New Charting Outcomes Shows Increased Psychiatry Competitiveness

[waddledees]

This year's match was tough. The new Charting Outcomes has evidence to support that. Applicants should apply more broadly than ever to avoid SOAPing.

Number of US seniors per position
2018: 0.74
2016: 0.67

US MD Match rate
2018: 84%
2016: 90%
2014: 96%
2011: 96%
2009: 94%

Osteopathic match rate
2018: 72%
2016: 77%

US IMG match rate
2018: 30%
2016: 32%
2013: 44%

nonUS IMG match rate
2018: 35%
2016: 29%
2013: 37%

Step 1 for psychiatry
2018: 226 (Average matched 2018 US MD Step 1: 233)*
2016: 224
2014: 220
2011: 214
2009: 216

Step scores have increased, but are still below the average for all applicants.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

*Edit: Thanks Drrrrrr. Celty

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Don't panic everyone, we have now gone from super not competitive to mostly not competitive. 0.67 to 0.74 US seniors per slot is still close to the bottom of competitiveness.

 

[Shufflin]

I actually say that 0.74, whatever its true significance, shows that Psychiatry is really more competitive that first glance. According to this metric, Psychiatry is more competitive than Anesthesiology and Radiology, and right around that of Emergency Medicine, which was unheard of 10 years ago.

Here are all the other specialties that come close or fall below for # of US Seniors Per Position:

Pediatrics 0.62
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation 0.65
Pathology 0.37
Neurology 0.57
Internal Medicine 0.43
Diagnostic Radiology 0.70
Emergency Medicine 0.77
Family Medicine 0.45
Anesthesiology 0.61
Child Neurology 0.61

 

[aim-agm]

USMD and USDO acceptance rates drop by 6% each, but US IMG remains stable and nonUS IMG goes UP by 6%? Somethings very odd there

 

[yanks26dmb]

USMD and USDO acceptance rates drop by 6% each, but US IMG remains stable and nonUS IMG goes UP by 6%? Somethings very odd there

Think this is an anomaly of a year?

I mean...no pd would prefer non us img over us md, would they? Hell, even if they were a pure img sweat shop, wouldn't they still prefer usimg?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Just wanted to correct, the average matched MD had a 233. The average USMLE step 1 for 2018 is still 228 - 229.

 

[justfolks]

Think this is an anomaly of a year?

I mean...no pd would prefer non us img over us md, would they? Hell, even if they were a pure img sweat shop, wouldn't they still prefer usimg?

Just a patient, but my psychiatrist, who is a graduate of, and faculty at, one of the big NYC programs, started out as a non-US IMG. There are non-US IMGs, and then there are non-US IMGs.

 

[deleted736562]

USMD and USDO acceptance rates drop by 6% each, but US IMG remains stable and nonUS IMG goes UP by 6%? Somethings very odd there

The IMGs (US and non-US) stayed stable. Probably the programs that have learned to recruit IMGs haven't yet switched and started getting US graduates or most likely US graduates simply avoid those programs from the get go. Whereas competition for programs that usually avoid IMGs is getting more fierce among US graduates.

I'm assuming though these are all based on first choice. Otherwise it can simply mean that more people are putting psychiatry as a backup.

 

[Taddy Mason]

The IMGs (US and non-US) stayed stable. Probably the programs that have learned to recruit IMGs haven't yet switched and started getting US graduates or most likely US graduates simply avoid those programs from the get go. Whereas competition for programs that usually avoid IMGs is getting more fierce among US graduates.

I'm assuming though these are all based on first choice. Otherwise it can simply mean that more people are putting psychiatry as a backup.

The number of people applying to psych as a backup has remained pretty stable since the last Charting the Outcomes.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Can anyone help me infer what all of this means for my scenario...

DO student, low 240s step 1 (awaiting step 2 score), ECs relative to psych since day 1 of med school. The only thing I want to do is psychiatry. Do I seriously need to apply to a back up specialty at this point?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

It is very hard to answer your question. I could name two dozen programs you could apply to and you would get almost no interviews. I could also name a dozen that would yield 11 or 12 interviews. The answer to your question really depends on where you apply.

