New grads - How difficult was it to find a position?

[ForgotUserName]

I have a relative that is interested in applying to either pharmacy school or dental hygiene. I have perused some of the pharmacy threads and it seems like the opportunities in the field have been in a lull. Is the outlook more optimistic several years down the road?

For those that just graduated and able to land a position - how long did it take and was it difficult to find a position?

Thanks in advance.

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[wagrxm2000]

Choose something else.

 

[TheMadPharmacist]

Choose something else.

I concur

 

[Digsbe]

I graduated in 2016, took me 7 months and 3 state licenses before landing a job in retail. I'd imagine it has only gotten worse.

 

[gwarm01]

2008: should I pursue MD or PharmD?

2013: BSN or PharmD?

2018: Dental hygiene or pharmacy?

2025: PharmD vs. ????

 

[PharmDBro2017]

A friend who graduated from my alma mater in 2018 said ~10% of his class had jobs lined up afterwards, and another ~10% got a residency. Anecdotal, but still doesn't bode well. I've seen quite a few FB posts from this class speaking about their lack of job prospects and feeling unwanted. Pharmacy is in a very bad spot right now and will continue to decline I think. I wouldn't recommend any friends or family to go to pharmacy school.

 

[Gombrich12]

2008: should I pursue MD or PharmD?

2013: BSN or PharmD?

2018: Dental hygiene or pharmacy?

2025: PharmD vs. ????

I'll take massage therapist for $500

 

[Modest_anteater]

I have a relative that is interested in applying to either pharmacy school or dental hygiene. I have perused some of the pharmacy threads and it seems like the opportunities in the field have been in a lull. Is the outlook more optimistic several years down the road?

For those that just graduated and able to land a position - how long did it take and was it difficult to find a position?

Thanks in advance.

"Is the outlook more optimistic several years down the road?"

No the outlook for pharmacy actually gets MUCH MUCH worse in the next decade. this is only the begining of saturation. There is a long lead time (10 years) before the full force of saturation hits. Think about how good the market was in 2003. now think how bad it got in 2013. Now in 2023 it will be horrible. I'm talking 40% joblessness rates for new grads with the other 30% getting part time float and the rest "employed" in residency. I think it might be good in 2040ish but it depends on how much automation changes the industry. So choose pharmacy if you want to be jobless and in a lot of debt. The schools are literally taking anyone at this point as they are desperate for government funds.

Spoiler: Hyperbole joke

I wouldn't be surprised if the deans starting walking around the intercity and paying homeless people to apply to their schools after cleaning them up a little bit.

 

[VA77]

I would rather go thru the great recession again in 2008 then what is happening and how long I expecr pharmacy to decline.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I would rather go thru the great recession again in 2008 then what is happening and how long I expecr pharmacy to decline.

What’s scary is pharmacy is already at a low point and continues to decline with no bottom in sight when the overall economy is booming and unemployment is at an all time low.

I can’t imagine what will happen to pharmacy when the next recession hits.

 

[VA77]

What’s scary is pharmacy is already at a low point and continues to decline with no bottom in sight when the overall economy is booming and unemployment is at an all time low.

I can’t imagine what will happen to pharmacy when the next recession hits.

Yeah pharmacy and general economy must have an inverse curve. I think you will get to see pharmacists explore untraditional careers even if they pay less and who knows maybe they will be happier. But yeah if both the pharmacy and economy tanks then we will be fighting for job pushing carts at a food store.

 

[lord999]

@

What’s scary is pharmacy is already at a low point and continues to decline with no bottom in sight when the overall economy is booming and unemployment is at an all time low.

I can’t imagine what will happen to pharmacy when the next recession hits.

I can, and I'd place a good bet that @oldtimer can as my uncles and aunts from Temple can tell you. Especially if you were in the Pennsylvania area in the late 70s/early 80s, there were no jobs without connections, you actually had to pay someone to get your 1000 hours in, and this was in an era where hospitals were actually laying off pharmacists and techs made 3/4's of a pharmacist wage (not that techs were paid especially well, pharmacists were paid very poorly). That's not even counting the 1980s decline of the cities (Philadelphia was far worse than it was today). This is the story of how so many Pitt, Temple, and Big 10 pharmacists ended up in the desert podunk (AZ) in the first place due to the industrial collapse of the Midwest and East.

