No, not another corporate addition!

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Princeod2583

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So I was watching tv today, something I Seldom do, and on the screen pops up an advertisement for the newest optical chain, Visionworks. They offer 29 dollar exams and 2 pairs of glasses for 99 dollars. How in all of God's green earth are OD's , who run their own private practice, supposed to compete with such ridiculous prices? Something needs to be done before this gets out of hand (although sadly it already is out of hand). My one question is, how do we get the AOA to listen to us. Are there political organizations within our field that get together and try to improve our field. Or is it the one or two concerned doctors, with enough passion for the field, who try and make a difference. Corporate optometry can be brought down, but I think that we need to organize a good fight, not some weak, disenchanted argument that no one pays attention too. Honestly, if OD's realized how much power they have and how important their job is in our society, then we could really turn the tables on these corporate bastards. Your thoughts?

Note: I am not only referring to the financial aspect of this problem, I am concerned about lack of respect that OD's receive from both corporations and OMD's.
 
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So I was watching tv today, something I Seldom do, and on the screen pops up an advertisement for the newest optical chain, Visionworks. They offer 29 dollar exams and 2 pairs of glasses for 99 dollars. How in all of God's green earth are OD's , who run their own private practice, supposed to compete with such ridiculous prices? Something needs to be done before this gets out of hand (although sadly it already is out of hand). My one question is, how do we get the AOA to listen to us. Are there political organizations within our field that get together and try to improve our field. Or is it the one or two concerned doctors, with enough passion for the field, who try and make a difference. Corporate optometry can be brought down, but I think that we need to organize a good fight, not some weak, disenchanted argument that no one pays attention too. Honestly, if OD's realized how much power they have and how important their job is in our society, then we could really turn the tables on these corporate bastards. Your thoughts?

Note: I am not only referring to the financial aspect of this problem, I am concerned about lack of respect that OD's receive from both corporations and OMD's.

I dont think the AOA will ever do anything, afterall, corporate optometry is not negatively effecting them. If we magnify issues explicitly in a national level than perhaps something will get done.

One question. What can the AOA do ? I just dont see what they can do. It's the OD's that have to make a decision. Relying on an association to fix a major problem is plain out a waste of time, though something may get done, after a long time.

Another opinion. In order to completly diminish corporate optometry (which will never happen, since its a buisiness), OD's, the AOA, Institutions and individuals which have a powerfull standing in healthcare in general, need to address the public that ultimatley, a 5 minute "examination" of the eye, is not possible. The public needs to be informed.

Perhaps, Opthomologists can declare the shortcomming's of Corporate Optometry.
 
How in all of God's green earth are OD's , who run their own private practice, supposed to compete with such ridiculous prices?
We don't try to compete. It's impossible to beat these places so there is no reason to try. The patients that go to these locations are "coupon patients". There is no loyalty, they will go to the place that offers the best deal. You can't build a practice on these patients. The majority of patients that private practice OD's see have insurance and therefore do not need to look for the cheapest eye exam and glasses in town.
 
We don't try to compete. It's impossible to beat these places so there is no reason to try. The patients that go to these locations are "coupon patients". There is no loyalty, they will go to the place that offers the best deal. You can't build a practice on these patients. The majority of patients that private practice OD's see have insurance and therefore do not need to look for the cheapest eye exam and glasses in town.


i whole heartedly agree! visionworks pricing seems to only attract the cheapest patients
 
We don't try to compete. It's impossible to beat these places so there is no reason to try. The patients that go to these locations are "coupon patients". There is no loyalty, they will go to the place that offers the best deal. You can't build a practice on these patients. The majority of patients that private practice OD's see have insurance and therefore do not need to look for the cheapest eye exam and glasses in town.

Even if these people have insurance they'll go to the private doc for the exam b/c of the $10 copay. But they'll run to the corporate entity for the glasses. What's the point of having insurance for materials if the private practice doc is going to charge $300-$500 for frames when the patient has a $100 frame allowance?
 
Even if these people have insurance they'll go to the private doc for the exam b/c of the $10 copay. But they'll run to the corporate entity for the glasses. What's the point of having insurance for materials if the private practice doc is going to charge $300-$500 for frames when the patient has a $100 frame allowance?
Possibly, but do you want to try and sell frames to someone who wants the cheapest pair you've got? My experience with these types of patients is that they want the bottom of the barrel frames that you don't make any money on and then they will have nothing but problems for the next 12 months.
 
