New car

[GravelRider]

Call it for what it is:

Government funded = taxpayer money

Ok? Is that bad or good in your eyes? I don’t really follow your line of thinking. You wouldn’t ever consider an EV out of principle that there were some federal and state incentives to develop them? What other federally funded or incentivized industries do you boycott?

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[Mikkel]

Isn't oil subsidized as well...?

If it is, how to do I get the free $7500 rebate when I buy my sports car?

 

[dhb]

led by a coked out wack job

A wack job that single handedly beat NASA and the ESA...

 

[Mikkel]

Ok? Is that bad or good in your eyes? I don’t really follow your line of thinking. You wouldn’t ever consider an EV out of principle that there were some federal and state incentives to develop them? What other federally funded or incentivized industries do you boycott?

I have a problem with taxpayers subsidizing the purchases of luxury electric cars, especially when the benefits went mostly to the very affluent.

 

[GravelRider]

I have a problem with taxpayers subsidizing the purchases of luxury electric cars, especially when the benefits went mostly to the very affluent.

Oh, so you were against the recent Republican tax bill?

 

[Mikkel]

Oh, so you were against the recent Republican tax bill?

Yeah, I thought it didn't go far enough.

 

[dchz]

Oh, so you were against the recent Republican tax bill?

Hahaha the problem is that we're trying to logic with someone who clearly has no line of logic.

Clearly his original intent to start this thread is to talk about how cash strapped he is and how he cannot afford any fancy fast cars.

Clearly it's totally ok if the car manufacturers take the subsidy and don't pass it to the consumers. But if they do then he's against it in principle.

What in his replies in this thread makes you think he actually gave this more thought than the flashing headlines that he reads in an attempt to make himself feel informed?

 

[GravelRider]

Yeah, I thought it didn't go far enough.

Ok. My suggestion is the Corvette with a “Lock Her Up” bumper sticker on the back left and a “Don’t Tread on Me” sticker on the back right.

 

[dchz]

Sound, experience, balance, and fun. All way before even considering drifting.

Have you experienced a Tesla?

If yes what, besides the sound, is not fun?

If no, don't you think you're talking about something in which you're totally ignorant?

 

[Mikkel]

Ok. My suggestion is the Corvette with a “Lock Her Up” bumper sticker on the back left and a “Don’t Tread on Me” sticker on the back right.

Nobody is above the law.... Except Hillary Clinton and 23,000,000 illegal aliens.

 

[Mikkel]

Hahaha the problem is that we're trying to logic with someone who clearly has no line of logic.

Clearly his original intent to start this thread is to talk about how cash strapped he is and how he cannot afford any fancy fast cars.

Clearly it's totally ok if the car manufacturers take the subsidy and don't pass it to the consumers. But if they do then he's against it in principle.

What in his replies in this thread makes you think he actually gave this more thought than the flashing headlines that he reads in an attempt to make himself feel informed?

No, you are arguing that I'm a hypocrite because I support cutting taxes which gives relief to taxpayers who disproportionately pay the majority of income taxes but I don't support government redistribution that benefits affluent Tesla owners so that they can more easily attain a smug sense of self satisfaction that they're saving the planet, when in reality they're doing jack.

 

[dhb]

Hydrogen cars are the most idiotic idea ever: how do they plan to avoid any leak ever? H bombs speeding down the roads it not something i look foward to.

Ps: how do you produce H2 by the way...?

 

[pgg]

You act like manufacturing and mining materials for batteries is not bad for the environment, or that charging via a fossil-fuel heavy generation is not hypocritical.

Hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go.

Until that becomes mainstream, I'm sticking with the infernal combustion engine.

a) fuel cells are a dead end
b) the vast majority of commercial hydrogen comes from natural gas (electrolysis is far more expensive)

 

[pgg]

I'd be worried my penis would shrink just from test driving any one of those cars.

You could always buy another gun to compensate. If that's still allowed in California.

 

[deleted162650]

You could always buy another gun to compensate. If that's still allowed in California.

Yes, but they've made it impossible to buy ammo.

 

[pgg]

Hydrogen cars are the most idiotic idea ever: how do they plan to avoid any leak ever? H bombs speeding down the roads it not something i look foward to.

Fuel cell cars are stupid, but they're not dangerous. Hydrogen embrittlement is a solved problem. H2 that leaks from a tank dissipates straight up into the air and goes away rapidly. Your argument better suits gasoline. How often do gas-powered cars explode or burst into flames?