It's kind of sad though that pharmacy has done the complete cycle in my lifetime...This is worse than the PT predictions I made 8 or so years ago.

However, it's not going to be all so great for everyone else either. People's memories of the 1980s are nostalgic, but there were tough times for most workers as industrialization was coming to an end. I expect the same analogy to happen to our postindustrial white collar workers as most of those jobs are automated, exported, or eliminated through our ruthless economy.

 

[Digsbe]

At the same time though, we are also beginning to see the decline of pharmacy school enrollment, many schools are cutting class sizes. If enough students look at job prospects and decline a career in pharmacy things may self correct. Then again, I anticipate schools taking anyone willing to pay 40k a year regardless of PCAT, GPA, or work experience (and this will be a major blow to the credibility of pharmacist knowledge and public health as a whole). The root of saturation is too many pharmacy schools. Something must be done to scale current ones back and implement some kind of policy to protect the profession from this ever happening again. Non-pharmacists literally dictate our profession and the job market for the nation.

Pharmacists should unionize and stage a protest to at least get the word out en masse the problems with the profession (I'd also strongly want to tie in how PBMs are also killing the profession and screwing over their patients at the same time).

 

[VA77]

At the same time though, we are also beginning to see the decline of pharmacy school enrollment, many schools are cutting class sizes. If enough students look at job prospects and decline a career in pharmacy things may self correct. Then again, I anticipate schools taking anyone willing to pay 40k a year regardless of PCAT, GPA, or work experience (and this will be a major blow to the credibility of pharmacist knowledge and public health as a whole). The root of saturation is too many pharmacy schools. Something must be done to scale current ones back and implement some kind of policy to protect the profession from this ever happening again. Non-pharmacists literally dictate our profession and the job market for the nation.

Pharmacists should unionize and stage a protest to at least get the word out en masse the problems with the profession (I'd also strongly want to tie in how PBMs are also killing the profession and screwing over their patients at the same time).

Already seeing schools market the "No PCAT, Early Admission-No Deposit" campaign. Yeah, If you showed up with a bag of money right now they would take you...no background check...lol

 

[PharmDminus]

i have theorized for awhile that as RPh wages drop (at least for new hires), independents will begin to grow again as labor costs are more manageable (yes i know the headwinds indies face with reimbursement etc). If i can make 80k/year opening my own pharmacy vs the alternative of not being able to find a job, it makes sense.

 

[Digsbe]

Already seeing schools market the "No PCAT, Early Admission-No Deposit" campaign. Yeah, If you showed up with a bag of money right now they would take you...no background check...lol

If ACPE has any integrity in terms of accrediting schools they should absolutely put a stop to things like that. It's downright shameful and has to be some kind of violation of standards. I can see the 2018 prospective pharmacy school student personal statement being written like

"LOL fam this bitch fired me from Wendy's and I wanna show up her fool ass by becoming a pharmacist. Haters going to hate *insert three 100 emojis and a set of praying hands*"

 

[VA77]

In all seriousness and I know most of us have made jokes of the standards being lowered each year but one day something major is going to happen and this is going to be a contributing factor. ACPE, BOPs, AACP, ASHP, APHA are all going to be trying to point the finger at each other or the schools themselves

 

[quickpic007]

A friend who graduated from my alma mater in 2018 said ~10% of his class had jobs lined up afterwards, and another ~10% got a residency. Anecdotal, but still doesn't bode well. I've seen quite a few FB posts from this class speaking about their lack of job prospects and feeling unwanted. Pharmacy is in a very bad spot right now and will continue to decline I think. I wouldn't recommend any friends or family to go to pharmacy school.

What part of the nation is this in!?? 80% without jobs? Urban Coast must be.
Shoot even my old district at CVS is short 4 or more FTE...

