DORoe

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I think their point is finding good people to teach at these institutions is going to be difficult. I agree expanding the profession seems good at first, but the more I think about it the more I'm not sure. As has been stated the # of good DO residency's is not equal to the number of graduating DO's which forces more people to go into allopathic residency's. Now this can be debated, but if the AOA wishes to keep the distinction between DO and MD it does not serve them well to be sending so many people into MD residency's. More than likely these DO's will adopt a more MD approach (whatever that means) and will lose their DOedness (i think i invented a new word here). Plus I really don't think that Florida is an underserved areas they have a lot of medical schools in that state already. I think that these schools are going after the $ on this one. For example when I think of LECOM I know that a lot of people don't go to school there because of the horrible weather. LECOM thinks "You know if we opened up a school in a more favorable locale we could get these students that don't want to live in Dreary Erie." So they open the Bradenton campus. I guess we will all have to wait and see how the education is down there I have heard that some good prof's are moving there so it should be ok.
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by subtlewonder
I don't understand the reasoning behind the above comments...Just because new DO schools are being built and in nice sunny locations...that devalues the degree? If anything, the opening of DO schools is a good thing. It means that our profession is expanding and will gain more recognition. Only 7% of physicians now are DOs! Secondly I think its good that they are opening schools in underserved areas that also happen to be nice places to live...who wants to go to school in Wyoming or Idaho?
Maybe you wanted to add to the thread that was talking about this instead of making a new thread?

I agree with you though. I see it as a good thing as long as good professors can be found and the facilities are good.
 
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DSM

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Originally posted by DORoe
I think their point is finding good people to teach at these institutions is going to be difficult. I agree expanding the profession seems good at first, but the more I think about it the more I'm not sure. As has been stated the # of good DO residency's is not equal to the number of graduating DO's which forces more people to go into allopathic residency's. Now this can be debated, but if the AOA wishes to keep the distinction between DO and MD it does not serve them well to be sending so many people into MD residency's. More than likely these DO's will adopt a more MD approach (whatever that means) and will lose their DOedness (i think i invented a new word here). Plus I really don't think that Florida is an underserved areas they have a lot of medical schools in that state already. I think that these schools are going after the $ on this one. For example when I think of LECOM I know that a lot of people don't go to school there because of the horrible weather. LECOM thinks "You know if we opened up a school in a more favorable locale we could get these students that don't want to live in Dreary Erie." So they open the Bradenton campus. I guess we will all have to wait and see how the education is down there I have heard that some good prof's are moving there so it should be ok.

I don't think a school's location has any relevence as to the ability to educate quality physicians. I think it is a good move on their part to reach students who might not have affiliations with the general area of their current school LECOM. I personally, live in rural Mississippi and I am seriously considering FLECOM but I probably would not consider LECOM because of the distance from my home base. Many reasons factor into why a student chooses a particular school. Location is just one of them. From what I understand there are established professors heading up the team in FLECOM. I think each student should weigh out the options of the individual school and choose based on their own needs. Personally, I would LOVE to be accepted to FLECOM and I am working my way there.:D
 

DSM

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Originally posted by Boomer
If these schools have TRUE teaching hospital affiliations, then I see nothing wrong with opening them.

However, I suspect this will not be the case, and students will find themselves stranded come 3rd and 4th year.

Honestly, until the AOA can provide quality clinical training sites for DOs (i.e. good residencies), then I don't understand why they continue to allow the establishment of new schools and campuses.

How do you know that they do not have TRUE teaching hospital affiliations? I think most of the grousing here is pessimism and human nature at its usual, suspicious of anything "new". Like I said in another thread, if an established school is opening a new school in another area run by experienced professors, don't you think they will know what they are doing?

Why would a school open up only to run into trouble in the third year? Financially, that would be suicide for the school. They have a buttload of money invested in a school. They still have to recruit more students so why would they shoot themselves in the foot and NOT be affiliated with a good teaching hospital? These guys want to make money so why would they NOT offer a quality program?

Now before you all holler and scream, it is only about the almighty dollar, I presume when you get into the real world you don't intend to donate all your time and talents and you will be intending to make some money. Private institutations NEED to make a profit and even to some degree public ones because if they do not...........they no longer exist.
 

doc erica

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lecom in erie already has a florida hopital affiliated with it (Manatee Memorial), that is 4 miles from the new campus. I believe that is one reason they chose that area for a new campus site. Lakewood ranch has also just built a new hospital 2 miles from the campus (we're talking HUGE) and they will also be affiliated with that hospital.
 

bigmuny

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What Boomer means is that at MD schools they have paid faculty and organized medical education departments in their school teaching hospital(a true teaching hospital, they teach, do research, ect..). Whereas in DO schools all the clinical faculty are volunteer(DO schools pay nothing for your third and fourth year, wonder why new schools are openning as fast as they are?) and often there is no organized curriculum for years 3/4(no regularly scheduled didactics, testing, outside lectures, ect..) and your time is spent in a community hospital(few or no residency programs, no research, little actual teaching, little pathology, and possibly little hands on experience).
 

bigmuny

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Originally posted by subtlewonder
Yeah, you're right Bigmuny. Since MD programs are far more superior everyone here should seriously question becoming a DO, especially at these new schools and should only strive for MD programs. These new schools will be horrible and working in a community hospitals will not give us the necessary experience we need. We'll probably all fail, waste our money, and won't pass the boards. Man, I'm so glad that I ran into you.

