New grads - How difficult was it to find a position?

[PharBeyondDriven]

I take some time to grow what interest is matter here. Some people have good interest in this field they grow up fastly whether he is greduate of studied higher. But if we think about pharmacy.The barrier to entry is literally nothing, similar to pharmacy. Thats why a lot of NPs are going back to nursing because a lot of RNs are now making more than NPs.

It's funny you mention this. I'm an RN and I went to pharmacy school to "move up." I'm giving serious consideration to leaving pharmacy and going back to nursing. I know the hospital I used to work at wil take me back and my loans will be discharged in 10 years.

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[ornithoptor]

It's funny you mention this. I'm an RN and I went to pharmacy school to "move up." I'm giving serious consideration to leaving pharmacy and going back to nursing. I know the hospital I used to work at wil take me back and my loans will be discharged in 10 years.

My hospital system has given two market adjustment for nursing in the last two years, none for pharmacy. Nursing shortage and experienced and skilled nurses are two separated issues. Also, HR knows how saturated pharmacy field is.
If you are still a few years away from finishing the program, it may not be a bad idea to cut your losses.


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[MrBonita]

When I was in college I wanted to be 4 things.
1. Porn Star
2. MMA fighter
3. Professional Gamer.
4. Pharmacist

Unfortunately I went down the list and failed at the first 3. I auditioned to 3 porn movies in Hollywood and got turned down. My agent told me to do commercials and stop requesting porn auditions and I quit. I trained in MMA at the Lions Den and saw some gruesome injuries and quit. Also, I kept getting taped out. I tried to be a professional gamer but exited several Major League of gaming tournaments and couldn't earn a living. Somehow, becoming a pharmacist was the only one that worked.

 

[UGAZ]

When I was in college I wanted to be 4 things.
1. Porn Star
2. MMA fighter
3. Professional Gamer.
4. Pharmacist

Unfortunately I went down the list and failed at the first 3. I auditioned to 3 porn movies in Hollywood and got turned down. My agent told me to do commercials and stop requesting porn auditions and I quit. I trained in MMA at the Lions Den and saw some gruesome injuries and quit. Also, I kept getting taped out. I tried to be a professional gamer but exited several Major League of gaming tournaments and couldn't earn a living. Somehow, becoming a pharmacist was the only one that worked.

Impressive....Quite a journey there! At least you're being honest about your past, Mr. Almost To be Pornstar

 

[owlegrad]

I didn’t realize you could fail at being a porn star. Surely there is a type for everyone? Or perhaps your acting wasn’t up to par?

I kid, it’s actually pretty cool story. I would tell it at parties.

 

[owlegrad]

And I just realized your list was:

Getting screwed
Getting beat up
Getting your butt handed to you
Pharmacist

Basically the first three were perfect training!!!

 

[PharBeyondDriven]

My hospital system has given two market adjustment for nursing in the last two years, none for pharmacy. Nursing shortage and experienced and skilled nurses are two separated issues. Also, HR knows how saturated pharmacy field is.
If you are still a few years away from finishing the program, it may not be a bad idea to cut your losses.


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Too late. I'm already a pharmacist.

 

[PharmtoCS]

You know what's going to be really toxic?

Mass precipitation of pharmacists out of the market.

 

[solitarius]

When I was in college I wanted to be 4 things.
1. Porn Star
2. MMA fighter
3. Professional Gamer.
4. Pharmacist

Unfortunately I went down the list and failed at the first 3. I auditioned to 3 porn movies in Hollywood and got turned down. My agent told me to do commercials and stop requesting porn auditions and I quit. I trained in MMA at the Lions Den and saw some gruesome injuries and quit. Also, I kept getting taped out. I tried to be a professional gamer but exited several Major League of gaming tournaments and couldn't earn a living. Somehow, becoming a pharmacist was the only one that worked.

At least you dreamed big.

 

[Fluffhead.D]

Ugh 32 hours floating... I guess that truly is the new normal now. Funny how the profession went from free car sign on bonus to not even getting full hours in only ten years.

When I graduated in 2002 I may as well have descended from the sky like God. Not like that anymore!!! Been unemployed 2 months now and hopefully an offer soon. Colorado is tough.

 

[Timbo]

Honestly, I would tell your relative to choose another path. I'm a 2018 grad and was lucky enough to have a job secured as I matched for residency. As of right now, ~50% of my class (~115 grads total) are still without a a job 3 months out. Approximately 20% of my class is made up of PGY-1 residents, and another 30% doing retail jobs. The job market is pretty dismal, and residency is competitive. Unless they know for SURE that pharmacy is their life dream... I would stay away. Honestly, if I had to do it over... I would have gone to PA school.

