No ER/SICU/MICU exp....

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TaiShan

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Will I be a bad surg intern? I did not take ER/MICU/SICU in my third/fourth years and am not really comfortable with thoughts of running codes/managing crashing pts in ICU. Are there any books I can read to better prepare for the coming SICU months.

Thanks!
 
You'll learn about codes in ACLS. The ICU will be rough no matter how much experience you had in med school, IMHO. Do you have a copy of Marino's ICU Book?
 
ER required?

I didn't think it was all that important.
 
tRmedic21 said:
ER required?

I didn't think it was all that important.
Unless chronic back pain at 2am is important......
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Geez, what medical school doesn't have a required ER rotation?

I thought this was standard.
Huh? I don't know of any schools where an EM rotation is a core one.
 
We have a 3rd year required EM clerkship at our school. It's pretty damn popular here.
 
what intern is comfortable with running codes/ managing crashing ICU patients??

I have had months of SICU, MICU and ER and I still will stop to tie my shoes on the way to a code.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
That's sad. I'd be ashamed.

The answer to your question is: former paramedics and/or those with extensive emergency experience.

Obviously if you have ZERO ICU/ER experience you will be even WORSE off.


Kiss my ass, it's a joke. I'm sure that you'd be real comfortable running your first code you f'in prick
 
OSUdoc08 said:
If you do an ER or ICU rotation as a student, perhaps you can run a code BEFORE internship year.


Sure, if you do rotations at a hospital with no interns/residents or actual doctors.

Unless there are 19 year old EMT's around, I suppose...they usually get all the codes 🙄
 
OSUdoc08 said:
This is exactly my point.

If you do an ER or ICU rotation as a student, perhaps you can run a code BEFORE internship year.



P.S. I ran my first code when I was 19. Yeah, I guess I was kinda nervous.

P.S.S. Have a beer and chill.



Want_A_Cookie.jpg


at least wait until you've actually experienced your clinical years as a med student before running off your mouth. maybe then you'll have some insight as to how it works with what your and everybody else's role is on the team.
 
pruritis_ani said:
I was waiting for somebody to say it.... 👍


i agree 👍

looking at some of this guys posts on other threads he comes off as a real dickfor.

p.s. love the screen name.
 
Wow. Good for you, kiddo.

My school does not require an EM rotation. We have a critical care month in which we can take MICU/SICU/NICU or EM. I elected to take SICU and MICU. Did I round on up to 5 patients a day by myself? Yes. (cookie!) Did I put in several central lines, A-lines, chest tubes by myself? Yes. (cookie!) Does two months in a critical care situation where I'm actually allowed to take responsibility and care for my patients prepare me to run a code by myself?

No. And allowing a student to "run a code" without ACLS or ATLS certification is irresponsible on the part of the physicians and residents overseeing them. (And if you have it. Cookie!) And even with it, they might let you run it with them, but that is about it.

Unfortunately, based on your comments and attitude, I'm willing to bet that there are not many on here who would willingly work with you. Take a hint and chill out, dude.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
P.S.S. I'm not sure why people complain about "non-acute" patients in the middle of the night. It's not like EM docs are asleep at this time. You're going to be there whether the patient is or not. This is also another reason why EM doctors are the most well rounded of all physicians. They can treat a typical non-urgent family practice case in addition to any life-threatening case.

Whoa, slow down there fella. You might see a different side after your MSIII/MSIV ER rotation.
 
My school also doesn't require any EM. I don't think that's uncommon at all.

Don't worry about your lack of ICU/ER experience going into your intern year. The marino book is really good, but nothing will replace the huge amount of experience that will be rammed down your throat during your intern year.

You won't be the only one without that type of experience. Even those who did do EM or ICU months typically don't get a ton of responsibility and of course you can't sign your own orders etc...

good luck!
 
12R34Y said:
The marino book is really good, but nothing will replace the huge amount of experience that will be rammed down your throat during your intern year.

So true. 👍
 
Are you kidding me? No ER/ICU? I did TWO ICU rotations that were mixed SICU/MICU and TWO ER rotations. And I'm still freaking out about running codes and doing my ICU rotation that I'm reading the Marino book during the break between end of rotations and start of orientation. I watched dozens of codes but was never allowed to run one and I'm still not exactly sure how to run one myself since I was always a little overwhelmed as a student during a code. Oh, well, that's what ACLS during orientation is for, I guess.
 
Go early and get all the pt's labs, imaging reports, carry washington manual with you, get a palm/pocket pc with PDR and MD consult, or whatever you can get-one for meds, one for diagnosis.
Update the labs/meds that you have o your pts as they change. When i did my ICU, i used to make a copy of my progress note. And the progress note each day would have everything!!-Current meds, Vital signs with averages and maximum, vent settings, I/O for 24hrs, etc. Watch for any small changes like pt's course over night.
Order CXR, CBC, BMP for all ICU vent pts. AbG's when necessary and know what it means to have certain tidal volume, PEEP etc.
Also, you should ALWAYS BE THE FIRST PERSON to know the results of any lab/imaging results that was done. If it is a CXR, make sure you see the xray and compare with previous.
Sometimes, if you are not attentive and careful, esp. during rounds, other people-esp. nurses will know something about your pt, like pt. desaturated temporarily overnight and an ABG was ordered-and they will give the info. to the attending and you will look bad. So read everybody's progress notes, including nursing and nutrition.