So I was watching tv today, something I Seldom do, and on the screen pops up an advertisement for the newest optical chain, Visionworks. They offer 29 dollar exams and 2 pairs of glasses for 99 dollars. How in all of God's green earth are OD's , who run their own private practice, supposed to compete with such ridiculous prices? Your thoughts?

How do you compete? Simple.

The Lexus dealer doesn't lose sleep because there is a Ford dealership 1/2 mile down the road.

The Ritz Carleton doesn't lose sleep because there is a Motel 6 nearby.

You just have to figure out a way to be the Lexus, or the Ritz Carleton.
 
It really disgusts me how cheap people are when it comes to their health. I work at a franchise Pearle Vision, and every day we have people that look around, tell me that they're going to wal-mart for their 2 for $99 because they have "no money", and walk out into their new Hummer/Mercedes/BMW. 😡
 
Off topic, we toured JMU when my son was deciding on where to go for college. That was a beautiful campus with a dining facility second to none. Have alot of friends whose children are at JMU. Did you enjoy your time there?

It really disgusts me how cheap people are when it comes to their health. I work at a franchise Pearle Vision, and every day we have people that look around, tell me that they're going to wal-mart for their 2 for $99 because they have "no money", and walk out into their new Hummer/Mercedes/BMW. 😡
 
Possibly, but do you want to try and sell frames to someone who wants the cheapest pair you've got?

My office use to carry a few cheaper lines so those patients could still get a pair here. It is more trouble then it is worth. Those cheap frames would break and the patient would then complain about how crappy they were...well, you only paid like 50 bucks, what do you want? These patients can go to the chain, we don't care. As it was said earlier, those people are not loyal anyway. They will jump ship as soon as someone else offers a lower price.

We have patients every week who went to a chain one year and then come back to us. They then say, "Sorry, we learned our lesson." I then say, "I understand, those low prices are hard to resist, but you get what you pay for."
 
We have patients every week who went to a chain one year and then come back to us. They then say, "Sorry, we learned our lesson." I then say, "I understand, those low prices are hard to resist, but you get what you pay for."
:bow: Take notes. This is how successful OD's compete with discount chains.
 
One of the "joys" of working corporate is the bottom-feeder patient base. There's a huge attitude difference between private-practice and Wal-Mart patients. I always enjoy hearing patient horror stories from the corporate docs I know -- you can't believe how cheap a human being can be until you've spent some time examining these people.
 
I've had a handful of patients show up with no money. "well, I have insurance so that means I don't have to pay anything, um... right ? "
 
Don't worry about competing with bottom-feeders...you can't. My clinic is offers only high end frames and lens products, and we do very well, even though there is a "2 for 1" optician in town who offers free "sight-tests". If you project yourself as an actual doctor, which you are, offer the best professional service and highest quality products, you will attract patients that value these things, and they are the type of patient that you are looking for. Cheap patients who complain about money will never make you any.
 
Off topic, we toured JMU when my son was deciding on where to go for college. That was a beautiful campus with a dining facility second to none. Have alot of friends whose children are at JMU. Did you enjoy your time there?


we have THE BEST food!!! I absolutely love JMU, I graduate in December so I still have a few months left 😀 Where did your son end up going?

(sorry we are interrupting the thread!)
 
I also think that so long as there are Dollar Trees, there will be bargain bin optical retailers. The optometrist I worked for certainly could care less about bargain-bin customer loyalty. They seem to stir up the most trouble in the office when it comes to the services and sometimes sit through the entire exam with a cynical attitude. Perhaps it was the location (nice suburb), but I saw his office operate rather comfortably on 4 days a week with many loyal patients (friendly staff helps too) looking for style and quality. Similar to dentistry, where patients elect to have premium services (whitenings, enamel fluoridation, etc.) he outfitted his office with some modernized equipment and strictly higher-end selections. While much of the income is certainly from retail sales, the Dr. sees his share of medical patients, retinal photography, and "fully loaded" glasses.

I can see how his pride in his office instills confidence in his patients. Maybe you can't win them all, but who says you need to?
 