Does the school publish employment rates for new grads? I wish all schools did. Mine surveyed us just after graduation but i can’t find statistics posted anywhere

 

[Rxaunt]

Not typical but i graduated in 2017 had a floater job at graduation, not the company I wanted to work for but I did have about 36 hours a week so it was fine. I was decent at it most stores i worked with often cheered when i walked through the door because i got **** done and wouldn't leave the place a mess unless it was inevitable. Because of that I was offered a permanent position about 5 months in but i didn't live near that store nor did i want to move there so I turned it down, although since they were working on filling the position I basically lived at that store anyway. A little over a year after i graduated I was offered a new job with a different company which was close to home and the company i wanted to work for when i graduated. I know this is far from the typical story as it was hinted that most of the other candidates for the position I have now were new grads that were still looking for a job. I do have to say though that the only reason that I was so lucky was because I just happened to know the right people. I was offered the float job because of one of my professors that I had a rotation with gave me the right contact information. I was offered the permanent position when almost all of my floater classmates weren't because I was well liked at the store that was looking. I was offered my new job because my old manager reached out to me and asked me I was interested and passed on a great recommendation for me.

 

[Modest_anteater]

When I graduated in 2002 I may as well have descended from the sky like God. Not like that anymore!!! Been unemployed 2 months now and hopefully an offer soon. Colorado is tough.

welcome to the new reality!

 

[Sine Cura]

If I end up working 15 years I would just call it a career.

 

[greenteapanacea]

2018 Grad here. My school took a graduation placement survey in May, but hasn't updated it: out of the responses, 28% hadn't secured employment by graduation. Of course, this unemployment rate is projected to decrease after licensing exams, etc. 21% Secured residencies. I personally took a staff position with the hospital I interned at.

If you interned during pharmacy school, you still have a decent shot at finding at least a per diem/floater position outside of a metro area.

 

[Sine Cura]

Like with penis size there will always be sampling bias with those surveys. It is probably worse.

 

[gwarm01]

Like with penis size there will always be sampling bias with those surveys. It is probably worse.

My school does a year survey as well. Only 55% of the class of 2018 had secured jobs by graduation.

 

[youRCC]

Class of 2017, no job, California

 

[Momus]

Class of 2017, no job, California

Avatar checks out.

 

[gwarm01]

Class of 2017, no job, California

Did you ever get a job after graduation? When did you stop looking and why?

 

[youRCC]

Avatar checks out.

Did you ever get a job after graduation?

Nope. Took 6 months off, passed NAPLEX, failed CPJE, retook CPJE, licensed June 2018.

When did you stop looking and why?

I haven't stopped...

 

[PharmtoCS]

Class of 2017, no job, California

Which metro area?

 

[youRCC]

Which metro area?

LA

 

[AlwaysContrary]

Nope. Took 6 months off, passed NAPLEX, failed CPJE, retook CPJE, licensed June 2018.

I haven't stopped...

It took you a year to get licensed?

 

[projektreverb]

It took you a year to get licensed?

From what I’ve gathered, it takes California a long time to process all your application paperwork. Most of the people I graduated with had to wait like 4 months for their ATT to generate from the state.

 

[bacillus1]

I have a friend who's a dental hygienist. Seems like a great career that pays very well for that little amount of education. Your relative should go into this instead of pharmacy, if he/she is OK with working with teeth all day.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I have a friend who's a dental hygienist. Seems like a great career that pays very well for that little amount of education. Your relative should go into this instead of pharmacy, if he/she is OK with working with teeth all day.

Or PA. Relatively decent job security and decent pay. Easier to get into than pharmacy school.

 

[Dr. Pill]

PA school is not easier to get into than pharmacy school.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

PA school is not easier to get into than pharmacy school.

Well, not now

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

PA school is not easier to get into than pharmacy school.

Average required GPA is lower and some school don't even require a GRE. Even the ones that do require, they don't require a high score. Also most of them are only a 24 months program. Sounds relatively easier to get in and also easier to finish.

