New Pharmacy Schools

[BMBiology]

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I bet he's also afraid of the Physician Assistant (PA) profession too. That profession is starting to get more recognition, more demand, and more autonomy.

He's fine with PAs because they are under the control of the medical profession. He doesn't like nurses because they have their own board and school. The medical profession has no control over nurses. It is all about money and power to him.

 

[bananaface]

One thing about us pharms is that we are pretty good at counting. 😉 This program has been around for seven years, yet no imitators, hmm? I'd hardly call that 'catching on.' Not much of a slippery slope is it? 😀

I suspect that Creighton was allowed to pursue this type of program because they have an established and successful program. It's not as if they started up as a distance program. They already had an accredited curriculum with staff and other resources in place and were able to rearrange the existing components of their program to meet the needs of the format. The funny thing is that I know lots of med students who watch lectures online instead of going to class. Should I start yelling "slippery slope!"?

 

[Taurus]

One thing about us pharms is that we are pretty good at counting. 😉 This program has been around for seven years, yet no imitators, hmm? I'd hardly call that 'catching on.' Not much of a slippery slope is it? 😀

When brick-and-mortar pharm schools are popping up like mushrooms, there's no need to. 😀

But the precedent has been set. Why the pharm accreditation board let them, who knows.

How many of you knew about Creighton's online pharmd program until I posted it? It doesn't seem like anyone here did. Within 30 seconds, I found 3 online pharmd programs. People here seem to be constantly surprised when new pharm schools open up. How many more brick-and-mortar and online pharmd programs are in the pipeline? Just because you have 1 today doesn't mean you won't have 10 within 5 years.

If pharms are smart, you guys need to take such issues more seriously. I know most of you are not that that far removed from high school. For those of us who have experience and have seen how the business world works, it's far different than the pretty picture that the academics paint.

 

[RxWildcat]

Hey guys, we're high schoolers now. sweet.

 

[terse]

He's fine with PAs because they are under the control of the medical profession. He doesn't like nurses because they have their own board and school. The medical profession has no control over nurses. It is all about money and power to him.

yes, but PA's (like nurses) are forcing physicians to specialize and move away from general practice. a small private clinic would rather hire a bunch of PA's, and one doctor to oversee them, than to hire a bunch of doctors and pay more. it's all about money and reducing costs.

taurus is just worried that all these mid-level practitioners are moving towards advanced doctorate level degrees (DNP, DOT, DPT, PharmD) and the gap is getting smaller. depending on area, i'd be worried too if i was a physician.

 

[Taurus]

taurus is just worried that all these mid-level practitioners are moving towards advanced doctorate level degrees (DNP, DOT, DPT, PharmD) and the gap is getting smaller. depending on area, i'd be worried too if i was a physician.

I'm not as worried as you may think. What I want are structural changes, ie, explicit laws, legal precedents, higher insurance premiums for non-physicians trying to practice medicine, etc. Unless you've been following the other forums, you wouldn't know that the AMA is taking the DNP quite seriously and has passed resolutions. Already, in 7 states, the title of "Doctor" is restricted to physicians in the clinical setting. I like to think I'm informing the lawmakers, insurance executive, physicians, the lay public.

 

[Taurus]

I suspect that Creighton was allowed to pursue this type of program because they have an established and successful program. It's not as if they started up as a distance program. They already had an accredited curriculum with staff and other resources in place and were able to rearrange the existing components of their program to meet the needs of the format.

Yeah, but what if every established pharmd program in US opened an online branch? You don't need to open new schools. Existing schools can easily get more revenue for little additional resources. That's what I'm alluding to.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Yeah, but what if every established pharmd program in US opened an online branch? The school could easily get more revenue for little additional resources. That's what I'm alluding to.

As I stated before, if that hasn't happened in seven years, I don't see it happening tomorrow.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

How many of you knew about Creighton's online pharmd program until I posted it? It doesn't seem like anyone here did. Within 30 seconds, I found 3 online pharmd programs. People here seem to be constantly surprised when new pharm schools open up. How many more brick-and-mortar and online pharmd programs are in the pipeline? Just because you have 1 today doesn't mean you won't have 10 within 5 years.

Nah, there are plenty of dicussion threads in the pre-pharmacy forum about Creighton's online PharmD program. We have established posters who have applied to the program and probably more than a handful who've been admitted. I know we have established posters who are attending the University of Florida's distance education programs. You aren't educating us about anything. I read your posts more for entertainment value anyway. 😀

If pharms are smart, you guys need to take such issues more seriously. I know most of you are not that that far removed from high school. For those of us who have experience and have seen how the business world works, it's far different than the pretty picture that the academics paint.

I just graduated from high school last month. So what??? 🙄

 

[BMBiology]

Within 30 seconds, I found 3 online pharmd programs.

Lets be clear: the University of Florida and Colorado online PharmD program is for working pharmacists who already have a bachelor in pharmacy and now wants to "upgrade" their degree to a doctorate.