Bigmuny talking to a patient in 10 years...."hmm, it appears that you have a small mole on your arm....however, I wouldn't even bother trying to remove it because it's probably malignant and the cancer has most likely spread throughout your body. Have you considered filing for a life insurance policy?"...

I will say one last thing to everyone...Listen up people, if you want to become good doctors and have the will and determination, you can go all the way (especially if you've made it this far). The same way that new institutions have been criticized in the past (including Andrew Still's first osteopathic school), they will be criticized today. Follow your dreams and have faith. Some people in this world gain pleasure from trying to discourage others and pointing out the worst instead of focusing on the good.


I am not being critical of any school in particular(new or old). I am being critical of osteopathic medical education in general(at least clinical, pre-clinical seems pretty good). I am a DO student, will be a DO(god willing), and proud of it. Given that I am part of the profession, I feel I am obligated and have every right to be critical(as that is the only way things get better), though in this situation I was not really being critical but stating the facts. I don't want allopathic medical education to be the standard. I want us to have as good an educational experience if not better than our md friends. However, as of yet we are not doing that in clinical or post-grad education. You can choose not to like what I have to say, but understand that I want our/my profession to be as good as it can. I want this for me, patients, and future students.
 

MeowMix

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I think the comments about the quality of clinical education are really important, and shouldn't be dismissed even if we are getting away from the topic of new locations.

This was my primary concern with the DO schools I interviewed at; when I looked at my opportunities for 3rd and 4th year, I was dismayed by the choice of training sites, the large number of students competing via lottery, and the need to move out of state after second year.

What is one supposed to think when the dean tells your interview group that he can't find enough ob/gyns who are willing to take students for rotations, and then you notice that this school's ob/gyn rotation is 4 weeks compared to 6 or 8 for every other school?
 

johnthestreak

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in reply to the original post, i don't think that new schools are a "good thing." i think they are a bad thing.
what's the point? to produce more graduates than the aoa can handle. wait a minute, that's going on right now. already half of all DO med students enter into ACGME residencies either because there are not enough DO residencies or they just aren't good enough (the residencies). so what happens when even more students graduate? what will the aoa do then? i'll tell you, nothing. the same 'ole thing they've been doing, or maybe they'll open up another school, they don't care as long as they're paid. and how much do you think this school is going to cost anyway? considering that only a couple of DO schools are public and most are private. i currently attend a DO school and my tuition just got bumped up to $33,000. that is ridiculous.
the argument that these are medically underserved areas is just as ridiculous. i can almost guarrantee that these new schools (NV or FL) will have rotation sites in other states, or remote areas of their state. well at least for their 3rd yr, 4th yr they'll be thrown out in the cold having to set up their own spots to rotate.
so how does that help those in that medically underserved area? it doesn't. most students will only live there for 2 years and then move for their rotations (out in the middle of nowhere and far from their school), try to hopefully get a residency (the only ones left will be acgme FP), and then move back home dissillusioned with the last x years of their lives.
and that's how the story ends, another doc pissed at the system that he at some point wanted to help.
 

DocRadak

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"More med schools IS a good thing" -Who the hell wrote this post, a grade school student???

First of all, everybody who is mad that more schools are opening up, you're stupid. You should be in the osteopathic field of medicine because you love it and want it become better known to the world. How is a profession going to get the credit it deserves with only 15-20 schools teaching it. The more schools that are started, whether they are branch campuses or new schools, the better it is for the osteopathic profession. Look at the reputations of allopathic schools, students, and physicians... way better off than osteopathic as of right now because they have tons of schools in the U.S. Opening new osteopathic schools will only better the profession for all of us.

Secondly, I completely disagree with the original post. I have lived in Wyoming my whole life and would have loved going to a med school here. I think, one given a chance, a lot of you probably would love it here too. Its not just flat plains, horses and cows, and dust devils. We have some great professors, students, and facilities in WY and we could use a med school to help return some physicians to Wyoming. Don?t knock it till you try it little boy.

Third, LECOM - Bradenton here I come and it feels great. I'm so pumped to be in the first class of this new branch campus and I'm excited as hell to help getting this school the credit it needs to be a well-known college of osteopathic medicine. Also, to prove to you doubting med students that a new campus in a small Florida town WILL be successful and produce a great bunch of D.O.'s.

F.Y.M. A.S.M.D.

FLECOM Class of 2008

Peace
 
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