BIDMC PGY4 open positions for 2024-25

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macchamaccha

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The BIDMC/Harvard psychiatry program is recruiting for PGY4 position(s) to start in Jul 2024. Please pass on the information to any current PGY3 residents looking to transfer!

Prerequisites: Program director letter including verification of good standing and completed rotations, CV, USMLE Step 1-3, MSPE, 3 letters of recommendation. Residents who are expected to complete their third year of residency training in good standing at an ACGME-accredited program by the end of June 2024 will be considered.

Application Deadline: September 1, 2023

Contact information: Colleen Cusick, program coordinator, [email protected]

For information about the program: BIDMC Psychiatry Residency Training Program

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This is pretty darn unusual, right?
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
There are several people fast tracking this year due to their interest in child.
All over the country programs have people fast tracking into child.

What is unusual is a program actually trying to fill a PGY4 position. It raises suspicion that there are undesirable 4th year services that need filling by a department such as call, or overnights... *blech*.
 
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All over the country programs have people fast tracking into child.

What is unusual is a program actually trying to fill a PGY4 position. It raises suspicion that there are undesirable 4th year services that need filling by a department such as call, or overnights... *blech*.
I didn't want to be the first to say it, but it's probably call coverage of some sort.

The least-bad scenario is that they don't want the PGY-4 home call pool to be so small that people are doing home call more than once a week. Because the BI ED is very very busy for psychiatry (and you're also covering CL for the whole hospital if some urgent psych need comes up), it was historically not uncommon for the PGY-4 to be called in from home to help although that might have been tempered some by having the PGY-3's take short evening shifts in the ED.

It could potentially be worse than that and involve also covering other NF/overnight/24-hour shift duties.

Of course any current residents should correct my speculation.
 
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This is correct. 6/10 are fast tracking this year. They are quite happy with the program and just happens their class has a high interest in child. The PGY4s are only on home backup call and very rarely called in (maybe 5x a year in total for the whole class) but the program is trying to alleviate the frequency.
 
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Omph. It might be more expensive, but this sounds like a situation where they should be using a locums and not trying to drag a resident into a short staffed situation during what should be the most relaxing year of residency.
 
This is correct. 6/10 are fast tracking this year. They are quite happy with the program and just happens their class has a high interest in child. The PGY4s are only on home backup call and very rarely called in (maybe 5x a year in total for the whole class) but the program is trying to alleviate the frequency.
Ouch, q4 home call is rough, even if not called in.

You'd think they could give some incentive pay to attendings who take call on nights a PGY-4 isn't available, since they're always on call anyway.
 
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I think they're hoping to recruit multiple pgy4's so that the home call will be reasonable, as well as fill out their chief resident positions (there are more than 4), to help support the junior residents. The program leadership is pretty supportive so I'm pretty sure it'll end up being a good experience and reasonable workload.
 
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I think they're hoping to recruit multiple pgy4's so that the home call will be reasonable, as well as fill out their chief resident positions (there are more than 4), to help support the junior residents. The program leadership is pretty supportive so I'm pretty sure it'll end up being a good experience and reasonable workload.
It is utterly exhausting to enter a new medical system and get up to speed--we literally were just talking about this in one of the new attending threads. And chiefing relies on having come up through a program and having knowledge of the system and the players involved. I literally cannot imagine a transferred pgy4 successfully chiefing in any of the programs I'm familiar with where chief roles are substantial, and by definition, if the roles *aren't* substantial you can do without it.

Additionally, psychiatry is essentially the only specialty (barring maybe peds?) where there is MAJOR local legal variation. And those variations matter the most on call. Coming in cold, with no in-state or local experience, and questions that take 15 seconds for someone who knows the system can turn into high liability confusing nightmares.

I did CL fellowship in a new state and even though I do commitment paperwork in that context, I decided moonlighting ED coverage wasn't worth it because of the amount of time it would take to get up to speed. I still lean heavily on my colleagues who have been here for a long time to help me on these local questions, and it will be a long time before I get familiar enough to be the person who is asked instead of the one doing the asking.