It has already been said....do not try to compete with these "dollar store operations", you cannot win. You are much better off getting rid of the cheap skate patient alltogether and focusing your energy on patients that appreciate your services. Not only will you make more money, these patients truly appreciate your services and become excellent referral sources of like-minded patients.

Posner
 
Don't forget, the frames at these places cost about $3 shipped in from China. We've seen recently how much care is taken in this type of cost cutting. (9 million toys recalled). Half these frames probably have lead based paint that seeps into your head! 😱

I've already had 2 patients this week tell me that "they've learned their lesson." Remember this is something you look through every single day.
 
There are thousands of people in the US who do not have insurance and cannot afford an annual $100 eye exam + $400 contacts/glasses. It might be hard to believe when you're making $100,000+ a year, but there are many people who simply use all of their money to pay rent/food/utilities/etc (and these aren't "I can't afford this" and then buy a plasma TV people; they're truly living in poverty and cannot get health insurance).

I think it is good that there are optometry practices that allow these people to obtain eye exams. True, they may not be the best exams, but they are surely better than nothing.

Most people with money and/or insurance don't seem to mind paying more for better service (45-minute full exams with dilations rather than 15-minute rushed ones, high-quality glasses rather than instant-break ones, etc), especially when it comes to their eyes.

Because they're really not that great of threat, I see no reason to have hatred towards those who provide services (even if less-than-optimal) to the poor who otherwise would receive no vision care at all.
 
There are thousands of people in the US who do not have insurance and cannot afford an annual $100 eye exam + $400 contacts/glasses. It might be hard to believe when you're making $100,000+ a year, but there are many people who simply use all of their money to pay rent/food/utilities/etc (and these aren't "I can't afford this" and then buy a plasma TV people; they're truly living in poverty and cannot get health insurance).
There are actually 33 million uninsured people in the US- probably more since that stat was from 2002.
I think it is good that there are optometry practices that allow these people to obtain eye exams. True, they may not be the best exams, but they are surely better than nothing.
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what about physicians and dentists? i can't image shopping around for a physical or dental cleanings. Where do people who can't afford medical or dental care go? Free health clinics. It was one of George Bush's pet projects. Optometrists contribute services to those clinics as well. So optometrist not only discount their services but give them away for free!
Most people with money and/or insurance don't seem to mind paying more for better service (45-minute full exams with dilations rather than 15-minute rushed ones, high-quality glasses rather than instant-break ones, etc), especially when it comes to their eyes.
People with money are more likely to be in a rush with their PDAs and blackberries. Quality, service, and convenience are very important.
Because they're really not that great of threat, I see no reason to have hatred towards those who provide services (even if less-than-optimal) to the poor who otherwise would receive no vision care at all.
capitalism at its best.
 
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what about physicians and dentists? i can't image shopping around for a physical or dental cleanings. Where do people who can't afford medical or dental care go?

Simple answer-they actually don't go!

You'd be surprised how long it's been since some people have seen a doc or dentist.
 
There are thousands of people in the US who do not have insurance and cannot afford an annual $100 eye exam + $400 contacts/glasses. It might be hard to believe when you're making $100,000+ a year, but there are many people who simply use all of their money to pay rent/food/utilities/etc (and these aren't "I can't afford this" and then buy a plasma TV people; they're truly living in poverty and cannot get health insurance).

I think it is good that there are optometry practices that allow these people to obtain eye exams. True, they may not be the best exams, but they are surely better than nothing.

Most people with money and/or insurance don't seem to mind paying more for better service (45-minute full exams with dilations rather than 15-minute rushed ones, high-quality glasses rather than instant-break ones, etc), especially when it comes to their eyes.

Because they're really not that great of threat, I see no reason to have hatred towards those who provide services (even if less-than-optimal) to the poor who otherwise would receive no vision care at all.

Well put!
 
There are thousands of people in the US who do not have insurance and cannot afford an annual $100 eye exam + $400 contacts/glasses. It might be hard to believe when you're making $100,000+ a year, but there are many people who simply use all of their money to pay rent/food/utilities/etc (and these aren't "I can't afford this" and then buy a plasma TV people; they're truly living in poverty and cannot get health insurance).

I think it is good that there are optometry practices that allow these people to obtain eye exams. True, they may not be the best exams, but they are surely better than nothing.