 

[PAtoPharm]

I don't really keep up with the pharmacy job market anymore, but even I have to say that I'm surprised by just how bad the job market has apparently gotten. I talked to a pharmacist the other day who my family has known for a long time, and he currently works for a pharmacy in a branch of the armed forces that hires civilian pharmacists, and he said that when they posted their most recent job listing on USAjobs.gov, they received over 80 applications for it (and the starting salary is apparently less than $70k). It sounds like the job market has gotten even worse than I had attempted to predict last year.

Serious question -- where are most of the c/o 2018 grads getting jobs? Are at least 50% of them settling for PRN jobs or something?

 

[catalyzt]

and here we go....... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Mambo#5]

and here we go....... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Thoughtfulsinner]

Original topic

 

[HandsomeVampire]

my friend who graduated a year before me, took a year to find a job after graduation.

 

[mydogatemysuboxone27]

I spent time interning with one company during classes and on rotations instead of traveling to different countries and exploring like a majority of my class did. I had a job before I graduated and it was only five minutes from my house. It really depends on what branch of pharmacy you're going for and how saturated the area is for pharmacists

 

[Lnsean]

doom and gloom talk so hot right now

 

[UGAZ]

doom and gloom talk so hot right now

Human nature...we all love drama , don't we?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I spent time interning with one company during classes and on rotations instead of traveling to different countries and exploring like a majority of my class did. I had a job before I graduated and it was only five minutes from my house. It really depends on what branch of pharmacy you're going for and how saturated the area is for pharmacists

I did both, lmao

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I have a relative that is interested in applying to either pharmacy school or dental hygiene. I have perused some of the pharmacy threads and it seems like the opportunities in the field have been in a lull. Is the outlook more optimistic several years down the road?

For those that just graduated and able to land a position - how long did it take and was it difficult to find a position?

Thanks in advance.

It didn't take me long to find a job. I graduated in 2016. I ended up working at targe/cvs for about a year and half before I moved on to indie. The problems is that, where I live, only chain retail jobs are somewhat available. Independents, hospitals, clinical positions are very difficult to land. Even with retail, only the bottom feeders have opened positions readily available such as cvs and wag. Decent places like Tom Thumb, Kroger, CostCo, Sam's are almost nonexistent.

 

[mydogatemysuboxone27]

I did both, lmao

****, more power to you. I didn't have the best grades in the world so I played it safe. Maybe a little too conservative but hey, it worked out haha

 

[Dred Pirate]

2008: should I pursue MD or PharmD?

2013: BSN or PharmD?

2018: Dental hygiene or pharmacy?

2025: PharmD vs. ????

electrician?

actually in all honesty a electrician can make bank- heck a dental hygieniest can make pretty good money depending on the locale - and with a hell of a lot less school

 

[solitarius]

Electricians get their work through unions, which are tough to crack into and get work from consistently.

Best bang for your buck if you can hack it mentally: software programming.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

****, more power to you. I didn't have the best grades in the world so I played it safe. Maybe a little too conservative but hey, it worked out haha

I had an... Unusual arrangement with Walmart.

My preceptor quit after my first summer.
After that, I realized that nobody was paying attention.

I could literally just show up and work whatever hours I wanted.

 

[PAtoPharm]

electrician?

actually in all honesty a electrician can make bank- heck a dental hygieniest can make pretty good money depending on the locale - and with a hell of a lot less school

The work sounds nasty, but my city's newspaper actually ran a front page article on how hot the local dental hygienist job market is. The program takes less than 2 yrs to complete and starting salaries are at $70k in my area. Way more bang for the buck than pharmacy at this point.

 

[Modest_anteater]

The work sounds nasty, but my city's newspaper actually ran a front page article on how hot the local dental hygienist job market is. The program takes less than 2 yrs to complete and starting salaries are at $70k in my area. Way more bang for the buck than pharmacy at this point.

Been awhile since I saw u post bro. Glad to have you back! Can you give us an update on your life/work status?

 

[RxPreceptor]

*Officially dead once PAtoPharm posts

 

[Modest_anteater]

*Officially dead once PAtoPharm posts

Come on man that's like kinda rude.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Been awhile since I saw u post bro. Glad to have you back! Can you give us an update on your life/work status?