 

[Sine Cura]

Example: Western University in Pomona, CA

PharmD: 1046 applications, 480 interviews (45.9% of applicants interviewed), 128 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.44, science GPA 3.33
Competitive Candidate - Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD)


MSPA: 2808 applications, 400 interviews (14.2% of applications interviewed), 98 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.72, science GPA 3.55
Competitive Candidate - Master of Science Physician Assistant (MSPA)

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Example: Western University in Pomona, CA

PharmD: 1046 applications, 480 interviews (45.9% of applicants interviewed), 128 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.44, science GPA 3.33
Competitive Candidate - Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD)


MSPA: 2808 applications, 400 interviews (14.2% of applications interviewed), 98 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.72, science GPA 3.55
Competitive Candidate - Master of Science Physician Assistant (MSPA)

What about their PCAT scores vs GRE? I've taken both. Had to take GRE for my master's. PCAT is much harder.

Looks like Western University isn't even ranked in both pharmacy or PA program.

 

[BC_89]

Average required GPA is lower and some school don't even require a GRE. Even the ones that do require, they don't require a high score. Also most of them are only a 24 months program. Sounds relatively easier to get in and also easier to finish.

Most PA programs (soon all) require a bachelors as well as HCE - Health Care Experience as well as shadowing (GPA comparison is a wash if you compare 2-year pharmacy prereqs vs 4 year bachelors). Some programs are starting to evolve to taking the MCAT instead of GRE. Ignoring the exceptions however, you don’t need a bachelors for pharmacy, you don’t need “pharmacy healthcare experience” / shadowing, and screening for low GPA’s has a minimal to no threshold in pharmacy.

If it was up to me, I wish Pharmacy mandated a bachelors AND pharmacy health care experience of 1,000 hours as a tech to understand the roles and experience of the job itself. Arguably I’d say most PA’s are happier with their career vs pharmacists simply because of the mandated patient exposure requirements and shadowing while as for pharmacy the majority never step foot in retail let alone anything else.

 

[Sine Cura]

I didn't mention that respectable PA programs also require patient care experience whereas many PharmD programs require only a pulse and ability to take out 200k in student loans

And LOLrankings when it comes to PA or PharmD programs. I just chose Western because it is in a large-population state and has both PA and PharmD programs. If we looked at USC admissions (has both PharmD and PA programs and MCAT for interviewees averaged 20... ehhhhhhhh) we would probably see similar, as well as Touro. All the other diploma mills in California IDC about (Stanford doesn't have PharmD)

 

[SoylentGreen]

I am not a new grad but I heard last week that the majority of '18 grads in my state don't have jobs. This is not a particularly saturated area with desirable cities and lots of pharmacy schools so I can only imagine how bad it must be elsewhere.

 

[njac]

Nope. Took 6 months off, passed NAPLEX, failed CPJE, retook CPJE, licensed June 2018.

I haven't stopped...

Considering that most employers know how horrific the CA BOP is, you’ve truly only been unemployed since June 2018.

Why in the world did you take “6 months off” before your boards?




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[mentos]

I have a friend who's a dental hygienist. Seems like a great career that pays very well for that little amount of education. Your relative should go into this instead of pharmacy, if he/she is OK with working with teeth all day.

Very good field right now. Look at how much better value it is too.

Did a quick Google search.

Dental Hygienist:
Average tuition: 23k (2 years)
Average salary: 77k

Pharmacist:
Average tuition: 124k (6 years)
Average salary: 147k

Imagine making 77k with only 23k in tuition, you could most likely graduate with zero debt.

 

[njac]

I have a friend who's a dental hygienist. Seems like a great career that pays very well for that little amount of education. Your relative should go into this instead of pharmacy, if he/she is OK with working with teeth all day.

Dental hygienist or assistant?

I keep seeing people in this thread referencing a 2-year program. The last time I discussed with my dental hygienist friend I understood that it’s a bachelors degree program and requires o-chem as a prerequisite. Ok I just googled, there is a more common associates degree pathway. Apparently my hygienist friend is an overachiever.


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[bacillus1]

Dental hygienist or assistant?

I keep seeing people in this thread referencing a 2-year program. The last time I discussed with my dental hygienist friend I understood that it’s a bachelors degree program and requires o-chem as a prerequisite. Ok I just googled, there is a more common associates degree pathway. Apparently my hygienist friend is an overachiever.


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He's a hygienist, with a bachelor's. Apparently you can do more stuff with a bachelor's. He makes almost as much as a pharmacist. Not bad for a bachelor's degree at a state school.

 

[youRCC]

Why in the world did you take “6 months off” before your boards?

You work for the rest of your life. What's 6 months in the grand scheme of things?