Most people with money and/or insurance don't seem to mind paying more for better service (45-minute full exams with dilations rather than 15-minute rushed ones, high-quality glasses rather than instant-break ones, etc), especially when it comes to their eyes.

Because they're really not that great of threat, I see no reason to have hatred towards those who provide services (even if less-than-optimal) to the poor who otherwise would receive no vision care at all.

Just because you practice in corporate optometry doesn't make you a sub-standard doctor. Nor does owning your dispensary make you a better one in private practice. There are way more qualified new graduates out there coming out of school that are forced to work commercial because of oversupply (not the only reason to pick commercial). I would take their skills over some of the doctors still practicing out there that are just DPA certified.
But also some examinations can be more rushed in corporate. I haven't done BV on anyone except children in a long time, unless they have BV issues.


Some frames are definitely higher quality in private practice, but that's not to say that I haven't seen a vast amount of people happy with commercial frames. I don't think I could bring myself to pay $300 for frames, $300 for progressive lens, $100 for AR from a private practice. I'm sure I'm high on numbers but maybe not.
 
My son decided to go to the University of Tennessee. Good luck with your future plans!!

we have THE BEST food!!! I absolutely love JMU, I graduate in December so I still have a few months left 😀 Where did your son end up going?

(sorry we are interrupting the thread!)
 
There's nothing wrong with being poor, but if you work retail you're going to interact with a higher number of *****ic patients than you will in the private setting. They may or may not be poor -- presumably people who can get into Costco to shop have some semblance of a job, yet Costco docs are a fertile source of opto-patient horror stories. My personal favorite is when a commercial doc I know opened up a drawer in his waiting area desk and found a nice, ripe disposable diaper festering away.
 
There's nothing wrong with being poor, but if you work retail you're going to interact with a higher number of *****ic patients than you will in the private setting. They may or may not be poor -- presumably people who can get into Costco to shop have some semblance of a job, yet Costco docs are a fertile source of opto-patient horror stories. My personal favorite is when a commercial doc I know opened up a drawer in his waiting area desk and found a nice, ripe disposable diaper festering away.

Good point. I can't even tell you the stupid things people said to me while I was working this summer... the manager told me this story about a woman who came in once and said to her "The medicine in my bifocal dripped out of the glasses and stained my shirt. I want you to pay my dry cleaning bill because it's your fault!"
 
there will always be room for different strata of professional service and dispensing. KHE made a good comment about the 'Ritz not losing sleep w/ a motel 6 nearby'
 
there will always be room for different strata of professional service and dispensing. KHE made a good comment about the 'Ritz not losing sleep w/ a motel 6 nearby'
The only problem is that the majority of private practices in the US are more like a Super 8 than a Ritz Carlton.
 
The only problem is that the majority of private practices in the US are more like a Super 8 than a Ritz Carlton.

So won't that lower competition for the 'Ritz' style practices?
 
So won't that lower competition for the 'Ritz' style practices?
Absoulutely. My point is that sites like this and ODWire seem to be overrun with Super 8 OD's which is why you see so many complaining about oversupply and corporate optometry. It has been my experience that the successful OD's, or the Ritz Carlton practices, do not complain. So my advice to all the students is when you hear someone screaming about how much better we would all be without corporate optometry, realize that doctor is sitting in his little office in the back of his optical shop next to the nail salon in a strip mall and nothing in the world will ever make him successful and therefore he will always be unhappy with optometry.
 
Absoulutely. My point is that sites like this and ODWire seem to be overrun with Super 8 OD's which is why you see so many complaining about oversupply and corporate optometry. It has been my experience that the successful OD's, or the Ritz Carlton practices, do not complain. So my advice to all the students is when you hear someone screaming about how much better we would all be without corporate optometry, realize that doctor is sitting in his little office in the back of his optical shop next to the nail salon in a strip mall and nothing in the world will ever make him successful and therefore he will always be unhappy with optometry.

😍
 
Absoulutely. My point is that sites like this and ODWire seem to be overrun with Super 8 OD's which is why you see so many complaining about oversupply and corporate optometry. It has been my experience that the successful OD's, or the Ritz Carlton practices, do not complain.

A note of caution about this though:

There are thousands and thousands of Super 8s and Motel 6s throughout the country but only a few dozen Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons.