 

[Shufflin]

Knew a guy who set up cars for car shows. He said he was shocked how many times a brand new ford or chevy was broken on arrival. Supports my belief in the mnemonic FORD = found on the road dead, or fix it or repair it daily. I'll never buy an American car.

 

[Mikkel]

Knew a guy who set up cars for car shows. He said he was shocked how many times a brand new ford or chevy was broken on arrival. Supports my belief in the mnemonic FORD = found on the road dead, or fix it or repair it daily. I'll never buy an American car.

I feel like reliability is 50% engineering, 30% production line quality, and 20% part/component quality.

American manufacturers have been cutting all of those things, seeing how much they can get away with until people stop buying.

I never bought American before because I knew the trajectory was always to lower quality. GM was always the worst (I don't know about past Corvettes, but owners say it's reliable for 20k miles, which doesn't mean anything).

I think GM has the biggest opportunity with the new Corvette to bring in many new young owners. Will they squander this opportunity? I hope not... I hope they are giving this their best engineering, their best labor (hiring more for the bowling green facility so they're not short and cutting corners, and best component quality.

 

[deleted50478]

A wack job that single handedly beat NASA and the ESA...

Single handedly

 

[GravelRider]

Knew a guy who set up cars for car shows. He said he was shocked how many times a brand new ford or chevy was broken on arrival. Supports my belief in the mnemonic FORD = found on the road dead, or fix it or repair it daily. I'll never buy an American car.

Once you go Asian, you never go back...to other car manufacturers.

 

[deleted162650]

Once you go Asian, you never go back...to other car manufacturers.

When you pull into the garage, does the garage say "Is it in yet?"

 

[Mikkel]

When you pull into the garage, does the garage say "Is it in yet?"

 

[Shufflin]

Once you go Asian, you never go back...to other car manufacturers.

I wish there was some sort of Asian Lamborghini...

 

[Shufflin]

I've got my eyes on the Rimac actually.... but with that kind of money I'd rather invest it than spend on a super luxury vehicle.

 

[GravelRider]

I wish there was some sort of Asian Lamborghini...

Actually, the Acura NSX always intrigued me if I had $200k lying around to spend on a car.

 

[blockstar]

In the market for new car. What's your pick?

C8 Corvette

Ford Shelby GT 500

Toyota Supra

Lexus LC500

Currently deciding between the exact same cars minus the mustang and subbing in the ftype! new C8 looks incredible i just didnt fit well in old one at 6’2 220. i heard the lc is more of a luxury type vehicle so might fit better.

 

[Mikkel]

Currently deciding between the exact same cars minus the mustang and subbing in the ftype! new C8 looks incredible i just didnt fit well in old one at 6’2 220. i heard the lc is more of a luxury type vehicle so might fit better.

Be careful with Jaguar. British cars are notorious for unreliability, and they were acquired by Tata the Indian car company which are also known for producing low quality economy cars.

 

[Mikkel]

I wish there was some sort of Asian Lamborghini...

Toyota could have been where people are talking about Corvette C8 now, but they went ultra conservative and probably won't get much marketshare and probably give up again.

Acura could have done it but they went too expensive and priced themselves out.

 

[Mikkel]

Too bad for all the $TSLA owners here, looks like dismal outlook despite selling tons of cars. Market is drying up, and the cars are already too expensive for mainstream consumers. What happened to the $30k everyman sedan?

 

[Ronin786]

Tesla drivers are like vegans. They can't help but let you know that they drive a Tesla and hate on you for driving anything but a Tesla.

 

[GravelRider]

Toyota could have been where people are talking about Corvette C8 now, but they went ultra conservative and probably won't get much marketshare and probably give up again.

Acura could have done it but they went too expensive and priced themselves out.

Toyota being conservative is all about market share. High performance cars are low volume sellers. How many RAV4s do you see compared to Corvettes? The Supra was never meant to be a big volume seller. That’s also why they partnered with BMW to make it.

Acura is actually priced very competitively. The NSX is a bargain for what it is. It doesn’t sell well because it’s still “just a Honda” and when you’re spending that kind of money, the badge on the hood matters. It’s also why Kia Stingers and the new Genesis line will never sell all that well.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

yes, they go fast but aside from being a status symbol, why not buy a leaf or a prius?