Like I said before, I welcome new pharmacy schools. I am not a fear monger like you. I don't know if that shows your insecurity about your own ability to compete or just your lack of understanding about other healthcare professionals or both. But your tactic is not going to work on me and it certainly not going to work on others.

 

[BMBiology]

Already, in 7 states, the title of "Doctor" is restricted to physicians in the clinical setting.

So what happen if I call a DNP a "doctor" or if a DNP introduces herself as a "doctor"? Am I going to be imprisoned for this hideous crime? Give me a break. There is this thing called the constitution.

You and the AMA are taking a politically stupid position. The public will see this as physicians being self-centered, inclusive, and childish. You know who gives doctors a bad name? Doctors! Like Dr. Jan Adams, Kenye West's mother plastic surgeon, who got arrested again for driving while intoxicated:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/26/DD3G11G9AG.DTL

 

[PharmDstudent]

Already, in 7 states, the title of "Doctor" is restricted to physicians in the clinical setting. I like to think I'm informing the lawmakers, insurance executive, physicians, the lay public.

Pharmacists who have EARNED a PharmD are doctors, too. Physicians are not above pharmacists, lawyers, or anyone else who has earned a doctorate in their field. These are independent branches of professional practice, just like medicine.

Go somewhere else and be the pain that you are. There is no need for you to be here, especially in this thread, unless you're considering pharmacy school.

 

[bananaface]

How many of you knew about Creighton's online pharmd program until I posted it?

Maybe we should start asking you questions, since you know everything. Can you tell us about the effect HICP had on the accreditation process? Also, what led to the closing of HICP and who were the key figures involved?

 

[bananaface]

Hey guys, we're high schoolers now. sweet.

Makeup and ponies and stickers and MySpace.com!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm going to ask taurus to the Sadie Hawkins dance! 😍

 

[bananaface]

No fair. I saw him first. He's gonna be MY babydaddy! 😡

 

[BMBiology]

No, no, no. Taurus is mine! I saw him first in the Topics in Healthcare forum. I 😍 fear mongers. They always give me a good scare.

 

[bananaface]

But I already have my baby name picked out. It's gonna be "Doctor", just like his daddy!

 

[medicalCPA]

I loove this thread now.

 

[BMBiology]

I have already changed my last name to Doctor so our adopted baby will be Doctor Doctor or just Double-D for short.

 

[bananaface]

You kid already has his own song. I guess you win. Have fun at the fertility clinic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjSjmw_7uIE

Direct link won't work. Lame.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

But but but...I wanted him to give my daughter a "sister from another mister!"

 

[omnione]

How many of you knew about Creighton's online pharmd program until I posted it? It doesn't seem like anyone here did. Within 30 seconds, I found 3 online pharmd programs. People here seem to be constantly surprised when new pharm schools open up. How many more brick-and-mortar and online pharmd programs are in the pipeline? Just because you have 1 today doesn't mean you won't have 10 within 5 years.

Ummmm........I did. 🙄

You do need to consider that these students aren't getting a "packaged" curriculum like home-schooled students might get. They all have to listen and watch the same lectures I attend in-person, (I'm a campus-based student by the way), the the same exams in the presence of a qualified proctor, and of course, deal with the rotations and or post-graduate residencies like campus-based students. In principle, all the web-based students are practically the same as the pharmacy and medical students who skip class everyday except for exams. I will admit that the lab components that require on-campus presence should be longer despite the difficulties of temporary relocation though. Yet, we're not talking about some low rent training program like those Video Professor programs or something of the sort.

Do also note that there's a campus-based program at Creighton program that has been there for decades. and became the foundation for the web program. Your concerns about online pharmacy programs would be more concerning if the AACP allowed schools to allow online-only programs. That would be a more dangerous precedent I don't see coming to fruition due to the increased rigor and logistics involved in a Pharm.D. program. Logistics, especially the time and resources needed to maintain an online program, has been the major deterrant to pharmacy schools thinking about supplementing their campus program with an online program.

 

[MacGyver]

Unfortunately, the medical school accreditation orgs tried to set a cap in medical schools but courts ruled that they weren't allowed to. At least that's what my pharm school dean told me.

Thats a flat out lie. Tell your dean to stick to stuff he actually knows about.

Provided you meet the LCME criteria, you can open up as many new med schools as you want.

 

[MacGyver]

I agree with this.

But I want to ask, if the courts ruled that there could not be a cap on medical schools, how come the number of medical schools was kept constant for 20+ years (leading to a "critical shortfall" of doctors)?

This is flat out wrong. DO schools have been expanding since hte 1970s. There are currently 38 new/planned med schools which includes about 60% DO programs and 40% MD programs. There's a list of them in the allopathic forum.

Med schools are more expensive to run than other types of schools. You need agreements with hospitals (although some of the new crappy med schools dont provide clinical training and you have to find it on your own) and you need clinical faculty.

