No auditions/away rotations for IM and doing only electives 4th year?

[drkube]

Hey all, current 3rd year- soon to be 4th year. Im planning on going into internal medicine, and our current IM chair recommends that we do 5-6 audition rotations. I've heard mixed opinions on this and was thinking about foregoing them and pursuing elective rotations in different IM subspecialties (allergy, rheum, etc.) instead. I am a pretty average applicant (mid 220s step 1, 600 level 1, mostly passes). What do you guys think? I'm planning to apply pretty broadly.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[QueenJames]

Bump.

 

[Splenda88]

I don't how it is in the DO world... In the MD world, you do an audition (or away rotation) if you want to have a shot at a specific program.


Based on your stats, you should be ok for low tier university programs. You can throw in there a few reach mid-tier ones (programs like USF, UF etc...).

IM is a wide-open specialty for US students with no red flags; therefore, I would not spend any money doing away rotation(s) if I were in your position.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Maybe want to do 1 or 2 for programs that are slightly out of reach where you really want to go and see what the environment is like. If you only care about matching, 220s should be okay to match somewhere in IM

 

[drkube]

If you only care about matching, 220s should be okay to match somewhere in IM

Yeah I just want to match somewhere. Don't really care where I go. A lot of my classmates are doing auditions and I just feel like the odd one out not doing any.

 

[camng11]

Yeah I just want to match somewhere. Don't really care where I go. A lot of my classmates are doing auditions and I just feel like the odd one out not doing any.

If you dont care where you go why audition? Doesn't make sense. Thats the whole point of auditions lol. Maybe do a subi to get a LOR, but other than that, just relax.

 

[sunshinefl]

Hey all, current 3rd year- soon to be 4th year. Im planning on going into internal medicine, and our current IM chair recommends that we do 5-6 audition rotations. I've heard mixed opinions on this and was thinking about foregoing them and pursuing elective rotations in different IM subspecialties (allergy, rheum, etc.) instead. I am a pretty average applicant (mid 220s step 1, 600 level 1, mostly passes). What do you guys think? I'm planning to apply pretty broadly.

Can I ask you a dumb question, being a year behind you? When you fill in 4th year rotations via VSLO/any means, what defines if it’s an audition vs a sub-I vs an elective vs simply an “away”?

 

[drkube]

If you dont care where you go why audition?

I guess my concern is if I get asked during interviews why I didn't audition at that particular program, or if I get asked why my schedule looks so "easy". Just being a little neurotic I suppose

Can I ask you a dumb question, being a year behind you? When you fill in 4th year rotations via VSLO/any means, what defines if it’s an audition vs a sub-I vs an elective vs simply an “away”?

My school doesn't have sub-Is, so i'm not 100% sure, but here's what I remember.
A sub-I is a rotation where you function as an intern for the rotation, usually at your home institution. A sub-I can be at an away.
An away is a rotation not at your home institution.
An audition is an away but you're essentially on a month long interview, with an emphasis on impressing. You basically have to put in 110% while you're there. Pretty common among DO schools.

 

[Dr. Death]

Hey all, current 3rd year- soon to be 4th year. Im planning on going into internal medicine, and our current IM chair recommends that we do 5-6 audition rotations. I've heard mixed opinions on this and was thinking about foregoing them and pursuing elective rotations in different IM subspecialties (allergy, rheum, etc.) instead. I am a pretty average applicant (mid 220s step 1, 600 level 1, mostly passes). What do you guys think? I'm planning to apply pretty broadly.

Old school philosophy. Do 1 to get a Letter of Rec.

 

[DO2015CA]

Can I ask you a dumb question, being a year behind you? When you fill in 4th year rotations via VSLO/any means, what defines if it’s an audition vs a sub-I vs an elective vs simply an “away”?

A lot of words to basically mean the same thing. Some people call auditions and some Sub-I. Sub-I is the formal name used on VSAS, where as audition is a slang term used in conversation. They are both with the general inpatient team for that specialty. An away is just a general term for any rotation not at your home base. They are used when you take a rotation that’s not with the general floor team (ex: endo, nephro, etc.). Lastly, every rotation 4th year is an elective regardless if you are at home or away. You have finished your core rotations.

