush your goals and surprise your inner self with how strong you are.

If medicine is what you want, then go out there and get it. Don’t let anyone or anything hold you back, especially yourself.

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[M&L]

I definitely agree. It took me 3 cycles to get in, just because i made really stupid mistakes during application process- honestly one visit to SDN wouldve prevented every single one. I didnt know SDN exists though. Then i asked an anonymous question regarding my realistic chances (after 3 MCAT attempts and 2 failed application cycles), @LizzyM answered it. Then i looked up @Goro 's guide to reinvention, and within a few month of searching more i found out what i was doing wrong with MCAT and took it again, getting a good score; signed up for a great internship in NIH, and increased my volunteering hours. As the result - 5 interviews - 4 acceptances and 1 WL. It took a lot of hard work. But honestly, non of it would be possible without @LizzyM telling me about my realistic chances, and Goro being so amazing with all the information they provide.
I did have a backup plan though, - if i did not get in that year, i would've gone PhD in Biochemistry or math. My math professor encouraged me to do PhD in applied mathematics, and i was thinking about coming up with a project that blends Biochemistry and Applied mathematics (modeling, for example). I think it is very important to have a backup plan too.

 

[LizzyM]

I think it is very important to have a backup plan too.

I agree. At some point, some applicants need to face reality and come to the realization that a career in medicine is not a realistic and achievable goal.

 

[retrofusion720]

all props to you. If I were younger, I would probably feel a bit more optimistic like you were. Good luck to you!

 

[M&L]

all props to you. If I were younger, I would probably feel a bit more optimistic like you were. Good luck to you!

well, i do not know what your situation is, but i am a rising M2, and i am 34. It was hard for me to not think that i might be too old to start all this "madness". However, i read somewhere "you are gonna be 40 anyway. So, would you rather be a 40 year old doctor, or 40 year old someone-else?". And i decided that i do. But it IS different for everyone. I just really want people to be more open minded about the age as well.

 

[mblumes]

well, i do not know what your situation is, but i am a rising M2, and i am 34. It was hard for me to not think that i might be too old to start all this "madness". However, i read somewhere "you are gonna be 40 anyway. So, would you rather be a 40 year old doctor, or 40 year old someone-else?". And i decided that i do. But it IS different for everyone. I just really want people to be more open minded about the age as well.

Man, that's so encouraging. I'm 31. I want so bad to be a doctor. I have absolutely NOTHING required for a med school app except a Bachelor's without pre-reqs (Computer Science degree, 3.25 overall). I could take the easy path and just continue doing programming and probably make a decent living and do something I have 0 passion for or interest in. Or, I could start from scratch basically and give it a go for the job of my dreams.

I don't want to give up. I really don't. But I don't know where to start either. Especially with the national health crisis going on, it seems there is nothing I can do right now to help my chances. Can't shadow or do clinical volunteering as far as I know, missed the deadline to apply so it's going to be a while before I can start taking classes... ugh. I just don't know. I need help.

Regardless, this thread gives me a glimmer of hope. Thank you to the OP and everyone who contributed.

 

[M&L]

Man, that's so encouraging. I'm 31. I want so bad to be a doctor. I have absolutely NOTHING required for a med school app except a Bachelor's without pre-reqs (Computer Science degree, 3.25 overall). I could take the easy path and just continue doing programming and probably make a decent living and do something I have 0 passion for or interest in. Or, I could start from scratch basically and give it a go for the job of my dreams.

I don't want to give up. I really don't. But I don't know where to start either. Especially with the national health crisis going on, it seems there is nothing I can do right now to help my chances. Can't shadow or do clinical volunteering as far as I know, missed the deadline to apply so it's going to be a while before I can start taking classes... ugh. I just don't know. I need help.

Regardless, this thread gives me a glimmer of hope. Thank you to the OP and everyone who contributed.

you are exactly where i started - my first degree was in Finance.

well, start from sitting down and making a list of everything you need:
1)prerequisites
2)non clinical volunteering
3) clinical exposure
4) research (desired, but not required for some schools).

