New Club: 'Just Average' Applicants (JAAC)

[Irene Adler]

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Members don't see this ad.

mattorama: thank you, you have just described the purpose of this club perfectly. I hereby dub thee honorary knight of the OCS (Order of Common Sense) for valor under fire.

momof2: alas, one of the goals of this club is to avoid excluding people if possible. Therefore, we welcome our probationary members with open arms.

AvgApplnct: unfortunately, this club is not a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship, and I will not be appointing a Vice President at this time. Your revolutionary and traitorous remark has been noted and my secret police will be watching you. Also, you are appointed Member #19, JAAC. 😉 And see above remarks about changing our eligibility rules.

premyo2002: You are appointed Member #18, JAAC, provided your MCAT scores prove to be 'average' (Go premyo2002! kick that MCATs butt!)

 

[umass rower]

I got a 33, but only because I did well on the non-science section--verbal. My science GPA is a 3.4. The research I'm doing now has nothing to do with anything related to medicine, although it is very interesting and a lot of fun (I'm researching yawning in lizards--great videos from this project!). I'm hoping and praying that my several non-medical ECs will be looked upon favorably. With the newly relaxed standards, I'm hoping I can get into this club. Can I?

**EDIT** I am also a white male, which I think makes me even more average in the applicant pool.

 

[lisa13579]

Exceptions... I have a 29 MCAT, but a a 3.7 GPA (I graduated with a BFA in dance 🙂 ) What do you think?

 

[thackl]

Originally posted by Slickness
Bad day with a 32? That doesn't sound too average to me. I had to work hard for my 29. Sad I know...

Believe me, I think 32 is a great score. I went into it feeling that I only needed a 28 or higher. However, I performed 4pts lower on my best subject area than expected (PhSci-- I'm an engineer). You always want to feel like you did your best and I would have been much more accepting of 3-4pts lower in Bio since I hadn't even taken those courses yet. But it's all good.

Unless you aspire to attend a top 20 school or achieve even loftier goals, such as joining the SMC (SAT/MCAT Correlation) club, anything above 28 is gravy 🙂

Anyway. I am average because I'm older and have children. This means I will not be gunning for AOA or applying to top programs in big cities. Even if I had gotten that 36, I'd be planting my butt in Lubbock, TX Go Red Raiders

 

[Febrifuge]

Originally posted by farrago
Yeah, keep telling yourself that academic mediocrity and, gosh darnit, just wanting to be a doctor to "help people", is treading on some kind of Noble Path, while pursuing your interests, and excelling academically, is only for those obnoxious, evil people that are wastes of a spot in medical school. 🙄

I don't believe anyone said any such thing. Those who are driven to compete and succeed are not evil at all. It's a different kind of motivation, and given the difficulty of getting into and getting through med school, it makes sense that many of those who can, will do so out of a sense of accomplishment, or even healthy competition. I climb rocks, and doing something just because it's hard and you want to prove that you can is something I understand. But the thing is, medicine is more than something difficult to study and impressive to accomplish. It's a profession that serves a particular purpose in the world. Caring about how well we fulfill that purpose is a lot more than just "gosh darnit, wanting to be a doctor." It's also more than wanting to express our success as something measured in GPA and test scores. The only thing that's obnoxious is summarily discounting another person's way of thinking about something we're all undertaking together. It's funny that you should bring it up.

back to farrago
Some people are competitive. Big deal. It's the competitive, driven people that usually get things done. There is nothing shameful in wanting to be the best, and there is nothing wrong with sharing your ambitions with people who will appreciate them.

You know, I totally agree. The only thing that's shameful is stepping into a discussion just to slam people who will someday be your colleagues, because of some perceived insult to your way of thinking, which no one actually came close to making. I would suggest you develop a thicker skin and a sense of professionalism now, because you'll probably need some time to break them in. The ass-kicking seems to come naturally for you, and that's great, but when the time comes, your patients won't care about your GPA and your MCAT score 1% as much as they'll care how well you treat them and make them feel.

