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BTW
Does anyone have info on locums in UAE or Saudi? I hear they pay very well...
Does anyone have info on locums in UAE or Saudi? I hear they pay very well...
No Jobs!
- Thread starter Patholo-gyst
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Ive done extensive research into this (was over 5 years ago, but post 9-11). Honestly, not a great opportunity for someone able to get partnership in a real solid group. The tax free status isnt bad tho.
To truly take advantage of this, you would essentially need to renounce your US citizenship, buy a Venezuelan passport(or similar, the Venz. one is usually the top choice because it can be had for a mere 20K) and work for at least 8ish years, bank the $, return to the US on a visa, marry a US citizen and then do something else with your life. But if you really had your stuff together you could potentially bank 2-3 million in that time.
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Why does it have to be so complicated? Doesn't Saudi recognize US board cert? I'm sure you could go on some type of temporary work visa if you found the right sponsor...
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Its not complicated by WHY would you go to Saudi Arabia if it isnt tax free. See although your first 80K is tax free abroad, the rest is not. So if you pull down 300K lets say, you are still in the higher brackets with a final net of 220 for tax purposes. If the IRS also taxes money used to provide housing/food, you could end up paying a ton, pretty much eliminating any reason to be there.
AND, they may eliminate the 80K amount completely, meaning basically you would avoid no federal taxes at all as a US citizen.
Most foreign countries do not have the same resources as the US IRS and therefore tax NO money made outside the home country hence Venezuelan, Costa Rican, Belize etc citizenship.
Plus have you even been to SA or UAE? Do more research on it. You cant really make a career out of it as a non-national.
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I didn't realize that money made overseas was taxed at a significant rate. Again, my naivete. They take the fun out of everything, you know?
What if you do a locum in a country that also taxes your income (like New Zealand, for instance)? Do you take a double hit? Do you only report your after tax income to the IRS?
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Yes, you get a double hit. Hence why no one in US really makes a habit out of it.
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The job market will have truly hit bottom when rural employers no longer have to feign honesty with fake partnership offers. I sense that moment is almost upon us. Its just too easy to get people to come work - no matter where or for what salary.
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already here Im afraid. Im starting to see more and more ads as simple "employee with full benefits only" positions.
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But isn't Obama going to fix everything? Heck, he promised to fix everything and more while campaigning and since politicians are always honest and realistic, I'm feeling pretty good about life.
Quote I personally heard at supermarket by man paying with food stamps pretty much sums it up:
"now that Obama's been elected all my problems are solved. I won't never have to pay for nothing again!"
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Lets keep the random Obama posts out of this thread... this isn't Sociopolitical Issues section... (that's down the street)...
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For real, you should stick with the point of the thread - the crappy job market.
Today I got a call, someone wants me to read slides for, oh I dunno $20-30 each. Let me think about it...NO!
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Per case or per slide?
Welcome to pathology here on planet Earth. You may discover things are a bit different out here than what you were told during training on the academic mother ship.
Maybe if you rounded with the clinicians performing the biopsies, they'd pay you more?
CAP is sure that would help.
Bring doughnuts!
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Actually, thats not bad money. If you read 100 slides a day (Im assuming its $20-30 per specimen, not per case), working just 200 days in a year, thats $400-600K a year.
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I recognize that the money doesn't look bad, but that's assuming the kind specimen volume that would probably not be there. 10-20 cases per day at best.
Furthermore, the salesperson who pitched this to me is, um, shady, and the proposed work would certainly be violating a non-compete clause. It would jeopardize the job I have now. Potentially losing my job & getting my butt sued off didn't sound like a good idea to me.
Hope this clarifies for Pathwrath, and anyone else who's wondering if I need to get my head examined.
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MD/DO schools are increasing their class size. Are these new students going to saturate the market even further?
Also are US citizens trained in US schools having trouble finding jobs, or the IMGs and FMGs that make up a good chunk of path?
Also are US citizens trained in US schools having trouble finding jobs, or the IMGs and FMGs that make up a good chunk of path?
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Increased medical school class size doesn't mean an increase in pathology residency spots. It is two entirely separate agencies which determine the number of spots in med school and residency.