Just because you can’t get a sub-I doesn’t mean an away elective in a subspecialty can’t be helpful. It’s still a way for the program to get to know you. It’s just more chill and laid back.

If you want the place and can get a sub-I shoot for that first.

 

[sunshinefl]

A lot of words to basically mean the same thing. Some people call auditions and some Sub-I. Sub-I is the formal name used on VSAS, where as audition is a slang term used in conversation. They are both with the general inpatient team for that specialty. An away is just a general term for any rotation not at your home base. They are used when you take a rotation that’s not with the general floor team (ex: endo, nephro, etc.). Lastly, every rotation 4th year is an elective regardless if you are at home or away. You have finished your core rotations.

Just because you can’t get a sub-I doesn’t mean an away elective in a subspecialty can’t be helpful. It’s still a way for the program to get to know you. It’s just more chill and laid back.

If you want the place and can get a sub-I shoot for that first.

Thanks so much, that was very thorough!!! It might seem premature but I’m just trying to figure it out. At the start of 4th year I have 6 elective blocks, then some core stuff, and then at the very end of 4th year I have an IM selective to fill. I will most likely be applying to IM. I don’t want to do 6/7 sub-Is (that’s crazy!) but I would like to do some related electives like rheum, IM, etc including at my core rotation site but would still have to apply. Anyway just explaining my life, not probing you! 🙂

 

[QueenJames]

Do we need a LOR from the place we do an elective at?

Or can we get one later in the app cycle (say Octoberish...) and send that to update our ERAS file?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Yeah I just want to match somewhere. Don't really care where I go. A lot of my classmates are doing auditions and I just feel like the odd one out not doing any.

You should do one or two to try and get a letter IMO. You can match without, but its getting tougher.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I envy the schools that don’t require multiple subs Is 4th year.

Really? My school doesn't require them, but I will be doing at least 3. I think this is one of the few ways we can stick out other than 'board scores.'

 

[DO2015CA]

Do we need a LOR from the place we do an elective at?

Or can we get one later in the app cycle (say Octoberish...) and send that to update our ERAS file?

I did not get a letter from my auditions because I felt I already had 3 really strong ones and where I auditioned weren’t with people who are big names in the field. Without a huge name in the field, the LOR only mattered for regional programs. What do PDs care if your LOR is from your home program or another program across the country from them? This of course is Also going to depend on the specialty you are applying to as well. Some specialties want thorough letters with people that know you well regardless of where they are from and some specialties will want a letter from an outside program so that they are sure it’s not just your home institution being nice.

Secondly, The problem is some letter writers take forever to upload. It’s speciality dependent, but I had a bunch of interview offers prior to the MSPE being released (10/15). So right at 10/1 when the programs can start downloading apps I started getting interviews.

 

[sunshinefl]

I did not get a letter from my auditions because I felt I already had 3 really strong ones and where I auditioned weren’t with people who are big names in the field. Without a huge name in the field, the LOR only mattered for regional programs. What do PDs care if your LOR is from your home program or another program across the country from them? This of course is Also going to depend on the specialty you are applying to as well. Some specialties want thorough letters with people that know you well regardless of where they are from and some specialties will want a letter from an outside program so that they are sure it’s not just your home institution being nice.

Secondly, The problem is some letter writers take forever to upload. It’s speciality dependent, but I had a bunch of interview offers prior to the MSPE being released (10/15). So right at 10/1 when the programs can start downloading apps I started getting interviews.

How early can you make an Eras account for the purposes of uploading letters? I read somewhere (maybe SDN?) you can make one during 3rd year, but then I spent hours last night trying to get that from an official website and never got an answer.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

How early can you make an Eras account for the purposes of uploading letters? I read somewhere (maybe SDN?) you can make one during 3rd year, but then I spent hours last night trying to get that from an official website and never got an answer.

You get a token at the beginning of third year, the only thing you can do with it is get letters till the app opens.

 

[sunshinefl]

You get a token at the beginning of third year, the only thing you can do with it is get letters till the app opens.

Thank you!!!!!!!