 

[Paws]

... The research I'm doing now has nothing to do with anything related to medicine, although it is very interesting and a lot of fun (I'm researching yawning in lizards--great videos from this project!).... [/B]

This is a riot !! I'd like to be doing research like this, and I mean seriously.

I think I agree with everyone's GP kind of thinking. That's me too, just a nice rural FP who loves her patients and has a nice family. What a great life !

 

[umass rower]

GP? FP? What do those stand for?

And the gecko yawns are great, I need to get the pictures and videos online so I can give out links to them. I'm having so much more fun with my research than anyone else I know, makes me kinda feel sorry for people in those "this will look good to med school" projects. All of them are doing drudge work for a prof and a grad student, while this project is all mine!

 

[mattorama]

Yeah! I am now a Knight! Sir mattorama! 🙂

 

[Lux Aeterna]

GP =general practitioner
FP =family practitioner

 

[Paws]

Hey Umass, that's exactly what I was thinking - that the hardcore premeds are doing these rediculously boring or awful "looks good" projects, while you really do like what you're doing.

This is so right on, we should all really do what we love and that will definitely come thru. Like being a dancer ! Excellent gpa there ...

Life feels effortless when you're happy and doing what you like (well, most of the time ! )

 

[Irene Adler]

It is wonderful to hear all of these responses. Keep us posted!

umassrower--I shall add you to the list of probationary members, as you have such an outstanding MCAT. Yawning lizards--I can't wait to hear what the interviewers think about that--It definitely makes you unique.

So, why do lizards yawn, anyways?

Febrifuge--are you applying for membership in the JAAC? Thank you for your post.

Paws--any suggestions for schools to apply to if you want to be a rural doc? That's my plan as well.

lisa13579--As President of JAAC, I hereby use the power vested within me to designate you JAAC Member #19. I have a B.S. in theatre, and a soft spot for performing arts majors.

AverageMan--when you write that essay, please remember that a hard return uses 2 characters. 😉

thackl--even though you are an Engineer, I wouldn't fret about a lower-than-expected PS score--there's a lot of chemistry in there as well.

The JAAC is STILL looking for a good motto. If you can come up with one that exemplifies your pre-med application experience, let me know


"Average and Proud"

Irene Adler
President, JAAC

 

[DrSal]

Hi everybody on JAAC.

Well, my 1 question is how did the people with less than 3.5 GPAs get those higher than 30 MCATs? I'm starting to stress out, yes, too early, (mcats in april '04). I read your thread b/c as much as i aim high always, i tend to fall right into mediocrity.

Good luck to all of you. Check back next year, maybe i'll revive the club or something 😉

 

[stoic]

What's up everyone -

I'd like to apply for probationary membership to the JAAC. Haven't taken the MCAT yet, but my gpa is 3.3 (cum. & sci). This is due to a 2.8 my freshman year before I decided to pursue medicine. I'm starting my junior year in a couple weeks and will take the MCAT this spring. I suppose that if I score above a 30, I'd be willing to give up my membership 😉.

As for a formula for figuring out who can get in, how about allowing 2 MCAT points for ever 1/10 of a GPA below 3.5? Here's how it would work out:

GPA MCAT
3.5 30
3.4 32
3.3 34
3.2 3.6
etc.

What do you guys think?

 

[stoic]

oops... that last set of GPA/MCAT should read "3.2 36"

 

[thackl]

Originally posted by Slickness
Sup my fellow JAACers.
So how many schools are all of you applying to?

One!

 

[Irene Adler]

daveswafford--you are hereby appointed Member#20, pending your MCAT results--Kick MCAT Butt!!!

Slickness--I'm applying to 13 allopathic schools.

