No longer competitive for ortho - suggestions on next steps?

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

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. In this case, the OP said the last time someone matched from the bottom 50% was 2011, so it seems like it is very difficult to overcome from his institution.

It could just be a case that most of the sub-50% people are significantly overlapped with the students that also didn't get a competitive Step 1 score for Ortho in the past. I don't think that's too far stretched.

Also, @everyone , couldn't this debate just be solved by looking at the Charting Outcomes PD survey and check how many programs care about AOA/class rank?

 

[GoSpursGo]

It could just be a case that most of the sub-50% people are significantly overlapped with the students that also didn't get a competitive Step 1 score for Ortho in the past. I don't think that's too far stretched.

Also, @everyone , couldn't this debate just be solved by looking at the Charting Outcomes PD survey and check how many programs care about AOA/class rank?

Could be overlap. Regardless, again the OP won’t be successful without support from his school

I am confident that those factors will be rated as important by ortho PDs.

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

2021 PD Survey - 36 Programs Surveyed

 

[biostats1092]

I'd say apply to the OP as long as your recommendation letters are solid and supportive of you. You have orthopedic surgeons supportive of you, who cares if a PhD Dean at your med school is supportive.

 

[brokenbonebro]

0 people matched DR (or general surgery) from the bottom quartile of my school. #feelsbadman There go DR/ESIR plans. Maybe IM => cards => IC is an option to weasel my way back to the operating room?

 

[GoSpursGo]

0 people matched DR (or general surgery) from the bottom quartile of my school. #feelsbadman There go DR/ESIR plans. Maybe IM => cards => IC is an option to weasel my way back to the operating room?

Question—how many people tried, and what were their step 2 scores? Speaks to how strong those data are and whether you could conceivably overcome with good step 2. I ask since there is that recent AMA thread of someone matching ortho from 3rd quartile at a DO school

Ortho is so hyper competitive that I am inclined to buy that any red flag is probably disqualifying. DR is close, but lumping gen surg into the “impossible” category seems aggressive.

 

[wholeheartedly]

n=1

The hospital i used to work at managed to recruit an orthopedic surgeon (small town), The practice grew enough that they wanted to hire another doc (non surgical) to support the ortho clinic. That job was filled by an FM doc with sports med training. She did 100% sports med there, seemed really happy.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

n=1

The hospital i used to work at managed to recruit an orthopedic surgeon (small town), The practice grew enough that they wanted to hire another doc (non surgical) to support the ortho clinic. That job was filled by an FM doc with sports med training. She did 100% sports med there, seemed really happy.

Met a doc that did this near where I went to med school. They absolutely loved their practice and would manage all the clinic injections and non-operative cases for the ortho group.

 

[CJhooper123]

Question—how many people tried, and what were their step 2 scores? Speaks to how strong those data are and whether you could conceivably overcome with good step 2. I ask since there is that recent AMA thread of someone matching ortho from 3rd quartile at a DO school

Ortho is so hyper competitive that I am inclined to buy that any red flag is probably disqualifying. DR is close, but lumping gen surg into the “impossible” category seems aggressive.

Ortho is hypercompetitive but also requires tons of luck. The past 2 years have truly been insane. I know plenty of people who were AOA, 260's+, and 10+ pubs who didn't match. I also know people who weren't AOA, were sub-240, had virtually no research, and had red flags who matched. There are elements that you can/can't control in the ortho game.

IMO, the most important thing in the ortho game is who you know. Research years can help this.. usually recommended between M3 and M4 year. If you have any red flag, you should do this. Getting pubs isn't the most important element of RY's, it's making connections to make phone calls for you. Scoring 270+, having 10+ pubs, and being AOA doesn't carry weight like it used to. If you failed a block exam, a single phone call from a big name will make that disappear. Ortho is a dirty game, and it isn't getting better anytime soon with P/F step 1. Promises are made and broken from PD's/Chairs.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I went unmatched, then reapplied and matched after doing a prelim year. Many times I was on the verge of giving up but didn’t. So I’m always inclined in these situations to say go for it regardless because going unmatched isn’t the end of the world and you don’t want to spend the rest of your life wondering what would happen if you didn’t give it a shot.

That said…the competition has really gotten crazy over the last few years. Plus the changes to USMLE I’m sure is going to shift the emphasis even more to always, letters or rec, and who will be willing to make a phone call on your behalf. It seemed so gross when I was applying, only more so now.

Still I would say apply but know your limitations and strongly consider a backup. Not matching sucks, but the lingering questions and the unknowing would suck more imo.