New level of idiocy

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Look on the bright side. We can go get a job in Canada or OZ or GB or Brazil easily enough if need be. I feel bad for the average punter who's probably stuck here for the duration on the slowly sinking ship. Austerity is coming. And apparently picking up speed.
He's still got plenty of cheerleaders and I expect "4 more years, 4 more ..."
Maybe he got Arnold in as a consultant on his budget planning sessions.😉
 
10.6 Trillion Dollars when Obama took office.

Current Deficit: 14+ trillion. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Am I supposed to jump with joy for saving 1 trillion over 10 years?


:eyebrow::eyebrow:

Sevo, believe it or not, you are actually giving the Chosen One way too much credit in your figures. He is only supposedly reducing 1 trillion dollars off of the annual deficit in 10 years, NOT the total debt. He won't lower us from 14 to 13 trillion in debt. What he is proposing is instead of running a 1.5 trillion dollar annual deficit in 10 years, we'll run a .5 trillion dollar annual deficit in 10 years; ie, we'll still be ADDING to the total debt, not subtracting. In other words, we'll still owe around 25 trillion or so; and that's using his best case optimistic scenario, which as we know NEVER comes true and is always worse.
 
Maybe he got Arnold in as a consultant on his budget planning sessions.😉

And then he could consult the Tea Party for fine advice too. They pushed for 1 trillion dollars of tax cuts and matched it with 61 billion dollars of spending cuts. More fraud.
 
We'll never get to 25 trillion, b/c we'll (the good ol' U.S.) be officially bankrupt at 18-20 million as most economist predict.

Think China owns us now, just wait.
Good times ahead...

CJ
 
Look on the bright side. We can go get a job in Canada or OZ or GB or Brazil easily enough if need be.

I'm aware that American doctors can work in Australia or NZ without having to take their equivalent of the USMLE steps. Is it the same for Canada, UK, and Brazil? Is it true that Americans need 5 post-grad (residency) years of training to get licensed and practice there (in Canada)?
 
And then he could consult the Tea Party for fine advice too. They pushed for 1 trillion dollars of tax cuts and matched it with 61 billion dollars of spending cuts. More fraud.

Politicians trying to ride the tea party wave are hardly the tea party, even if they call themselves the tea party coalition.

Replace the income tax with a VAT and a low flat rate corporate tax. Doing away with tax breaks to be sold would limit politicians ability to sell out.
 
Is it true that Americans need 5 post-grad (residency) years of training to get licensed and practice there (in Canada)?

Yes. If you have completed a fellowship, you can apply for the board exams in Canada. Your fellowship will not, however, count as a fellowship. I would not be a Cardiac Anesthesiologist and someone who did a peds fellowship would not be a Pediatric Anesthesiologist, we would be general anesthesiologists unless we did a sixth year fellowship. This is true even if you do your fellowship in Canada. I have a friend doing CT in Toronto. When he is finished, he will be Canadian Boards eligible, but he will not be a cardiac anesthesiologist in Canada, though he will be in the US.

- pod
 
Think China owns us now, just wait.

Let me state for the record that I'm not afraid of China, a country with
  • nearly a billion people living in abject poverty
  • a looming demographic disaster of just staggering proportions
  • inflation that is visibly high despite efforts to conceal it
  • extraordinary environmental damage
  • a real estate bubble that makes our own look like peanuts
  • a culture of mimicry rather than innovation
  • provinces with huge and crushing debt (really!)
  • and (oh yeah) a brutally oppressive communist regime

China's ****ed in every way that matters EXCEPT central government debt.


Remember when Japanese investors bought Pebble Beach? We were so afraid of Japan owning us back then ...
 
I think your points illustrate that the GOP/Right have become the party/philosophy of the penny wise and the pound foolish.

A truly balanced budget is not desirable. Remember, part of Alexander Hamilton's genius was recognizing that our nation should assume a national debt in the first place. Virtually all economists agree that a balanced budget is actually a bad thing when we are talking about growing the national economy of the United States.

It's a slightly subtle detail -- that the global and US economies are slightly more complicated than principles taught in high school home economics.

Increasing debt coupled with shortsighted domestic and monatary policies is indeed disastrous (see US Executive and Legislative branches 2001 - 2008). Assuming debt with policies geared towards long-term growth is what the President is trying to do. Hardly the actions of "the worst leader in the entire history of the Earth."
 