It's not as simple as saying "Well, I'm going to be the Ritz Carlton guy." You need a plan, you have to be very attentive to every single detail and you have to be really good. You need a commitment to yourself and your practice that every single solitary person who enters your doors is not only going to be satisfied, they are going to be completely blown away. It's also much easier to collapse if you aren't absolutely on top of it.

If people have a bad experience at Motel 6, their response will be "Well, what do you expect? It's Motel 6." But they can have a good experience at Ritz Carlton and if it's not a "tremendous" experience they are going to say "What the hell did I pay $450 a night for? Screw this."

That's a lot harder to do than just say it or dream it. Start thinking of your plans long before you graduate and probably even before you enter school.
 
Absoulutely. My point is that sites like this and ODWire seem to be overrun with Super 8 OD's which is why you see so many complaining about oversupply and corporate optometry. It has been my experience that the successful OD's, or the Ritz Carlton practices, do not complain. So my advice to all the students is when you hear someone screaming about how much better we would all be without corporate optometry, realize that doctor is sitting in his little office in the back of his optical shop next to the nail salon in a strip mall and nothing in the world will ever make him successful and therefore he will always be unhappy with optometry.

Looks like I'm in this conversation kind of late and it's doubtful that anyone is going to read this... But here goes anyway... 😉

Don't take this personally Ben because my comments aren't directed towards you. I'd just like to use your comments as a starting point to speak to the rest of the readership... Thanks!

Ritz Carlton doctors do complain. I understand your point that they keep moving forward and they keep finding ways to keep up the Ritz Carlton way. But it's becoming more difficult. Yeah, okay, the older docs are going to say that the more things have changed, the more they have stayed the same. However, I feel, and lot of other private docs feel, that private practice optometry is diminishing. There are many factors involved here: proliferation of commercial places, too many graduating ODs, our association not stepping up to the plate, and even society in general which demands the Wal-Mart way of doing things. We are a disposable society which tends to want quicker and cheaper and quality tends to take a backseat because of this. There is still a market for people who want quality but there is a lot working against this philosophy...

Keep dreaming about that Ritz Carlton practice but think about reality and what works best for you in the meantime. Most practices accept a high percentage of insurance, even the high end practices, which makes us all vulnerable to the whims of these mega corporations. So most practices market themselves towards the average consumer/average buyer. Not everyone can be a Ritz Carlton practice because there are few people to support it. You can't build a practice based on rich clientèle if you are in a community which doesn't support this. Also, not everyone can build a practice in a rich community because EVERYONE wants to practice there--especially since I believe there are too many ODs and the numbers are increasing exponentially (think: more OD schools!). So believing that if you are smart enough and you work like a dog you'll get that mega rich practice, is not reality. There are plenty of other doctors who think just like you! They are all vying for the same patients. Think about what makes you so much better than the same doctor who has the same philosophy and gee, just think, there are more moving in all the time...
 
Looks like I'm in this conversation kind of late and it's doubtful that anyone is going to read this... But here goes anyway... 😉

Don't take this personally Ben because my comments aren't directed towards you. I'd just like to use your comments as a starting point to speak to the rest of the readership... Thanks!
No offense taken Keith. In fact I agree with a lot of what you said. I think however, you missed the point a little. The point I was trying to make was not that successful OD's don't think about corporate optometry, insurance reimbursements, etc. Successful OD's don't go onto forums like this and ODWire and complain about the evils of corporate optometry and how we would all be better off if Wal-Mart went away. For the record:

- I do believe we have an oversupply issue
- I do not believe adding more schools is the answer
- A large percentage of new grads have no choice but to enter the corporate world because that is where the immediate opportunities are
- There are plenty of private practice optometrists praciting the corporate optometry model (exams drive optical sales)
- There are plenty of Ritz Carlton practices out there
- You do not have to charge Ritz Carlton fees to have a RItz Calrton practice
- Successful OD's are concerned that private practice is diminishing
- Successful OD's know that less successful OD's will be affected by this which will open up opportunities for them


I have a Ritz Carlton practice in an area that is not the most affluent. I practice in a Navy town which means a lot of military spouses, shipyard workers, and retired Navy. Quite different from across the water where I could have Microsoft and Boeing employees. What makes my office a Ritz Carlton practice is not the fees I charge, nor is it the amount of high end frames I sell. It is the service I provide, and the way my staff treats patients.