The reason for the increase in MD/DO spots is to get people to go into primary care specialties, where there is a need for doctors. Unfortunately, no one really wants to go into primary care due to low reimbursement and high workload. Until they fix that, its like throwing ants at a waxed log. Even if you drastically increase the number of ants you throw, only a few are going to stick. The rest are going to fall off and head for more accommodating logs.
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Lets hope they don't superglue the logs and make the ants stick
Quoted from New York Times 1993:
In an effort to create more family doctors, President Clinton's health plan would empower the Federal Government to decide how many doctors should be trained each year as family practitioners, radiologists, surgeons, neurologists and other specialists....It would establish Federal regulation in a field now governed by the choices of medical students and teaching hospitals....
President Clinton will also propose vastly expanding the roles of nurses, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, midwives, social workers and other health-care professionals who do not have M.D. degrees.
In the final draft of his health plan, Mr. Clinton says Congress should override many state laws that limit the scope of practice of such nonphysicians. Nurses support this proposal, but doctors vehemently oppose it. ...
Under Mr. Clinton's plan, the Government would enforce its decisions on the allocation of doctors by withholding money from any teaching hospital or training program that trains more than its quota of specialists.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1
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By Thor's hammer, the Armaggedon is nigh...
The thread has already been hijacked, so I'll expand the topic. What did Obama and Reid say about this proposal?
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Another sidetrack:
Anyone hear that Peter Schiff broadcast about that female Obama supporter who was elated Obama was elected and all her poverty problems were about to be finally (and magically) solved? LMAO.
so many people in this country and the world are idiots, it amazes me we've actually been as successful as a species as it appears.
Anyone hear that Peter Schiff broadcast about that female Obama supporter who was elated Obama was elected and all her poverty problems were about to be finally (and magically) solved? LMAO.
so many people in this country and the world are idiots, it amazes me we've actually been as successful as a species as it appears.
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It should be duly noted that Clinton's mother is a CRNA. While he didn't get everything he wanted, he did enough damage to medicine and allowed the nurses even more power. We have to work to undo the damage as much as possible.
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Hey, guys, im a pre-med and i am carefully considering pathology. I am really interested in slides and the work and learning that goes with it. I was hoping if any experienced members can help answer some questions.
Has anyone applied to positions in the ne, specifically nyc? How does it look like so far? How often do Paths move in a single lifetime? How often do groups get dissolved? Are Paths more vulnerable to fluxes in the job market than other specialities?
Has anyone applied to positions in the ne, specifically nyc? How does it look like so far? How often do Paths move in a single lifetime? How often do groups get dissolved? Are Paths more vulnerable to fluxes in the job market than other specialities?
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hey mate, all good questions to consider, and its good that you are thinking ahead (despite the fact that you have a long way to go before you really need to concern yourself with such things). but at the expense of frustrating you, i'll have to refer you to the search function of this forum. there are many, many discussions from the past that could help answer all your questions. you'll just have to scroll through the search results on your own, as most people on here are probably not inclined to revisit those topics. best of luck!
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"The ABP offers a process for recertification that enables its diplomates to demonstrate continued competency in the practice of pathology. Based on the tenet that practicing pathologists maintain high educational, professional, ethical, and moral standards in their practices, the recertification process serves as an assessment of individual credentials and a measure of quality of professional practice for pathologists who have been certified by the ABP. This voluntary recertification process is designed to evaluate the basic parameters of a pathologists practice and assure a current review of credentials, leading to a certificate of recertification."
Maybe making things like this involuntary would push some geezers to retire.
Thoughts?
Maybe making things like this involuntary would push some geezers to retire.
Thoughts?
One superannuated pathologist I worked with took the test and passed without a problem. I wouldn't let her diagnose a biopsy from my dog.
Old pathologists aren't going to retire unless it is in their interest financially to do so. I imagine with the stock market imploding, the old guys at the scopes aren't going anywhere.
Old pathologists aren't going to retire unless it is in their interest financially to do so. I imagine with the stock market imploding, the old guys at the scopes aren't going anywhere.
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Jpanda asked above how often pathologists move in their lifetime. I presume you mean after residency and starting first job. Not an easy thing to answer. I would say that very few pathologists take their first job and then stay in that job until they retire (maybe 10-20%? less?) - this is true for both academics and private. I don't know what the average is - I know where I am going the average is that they are all on their 2nd or 3rd job - sometimes (usually?) you have to keep looking until you find the one that is right for you and in the right location.