No judgment on anyone who has reasons to consider this but as someone just finally out of training it's very hard to see any good reason for doing this unless you desperately need to move to Boston for personal reasons.
 
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im interested but scared to bring this up to my PD
 
Omph. It might be more expensive, but this sounds like a situation where they should be using a locums and not trying to drag a resident into a short staffed situation during what should be the most relaxing year of residency.

Really?
Plenty of residents would kill to get a degree from a renowned program.

The responses in this thread are bizarre. There are quite a few top programs which routinely have PGY-4 positions and can be very flexible in what they offer. Some actually will offer chief positions as well. It's a great opportunity and things like this should actually be encouraged.
 
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Really?
Plenty of residents would kill to get a degree from a renowned program.

The responses in this thread are bizarre. There are quite a few top programs which routinely have PGY-4 positions and can be very flexible in what they offer. Some actually will offer chief positions as well. It's a great opportunity and things like this should actually be encouraged.

Psychiatry for better and for worse tends to attract people that want a good lifestyle and a work/life balance. It should not surprise you that this criteria is in the back of a significant number’s mind when considering prospective programs especially when this is an important criteria for so many others in more physically demanding specialties!

It’s also a good reminder to me why the disparities in pay is so high in psychiatry. Large numbers are very content with very little income for very little productivity whole a sizable number are on the FIRE bandwagon and doing multiples of income compared to their own colleagues in some places.

Psych is a wonderful and strange place all at once.
 
Really?
Plenty of residents would kill to get a degree from a renowned program.

The responses in this thread are bizarre. There are quite a few top programs which routinely have PGY-4 positions and can be very flexible in what they offer. Some actually will offer chief positions as well. It's a great opportunity and things like this should actually be encouraged.
Residency programs don't grant "degrees"...

Anyway, I agree in the sense that it is a great opportunity for someone who knows they want to live in Boston long term (or thinks they want to live in Boston) and also knows they want to open a therapy-focused (especially psychodynamic) private practice after residency. Lots of great connections in that realm through this program.
 
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No one is going to be impressed that someone did a PGY-4 year at a Harvard affiliated program. More importantly, most people aren't going to care in the least where anyone did their psych residency. They are only going to care that you did a residency. Even the large majority of academic employers really just care about board certification and a pulse. The POSSIBLE exception would be some sort of research heavy residency you completed and you're most certainly not going to be doing research while hopping into a clinically understaffed program for one year. Definitely second the above comment that trying to have someone transfer into a CHIEF role is a particularly nasty recipe for disaster. The entire point of the chief resident is that you know the whole system backwards and forwards so that you can help the other residents with their particular weird issue specific to the institution.
 
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No one is going to be impressed that someone did a PGY-4 year at a Harvard affiliated program. More importantly, most people aren't going to care in the least where anyone did their psych residency. They are only going to care that you did a residency. Even the large majority of academic employers really just care about board certification and a pulse. The POSSIBLE exception would be some sort of research heavy residency you completed and you're most certainly not going to be doing research while hopping into a clinically understaffed program for one year. Definitely second the above comment that trying to have someone transfer into a CHIEF role is a particularly nasty recipe for disaster. The entire point of the chief resident is that you know the whole system backwards and forwards so that you can help the other residents with their particular weird issue specific to the institution.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

I suggest people ignore this advice. Judge the merit of the position by what is being offered and how it could play into your future goals.
 