I think a better analogy would be Wal-Mart, Toys R Us, and Target. In my area, Wal-Mart was killing the competition. For Toys R Us it was the holiday toy market. For Target it was the housewares market. The difference between how Toys R Us and Target handled the situation is very similar to what I see in optometry. Toys R Us chose to dramatically lower prices around Christmas and made some other changes to try and beat Wal-Mart at their own game. What happened? Toys R Us stores began losing money, so they could not afford enough staff. The quality of the service went down and the stores looked horrible. It almost destroyed the company. Target decided that there are plenty of people that will pay for good service, clean stores, and great selections. What happened? Target did not lower prices drastically, made sure the stores were spotless, and offered better selection at higher but still affordable prices. Target has since began to take away market share from the big box.

I see the same thing in optometry. Some practices choose to lower prices to compete on that level. What happens? They cannot afford to hire enough staff, upgrade equipment, or maintain their office. It results in those OD's becomming very bitter because they aren't successful so they spend their days on sites like this telling us all how bad coporate optometry is. Some practices realize that we can never compete in that market and their are plenty of patients that will pay for better service. Now, we have the advantage that insurance helps with that decision, and I agree that we are at the mercy of the insurance companies. Successful OD's use that to our advantage and provide more services that are covered by insurance as well as offer services that are of benefit to the patient but are not covered. The result is that successful OD's realize there is no way to get rid of corporate optometry, and in fact it plays a vital role in our system. Those patients that have no insurance and cannot afford to pay what an eye exam is really worth will not come to our offices. They just won't get eye exams if they are not available at a price they can afford. That is why you don't see us complaining about corporate optometry or corporate optometrists. They serve patients they we would never have the opportunity to serve. We do however, complain about insurance, but that is a whole different topic.

On final point. While there are plenty of Ritz Carlton practices in the US that have both the service and the price as the hotel, there are many more Target practices that produce 1 million or more in areas that may not be the most affluent in the country. My advice to everyone, is to strive for the Ritz Carlton practice, because even if you fall short you could still end up with that Target practice which has shown to be just as successful at beating Wal-Mart.
 
I have a Ritz Carlton practice in an area that is not the most affluent. I practice in a Navy town which means a lot of military spouses, shipyard workers, and retired Navy. Quite different from across the water where I could have Microsoft and Boeing employees. What makes my office a Ritz Carlton practice is not the fees I charge, nor is it the amount of high end frames I sell. It is the service I provide, and the way my staff treats patients.

I think the only thing we disagree on is our definition of Ritz Carlton. To me, that means going for the very highest paying customers at the exclusion of everyone else. There are few practices that can do this. You have to be on Rodeo Drive or maybe be in a suite inside the Ritz on Manhattan to be that picky.

I can guaranty you that you don't turn people away. In fact, you probably even take some low paying plans including Medicaid, just like the rest of us. To me, that's not a Ritz Carlton practice. I seriously doubt your practice centers on only the very richest customers. Your low end frames would be priced at $400 if that were true.

I'm not sure what better analogy there is out there but it better be centered on great service to customers of all income levels. There are few companies that know anything about customer service and even fewer that operate at all income levels. Nowadays, corporations have different brands to satisfy all tastes, like Ford with Lincoln and Mazda. Guess we can't do this unless you also own a Pearl... 😀

Good for you. Glad you operate at only the highest levels of customer service since people are really getting a hell of a bargain for their $20 copay. But really, have you thought about this? People often pay less at your office for an exam than they do at Wal-Mart? In fact, would these people continue to go to your office if they suddenly lost their insurance? I'm sure many would, but many would opt to leave or not get an exam until they got back on their feet.

It's a different world my friend. Insurance has made huge inroads into optometry (instead of the other way around).