 

[Febrifuge]

Irene, I have an undergrad GPA of 3.02, so I'm on track. But I have yet to take the MCAT, and plan to do so in April 2005. There's the little matter of ALL my science pre-reqs. Ahem.

If that's not a barrier to entry, I'd gladly accept provisional or deferred acceptance.

Does volunteering and EMT training make me less average? I'd hate to think my "streed med cred" would cancel out my otherwise thundering averageness.

 

[Irene Adler]

Febrifuge--you are Member #21, pending your MCAT results. Good luck on the science pre-req's. It isn't particularly difficult material, there's just a lot to memorize.

Congratulations!

 

[umass rower]

Originally posted by Irene Adler
So, why do lizards yawn, anyways?

Nobody knows, thats why I'm studying it🙂 .

Seriously though, there are only guesses as to why anything yawns. Humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and fish (yes, even fish, and we have proof) all yawn. Why? The best guess right now is that it is part of a generalized response to stress, and that the stretch aspect of the yawn is the important part, raising heart rate, blood pressure, muscle tension, etc. But that's only a guess, and there haven't been a whole lot of studies on the subject, so there isn't enough evidence to say for sure.

The most common belief about yawning is that its purpose is to take in extra air. This couldn't be the general reason, because fish don't have lungs, and amphibians use a buccal pump to breathe, so they clearly aren't doing it either. Do lizards? Hopefully I'll be able to tell you soon.

Enough about the project though. See how you got me rambling? And you thought it was a simple question....

Anyway, I'm proud to have a provisional membership. It will be added to my sig shortly.

 

[Jasminegab]

I'm what you consider way below average. Although, I do have over 200 hours working as a medical Assistant. Other than that, I meet all the qualification.

I have not taken my MCAT yet.

My current GPA is 2.9 at CC ( I'm starting a new school later this month, so my GPA will drop to 0.0)

I have 3yrs of undergrade work left.

My last SGPA was 2.0 (I'm taking this course over...I insist. This was my first attemp at a science course and by far not thaught by a good instructure, However, it's not up to the instructure to learn the subject.)

My Math GPA was a 4.0 (Basic high school Math, taken over 8yrs ago).

I've never published anything in my life.

And, I have been rejected by the majority of US med school before I could even apply (I will not go into details here).

Despite all this, I continue to keep working towards reaching my dream of becoming a physician someday. No matter how difficult and challening it gets.

Lastly, I'm probably the most discouraged student trying to get into medical school. However, I keep pressing on. I will not let failure hold me down. If you knew me, you would know why. Rather than go into details. Take my word for it. Each and everyone one of you have a better chance of getting into med school than I do. Even if I had a 4.0 GPA, published researcher, with 1000 hours of volunteer work and a 45 on the MCAT, you all would still have a better chance of getting into med school than I do. I've already been told so. No need to try to uplift me. But my faith is in GOD and I keep pressing on. Some of our great leaders were not perfect. Nor am I.

So, Lets show them we can do this and perhaps become some of the best physician out there.

Jasminegab

 

[AvgApplcnt]

Hey JAAC President,

How about a new requirement for your majesty's consideration?
Everybody Avg. Pre-med starts off with a crappy GPA their freshmen year. How about special recognition for those who manage to wreck their GPAs right before they graduate and apply? I had a great GPA until senioritis kicked in.

 

[Irene Adler]

AvgApplcnt--Loyal Subject: I'd say wrecking your GPA right before you apply certainly deserves special consideration and sympathy. Senioritis is a common human ailment. What form of recognition did you have in mind? A special license plate? 😉

Jasminegab--you are Member #22, pending your MCAT results. Good luck and best wishes on your future coursework.

 

[JM.]

I would have joined last year. Good luck guys!