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No one is going to be impressed that someone did a PGY-4 year at a Harvard affiliated program. More importantly, most people aren't going to care in the least where anyone did their psych residency. They are only going to care that you did a residency. Even the large majority of academic employers really just care about board certification and a pulse.
This is simply not true. While it is obviously not a deal breaker, people DO care about where you trained and went to school etc. When I worked in academics, we would allow faculty positions to go unfilled rather than interview applicants from lower tier (i.e. below top 20) programs. In private practice, people DO care about where you trained and there is a certain type of cash paying pt who obsesses about this kind of thing. If you do forensic/expert witness work, lawyers absolutely care about this. Many employers do in fact also select from a narrower pool. In the non-clinical sphere (e.g. if you want to do consulting, work in pharma, insurance, management consulting etc.) it matters even more. So while, I would agree, it is not impressive to do a PGY-4 yr at a Harvard affiliated program, graduating from such a program likely confers certain benefits. If it didn't matter, then these forums wouldn't exist and people wouldn't be trying so hard to get into so-called "elite" residencies etc. The further you get out from your training, the less that matters and the more you rest on your reputation. But let's not pretend that training at a top program such as a Harvard affiliated program does not provide access to advantages that would not otherwise be so easily obtainable.
 
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This is simply not true. While it is obviously not a deal breaker, people DO care about where you trained and went to school etc. When I worked in academics, we would allow faculty positions to go unfilled rather than interview applicants from lower tier (i.e. below top 20) programs. In private practice, people DO care about where you trained and there is a certain type of cash paying pt who obsesses about this kind of thing. If you do forensic/expert witness work, lawyers absolutely care about this. Many employers do in fact also select from a narrower pool. In the non-clinical sphere (e.g. if you want to do consulting, work in pharma, insurance, management consulting etc.) it matters even more. So while, I would agree, it is not impressive to do a PGY-4 yr at a Harvard affiliated program, graduating from such a program likely confers certain benefits. If it didn't matter, then these forums wouldn't exist and people wouldn't be trying so hard to get into so-called "elite" residencies etc. The further you get out from your training, the less that matters and the more you rest on your reputation. But let's not pretend that training at a top program such as a Harvard affiliated program does not provide access to advantages that would not otherwise be so easily obtainable.
Yeah but if you want to stay in academic that bad or absolutely need a posh name on your CV you can finish you fourth year chilling in terms of official duties and probably moonlighting a decent amount, then net any of the many easy to get fellowships at a fancy place that also has a chill schedule and lets you moonlight. That path seems VASTLY more appealing to me than trying to be a pgy4 in a new program when that includes call .
 
Yeah but if you want to stay in academic that bad or absolutely need a posh name on your CV you can finish you fourth year chilling in terms of official duties and probably moonlighting a decent amount, then net any of the many easy to get fellowships at a fancy place that also has a chill schedule and lets you moonlight. That path seems VASTLY more appealing to me than trying to be a pgy4 in a new program when that includes call .

Is doing a fellowship (an additional year of servitude with crap salary) and foregoing one year of attending salary really "vastly more appealing" than doing light call like the rest of your peers in PGY4?

Being a graduate of a top residency by itself can open doors. If you're in PP, patients for better or worse care about this.
The connections alone can transform your options, especially if you're actually good - whether your goals are in private practice, academia and yes, even research. It might be possible to negotiate one or two days a week of research if you're hell bent on becoming a researcher and you have some background, and I actually know now renowned professors who transitioned in their 4th years and built a career in research at top academic places.

While I agree there are challenges when you're transferring to a different system, getting out of your comfort zone, seeing how psychiatry is practiced in top places can be hugely educational.
In general, I highly doubt top residencies want to bring in new PGY-4 residents to treat them like crap. Some residencies like Yale routinely bring in 1 or 2 PGY-4 residents who function like the rest of their peers. What this positions entails really depends on what is being offered.
I have to say the cynicism being shown here is downright amusing.
 
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I'm guess there are some academic places that care (inappropriately in my opinion) and I guess there are probably some easily duped cash pay clients who care. But seriously...the VAST majority of places, academic included, are HARD UP. I certainly wouldn't want to work anywhere that declined to fill positions, letting patients and other staff suffer, while awaiting some golden applicant who happened to complete their 4th year of residency at an Ivy League program.
 