 

[yanks26dmb]

It is very hard to answer your question. I could name two dozen programs you could apply to and you would get almost no interviews. I could also name a dozen that would yield 11 or 12 interviews. The answer to your question really depends on where you apply.

Thanks for the input. Ideally, if it were up to me, I'd stay on the west coast. Next best option would be the southwest. Lower preference for the east coast, and yet still lower preference for the south. I would definitely consider some larger midwest cities however; chicago, indianapolis.

All of that said, I'm willing to go wherever I have to go to become a psychiatrist.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Can anyone help me infer what all of this means for my scenario...

DO student, low 240s step 1 (awaiting step 2 score), ECs relative to psych since day 1 of med school. The only thing I want to do is psychiatry. Do I seriously need to apply to a back up specialty at this point?

The #1 reason for not matching in my experience is applicants thinking they are more competitive than they are.

The result is 500 good applicants applying for the same 400 spots. The 100 that didn’t match could have gotten 1 of 300 other spots, but they didn’t think they needed safety schools.

Obviously the above numbers are guesstimates, but you get the point.

West coast is the most competitive region by far.

 

[yanks26dmb]

The #1 reason for not matching in my experience is applicants thinking they are more competitive than they are.

The result is 500 good applicants applying for the same 400 spots. The 100 that didn’t match could have gotten 1 of 300 other spots, but they didn’t think they needed safety schools.

Obviously the above numbers are guesstimates, but you get the point.

West coast is the most competitive region by far.

How does an applicant know what a "safety" school is? Obviously, UCSF, Harvard, etc. are going to be very competitive. But what constitutes a safety?

 

[SmallBird]

Think this is an anomaly of a year?

I mean...no pd would prefer non us img over us md, would they? Hell, even if they were a pure img sweat shop, wouldn't they still prefer usimg?

A US MD is going to require less paperwork and may have easier to assess medical school credentials but other than that many PDs would want the best candidates and would take a strong IMG applicant over a mediocre US MD.

 

[st2205]

A US MD is going to require less paperwork and may have easier to assess medical school credentials but other than that many PDs would want the best candidates and would take a strong IMG applicant over a mediocre US MD.

Depends on the program.

 

[Mad Jack]

The #1 reason for not matching in my experience is applicants thinking they are more competitive than they are.

The result is 500 good applicants applying for the same 400 spots. The 100 that didn’t match could have gotten 1 of 300 other spots, but they didn’t think they needed safety schools.

Obviously the above numbers are guesstimates, but you get the point.

West coast is the most competitive region by far.

The Northeast is also much more hot than previous years. Many former IMG-only programs have flipped to almost entirely US MD or DO.

 

[Geraltofrivia]

Well this terrifies me as a DO getting ready to reapply for psychiatry. Ugh. Any pointers?

 

[Mad Jack]

What I find most interesting is that these reports bear out what we have said for years- psych is less about numbers than other specialties. Look at the percent of psych applicants that went unmatched with a 240+ and compare it to any other specialty. Who psych turns away is as telling as who it takes in.

 

[TexasPhysician]

How does an applicant know what a "safety" school is? Obviously, UCSF, Harvard, etc. are going to be very competitive. But what constitutes a safety?

That is part of the problem. Most advisors don’t keep up with competitiveness to give good advise and there isn’t an accurate database.

A lot of legwork is needed by the applicant by reviewing potential program’s websites, geographic trends, SDN, past applicants, etc.

 

[twospadz]

Think this is an anomaly of a year?

I mean...no pd would prefer non us img over us md, would they? Hell, even if they were a pure img sweat shop, wouldn't they still prefer usimg?

A lot of psych programs interview and take only non-US IMGs. One program in particular is Rutgers Newark. I also know a NY program who prematched for psych this year and their whole first class is US-IMGs and non-US Imgs. Basically, many of the programs that were taking only IMGs before, have not changed their selection. I think that is why the number for IMGs is stable.