 

[Febrifuge]

Irene, many thanks for the provisional admit. I'll make you proud... or rather, indifferent, I'll be so darned average. 😉

You said you were interested in rural medicine? Check out the University of Minnesota- Duluth Campus, and/or the U of MN- Twin Cities, with focus on the RPAP - the Rural Physician Apprenticeship Program. Basically, they send you out to (usually) a small town for almost your entire second year, where you're under the guidance of the town doc. Board scores for RPAP students are as good as, or better than, scores for those with a "normal" MS-II year, and RPAP people have a mess of experience in rural doctoring. I'm considering it myself.

 

[citygirl]

I think it's great someone started this thread. Quite frankly, most of us fall into the "just average" category. There are always a few superstars who will get accepted everywhere they apply, but the rest of us will have to deal with our fair share of rejection.

Just a warning - the application process does not make you feel good about yourself. For me it started with taking the MCAT twice. While others were getting requests for interviews I was still waiting for my second set of scores from August.

Then there are the rejections, of course. UC Davis sends e-mail rejections. How demeaning is that???!!! "You have mail.............you are a loser."

But, chins up oh ye other average people......I ended up getting accepted to my first and second choice schools.........AND NOWHERE ELSE!

By the way, in reference to previous postings: I did cool, sorta related to medicine research....spent my days squishing up ticks and then doing DNA analysis on their guts to see if they were carrying Lyme disease. I also did O&Ps on elephant seals. Not exactly cutting edge stuff according to some, but I had a great time and learned a lot. That would be the point.

 

[Irene Adler]

Febrifuge--Do you know what the acceptance rate for non-resident applications is at Univ Minn--Duluth? That program sounds really cool.

citygirl--congrats on getting into your first choice. Allow me to display my ignorance and ask what an O & P is?


--Irene Adler
President, JAAC

"Just Doing the Damn Best I Can With the Brains I've Got"

 

[citygirl]

citygirl--congrats on getting into your first choice. Allow me to display my ignorance and ask what an O & P is?

O&P = Ova and Parasites.................in stool specimens.

Just so everyone knows there is hope..........my stats qualify me as an official member of the JAAC and I got into UCSF!!

 

[Irene Adler]

Congrats on getting into UCSF. If I was a California resident, it would be my first choice.

Thanks for the explanation on O & P. I had it confused with H & P and couldn't figure out how you would go about getting a history from a seal.

Good Luck!!!

 

[farrago]

Originally posted by Febrifuge
I don't believe anyone said any such thing.

And I believe otherwise.

Those who are driven to compete and succeed are not evil at all. It's a different kind of motivation, and given the difficulty of getting into and getting through med school, it makes sense that many of those who can, will do so out of a sense of accomplishment, or even healthy competition. I climb rocks, and doing something just because it's hard and you want to prove that you can is something I understand. But the thing is, medicine is more than something difficult to study and impressive to accomplish. It's a profession that serves a particular purpose in the world.

Of course. But it is yet to be determined what exactly motivates most of those who enter the profession. It is my opinion that the general purpose of medicine is best fulfilled by those who have an interest in the basic science underlying disease, and a drive to be the best.

Caring about how well we fulfill that purpose is a lot more than just "gosh darnit, wanting to be a doctor."

What, only the sedate, happily average people care about their patients?

It's also more than wanting to express our success as something measured in GPA and test scores.

The thing is that, while a basic level of academic competence can easily be determined, the same cannot be said of personality and mindset.

The only thing that's obnoxious is summarily discounting another person's way of thinking about something we're all undertaking together. It's funny that you should bring it up.

There is nothing obnoxious in questioning some ridiculous conclusion another person reached, or pointing out the resentment that bubbles up every time a discussion on academic standards comes along.

You know, I totally agree. The only thing that's shameful is stepping into a discussion just to slam people who will someday be your colleagues, because of some perceived insult to your way of thinking, which no one actually came close to making.

Since we'll all be colleagues, I guess I can butt in, eh?

<i>"Finally some people that want to become doctors to treat people not just look good."</i>

Haha. And, since you're so offended, I won't bother pointing out the other assumptions about happiness, family life, and motivation, that are eagerly floating just below the surface of some posts here.