Then, think - which one of these things can you do now? Prereqs - definitely can start on these. There is also edx.org - they post free courses online from incredible schools like harvard, MIT (i took chemistry from harvard with them and biology in MIT). It is a non-profit effort, and while they will not directly fullfill prerequisite requirements, they give a great deep insight, and a great way to prep for the courses in real life.
Also, you can do regular volunteering, - local food banks come to mind. Also, you can volunteering virtually - look into that. You can also start researching various research experiences, - google what kind of research activities you can do remotely, look into NIH, and other organization that do research who need programmers.

Basically, even though you might feel hopeless right now because of shutdown, this might actually be a blessing, use this time to make a plan (timeline), and regroup. If you want help, just PM me. I feel like you just do not know where to start, you need a plan.

 

[deleted966164]

I did have a backup plan though, - if i did not get in that year, i would've gone PhD in Biochemistry or math. My math professor encouraged me to do PhD in applied mathematics, and i was thinking about coming up with a project that blends Biochemistry and Applied mathematics (modeling, for example). I think it is very important to have a backup plan too.

Regarding math... It has been easier to get int med school than getting a satisfying job in math, assuming you wanted to do academia...

 

[M&L]

Regarding math... It has been easier to get int med school than getting a satisfying job in math, assuming you wanted to do academia...

maybe. Easier if you do applied mathematics though and if you are a chemist at the same time. I could either do academia stuff, or go work for engineering firms, or go to big pharm. There is also a niche in biomedical devices, for example, or drug manufacturing if you are a chemist with biochemistry specialization and a mathematician. Of course i wanted to be a doctor more than any of that. I always loved teaching though, so i definitely would have done teaching at least part time.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

Nothing wrong with having hope... but still prolly good to have a back up plan unless you don't mind being the 40 year old MS-1 who got in on his 14th cycle

 

[cyanide12345678]

Man, that's so encouraging. I'm 31. I want so bad to be a doctor. I have absolutely NOTHING required for a med school app except a Bachelor's without pre-reqs (Computer Science degree, 3.25 overall). I could take the easy path and just continue doing programming and probably make a decent living and do something I have 0 passion for or interest in. Or, I could start from scratch basically and give it a go for the job of my dreams.

I don't want to give up. I really don't. But I don't know where to start either. Especially with the national health crisis going on, it seems there is nothing I can do right now to help my chances. Can't shadow or do clinical volunteering as far as I know, missed the deadline to apply so it's going to be a while before I can start taking classes... ugh. I just don't know. I need help.

Regardless, this thread gives me a glimmer of hope. Thank you to the OP and everyone who contributed.

How do you know you will like medicine? How do you know it will not become just another job?

Are you confident enough in your decision that you would risk roughly a million dollars for it?

Yes, that's probably what your opportunity cost is going to be assuming an experienced software engineer makes roughly 100k (i know plenty that make a lot more but this is just a conservative estimate).

1 year prereqs, 4 years med school, 3 years minimum residency. That's about 650k opportunity cost (~50k resident salary). Plus another 200k of medical education expense. So 850k will be the cost of your medical education. Now if the markets were generous over the next 8 years and you invested, the opportunity cost may be even more. Probably North of 1M dollars.

What if you end up in medicine, and even before residency is over you're burned out? Most residents are. Most doctors are. It's not as enjoyable sitting in front of a computer typing in notes all day long actually. Or dealing with the google MDs who apparently know more than you. Or dealing with the disrespectful patients? And then there is admin.... The pressure to see more and more patients is such a joy -_-

If i had to do it again, i would have been a software engineer at age 22 instead of an attending at age 30.

Edit: ask yourself these questions - do you really think anybody enjoys working 26-28 hours straight? Do you think anyone enjoys working 80 hours a week? Do you think there is something wrong when half of all physicians except dermatologists seem to say they are burned out? It's just a job after a while - being abused by patients and admin gets pretty old. Ever wondered why physicians have the highest rate of suicide ?

Enjoy software engineering. The grass is just greener on the other side. Until you're on the other side.

 

[M&L]

How do you know you will like medicine? How do you know it will not become just another job?

Are you confident enough in your decision that you would risk roughly a million dollars for it?

Yes, that's probably what your opportunity cost is going to be assuming an experienced software engineer makes roughly 100k (i know plenty that make a lot more but this is just a conservative estimate).

1 year prereqs, 4 years med school, 3 years minimum residency. That's right 600k opportunity cost (~50k resident salary). Plus another 200k of medical education expense. So 800k will be the cost of you medical education. Now if the markets were generous over the next 8 years and you invested, the opportunity cost may be even more.

