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Hello all,

I have been struggling to honor my core rotations in third year. Our rotation grade is 50% eval and 50% shelf. I have gotten all High passes. The rotations I honor the eval in, I only HP the shelf - and vice versa. I've become more disappointed the more I research (aka google) how important honoring third year is. So, for PM&R - how important is it to honor multiple rotations rather than high pass? Will this be a limiting factor in strong programs offering me an interview?
I have a step 1 of 230 and strong PM&R ECs....
 

j4pac

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It matters if it means you may not get a high Step 2. Otherwise, I highly doubt programs care about your honors...but failures and remediations could probably hurt you.
 

TikiTorches

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Hello all,

I have been struggling to honor my core rotations in third year. Our rotation grade is 50% eval and 50% shelf. I have gotten all High passes. The rotations I honor the eval in, I only HP the shelf - and vice versa. I've become more disappointed the more I research (aka google) how important honoring third year is. So, for PM&R - how important is it to honor multiple rotations rather than high pass? Will this be a limiting factor in strong programs offering me an interview?
I have a step 1 of 230 and strong PM&R ECs....
Is pmnr competitive?
 
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JBM16BYU

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Hello all,

I have been struggling to honor my core rotations in third year. Our rotation grade is 50% eval and 50% shelf. I have gotten all High passes. The rotations I honor the eval in, I only HP the shelf - and vice versa. I've become more disappointed the more I research (aka google) how important honoring third year is. So, for PM&R - how important is it to honor multiple rotations rather than high pass? Will this be a limiting factor in strong programs offering me an interview?
I have a step 1 of 230 and strong PM&R ECs....
I agree with j4pac. "Honors" differs from school to school, so it's hard to match up one individual from one school and one from another. My medical school only had "Fail, Pass or Honors" for 3rd-year rotations, and only a few were allowed to honor each course (percentage-wise). Other schools have that "high pass" in there as well, some take a greater percentage for "honors" and some base it 100% on the shelf exam. Use your 3rd-year rotations to help you prepare for Step 2, which will matter more in the long run. Like has already been stated, while programs might not care a whole lot about honors vs. pass, they will care more if there's a fail in there.
 
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Sorry to interrupt in this thread, I am a third year and did struggle academically during my first two years (had to remediate my first and third semester), did okay third year...how much of a ding in my application do you think this could be? Any advice moving forward?
 

Chelsea FC

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Sorry to interrupt in this thread, I am a third year and did struggle academically during my first two years (had to remediate my first and third semester), did okay third year...how much of a ding in my application do you think this could be? Any advice moving forward?
hows your step?
 

PMR2008

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Sorry to interrupt in this thread, I am a third year and did struggle academically during my first two years (had to remediate my first and third semester), did okay third year...how much of a ding in my application do you think this could be? Any advice moving forward?
PM&R is relatively competitive now. The secret is out. The remediation's are significant issues but if you are able to explain them in your PS, do well on your STEPs and have excellent LORs they can be mitigated.
 
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PM&R is relatively competitive now. The secret is out. The remediation's are significant issues but if you are able to explain them in your PS, do well on your STEPs and have excellent LORs they can be mitigated.
thank you so much! I scored a 230 on step 1 and will be taking step 2 in a few weeks. Would you have any advice on how to perform best on PM&R rotations specifically? If there are any books, etc. I would appreciate any advice!
 

Chelsea FC

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PMR2008

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below average. Needs other stuff to improve the application. A few good LORs, stellar PS, research, volunteering etc.
 
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Apr 26, 2019
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below average. Needs other stuff to improve the application. A few good LORs, stellar PS, research, volunteering etc.
Wow really? Like I understand the two preclinical grades are not great but the average step score was around 220, even scoring 10 points above average won’t help?
 

MavFab

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Wow really? Like I understand the two preclinical grades are not great but the average step score was around 220, even scoring 10 points above average won’t help?
Congrats on the 230! That is a strong score, but unfortunately PM&R is getting more competitive. According to 2018 charting outcomes average step 1 for matched applicants was 225. Given the increasing competitiveness of the specialty it is likely even higher now. 2020 charting outcomes should be out in the next month or 2 and it wouldn't surprise me if average has jumped a couple points. Also while failures are not insurmountable they are considered "red flags" and you will need something extra in your application to make up for it.
 
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Congrats on the 230! That is a strong score, but unfortunately PM&R is getting more competitive. According to 2018 charting outcomes average step 1 for matched applicants was 225. Given the increasing competitiveness of the specialty it is likely even higher now. 2020 charting outcomes should be out in the next month or 2 and it wouldn't surprise me if average has jumped a couple points. Also while failures are not insurmountable they are considered "red flags" and you will need something extra in your application to make up for it.
Thank you soo much! And okay yess I completely understand! I’m going to try to find some more ways to get involved and strengthen my app, especially now since applications are not open until October, I have a little more time! Time to get some work done
 

j4pac

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Thank you soo much! And okay yess I completely understand! I’m going to try to find some more ways to get involved and strengthen my app, especially now since applications are not open until October, I have a little more time! Time to get some work done
Id apply a little more broadly in case you are screened out because the remediations...which could happen. But I don’t think it’s as much as a red flag as failing a step (which I’ve still seen applicants overcome).
 