Just finished first semester of PA/AA school. I'm motivated more than I ever have been to do well in school and be successful. I guess that's one thing I can thank pharmacy school for.

 

[gwarm01]

electrician?

actually in all honesty a electrician can make bank- heck a dental hygieniest can make pretty good money depending on the locale - and with a hell of a lot less school

Heck, electrician is one of the jobs I would go for if pharmacy fell apart tomorrow. Good money, interesting work, potential boom years coming soon with the growth of electric cars.

I was thinking more.. should I become a pharmacist or a nail technician?

 

[catalyzt]

The work sounds nasty, but my city's newspaper actually ran a front page article on how hot the local dental hygienist is.

FTFY.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Just finished first semester of PA/AA school. I'm motivated more than I ever have been to do well in school and be successful. I guess that's one thing I can thank pharmacy school for.

Wow you switched back to PA? nice man. You made the right choice. It must feel pretty good knowing you will have a job after getting your degree unlike many of these pharm-students.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Just finished first semester of PA/AA school. I'm motivated more than I ever have been to do well in school and be successful. I guess that's one thing I can thank pharmacy school for.

How much longer do you have? And is it at the same school?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Heck, electrician is one of the jobs I would go for if pharmacy fell apart tomorrow. Good money, interesting work, potential boom years coming soon with the growth of electric cars.

I was thinking more.. should I become a pharmacist or a nail technician?

Ok, I can understand why you'd think that, but there's no way a standard electrician that changes the outlet in your car would be working on an e-car.
And the more concept driven stuff would be an electrical engineer

 

[gwarm01]

Ok, I can understand why you'd think that, but there's no way a standard electrician that changes the outlet in your car would be working on an e-car.
And the more concept driven stuff would be an electrical engineer

I'm talking about updating the wiring and circuit breakers in residential homes, apartments, garages etc. to handle the load for EV charging, not to mention installing charging ports. Tesla is actually sponsoring people for training to become electricians because there is already a shortage and the demand for their labor is just going to increase.

We're a long ways off, but imagine if we get to a point where every household in America has a need to charge their car at home? That's a lot of work. Maybe it isn't super interesting, but I was a tinkerer as a kid and I think I'd enjoy it.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I'm talking about updating the wiring and circuit breakers in residential homes, apartments, garages etc. to handle the load for EV charging, not to mention installing charging ports. Tesla is actually sponsoring people for training to become electricians because there is already a shortage and the demand for their labor is just going to increase.

We're a long ways off, but imagine if we get to a point where every household in America has a need to charge their car at home? That's a lot of work. Maybe it isn't super interesting, but I was a tinkerer as a kid and I think I'd enjoy it.

Ohhh, that makes sense

 

[PreAAstudent]

Just finished first semester of PA/AA school. I'm motivated more than I ever have been to do well in school and be successful. I guess that's one thing I can thank pharmacy school for.

are you in PA or AA school? cuz those are 2 very different things.

 

[PreAAstudent]

Already seeing schools market the "No PCAT, Early Admission-No Deposit" campaign. Yeah, If you showed up with a bag of money right now they would take you...no background check...lol

Same thing is also happening to NP profession.. Saturated as hell because anyone with a BSN and a 2.0 gpa can get into online diploma mills such as university of phoenix etc... The barrier to entry is literally nothing, similar to pharmacy. Thats why a lot of NPs are going back to nursing because a lot of RNs are now making more than NPs.

 

[Nguyen]

Just finished first semester of PA/AA school. I'm motivated more than I ever have been to do well in school and be successful. I guess that's one thing I can thank pharmacy school for.

What's AA school? Associate in Arts? Do they pay well?

 

[BC_89]

What's AA school? Associate in Arts? Do they pay well?

Assistant Anesthetists (for those who don’t know and can now connect the sarcasm)

 

[Amphetamine Salts]

i graduated may 2018, had an interview while in school February 2018, accepted it in march.

 

[Modest_anteater]

i graduated may 2018, had an interview while in school February 2018, accepted it in march.

when did you get licensed though and in how many states. How many jobs did you apply to?