Well, you literally just stated one of the reasons. The performance of a leaf or Prius is not anywhere comparable to a Tesla. Teslas are popular bc they are non ICE, electric, high performance, vehicles that are actually afforadable. There's this perception that they're only for the rich but you can literally buy a model 3 right now for the same cost of various models of Camry's or Accords, when you consider the rebates and all the money you save on gas. Due to special rate plans, my electricity bill has not gone up at all with my tesla and I charge at home every night.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Tesla drivers are like vegans. They can't help but let you know that they drive a Tesla and hate on you for driving anything but a Tesla.

lol imagine going thru life being this sensitive

 

[dchz]

Tesla drivers are like vegans. They can't help but let you know that they drive a Tesla and hate on you for driving anything but a Tesla.

well i get a ton of B12, so it's really more like a crossfitter...

How do you know if that guy does crossfit?
Oh believe me, he'll tell you if he does crossfit. don't even need to ask...

 

[nimbus]

I wish there was some sort of Asian Lamborghini...

GTR is closest you’ll get. But it’s heavy and front engine.

 

[nimbus]

A lot of well spec’d cars aren’t that great to drive. Teslas and Porsches are which is why there are so many fanatics. They give unique, distinctive high quality experiences. If the new C8 feels nearly as good as its specs it’ll be unbeatable.

 

[deleted162650]

I wish there was some sort of Asian Lamborghini...

A Ramborghini?

 

[Aether2000]

 

[pgg]

Actually, the Acura NSX always intrigued me if I had $200k lying around to spend on a car.

Back in the late 90s when they were only $80-90K I was going to buy one. What made it so amazing was that it was an exotic sports car that could actually be driven every day. It didn't break down every 200 miles like Italian trash.

 

[deleted50478]

Once you go Asian, you never go back...to other car manufacturers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/clark.com/cars/most-reliable-cars-200000-miles/amp/

 

[dchz]

I donate heavily to ASAPAC, and participate actively in its efforts.

No, you are arguing that I'm a hypocrite because I support cutting taxes which gives relief to taxpayers who disproportionately pay the majority of income taxes but I don't support government redistribution that benefits affluent Tesla owners so that they can more easily attain a smug sense of self satisfaction that they're saving the planet, when in reality they're doing jack.

I have a problem with taxpayers subsidizing the purchases of luxury electric cars, especially when the benefits went mostly to the very affluent.

You know. This is a perfect example of just screaming past someone on the internet.

I literally wrote out the whole concept of externalities and the necessary role in balancing the externality of environmental pollution so that a better environment will benefits EVERYONE.

You clearly read that post because you quoted it in your first response. But instead of engaging in an intellectual conversation on why you disagree, you ignore everything and then just state again of how you believe that the tax credit is only benefiting the super rich....

Something makes me think you're only creating this thread to circle jerk and reinforce your ignorant views and not to actually discuss good options for a new car.... So i'm going to stop trying to engage you in an intellectual exchange.

 

[deleted162650]

Battery technology is the current rate limiting step with EV's. The energy density of lithium ion batteries just isn't that great i.e. diesel is 27x more energy dense than Li-Ion batteries.

The short term solution would be to have battery stations instead of recharging stations. Pull in - battery slides out - new battery slides in - off you go in the same 90s it would have taken to fill up a gas tank.

On a conceptual level, I have a hard time with the idea that burning fossil fuels in a power plant to generate electricity, transport it great distances, charge up a not that efficient battery, and then discharge that battery to make your car go is exponentially more efficient than just burning the fossil fuel in the car directly.

I don't hate on Tesla, or any other EV's, they just don't excite me. Maybe one day someone will come out with one that I like and that will do what I need it to.

 

[okayplayer]

One of the IR or interventional cardiology guys at my hospital drives
this exact car in matte gray. It is a beautiful car.

Definitely stands out when everyone else in the physician lot has Tundras and Highlanders.

 

[Mikkel]

You know. This is a perfect example of just screaming past someone on the internet.

I literally wrote out the whole concept of externalities and the necessary role in balancing the externality of environmental pollution so that a better environment will benefits EVERYONE.

You clearly read that post because you quoted it in your first response. But instead of engaging in an intellectual conversation on why you disagree, you ignore everything and then just state again of how you believe that the tax credit is only benefiting the super rich....