Now as for codes, intern always has a backup resident. So your job mainly is supportive, and trying to help out-you are not running the code ever. The resident is ultimately responsible, so not to worry. But the difficulty is handling the rounds and other times at night. Now it gets easier after the first couple of wks.

NOW THE INFO ABOVE APPLIES FOR MEDICINE ICU, but surgical intern pretty much is incharge of post-op, re-op etc, so add on to this dressing changes, drainage, trauma cases. Good luck.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
The emergency department is the best place to learn how to manage and stablize acute and urgent patients. Every other department in the hospital sees these patients AFTER stabilization, with a few exceptions (i.e. emergency surgery--although they still go through the ER first.)

This is also another reason why EM doctors are the most well rounded of all physicians. They can treat a typical non-urgent family practice case in addition to any life-threatening case.
Slow down there tiger. My ER month was full of back pain, ran-out-of-meds, vomicking, dumb lacs, and some broken bones. The Muffin's job is to figure out who to consult.

OSUdoc08 said:
or

-cardiac/respiratory arrests
-CVA's
-MI's
-overdoses
-traumatic injuries
-shock
-acute infectious processes

There's a pager number for each of these.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
This is exactly my point.

If you do an ER or ICU rotation as a student, perhaps you can run a code BEFORE internship year.



P.S. I ran my first code when I was 19. Yeah, I guess I was kinda nervous.

P.S.S. Have a beer and chill.
Biggest d!ck on SDN.
 
bigfrank said:
Biggest d!ck on SDN.

I don't know. I think our friend p53 takes the #1 spot.

OSU, bro, you need to take it easy on the comments. If you get on people's nerves during rotations like you do on SDN, you'll be in for a rude awakening come evaluation time.

Study REAL hard for those shelf exams.

Concerned SDNer.
 
eyestar said:
NOW THE INFO ABOVE APPLIES FOR MEDICINE ICU, but surgical intern pretty much is incharge of post-op, re-op etc, so add on to this dressing changes, drainage, trauma cases. Good luck.

Too bad we don't have any surgical interns where I'm going. 🙁
 
No Icu exposure?? Well, you WILL have a rough 1-2 weeks. but thats just the way its gonna be. The nurses are very sharp in SICU, get on their good side fast. They will help you. By the end of the first month, you will probably feel (and know) a lot more. GL
 
I've never seen a room full of such uptight people. Chill out and learn to enjoy sarcasm.

Happy Cinco de Mayo!

RIMG01311.JPG
 
toofache32 said:
Parkland Hospital
Dallas, TX

I've heard from a rising intern about Dallas.

He said that he had done more as a medical student than most of the interns have.

This is due to the excessive conglomeration of interns, residents, and students, as well as the cluttering of people from outside departments due to all of the different residency programs.

He is now attending a residency which has EM as the only residency in the hospital. EM runs everything.

This particular hospital has the most ER visits per year in the state.

I suppose it depends on if you want indepence, where you run the show, or if you want to go to an academic program with masses of people fighting for procedures in each room.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I've heard from a rising intern about Dallas.

He said that he had done more as a medical student than most of the interns have.

This is due to the excessive conglomeration of interns, residents, and students, as well as the cluttering of people from outside departments due to all of the different residency programs.

He is now attending a residency which has EM as the only residency in the hospital. EM runs everything.

This particular hospital has the most ER visits per year in the state.

I suppose it depends on if you want indepence, where you run the show, or if you want to go to an academic program with masses of people fighting for procedures in each room.

EM is probably the only residency which fits that description. Otherwise, there is plenty of work to go around. But a Muffin is still a Muffin.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I've heard from a rising intern about Dallas.

He said that he had done more as a medical student than most of the interns have.

This is due to the excessive conglomeration of interns, residents, and students, as well as the cluttering of people from outside departments due to all of the different residency programs.

He is now attending a residency which has EM as the only residency in the hospital. EM runs everything.

This particular hospital has the most ER visits per year in the state.

I suppose it depends on if you want indepence, where you run the show, or if you want to go to an academic program with masses of people fighting for procedures in each room.
You're an osteopathic student.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get to do (at least some) rotations at private hospitals, thereby circumventing the annoying intern-resident-fellow-attending hierarchy that is in place in allopathic institutions?

Cut the rest of us some slack, you lucky dog!!!!!!!

🙂
 
DOCTORSAIB said:
I don't know. I think our friend p53 takes the #1 spot.

OSU, bro, you need to take it easy on the comments. If you get on people's nerves during rotations like you do on SDN, you'll be in for a rude awakening come evaluation time.

Study REAL hard for those shelf exams.

Concerned SDNer.
I don't know. p53 used to be there, but he's toned down quite a bit as of late, I think.

I think OSUDoc has one of those transparent and annoying inferiority complexes and it comes out in the most ridiculous ways on SDN.

🙂
 
bigfrank said:
Huh? I don't know of any schools where an EM rotation is a core one.


LECOM has 8 weeks of ER required 4th year rotation. No ICU/MICU though. I would not have a clue what to do either. I think you get that a lot and all you can do is your best with what you've been taught and try to learn it as you go. It's scary for most of us.
 
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