 

[twospadz]

Also, there is a reason why certain programs prefer non-US IMGs like Rutgers Newark. Basically that program states in the contract that they have to work after residency for a certain number of years in the Newark area. This allows them to retain the psychiatrists they train. This is what I heard. If its not true, then I am certain Rutgers Newark gives these IMGs work visas. After graduation, when their visa is up, Newark offers them another work visa that is contingent on them staying and working in the Newark area. If they dont have a work visa, then they have to go back to their country. This was told to me by a med student who goes to the school.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

A lot of psych programs interview and take only non-US IMGs. One program in particular is Rutgers Newark. I also know a NY program who prematched for psych this year and their whole first class is US-IMGs and non-US Imgs. Basically, many of the programs that were taking only IMGs before, have not changed their selection. I think that is why the number for IMGs is stable.

A program that prematches essentially precludes themselves from taking US seniors, because they can only go outside the Match.

Also, there is a reason why certain programs prefer non-US IMGs like Rutgers Newark. Basically that program states in the contract that they have to work after residency for a certain number of years in the Newark area. This allows them to retain the psychiatrists they train. This is what I heard. If its not true, then I am certain Rutgers Newark gives these IMGs work visas. After graduation, when their visa is up, Newark offers them another work visa that is contingent on them staying and working in the Newark area. If they dont have a work visa, then they have to go back to their country. This was told to me by a med student who goes to the school.

This sounds like someone's distorted misperception of J1-waivered employment. I really doubt the legality of making their training visas contingent on future employment. Though it is true that places like Newark (and frankly most other urban public hospitals) qualify easily to hire people off of training visas. (Although with the current administration's f'd-up views of immigrants, who knows...)

 

[uname943]

A lot of psych programs interview and take only non-US IMGs. One program in particular is Rutgers Newark.

Eh? They have US-IMGs, DOs, and a US MD.

Rutgers New Jersey Medical School

 

[Mad Jack]

A lot of psych programs interview and take only non-US IMGs. One program in particular is Rutgers Newark. I also know a NY program who prematched for psych this year and their whole first class is US-IMGs and non-US Imgs. Basically, many of the programs that were taking only IMGs before, have not changed their selection. I think that is why the number for IMGs is stable.

Prematch programs aren't in the NRMP stats since the all-in policy

 

[Mad Jack]

Eh? They have US-IMGs, DOs, and a US MD.

Rutgers New Jersey Medical School

I also know DOs they interviewed

 

[Mad Jack]

Also, there is a reason why certain programs prefer non-US IMGs like Rutgers Newark. Basically that program states in the contract that they have to work after residency for a certain number of years in the Newark area. This allows them to retain the psychiatrists they train. This is what I heard. If its not true, then I am certain Rutgers Newark gives these IMGs work visas. After graduation, when their visa is up, Newark offers them another work visa that is contingent on them staying and working in the Newark area. If they dont have a work visa, then they have to go back to their country. This was told to me by a med student who goes to the school.

Literally nonsense. The NRMP requires all contacts to be equal for all residents regardless of specialty or pedigree per my understanding

 

[MedMan80]

Also, there is a reason why certain programs prefer non-US IMGs like Rutgers Newark. Basically that program states in the contract that they have to work after residency for a certain number of years in the Newark area. This allows them to retain the psychiatrists they train. This is what I heard. If its not true, then I am certain Rutgers Newark gives these IMGs work visas. After graduation, when their visa is up, Newark offers them another work visa that is contingent on them staying and working in the Newark area. If they dont have a work visa, then they have to go back to their country. This was told to me by a med student who goes to the school.

Nonsense, complete lie. The program was IMG favored, but as you can see the last few years they attracted more US-IMG and US-MD..which i think highlights the increasing competitiveness of psych.

 

[libertyyne]

are US grads even applying to the same programs as IMGs and FMGs. IMGS have a 12 point lower average step score compared to USMDs.

 

[waddledees]

How does an applicant know what a "safety" school is? Obviously, UCSF, Harvard, etc. are going to be very competitive. But what constitutes a safety?

Ask your school adviser. They know your whole application, how you present in person, and how you compare overall with previous applicants from your school. If they are involved in your school's psych residency, they will likely know the what kind of applicants get near the top (and bottom) of their rank list.

If you actually a weak applicant and really willing to go anywhere, then apply to all the places people don't want to go to. Places on probation. Programs in the middle of nowhere. Brand new programs. There was a thread a month or so ago with all the new accredited programs. There were many new programs, especially in Florida.