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Chelsea FC

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Sorry to interrupt in this thread, I am a third year and did struggle academically during my first two years (had to remediate my first and third semester), did okay third year...how much of a ding in my application do you think this could be? Any advice moving forward?
when u said u remediate did you just have to retake classes u didnt pass or it means you have to redo an entire year? Because the first is less impactful than the latter.
 
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when u said u remediate did you just have to retake classes u didnt pass or it means you have to redo an entire year? Because the first is less impactful than the latter.
they were both a summer retake! So I was not held behind a year thankfully :)
 
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Id apply a little more broadly in case you are screened out because the remediations...which could happen. But I don’t think it’s as much as a red flag as failing a step (which I’ve still seen applicants overcome).
Yess will do! I was also lucky enough to be able to get three away rotations for programs of interest (this has been very difficult for some students during this cycle I feel like, due to Covid) so I’m going to try my best to prepare for those as well!
 

Chelsea FC

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they were both a summer retake! So I was not held behind a year thankfully :)
Alot of schools dont even list summer retakes if you pass them on the first try so programs wouldn't even have a way of finding out. I would reach out to your school to see if this will be made public to programs I know mine does not.
 
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Chelsea FC

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Yess will do! I was also lucky enough to be able to get three away rotations for programs of interest (this has been very difficult for some students during this cycle I feel like, due to Covid) so I’m going to try my best to prepare for those as well!
Are you a 4th year? Do you have a PM&R home program? Ive beeen hearing because of Covid doing aways when u have a home program would be counted against you instead of bolstering your app. Talk to your PD of your home program to see what they say before making this jump.
 
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PMR2008

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Are you a 4th year? Do you have a PM&R home program? Ive beeen hearing because of Covid doing aways when u have a home program would be counted against you instead of bolstering your app. Talk to your PD of your home program to see what they say before making this jump.
That makes no sense. Why would it be counted against you? If you are lucky enough to get that exposure than go for it. The more experience you have before matching into Physiatry the better. If a PD has an issue with that take it as a sign that you might not be a good fit at the program.
 
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Are you a 4th year? Do you have a PM&R home program? Ive beeen hearing because of Covid doing aways when u have a home program would be counted against you instead of bolstering your app. Talk to your PD of your home program to see what they say before making this jump.
So I believe that my school does not indicate a remediation on transcripts but does state in the MSPE that a remediation was needed to successfully pass the course. And my school does not have its own program unfortunately, but I will try to find out the potential impact of applying to too many programs, I didn’t even think of that! thank you for bringing that into light!
 

Prehealth1011

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That makes no sense. Why would it be counted against you? If you are lucky enough to get that exposure than go for it. The more experience you have before matching into Physiatry the better. If a PD has an issue with that take it as a sign that you might not be a good fit at the program.
This is a thing this year. Some specialities will penalize you for having more than one away rotation (EM for example). I'm not sure if AAPMR has released a statement about away rotations yet but i would definitely be careful and play by the rules.
 
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Chelsea FC

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That makes no sense. Why would it be counted against you? If you are lucky enough to get that exposure than go for it. The more experience you have before matching into Physiatry the better. If a PD has an issue with that take it as a sign that you might not be a good fit at the program.
Not sure if you are in touch with the residency application, if you are I will defer to your knowledge. Because of covid there have been recommendations from other specialties(not PM&R as yet) that encouraging students not to do aways especially if they have a home program. AAPMR has not made any recommendations as yet but ive been hearing friends telling me their PD said it might actually hurt.
 

PMR2008

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Okay I would make an exception for students who do not have a home program.
There are 91 PM&R residency programs. From the last time I checked there are 154 M.D. programs and 38 D.O. programs. Also the vast majority of DO schools do not have a home program. Puts DO students at a significant disadvantage if they are not able to do away rotations.
 

Chelsea FC

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Okay I would make an exception for students who do not have a home program.
There are 91 PM&R residency programs. From the last time I checked there are 154 M.D. programs and 38 D.O. programs. Also the vast majority of DO schools do not have a home program. Puts DO students at a significant disadvantage if they are not able to do away rotations.
Hence why we asked if he/she have a home program. People like that will get a pass. But OP might wanna rethink doing 3 aways in this climate
 
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She told me via PM that they are actually all home rotations.
Yess sorry for the confusion everyone! They are through hospitals that my school is affiliated with. While my school itself does not have a program, we are affiliated with some hospitals that do
 
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