Will congress ( even if we had a Rebublican majority in both houses) have the courage to cut entitlements of Social Security and Medicare while increasing revenues? It is my understanding that this is what the math requires. I am thinking that major policy changes such as these should be considered separately anyway.
 
I think your points illustrate that the GOP/Right have become the party/philosophy of the penny wise and the pound foolish.

A truly balanced budget is not desirable. Remember, part of Alexander Hamilton's genius was recognizing that our nation should assume a national debt in the first place. Virtually all economists agree that a balanced budget is actually a bad thing when we are talking about growing the national economy of the United States.

Can you expand on this?
 
Everybody is trying to debase their currency (or prevent appreciation) so it will increase employment at home.
Nobody wants the dollar to be the world's reserve currency anymore (except us), yet there are no alternatives for the foreseeable future. (possible exception for gold and silver but I don't hold out much hope)

How to invest? No one knows. Remember a few months ago when the consensus on this board was to stay liquid with the DOW @ 10,000? Those who did left 20% on the table. I do agree that the real return of financial assets going forward will be less than the last few decades, but the nominal might be huge.

No one knows what the end game is going to be, or when it will play out.
 
Social security is not the problem. health care and current defense expenditures are over 50% of the budget. but im sure you guys would rather not talk about that.
 
I think your points illustrate that the GOP/Right have become the party/philosophy of the penny wise and the pound foolish.

A truly balanced budget is not desirable. Remember, part of Alexander Hamilton's genius was recognizing that our nation should assume a national debt in the first place. Virtually all economists agree that a balanced budget is actually a bad thing when we are talking about growing the national economy of the United States.

It's a slightly subtle detail -- that the global and US economies are slightly more complicated than principles taught in high school home economics.

Increasing debt coupled with shortsighted domestic and monatary policies is indeed disastrous (see US Executive and Legislative branches 2001 - 2008). Assuming debt with policies geared towards long-term growth is what the President is trying to do. Hardly the actions of "the worst leader in the entire history of the Earth."

Outstanding post. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
 
nonsense

A truly balanced budget is not desirable. Remember, part of Alexander Hamilton's genius was recognizing that our nation should assume a national debt in the first place. Virtually all economists agree that a balanced budget is actually a bad thing when we are talking about growing the national economy of the United States.

Assuming debt with policies geared towards long-term growth is what the President is trying to do. Hardly the actions of "the worst leader in the entire history of the Earth."

Well, at least you labeled your post "nonsense." You did get that part of it right.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
I see. So what you’re saying is that you’re a Republican, and have been a Republican for quite some time.

Got it.

Have you always been horrendously poor at reading comprehension???
 
Outstanding post. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Oh boy, another guy up to his eyes in Obama koolaide. What possibly more does Obama have to do for his disciples to see he is in completely over his head and has no idea what he is doing???
 
Social security is not the problem. health care and current defense expenditures are over 50% of the budget. but im sure you guys would rather not talk about that.

But didn't all the incorrect liberal economists state how useless government spending on things like war and defense puts everyone back to work and cured the Great Depression? Was it the magic bullets they used or the different colored tanks in WW2 that make it different from current defense and war spending? Hard for you Klugmaphiles to have any credibility if there is no consistancy in what you say.
 
listening to doctors talking about anything but medicine=priceless

just sayin'
 
But didn't all the incorrect liberal economists state how useless government spending on things like war and defense puts everyone back to work and cured the Great Depression? Was it the magic bullets they used or the different colored tanks in WW2 that make it different from current defense and war spending? Hard for you Klugmaphiles to have any credibility if there is no consistancy in what you say.

WWII did not cure the Great Depression. That is a commonly mentioned myth, and one that appeals to those whose understanding of economics and American history hovers at the middle school level.
 
WWII did not cure the Great Depression.

Couldn't agree with you more.

That is a commonly mentioned myth, and one that appeals to those whose understanding of economics and American history hovers at the middle school level.

Couldn't disagree with you more. This myth is propagated at the "scholar" level quite widely.
 
Oh boy, another guy up to his eyes in Obama koolaide. What possibly more does Obama have to do for his disciples to see he is in completely over his head and has no idea what he is doing???