What if you end up in medicine, and even before residency is over you're burned out? Most residents are. Most doctors are. It's not as enjoyable sitting in front of a computer typing in notes all day long actually. Or dealing with the google MDs who apparently know more than you. Or dealing with the disrespectful patients? And then there is admin.... The pressure to see more and more patients is such a joy -_-

If i had to do it again, i would have been a software engineer at age 22 instead of an attending at age 30.

thank you for posting this. I am so glad you did.
Also, - it is usually about 1.5-2 years of prereqs now, because of general chemistry plus organic plus biochemistry sequence, so it is even worse.

It is a hard decision. I am sure this is what i want to do because in the army i was a medical provider in a psychiatric ward and addiction treatment facility. I have seen and felt things that i can never talk about (due to privacy reasons) that scarred me for a long time. Working there was the best and worst experience of my life. And then i rotated in a pathology lab... In the TV shows pathology is portrayed as this fabulous shiny place, in reality it is nothing like that. But i loved every moment (every weird gross moment of it ). My mom says i am crazy that i want to be a pathologist... but I love it, and i enjoyed the experiences i had. However, i might still get the burn out and frustration that comes with these jobs. Absolutely. As a mental health professional i am sort of expecting it. And that is even though i am SURE i want to do it, because i WAS exposed to very difficult and traumatic things as a medical provider. But what about people who werent? There is a reason they want people to go volunteer. It is CRUCIAL to see what is out there, and experience it. This is why I encourage my friends who think they want to be doctors to go to "non-fabulous" places, where they will be challenged in every possible way. and THEN decide if this is still what they want to do.

 

[cyanide12345678]

thank you for posting this. I am so glad you did.
Also, - it is usually about 1.5-2 years of prereqs now, because of general chemistry plus organic plus biochemistry sequence, so it is even worse.

It is a hard decision. I am sure this is what i want to do because in the army i was a medical provider in a psychiatric ward and addiction treatment facility. I have seen and felt things that i can never talk about (due to privacy reasons) that scarred me for a long time. Working there was the best and worst experience of my life. And then i rotated in a pathology lab... In the TV shows pathology is portrayed as this fabulous shiny place, in reality it is nothing like that. But i loved every moment (every weird gross moment of it ). My mom says i am crazy that i want to be a pathologist... but I love it, and i enjoyed the experiences i had. However, i might still get the burn out and frustration that comes with these jobs. Absolutely. As a mental health professional i am sort of expecting it. And that is even though i am SURE i want to do it, because i WAS exposed to very difficult and traumatic things as a medical provider. But what about people who werent? There is a reason they want people to go volunteer. It is CRUCIAL to see what is out there, and experience it. This is why I encourage my friends who think they want to be doctors to go to "non-fabulous" places, where they will be challenged in every possible way. and THEN decide if this is still what they want to do.

Great decision on pathology. The biggest cause of burn out is the patient itself. You avoid that by going into pathology. Good luck.

 

[M&L]

Great decision on pathology. The biggest cause of burn out is the patient itself. You avoid that by going into pathology. Good luck.

are you being sarcastic or serious? i apologize for asking, it is just that sarcasm does not reflect well through messages.

 

[cyanide12345678]

are you being sarcastic or serious? i apologize for asking, it is just that sarcasm does not reflect well through messages.

Serious. Pathologists are happier than most others.

Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[M&L]

Serious. Pathologists are happier than most others.

Medscape: Medscape Access

yeah i honestly havent met a pathologist who would be bitter and hated their career. Their particular jobs - sometimes. But not career.
I want to do pathology because i really like it though. For example, i like to look at histology slides, - i can do it for hours. I feel like i see the whole world behind the slides (i know it sounds naive, but trust me, - i am old and bitter, so it is true). I love autopsies, i love grossing. I even like the smell of pathology lab (and this is why my mother says that i am crazy). It is just my place. You know how some surgeons speak about OR? Like this is the only place they want to be at? this is how i feel. I did promise myself to be very open minded though, I made a list of every specialty i am even remotely considering exploring, and i am shadowing and researching them. That being said, the more i see other specialties, the more i miss pathology. I feel like the attitude towards diseases and patients is profoundly different between pathologists and regular physicians.