 

[pharmwannebe2]

Jefferson is opening a pharmacy school in fall, and I am hearing rumors that drexel is opening one in 2010. My only concern is losing teachers. From what I hear, we have lost some good teachers and administrators to Jefferson because they got high positions with high pays offerred there. But other than that, nah. Jefferson has always had good relationships with USP, especially their residency programs and our graduates. Some of our clinical pharmacy faculty also practices there.

Philadelphia is having many pharmacy schools now. Starting fall, PA will have 7 - USP, temple, Upitt, LECOM, Wilkes, Jefferson and Duquesne

pfsh, no wonder compared to new mexico pharmacists have little authorities in PA

god i know what you mean. i also heard drexel is opening up a pharm school. and we have already lost a lot of pharmacy teachers to jefferson i wonder if we are going to be able to replace them. i heard it is hard and "pharmacy might be perminately finish at USP" but all my friends are non-pharmacy and are just jealous.

 

[mass]

How many graduates do the schools produce per year (roughly)

 

[whitewasheddesi]

god i know what you mean. i also heard drexel is opening up a pharm school. and we have already lost a lot of pharmacy teachers to jefferson i wonder if we are going to be able to replace them. i heard it is hard and "pharmacy might be perminately finish at USP" but all my friends are non-pharmacy and are just jealous.

haha, USP is not getting rid of pharmacy. They're just crazily expanding. I suggest take over PCOM,

1) USP's pride and independence wont be hurt because its too full of itself to merge with Penn

2) USP will have DO and PsyD degrees as well. When Hannemahn had the whole mess going on several years ago, USP was one of the losing bidders, or so I hear

3)PCOM will have all the degrees USP offers to give to their DO students, e.g. MPH, PhD in Health Policy, Pharmaceutical MBA, Biomedical writing, Pharmacology/Toxicology, etc.

Perfect marriage

sorry, no more irrelevant posts from me

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Provided you meet the LCME criteria, you can open up as many new med schools as you want.

Uh...yeah...isn't that basically what I said? There is nothing stopping them from opening?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Med schools are more expensive to run than other types of schools. You need agreements with hospitals (although some of the new crappy med schools dont provide clinical training and you have to find it on your own) and you need clinical faculty.

That sounds like pharmacy school. They have to get agreements with hospitals, local retail pharmacies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. They also require the faculty in the clinical department to have clinical duties. Granted, there are less rotations, but it's still a similar setup.

 

[bananaface]

My school has a contract with a local candy factory instead of a hospital. For our "clinical" experience we do simulated dispensing using M&Ms. The diversion rate is really high for some reason. I'm pretty good at counseling. I just make sure my patients know that M&M's melt in their mouth, not in their nose.

 

[norafena]

I agree with this.

But I want to ask, if the courts ruled that there could not be a cap on medical schools, how come the number of medical schools was kept constant for 20+ years (leading to a "critical shortfall" of doctors)?

Medical school is going that path too. Not sure if it will go at the same pace as pharm though.
In MN they are talking about starting new schools that graduates ONLY family physicians. They are also having extensive programs with the Mayo clinic to attract more students from minorities and increasing classes size.
I am OK with creating more schools increasing to meet the shortage. However, they all have to meet the same standards to make it fair for the students, the patients and the profession.

 

[Quiksilver]

This is for people already in pharmacy schools or pharmacists.

Are there any new pharmacy schools opening up in your state? Are you concerned? What do you think about it?

In New York State, we had University of Buffalo, Albany, Long Island University, and St Johns University. For the most part, we met demand of pharmacists with those few schools. However in the last year, St John Fisher opened and now Touro is about to open another one. It wont be long before we have a surplus (a really serious debate) here. I think NYS can handle the new students from St John Fisher, but not from a 2nd one. Touro opening up would mean three pharmacy schools in New York City graduating an average of 750 pharmacists at least per year!

How about you guys? Is there anyway we can prevent a school from opening?

oh and D'youville i opening a school in buffalo in the next few years, you missed that one. But dont worry, most UB grads leave the state anyways

 

[collegegirl247]

oh and D'youville i opening a school in buffalo in the next few years, you missed that one. But dont worry, most UB grads leave the state anyways

D'youville...opening a pharmacy school...thats gotta be a joke! lol

 

[Caverject]

Can you tell us about the effect HICP had on the accreditation process? Also, what led to the closing of HICP and who were the key figures involved?

Yes, please inform us

 

[mass]

So will anyone answer my question about how many pharm graduates are being produced please.

 

[bananaface]

It should be someplace on the AACP page under school data. I can't open their PDFs here at work.

Here's a link to enrollment data for 2006.
http://www.aacp.org/site/pdf.asp?TP=/Docs/MainNavigation/InstitutionalData/8234_Enrollments.pdf

I'd guestimate 90 of the 100+ schools are curently mature enough to be producing new grads * avg class size 120-150 (guess) * 90% attrition (another guess) = roughly 10K-12K.