I would suggest you develop a thicker skin and a sense of professionalism now, because you'll probably need some time to break them in. The ass-kicking seems to come naturally for you, and that's great, but when the time comes, your patients won't care about your GPA and your MCAT score 1% as much as they'll care how well you treat them and make them feel.

Most patients know jack squat about the science underlying the practice of medicine, or the training involved, and they won't be setting performance standards.

No one wants a rude, uncaring physician, but why bring up issues of personality every time GPA, MCAT scores, and other measures of academic performance are mentioned? Are only those with a 26 MCAT assured of a string of blissful doctor-patient relationships? See, even you couldn't help yourself.

 

[Irene Adler]

farrago--

Oh, there are so many words in your post that I disagree with. Among them:

"It is my opinion that the general purpose of medicine is best fulfilled by those who have an interest in the basic science underlying disease, and a drive to be the best."

And it is my opinion that the PATIENTS are best served by knowledgable, compassionate physicians who are motivated to serve their patients, not compete against others, as your "drive to be the best" implies.

And:

"only the sedate, happily average people care about their patients?"

Just because my scores are average, does not mean that there has been anything "sedate" about my efforts. But I'm not going to kick myself for not getting a 42 on the MCAT or submit to "GPA-envy" just because other folks have better scores.

And:

"Most patients know jack squat about the science underlying the practice of medicine, or the training involved, and they won't be setting performance standards."

No. They won't be setting "performance standards". They just want to get better.


Scores are not my priority. Getting into an Ivy League is not my priority. I do not believe that test scores and GPAs are the determining factor in what makes a good physician. And I DO think that a good physician is determined by personality and mindset as well as basic academic ability.

GPAs and MCAT scores may be a tool to measure academic performance, but that doesn't mean that they aren't also a rather flawed tool to use to evaluate whether someone would make a good physican.

People with average scores are in no way assured of "blissful doctor-patient relationships" any more than anybody else.

But as person with average scores, I started this thread so I could talk to other people who shared MY highest priorities in medicine: outstanding patient care, a collegial relationship with other doctors, and, of course, to 'save lives and stamp out disease'.

Competition just doesn't do it for me. I am not 'the best' at anything. I will never be 'the best'. But that doesn't mean that I won't become a damned good physician.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

oooh.........YAY
I am so in !! In fact I am thinking about making a below average club !! Way to go all you averagers. I think this is the most inspring thing. Good luck to you all. Let's kick some butt and show all those above averagers who get 200 interviews and 100 acceptances that we can do it too. 😍

 

[Adapt]

Wow this thread is so old. I remember when I joined this club back right before I applied. Now I'm proud to say as a JAAC member I have had 13 interview invites altogether (MD and DO but didn't go to all of them) and so far 4 acceptances. This with my 29 MCAT. Ohhhhhh yeeeeeeaaaa.

Just goes to show it's not all about numbers. It's about confidence.

 

[jlee9531]

thats a really high science gpa requirement for just average applicants...

i was wondering if i could join...

i have a 3.4 cgpa
3.1 science gpa

31 mcat.

now that gpa is a pretty below average gpa...

 

[Disenchanted 1]

YAY SLICKNESS
Congrats on that!! U r our inspiration. BEst of luck with your med school experience this coming year.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

BTW, can I ask you what you GPA was?

 

[PreMedAdAG]

Got to admit... the average requirements are pretty HIGH averages! Damn Gina! I'm sending in my application, in hopes of a pity acceptance to this club!

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by Disenchanted 1
BTW, can I ask you what you GPA was?

It was a 3.7 when I applied although it's getting to a 3.6 because of senioritis. I would suggest submitting your application on June 1 because that also plays a big factor.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

Yea well I am applying this year.....so we will see how many of us average folks can get into med school. waiting to hear from more average students getting acceptances. Best of luck for everyone.