Wait. You are saying that taking money from workers and investors to fund social program spending on the retired and unemployed isn't a strong economic stimulus for long term growth? I heard deficits are good. We wouldn't even have a deficit without medicare, medicaid, and social security. You're crazy, narc.
 
listening to doctors talking about anything but medicine=priceless

Don't underestimate a physician's ability to understand 5th grade level math just because our agenda based media and politicians can't.

Seriously, is it really above a physician's intelligence to understand wasteful deficit spending to prop up a broke country is digging the hole digger? That deficit-creating tax cuts to prop up a broke society is digging the hole deeper? That printing money to pay off the debt is simply devaluing the currency? That when countries realize they will be paid back with printed devalued money, or none at all, they will cease lending and our interest rates shoot to the moon? That when we can't even pay the interest on the debt all we can do is print or default? That war spending either makes you more broke (correct), more rich (incorrect), but sounds absolutely ridiculous when played both ways depending on the war?

Granted I've studied economics much more than you have based on the wording of your post, but it is certainly not above any physician's intelligence to understand the most simpliest of mathematical basics. It's hardly rocket science.
 
Don't underestimate a physician's ability to understand 5th grade level math just because our agenda based media and politicians can't.

Seriously, is it really above a physician's intelligence to understand wasteful deficit spending to prop up a broke country is digging the hole digger? That deficit-creating tax cuts to prop up a broke society is digging the hole deeper? That printing money to pay off the debt is simply devaluing the currency? That when countries realize they will be paid back with printed devalued money, or none at all, they will cease lending and our interest rates shoot to the moon? That when we can't even pay the interest on the debt all we can do is print or default? That war spending either makes you more broke (correct), more rich (incorrect), but sounds absolutely ridiculous when played both ways depending on the war?

Granted I've studied economics much more than you have based on the wording of your post, but it is certainly not above any physician's intelligence to understand the most simpliest of mathematical basics. It's hardly rocket science.

I think the point is that the United States economy is not "the most simliest of mathematical basics." That's why extremely intelligent people, such a physicians, often sound very uninformed when they venture out of medicine and into economics.
 
I think the point is that the United States economy is not "the most simliest of mathematical basics." That's why extremely intelligent people, such a physicians, often sound very uninformed when they venture out of medicine and into economics.

You are right. It's WAY to complicated for anyone to understand, even the best informed, smartest economists. Luckily their is a system for millions of people to make billions of decisions on topics that they DO understand and for their collective wisdom to choose winners and losers amongst various products and services.
It's delusional leftist politicians who think they can make decisions better than 300 million people can. They allocate money inefficiently, support businesses that should fail, decrease incentives to work, and are happy to pass the mess they create on to future generations.
 
It's delusional leftist politicians who think they can make decisions better than 300 million people can. They allocate money inefficiently, support businesses that should fail, decrease incentives to work, and are happy to pass the mess they create on to future generations.

You are just a lowly physician. You can't possibly understand that. Only the media and the brightest politicians chosen from fields like sports, acting, body building, and wrestling can understand what's best for our economy. Stop embarassing physicians. Let the "experts" run our country.
 
You are just a lowly physician. You can't possibly understand that. Only the media and the brightest politicians chosen from fields like sports, acting, body building, and wrestling can understand what's best for our economy. Stop embarassing physicians. Let the "experts" run our country.

Politicians from the fields you mentioned should not be drafting fiscal or monatary policy. Reaganomics demonstrates what happens when actors become economists with power.

When you rant on this site, you make physicians look ill informed. You are an expert in anesthesiology. Larry Summers and Ben Bernanke are experts in economics. Your rantings about Obama and the economy are as informed as Larry Summers would be on morning rounds in the SICU.
 
Reaganomics demonstrates what happens when actors become economists with power.

True. Just as Obamanomics illustrates when a community organizer with no understanding of math or economics becomes an economist with power.

Larry Summers and Ben Bernanke are experts in economics.

Ridiculous. They are agenda based economists; hardly experts.

Your rantings about Obama and the economy are as informed as Larry Summers would be on morning rounds in the SICU.

Even more ridiculous unless Larry Summers has spent years rounding in SICU's, which I highly doubt. You have no idea what people's experiences are prior to being anesthesiologists, and your conclusion that physicians can't be experts in another field is just incorrect. According to you Ron Paul can't possibly understand economics simply because he is a physician.
 