I do not know how that compares to other fields - it is probably similar if you are in academics though. Academic people are always changing locations.
By the way, pathwrath you need an avatar.
I do not know how that compares to other fields - it is probably similar if you are in academics though. Academic people are always changing locations.
By the way, pathwrath you need an avatar.
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and why should they? When you are 65 and trying to put two kids through college and buying a second home in FL or AZ, will you quit just so some jerk-off resident can have a job? Of course not, and pathology is a game of experience, a guy with 40 years experience is far less likely to majorly F up than some guy right out of fellowship. Old timers may not be up on the latest diagnostic terminology, but they know the pitfalls to avoid.
There's a point where experienced degenerates into past one's prime. It doesn't happen to everyone, but it does happen, and it takes grace to recognize it and act accordingly.
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Yeah, that's an interesting problem. What if the person simply doesn't recognize it? At what point does it become the colleagues' responsibility to say something - and then, who do you say something to? It's unfortunate that people can't realize to recognize their OWN limitations and need to be basically forced into retirement.
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I think the job market is ok for forensics - bear in mind it is something of a niche job so you can't name your salary and location, but there are probably more openings. It doesn't pay as well, that's part of the reason.
a lot of times you're working for the local government, so the pay isn't great. and it can be very political because even though you are working for (usually) the health department, the DA's office tends to think you work for them. and if they don't like what you have to say, guess who the next person they turn their investigative interest on? hmmmm.....
but in the end, if you are going into forensics, you should LOVE the work. or else you won't make it very long in the profession.
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i found this conference thing coming up on the dark report website
http://www.darkreport.com/Audio/2.18.09/Improve-Pathologist-Compensation.htm
anyone planning on checking it out?
http://www.darkreport.com/Audio/2.18.09/Improve-Pathologist-Compensation.htm
anyone planning on checking it out?
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Aww man, Peter Schiff is my hero. I love watching kick everyone's ass on CNN or CNBC. I just wish I had $50K to open up my own Euro-Pac account. Love to get in on them 20% dividends abroad.
Not true. Try applying for one of those jobs. I did and was told that although i have many pulbications, they were not in high impact pathology journals! If you can get a grant, MD Anderson is a great place to go; but if you can get a grant, do you really need to apply anywhere? What you would likely do in that case is to work in a more stable academic department, such as internal medicine. Pathology is scary in academics. You just never know when the ax will fall. Every day, I look for a pink slip, as does every one else in the department.
All you need to do is try to look for a job. It's really frightening out there. There simply are hardly any available positions. If you apply to 100, you will likely get 7 interviews. In those interviews, you will be competing with about ten other candidates. Where are all the jobs?
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I agree. MD Anderson was the first place I applied to actually because I know a colleague who took a job there and he loved it there and encouraged me to apply.
Result = FAIL.
Anyways, after not hearing from them for months, I talked to a faculty member who did his fellowship there and he confirmed that they want people who intend to get grants. Although they don't expect you to come with grant funding, if you fit their profile, they give you a very generous startup package.
Read that presentation. There are no jobs in academia, no matter what is said. The places that offer many jobs in academics tend to fire many persons after they arrive for lack of grants.
I am so grateful to have a job. The pay, at least from the salary, is less than the listed average salary $175,000, for doctors in general; the location is certainly remote and unpalatable. But at least I am working. Hopefully, I will be able to simply retire in a few years before they cut me out of my position.
By that time, I should have had 100 articles out. Not a bad number.
You can bet your sweet behind that that is true of every academic department that has lots of openings all the time. At least MD Anderson is being up front these days about the grant pressure. Remember, if you are good enough to get a grant in pathology, you are even better suited to get one in a department of surgery, where they have much more money and far more doctors who have no time to get grants but need to get on one.
At least that's being honest. They used to simply lie to your face.
One item. When the notice comes of a layoff, you usually get at least six weeks before the paycheck ends. The key is to immediately contact every locums firm and then begin to work the weeks. The pay is not bad, and you sometimes even get a job doing this.