 

[njac]

You work for the rest of your life. What's 6 months in the grand scheme of things?

In theory, I agree with you.

But if the job market is as tight as everyone reports (I graduated 10 years ago) why give them something to question?

I’m not a hiring manager, but I get to participate in lots of interviews, and these are the things I’ll notice on a CV.


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[GrandTheftAutumn]

Example: Western University in Pomona, CA

PharmD: 1046 applications, 480 interviews (45.9% of applicants interviewed), 128 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.44, science GPA 3.33
Competitive Candidate - Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD)


MSPA: 2808 applications, 400 interviews (14.2% of applications interviewed), 98 enrolled
Average overall GPA 3.72, science GPA 3.55
Competitive Candidate - Master of Science Physician Assistant (MSPA)

I can't believe 1000 kids still apply to pharmacy school still...

Considering that most employers know how horrific the CA BOP is, you’ve truly only been unemployed since June 2018.

Why in the world did you take “6 months off” before your boards?




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I wouldn't blame him/her though.
Getting a PharmD is quite an achievement and deserves celebrating (i.e. graduation trips).
I know my colleagues who traveled out of country and passed boards just fine.
Although 6 months seem a bit too long.

 

[youRCC]

Because gaps stick out like a sore thumb when you're new and inexperienced. That timing may have been pivotal. I'm a 2017 grad who wasn't employed upon graduation, and had I waited that long before boards the search would have been even worse.
Licensed 11/17 (because of a cancellation due to inclement weather), part time offer 1/18, full time 3/18.

Even with my SiX mOnThS off, I would have been licensed around the same time as you if I passed all my exams the first try. LOL. Why you frontin?

In theory, I agree with you.

But if the job market is as tight as everyone reports (I graduated 10 years ago) why give them something to question?

I’m not a hiring manager, but I get to participate in lots of interviews, and these are the things I’ll notice on a CV.

I appreciate the commiseration but I meannnnn kinda late for the lecture now, innit? Not like I'm going to tell these big shot DMs that I partied for 6 months straight, lol. Plus you got to be a pretty scumbag DM to make assumptions like that about an applicant's gaps anyway.

Although 6 months seem a bit too long.

**** happens, bro. I got my own 'inclement weathers' happenin.

 

[BC_89]

you got to be a pretty scumbag DM to make assumptions like that about an applicant's gaps anyway.

Not a scumbag, just cutting out an excessive pool of applicants from 500 new grads to 250 for 1 slot at a starting wage. Gotta screen for some level of threshold in a saturated market.

 

[youRCC]

Not a scumbag, just cutting out an excessive pool of applicants from 500 new grads to 250 for 1 slot at a starting wage. Gotta screen for some level of threshold in a saturated market.

Yep, I agree. All I'm saying is that they're scumbag to make assumptions like 6 months off = hardcore partier. But at that point, doesn't matter what they think. They're just shredding apps down to a manageable level.

 

[Dolfina]

No one made any assumptions about what you were doing, just that they have plenty of applicants without a gap so apps with one get filtered out. I also didn't pass my state's mpje the first time. Wasn't going to compare that because I know the cpje is a whole other beast from every other state. I know I was very lucky in my search and have many classmates still searching.
Edit: I see you shading the weather, but I was referencing a hurricane

 

[Chriskahn]

I had a grad intern offer in June. Got a floater offer in October. It is now Late November and I still haven't started. DM said the system isn't letting him process my application and he opened a ticket to fix the issue. So I'm assuming I'm not going to start until December, if that. Panic is setting in because my loan payment started in November and I don't have enough money to pay for December.

Time to go get seasonal work at Target or something

 

[PharmDBro2017]

You work for the rest of your life. What's 6 months in the grand scheme of things?

For most people, probably a deal breaker just seeing you took 6 months off.

The real issue here though is that during those 6 months all the (desirable) jobs were taken by grads that wanted to go to work immediately.... leaving you currently jobless.

 

[gwarm01]

I had a grad intern offer in June. Got a floater offer in October. It is now Late November and I still haven't started. DM said the system isn't letting him process my application and he opened a ticket to fix the issue. So I'm assuming I'm not going to start until December, if that. Panic is setting in because my loan payment started in November and I don't have enough money to pay for December.

Time to go get seasonal work at Target or something

Switch to an income based repayment plan if you have federal loans.

 

[Sine Cura]

If you are still not employed, I would spin it as looking for FT work even if you weren't looking for 6 mo