I love the political threads, so divisive and inflammatory. Attacking without offering any real contradictory evidence, etc.
One thing is for sure, the longer he's in office the more you see the "hope, than change".
He's no different than anyone else and his stuffed shirt is showing.
However it's good to see that everyone is behind maintaining and expanding the entitlement programs and the tax cuts are continuing.👍
 
I think the point is that the United States economy is not "the most simliest of mathematical basics." That's why extremely intelligent people, such a physicians, often sound very uninformed when they venture out of medicine and into economics.

What other "extremely intelligent people" would you put your trust into then? "Economists" and analysts working (i.e. agenda promoting) for large Wall Street firms? Hey, wait, aren't those the same guys that created a mess of epic proportions, while everyone who pays taxes bailed out their poor decision making?

It's easy for them to promote a free market when it's the machinist losing his job NOT just because of "cheaper labor" but often huge state subsidies from emerging economies, but when the white shoe boys are faced with losses the "free market" isn't so cool anymore.
 
Politicians from the fields you mentioned should not be drafting fiscal or monatary policy. Reaganomics demonstrates what happens when actors become economists with power.

When you rant on this site, you make physicians look ill informed. You are an expert in anesthesiology. Larry Summers and Ben Bernanke are experts in economics. Your rantings about Obama and the economy are as informed as Larry Summers would be on morning rounds in the SICU.

They are experts in their own version of economic THEORY. And, like Narc has stated, they absolutely have an agenda.

How about Henry ("Hank") Paulson, our "venerable" former Treasury Secretary? Wait, wasn't he CEO and Chairman of the Board at Goldman Sachs prior to taking that "office"???

Dude you need to take the blinders off.
 
True. Just as Obamanomics illustrates when a community organizer with no understanding of math or economics becomes an economist with power.



Ridiculous. They are agenda based economists; hardly experts.



Even more ridiculous unless Larry Summers has spent years rounding in SICU's, which I highly doubt. You have no idea what people's experiences are prior to being anesthesiologists, and your conclusion that physicians can't be experts in another field is just incorrect. According to you Ron Paul can't possibly understand economics simply because he is a physician.

Umm....Ron Paul doesn't understand economics.
 
Yo, check it. I ain't no economist, just a simpleton medical man. but I see this country going to SH%^ and it is so depressing. I stay awake most night looking at the national debt clock on my computer and when I manage to sleep, it shows up in my nightmares. I never get to wake up with a boner no more. This problem is not solely Obama's fault, but he certainly did not help. America has become a nation of lazy bums wanting an easy buck. People like Mark Zuckerberg and wall street brokers are idols people look to when they want to get rich. The f*&^ did they ever create, and I mean really create. We exported all our manufacturing overseas and importing products from them so we spend and spend but not creating. then we get all hot and bothered because unemployment is high, as we should. While raising taxes and cutting spending are two ways of lowering the debt short term, no one really like those options. A third option that no one has pointed out is increasing our GDP. To do that, this nation as a whole need to stop being so f*&$ing lazy. Things are not that bad yet because even though our debt may be 13 trillions or so, as a percentage of our GDP it is manageable.... but probably not for long. check out this site for our country's debt:GDP compared to other countries:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html
 
I stay awake most night looking at the national debt clock on my computer and when I manage to sleep, it shows up in my nightmares. I never get to wake up with a boner no more.

Wow, and I thought the complete lack of national leadership and a self-centered voting public had me depressed.

You have a, uh, different writing style, but your points are very clear, direct, and on target.
 
Yes, very clear and direct. Specific too. All we have to do is stop being lazy and increase our GDP. Please run this blueprint to the White House asap.
 
Yes, very clear and direct. Specific too. All we have to do is stop being lazy and increase our GDP. Please run this blueprint to the White House asap.

Well, like I said, I am no economist, just a dumb medical student. But for a starter, the government can stop harassing American farmers and give them an incentive to grow sh&%. We have the technology to grow food for the rest of the world, why not use it and export food. We can also give tax breaks to businesses that actually create goods. those are a couple of things the government can do to stimulate production and increase our GDP. Education and science are also vital because those are where the true investments in our future lies. So instead of cutting spending in those area, I would increase it over time as much as we can afford. But American laziness is a systemic problem that the government alone cannot solve. You can't ask the government for a magical plan that make us less lazy. The public has to really do something if they want to get out of this.
 