 

[Rekt]

DOs should be doing multiple aways, for any specialty, even IM. The people who matched at the best programs from my school either had multiple aways at university programs and/or had >250s. A few people I know with even <220 matched fairly repesctable university programs because they did an away there. Also most of my close friends went IM and on every interview they were asked specifically about the rigorousness of their rotations and doing aways will absolve some of that questionability of your clinical training. Not only that, but aways will allow some growth if you're given appropriate responsibility.

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm just going to leave a reminder here for DO students that what you read on the internet about aways is tailored to MD students unless otherwise specified. Knowing that, it would behoove DO students to do aways even in fields that don't traditionally need them (or just 1 to get a letter). Do not unknowingly sabotage yourself because you read a thread in the allo forum saying you don't need an away for xyz because the reality is that they just play by a different set of rules and usually have a home program on top of that. Go out there and bust ass. The consensus in the MD world is to not do them unless specified for competitive specialties and certain circumstances. You don't have that luxury.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I will add a vote for doing aways, I am now thinking even the best scoring students should do at least 1 or 2 (before I thought none, but the game is changing). We need that legitimization for our rotations, and if you can get an LOR its valuable. Too many people this last match only matched cause of aways. The average DO student should be doing them for sure unless they want primary care.

 

[sunshinefl]

I will add a vote for doing aways, I am now thinking even the best scoring students should do at least 1 or 2 (before I thought none, but the game is changing). We need that legitimization for our rotations, and if you can get an LOR its valuable. Too many people this last match only matched cause of aways. The average DO student should be doing them for sure unless they want primary care.

I just want IM primary care most likely, still entertaining rheum.

 

[QueenJames]

Buddy matched with no aways after not getting EM.

Said that you better have a USMLE and apply broadly.

 

[drkube]

Buddy matched with no aways after not getting EM.

Said that you better have a USMLE and apply broadly.

he didn't match EM but scrambled into an IM residency?

 

[usc_92]

Reviving this thread instead of starting a new topic, wondering if I should be doing auditions as well. Aiming for a program that confers a reasonable chance at pulmCC fellowship after residency. 242 Step 1, should honor all of my third year rotations (great evals and COMATs; school doesn't determine honors until after summer), great letters.

 

[anon6134]

Reviving this thread instead of starting a new topic, wondering if I should be doing auditions as well. Aiming for a program that confers a reasonable chance at pulmCC fellowship after residency. 242 Step 1, should honor all of my third year rotations (great evals and COMATs; school doesn't determine honors until after summer), great letters.

You should audition at a program that you have a particular interest in matching at.

If you don't have a particular program or area, then as a DO you should do an away/subI at a well known program so you can get a letter attesting to your abilities

 

[PossibleEMapplicant]

I guess my concern is if I get asked during interviews why I didn't audition at that particular program, or if I get asked why my schedule looks so "easy". Just being a little neurotic I suppose



My school doesn't have sub-Is, so i'm not 100% sure, but here's what I remember.
A sub-I is a rotation where you function as an intern for the rotation, usually at your home institution. A sub-I can be at an away.
An away is a rotation not at your home institution.
An audition is an away but you're essentially on a month long interview, with an emphasis on impressing. You basically have to put in 110% while you're there. Pretty common among DO schools.

So an audition isn't necessarily a sub-i ? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[anon6134]

So an audition isn't necessarily a sub-i ? Am I understanding that correctly?

Audition is a made up DO word. A sub-I you are a fourth year med student acting the role of an intern during your rotation. An audition can and usually is a sub-I. On VSAS it may specifically say sub-I, but the reality is if you are rotating in the specialty of your choice at an away institution (IE not your own), you are expected to perform at the level of the intern on that service. AKA a sub-I

 

[hungrydoc710]

Damn what happened with QueenJames profile
@Goro

 

[Goro]

Damn what happened with QueenJames profile
@Goro

Probably disobeyed multiple earning to knock off bad behavior

 

[Cheeni17]

If you look better on paper than in RL don’t do them

If you think you are better than your paper app states do them

For the dude who makes 240s usmle above he does not have to do SUBI to get a decent IM program. Not at all. But if he or she wants a specific program and thinks they can do better than their app shows give it a shot.

A lot of people just shoot themselves in the foot with subis