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Meh, there's caveats in this discussion that aren't totally transparent.

Where I did residency, there was no mandatory call after second year. Transferring to a program with call would have been extremely unappealing to me especially because who knows what that "easy" call schedule would actually be like. Otoh, if my residency had a bad PGY-4 call schedule, this could have been nice. Ymmv.

Transferring and being a chief could be a great opportunity if it's a "chief in name only" type of position. Ie, chief has very basic duties like making the call schedule. If it's a more in depth position requiring knowledge of the system, it could be terrible for the time they're a chief which might not be worth the prestige.

While being at an "affiliated" hospital can give name recognition in some situations, especially if the name of the home institution is in big letters on the diploma/certificate, the uninformed elites that prestige caters to often won't care. I actually had a conversation about this over the weekend with at a party who asked why they should pay more to see someone from a "second-rate affiliated hospital" instead of someone from the "real" institution. Didn't matter that the affiliated hospital was probably better for the area of care we were talking about, logic often disappears when prestige and narcissistic traits get involved and fallacies in thought are abound.

Geography also matters. I'm sure the name recognition for Beth Israel carries a lot of weight in the NE area, but in other areas of the country it won't. No one in the midwest outside of medicine knows anything about hospitals "affiliated" with Harvard. The names Beth Israel, or McLean, or Spaulding don't mean anything. Brigham and Women's Hospital or Boston's Children's Hospital will ring bells, but anything short of Man's Greatest Hospital won't mean much. Only the real giants like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. will carry that kind of weight nationally to the general public.

To the point of fellowships, those elite people looking to spend money only want *the best*. "You didn't do a fellowship? Why bother seeing you? Oh you went to Harvard? Then why didn't you do a fellowship. Must not have been good enough. I'll find an expert." Never mind that this is often irrelevant to most of psychiatry and that even the *perceived* "elite" programs are obtainable to decent applicants. Tbf, those same elites would also scoff at a fellowship from a lesser program anyway, I saw them do it repeatedly on one of my rotations in med school.

Some elite academic programs may only want to hire from other elite programs, but many don't care. I've gotten e-mails for job listings from recruiters from Yale, Duke, Northwestern, and California schools as well as plenty of solid but not "elite" programs like Case Western, Montefiore, Wake Forest, and Boston University. Some are at the main programs/hospitals, some are at affiliates with residents rotating through. Go to some job fairs/booths and get on the right lists and one can find plenty of academic positions even straight out of residency. Truly breaking into the depths of academia in the heart of elite programs is obviously more difficult, but getting an affiliation to add to your CV? Not so much.

A transfer like this certainly could be beneficial depending on what someone's career goals were and if they want to stay in the northeast, if they need specific connections to open some doors, or if they just really dislike their current program. But it probably also wouldn't make a huge difference for the average PGY-4-to-be in terms of career trajectory.
 
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Where I did residency, there was no mandatory call after second year. Transferring to a program with call would have been extremely unappealing to me especially because who knows what that "easy" call schedule would actually be like. Otoh, if my residency had a bad PGY-4 call schedule, this could have been nice. Ymmv.

Transferring and being a chief could be a great opportunity if it's a "chief in name only" type of position. Ie, chief has very basic duties like making the call schedule. If it's a more in depth position requiring knowledge of the system, it could be terrible for the time they're a chief which might not be worth the prestige.
I'd validate that, again, while things may have changed, historically this was home call where you were very likely to be called at least a few times, including after 11PM. Some people aren't bothered by that. For me it would be a total deal-breaker to have to do that q5days.

Also, several of the BIDMC chief roles historically were pretty heavy workload. While the various service lines could function without a chief, they relied on chiefs to function optimally. There were often actually two CL co-chiefs for this reason. It would be kinda silly to slot someone brand new into that role, however, since it's the one that's most reliant on institutional knowledge.
 
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