Laziness is human nature, for some more than others. The government isn't the answer to laziness. It allows people to act on their innate laziness through social programs- food stamps, section 8, medicaid etc. People won't work if their lifestyle isn't significantly improved through work. I certainly wouldn't. The options are better paying jobs or worse welfare programs. Better paying jobs would be great except international compet
ition won't allow it for low end labor. That leaves one option.
 
The whole entitlement problem was re-emphasized to me again yesterday morning in pre-op evaluation clinic when 3 out of the 7 patients I saw in the morning asked me if I could write them a note or help them get SS Disability. 2 of the 3 were 40-something young, healthy guys just coming for some simple procedure (inguinal hernia, etc). I looked one in the face and asked him "you're here for evaluation before you're put under Anesthesia, what in the world makes you think I have any bearing on you getting disability?"

Granted this is a lower socioeconomic setting University public hospital, but the level of wanting handouts is beyond ridiculous.
 
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Now we know where to turn for all our latest well-educated, star-espoused political opinions... Justin Bieber!

"You guys are evil," he jokingly tells Vanessa Grigoriadis in an upcoming interview with Rolling Stone. "Canada's the best country in the world. We go to the doctor and we don't need to worry about paying him, but here, your whole life, you're broke because of medical bills. My bodyguard's [COLOR=green ! important][COLOR=green ! important]baby[/COLOR][/COLOR] was premature, and now he has to pay for it. In Canada, if your baby's premature, he stays in the hospital as long as he needs to, and then you go home."
 
A third option that no one has pointed out is increasing our GDP. To do that, this nation as a whole need to stop being so f*&$ing lazy.

Isn't the productivity of US workers the highest in the world, in terms of hours per week worked and actual value created per unit time? I seem to recall reading that somewhere, sometime (every few months of every year that I've been alive and paying attention).

There's a worthless nonproductive underclass in every society. Maybe (maybe) we over-enable ours. But our nation's problem isn't laziness. Ask all the unemployed people who've watched their jobs and industries evaporate.


Our problem is simple. We spend too much money, we live beyond our means, we borrow from Peter to pay Paul, we prefer cheap foreign goods over more expensive domestic goods. Even if we could flog more production out of the nation's workers, what's the point if that extra creative energy just feeds the spending cancer?


Trajan said:
A truly balanced budget is not desirable. Remember, part of Alexander Hamilton's genius was recognizing that our nation should assume a national debt in the first place. Virtually all economists agree that a balanced budget is actually a bad thing when we are talking about growing the national economy of the United States.

There is such a thing as managable debt, and the managable interest on that managable debt is a fair price for the opportunities and growth it affords today. Our state and federal governments have long since passed "managable" though.

There is only one way that running continual deficits can possibly be sustainable, and that is inflation courtesy of a fiat currency (which effectively reduces or holds constant the actual value of that debt, even as the digits keep climbing). But inflation is just a hidden tax on every citizen - savers, producers, and sloths alike.

The irony is that it's the tax-the-rich-more crowd (that tends to be toward the left, and supportive of president Obama) that has been least vocal and critical of this. Inflation via quantitative easement is the ultimate hidden and regressive tax. The wealthy won't notice a 25% increase in food prices. The unemployed and poor sure will.

Do you really think what we've got and what we're doing is preferable to keeping debt in check in the first place?


Hamilton is famous and remembered because he successfully argued for the federal government to assume the states' Revolutionary War debt, and was the driving force behind establishing a central bank (among other things ... he did a little bit of writing, too). That kind of debt and monetary policy has N O T H I N G to do with the problems and fiscal habits we have today.
 
The American voting public loves to blame DC when it's them that put DC in power and DC is doing exactly what they want.

"Americans seems to be aware of the debt problem, yet they still want to see spending increases—rather than decreases—in 16 out of 18 major categories, with education at the top. They also oppose tax increases by a signification spread."

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2011/02/15/3-big-lies-about-cutting-the-deficit

And I'm sure if you polled the voters they'd also be against high interest rates and also inflation caused by money printing which happens to be the 2 ways that the debt caused by spending increases and tax cuts will need to be funded. So what you have is a country of voters, that may or may not be lazy but are certainly spoiled and delusional, that want more spending, less taxes, low interest rates, and low inflation. Mathematically impossible. If Larry Summers can't figure that out and advise the president accordingly, then he's hardly an expert worth listening to. Maybe he should go on SICU rounds. Couldn't really be much worse there than he already is.
 
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