Have you thought about this one? With you telling everyone to operate at only the highest levels, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot? 😱 After all, what if all ODs suddenly decided to take your advice? The competition for the same patients would be extreme and the corporate opticals would grow even faster since everyone would be ignoring the low end. I think this is what happened with Wally World.:idea:

Anyway, we agree to agree. :laugh:
 
I think the only thing we disagree on is our definition of Ritz Carlton. To me, that means going for the very highest paying customers at the exclusion of everyone else. There are few practices that can do this. You have to be on Rodeo Drive or maybe be in a suite inside the Ritz on Manhattan to be that picky.
The Ritz doesn't exclude people, the price does. Th Ritz offers exceptional service and charges appropriately. That's what I do in my practice. My exam fees are just as high if not higher than the OMD's in town which is far from $49.
I can guaranty you that you don't turn people away. In fact, you probably even take some low paying plans including Medicaid, just like the rest of us. To me, that's not a Ritz Carlton practice. I seriously doubt your practice centers on only the very richest customers. Your low end frames would be priced at $400 if that were true.
This is not true. I turn away people who cannot afford to pay my fees just like the Ritz. I take only one low paying vision plan and that is VSP. As for Medicaid (DSHS) in my area, it pays quite better than Medicare for medical exams.
I'm not sure what better analogy there is out there but it better be centered on great service to customers of all income levels. There are few companies that know anything about customer service and even fewer that operate at all income levels. Nowadays, corporations have different brands to satisfy all tastes, like Ford with Lincoln and Mazda. Guess we can't do this unless you also own a Pearl... 😀
That's why I like the Target comparison. I am not sure if it was Ken or I that brought up the Ritz. Either way I think it came from the Contact Lens Spectrum article - "The Ritz-Carlton Approach to Practice". Maybe that's a better way to phrase it. I have a Ritz-Carlton approach in how I practice. Would it make you feel better if I said I have a Target practice? Either way, I provide great service and I am fortunate enough to have a large practice.
Good for you. Glad you operate at only the highest levels of customer service since people are really getting a hell of a bargain for their $20 copay. But really, have you thought about this? People often pay less at your office for an exam than they do at Wal-Mart? In fact, would these people continue to go to your office if they suddenly lost their insurance? I'm sure many would, but many would opt to leave or not get an exam until they got back on their feet.
If you look at some of my other posts, I have said there is no patient loyalty. If a patient loses their insurance, they will most likely leave my practice. I saw this happen with a neighbor of mine that I play poker with every month. He lost VSP so he went to a big box until he got it back. Then he returned to my office. This was a good friend, so I know what will happen with patients I see only once a year. What I find funny in your post is your dislike for insurance companies. In my opinion, there are two options. You can complain about them and even try to get changes made, or you can use the situation to your advantage. I know quite a few multi-million dollar practices, and I can assure you they spend more time learning how to play within the rules set forth by those insurance companies than they do complaining about them.
It's a different world my friend. Insurance has made huge inroads into optometry (instead of the other way around).
You seem to have given up, while I choose to change with the times.
Have you thought about this one? With you telling everyone to operate at only the highest levels, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot? 😱 After all, what if all ODs suddenly decided to take your advice? The competition for the same patients would be extreme and the corporate opticals would grow even faster since everyone would be ignoring the low end. I think this is what happened with Wally World.:idea:
I really do not care what other providers choose to do. As I have said in the past, I do not spend my time worried about what others are doing. I would rather focus my attention on my practice. That being said, I have the advantage of knowing that the majority of OD's out there will never practice the way I do. I think it's changing as newer grads enter the market, but by the time it filters its way down to my neck of the woods, I will be retired😉

Anyway, we agree to agree. :laugh:
Fair enough.
 
The Ritz doesn't exclude people, the price does.

What is your percentage of cash paying patients? For your exams only--not the optical. I'm talking about people with zero insurance. What is the percentage of your profit that you generate from this?
 
TWhat I find funny in your post is your dislike for insurance companies. In my opinion, there are two options. You can complain about them and even try to get changes made, or you can use the situation to your advantage. I know quite a few multi-million dollar practices, and I can assure you they spend more time learning how to play within the rules set forth by those insurance companies than they do complaining about them.You seem to have given up, while I choose to change with the times.I really do not care what other providers choose to do. As I have said in the past, I do not spend my time worried about what others are doing. I would rather focus my attention on my practice. That being said, I have the advantage of knowing that the majority of OD's out there will never practice the way I do. I think it's changing as newer grads enter the market, but by the time it filters its way down to my neck of the woods, I will be retired😉

Fair enough.

You know, it's been over a year since I've made any significant contribution to this forum and I come back and only make a few posts and look who I run into. I actually remember you. You are the guy that for some reason just doesn't want to fully agree with anyone. We are completely on the same page and yet we somehow find disagreement.