Something makes me think you're only creating this thread to circle jerk and reinforce your ignorant views and not to actually discuss good options for a new car.... So i'm going to stop trying to engage you in an intellectual exchange.

You're calling my use of a gas powered car to drive to the hospital and to my house a negative externality that needs to be punished with taxation and redistribution to affluent owners of electric cars who have the means to purchase these cars without my tax money.

If I purchased a car and garaged it but drive it less than 1000 miles per year, there's enough externality there that justifies you taking my money?

Do you realize how absurd it sounds when you say you're justified in taking my money to finance your lifestyle?

Why don't you go around town taking candy from babies because you want to minimize the negative externality of childhood obesity on your health insurance premiums? I bet it's because you don't want to eat the candy you confiscate. But taking other people's money? You're on top of that like Norm MacDonald on the ladies.

 

[GravelRider]

You're calling my use of a gas powered car to drive to the hospital and to my house a negative externality that needs to be punished with taxation and redistribution to affluent owners of electric cars who have the means to purchase these cars without my tax money.

If I purchased a car and garaged it but drive it less than 1000 miles per year, there's enough externality there that justifies you taking my money?

Do you realize how absurd it sounds when you say you're justified in taking my money to finance your lifestyle?

Why don't you go around town taking candy from babies because you want to minimize the negative externality of childhood obesity on your health insurance premiums? I bet it's because you don't want to eat the candy you confiscate. But taking other people's money? You're on top of that like Norm MacDonald on the ladies.

You can buy a $30k Nissan Leaf and use the tax credit to bring one of the cheapest cars to own on the market to below $25k or even less depending on your state. Maybe it’s not a “cool” car, but middle class people who are smart with their finances can certainly take advantage of the tax credit.

 

[agammaglobulin]

For a progressive crowd, the conversation here is shockingly backwards. Don't understand why a bunch of highly educated people of science are still talking about internal combustion engines when the future is so affordable to them....

It's almost like yall are willingly ignorant ...

Reasons for not wanting a Tesla:
(1) No soul to the car. Step on the peddle, yeah it has great torque, but it's silent. It's not the same as hearing the engine, even if it's faster. Imagine something like Formula 1 or NASCAR being silent...
(2) Model 3 got downgraded by Consumer Reports. I'd stick to the Model S or X if buying (not leasing).
(3) Model 3 screen is in the center of the car and has terrible glare when the sun is out.
(4) No one knows how to put the fires out when/if auto driving crashes.

 

[Mikkel]

You can buy a $30k Nissan Leaf and use the tax credit to bring one of the cheapest cars to own on the market to below $25k or even less depending on your state. Maybe it’s not a “cool” car, but middle class people who are smart with their finances can certainly take advantage of the tax credit.

You would think that the Leaf would be such a hot commodity, especially at under $25k, it would be selling like hotcakes especially for middle class Americans. It's not though, middle class Americans are not buying it.

India's pollution problem is atrocious. Why isn't India's entire auto inventory just electric? They actually have pollution problems that could benefit from getting rid of diesel vehicles.

 

[Mikkel]

Reasons for not wanting a Tesla:
(1) No soul to the car. Step on the peddle, yeah it has great torque, but it's silent. It's not the same as hearing the engine, even if it's faster. Imagine Formula 1 or NASCAR being silent...
(2) Model 3 got downgraded by Consumer Reports. I'd stick to the Model S or X.
(3) Model 3 screen is in the center of the car and has terrible glare when the sun is out.
(4) No one knows how to put the fires out when/if auto driving crashes.

Tesla also decided they didn't need automotive grade displays. Then their customers wonder why their screens are yellowing.

 

[GravelRider]

You would think that the Leaf would be such a hot commodity, especially at under $25k, it would be selling like hotcakes especially for middle class Americans. It's not though, middle class Americans are not buying it.

India's pollution problem is atrocious. Why isn't India's entire auto inventory just electric? They actually have pollution problems that could benefit from getting rid of diesel vehicles.

Middle class Americans aren’t buying it because they are dumb. They take on expensive debt to “buy” $60k pickup trucks they can’t afford. The point is that tax credit is there for smart middle class people who want to be good with their finances.

 

[deleted162650]

They take on expensive debt to “buy” $60k pickup trucks they can’t afford.

2 of the big 3 offer 0% 5-6 year financing on pickups pretty regularly.