no longer open for discussion

[throwayaccount1375]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[TexasPhysician]

So confused as to how you had good comments and A-B on shelf and still failed 3 rotations. If I’m the PD, I might start thinking this is a personality problem. That’s a huge issue for you. A lack of disclosure by the school on reaching a F is very poor form. How do you learn/improve upon something that is a mystery? I strongly suggest working with your school upon developing a good plan on how to address this. I certainly wouldn’t explain it like it reads above.

 

[throwayaccount1375]

,

 

[nexus73]

Was there anyone to talk to at the school to explain this grading system? Can you talk to the preceptors to see if they could weigh in on your grade? A preceptor not knowing they’ve given you a failing grade by their evaluation choices seems very strange. It sounds very stressful.

 

[Alexandra22]

I think a chair letter is the way to go. I’m just a student however. If a faculty member at your school can vouch for you and explain your situation. I think it would go a LONG way in alleviating concerns. A PD or someone familiar with the application process would give you the best advice. I’m not sure about your chances of matching psych but I think FM would be doable if you get that letter and apply very broadly.

 

[Mass Effect]

I'm going to tell you what I told you in the old thread where you went into more detail. This doesn't pass the logic test. I would strongly encourage you to think of a way to present this that doesn't involve the words "I didn't know", "my preceptors didn't know", "no one knows how grades are calculated".

Even if you believe all those things to be true, it still sounds like BS and like a student not taking ownership. You should sit down with someone you trust and figure out how to present this better if you want to make a good impression at interviews.

It's going to be an uphill battle matching psych because what those grades tell me is that you can do well on tests so no knowledge deficits, but your clinical skills need work. Clinical skills in psych are very important. How did you do in the rest of your rotations? If you can get past that giant red flag of the start of 3rd yr and finished out the year strong, you have a shot but only if you can explain what happened by taking ownership and not going down the rabbit hole of not knowing this or that about grading. A Chair letter will do squat unless you do this. This is more important.

 

[docksan]

Great academic and not so great clinical is not a good look when it comes to psychiatry residency.

 

[Celexa]

I'm going to tell you what I told you in the old thread where you went into more detail. This doesn't pass the logic test. I would strongly encourage you to think of a way to present this that doesn't involve the words "I didn't know", "my preceptors didn't know", "no one knows how grades are calculated".

Even if you believe all those things to be true, it still sounds like BS and like a student not taking ownership. You should sit down with someone you trust and figure out how to present this better if you want to make a good impression at interviews.

It's going to be an uphill battle matching psych because what those grades tell me is that you can do well on tests so no knowledge deficits, but your clinical skills need work. Clinical skills in psych are very important. How did you do in the rest of your rotations? If you can get past that giant red flag of the start of 3rd yr and finished out the year strong, you have a shot but only if you can explain what happened by taking ownership and not going down the rabbit hole of not knowing this or that about grading. A Chair letter will do squat unless you do this. This is more important.

I agree. I find it concievable that evaluators might not know are giving a BAD grade--I have seen that multiple times for varying reasons--but a failing one? Multiple times? Unless your school fails some insane proportion of their students (>20%? More?) you at least had multiple graders giving you abnormally low grades multiple times. Something needs to be identified and fixed.

It doesn't sound like your school handled it well--but that's a contributing factor, not the main one.

 

[Merovinge]

I agree. I find it concievable that evaluators might not know are giving a BAD grade--I have seen that multiple times for varying reasons--but a failing one? Multiple times? Unless your school fails some insane proportion of their students (>20%? More?) you at least had multiple graders giving you abnormally low grades multiple times. Something needs to be identified and fixed.

It doesn't sound like your school handled it well--but that's a contributing factor, not the main one.

There's been so much grade inflation that my school did have a pretty rigorous requirement on the attending filled out forms (a bit like you want any restaurant on google to be 4.5 or above and less then 4/5 is basically assured to be bad).

Having said that, 3 separate rotations and attendings from different specialties all marking into the failing category is a huge red flag. Definitely more to this story. I would advise OP to apply FM broadly unless there is a compelling way (like a chair letter) to explain what happened.

 

[Bartelby]

Not to pile on but I agree with what others are saying here. The story (good comments and good shelf exam scores but three consecutive failures) does not make sense. You need to get to the bottom of exactly what happened and own it. Be ready to explain how you have fully addressed the deficiency, and excel on any remaining rotations.

As mentioned, a match in psych is an uphill battle. In your case if you have identified and corrected any problems that were coming up early in your clinical rotations you might want to consider away rotations at programs of highest interest (where you feel you would have a relatively strong chance of matching but for the rotation failure issue issue). If you work with them and they really like you, that might help a program overcome misgivings about the early clinical failures.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Clinical knowledge is easy to remediate. If an applicant hints at a weakness in professionalism, empathy, or an ability to communicate; run. Poor grades based on scores and tests can be overlooked. Multiple clinical rotations that are pulling grades below the shelf test scores is both unusual and alarming. The best that can be done is own it, ask what the exact consistent deficiency is and how you are making progress in addressing it.

 

[Celexa]

There's been so much grade inflation that my school did have a pretty rigorous requirement on the attending filled out forms (a bit like you want any restaurant on google to be 4.5 or above and less then 4/5 is basically assured to be bad).

Having said that, 3 separate rotations and attendings from different specialties all marking into the failing category is a huge red flag. Definitely more to this story. I would advise OP to apply FM broadly unless there is a compelling way (like a chair letter) to explain what happened.

Yeah the 'evaluator unknowing giving bad grades' thing most often happens when a new attending or resident from another system applies their own memory of what is average to a system with inflation. Student ends up with terrible ratings due to essentially bad luck. I TRY and communicate the relative standards to our raters but it's a never ending battle. Often the other raters are in line with instituonal culture and comments are good.

But this would never cause a student to fail in our grading system. That would require both low ratings, comments that are concerning, and usually, the attending would have reached out to the clerkship director before even sending in their eval.

 

[DOBound2019]

I'll be honest most psych programs even with a low threshold still screen out based on board failure or clinical failure is what I've heard. I would think your best chance is to do an away and really impress in person otherwise as mentioned by many others above it'll hard for any PD to ignore three rotations with failing grades.

 

[docksan]

It's not impossible with good insight and ownership of mistakes.