I say something about this Ritz Carlton thing and even though I agree with you, you jump all over me.

Whoever said I don't know the system? Whoever said anything about me not having a million dollar practice? What arrogance! You immediately assume that I have a small two bit practice because you think I'm complaining. Not that there is anything wrong with having a small practice but you seem to think they are "unworthy" by implying that only a non-million dollar practice owner would complain. You know, I wasn't complaining, but if I was... I can complain as much as I want about insurance companies being unfair and I believe you know they are unfair as well. You just like finding ways to be disagreeable...

I didn't come here to start a fight, especially given that we are on the same page anyway. I was just trying to have a conversation. Wow, talk about one way. You dictating to me, telling me what a two-bit person I am. That's real nice. We really should be chums trying to find ways to make things better for the both of us. I guess what turned me off immediately is you implying that everyone else but you is successful. Too much pride sounds like arrogance.
 
What is your percentage of cash paying patients? For your exams only--not the optical. I'm talking about people with zero insurance. What is the percentage of your profit that you generate from this?
I would estimate that less than 10% of my patients have no insurance at all. I don't know off the top of my head what percentage of my profit is generated by this, but I would assume it is more than the the percentage of patients without insurance. One issue affecting this number is the patients with medical insurance that end up having to pay cash because they did not have a medical condition that I can bill for. So those patients would need to be added to the total of cash paying patients and I have no real desire to do that research.
 
You know, it's been over a year since I've made any significant contribution to this forum and I come back and only make a few posts and look who I run into. I actually remember you. You are the guy that for some reason just doesn't want to fully agree with anyone. We are completely on the same page and yet we somehow find disagreement.
I have never disagreed with you in this thread. In fact I said I agreed with most of what you said.:laugh:
I say something about this Ritz Carlton thing and even though I agree with you, you jump all over me.
I am not sure I jumped all over you, but I still find it odd that you do not understand the abstract idea that Ken was trying to convey with the Ritz-Carlton analogy. Sure, if you take the comparison literally, then very few practices can actually survive by only taking cash patients and having expensive fees. If you think in the abstract, the idea of a Ritz-Carlton practice is one in which you have exceptional service which is why patients are willing to pay more in your office. That "more" can be on the clinical side if they are cash patients, or on the optical side if they do not have a plan like VSP.
Whoever said I don't know the system?
I don't know, but it wasn't me. I never directed any of my posts at you or your practice.
Whoever said anything about me not having a million dollar practice?
Once again, not me. Although you seem to be very proud of it as this is at least the second post in which you have mentioned it.
What arrogance!
Arrogance is constantly telling everyone how big your practice is.
You immediately assume that I have a small two bit practice because you think I'm complaining.
I never made any assumptions about your practice. Plus with your reminders of how big your practice is, how could I think you have a small practice.
Not that there is anything wrong with having a small practice but you seem to think they are "unworthy" by implying that only a non-million dollar practice owner would complain.
Actually, I said unsuccessful practice owners would complain. I made no comment about how much a practice should produce to be considered successful, but in your arrogance you seem to believe that only practices as large as yours should be considered successful.
You know, I wasn't complaining, but if I was... I can complain as much as I want about insurance companies being unfair and I believe you know they are unfair as well. You just like finding ways to be disagreeable...
Once again, I never said you were complaining. I merely brought up my experience with doctors who complain. I agree with you that insurance companies are unfair. I just choose to try to find ways to work within the system. I have no idea what you do. For the record, clarifying my point is not necessarily being disagreeable.
I didn't come here to start a fight, especially given that we are on the same page anyway. I was just trying to have a conversation.
Who's fighting? I thought were agreeing to agree.
Wow, talk about one way.
I guess you fixed that.
You dictating to me, telling me what a two-bit person I am. That's real nice.
I never once dictated to you (whatever you mean by that) and I never ever said you were a two-bit person.
We really should be chums trying to find ways to make things better for the both of us.
We aren't?
I guess what turned me off immediately is you implying that everyone else but you is successful.
I implied that everyone else but me is successful? I doubt I would do that, as I feel I am successful. I hope you are successful too. Actually, I hope everyone on this forum is or becomes successful. There's room for us all, I think.
Too much pride sounds like arrogance.
I agree, but I think we are talking about different people.😎
 
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