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I don't know your parents rationale, but I can imagine immigrant parents telling you to mark just Asian if they thought you'd face less prejudice that way. In which case it's very much not disingenuous to mark both and explain it if asked.
It's not like OP is 1/40th Native American and trying to gain a leg up. If they appear Black in America they faced bias on the basis of their race and that provides context to their application. Obviously not an adcom so can only say what I think is right, not how it will be taken.
 
UCSDGAL1597 said:
For my entire life, I've listed myself as only Asian for race-related questions, because that is what my parents advised me to do. My dad is fully African since both of his parents were born in Tanzania, but he himself was born in Pakistan since they moved there later on. I've grown up with both cultures in my life since I have lived with my grandparents from Tanzania. Would listing myself as African now come up as a point of concern, especially since I applied to college with listing myself as only Asian?
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You're not African
 
Emh_omega-323 said:
I don't know your parents rationale, but I can imagine immigrant parents telling you to mark just Asian if they thought you'd face less prejudice that way. In which case it's very much not disingenuous to mark both and explain it if asked.
It's not like OP is 1/40th Native American and trying to gain a leg up. If they appear Black in America they faced bias on the basis of their race and that provides context to their application. Obviously not an adcom so can only say what I think is right, not how it will be taken.
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You're making a lot of assumptions that were not stated by OP. All we know is that OP has never listed themselves as African in their life and suddenly wants to do it specifically for medical school applications. You can act naive if you want, but the rest of us know what's going on.
 
Emh_omega-323 said:
I don't know your parents rationale, but I can imagine immigrant parents telling you to mark just Asian if they thought you'd face less prejudice that way. In which case it's very much not disingenuous to mark both and explain it if asked.
It's not like OP is 1/40th Native American and trying to gain a leg up. If they appear Black in America they faced bias on the basis of their race and that provides context to their application. Obviously not an adcom so can only say what I think is right, not how it will be taken.
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Yea, they basically told me to stick with Asian since they thought I’d face less prejudice that way. Since I live with my grandparents most of my upbringing has tied mostly to African culture, but I just put Asian bc of my parents. I just wasn’t sure if they had access to the race-related questions I answered on the SAT or when applying to college for example, and see a discrepancy from there. I obviously won’t put it if isn’t genuine but my culture is entirely based on my upbringing from my grandparents, so I figured it would be fine to put it on my med school app.
 
Goro said:
You're not African
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I am definitely half-African, grew up with Tanzanian culture my entire life. My family is heavily involved with the African Muslim community and has been for my entire life. I just didn’t want any discrepancy since I ever only put Asian due to my parents telling me that it would be better to put just that. it’s not like I’m being disingenuous, I just wasn’t sure if med schools have access to my old applications from undergrad and would see any discrepancies that would raise concern. That’s literally it.
 
chilly_md said:
Are your grandparents ethnically Tanzanian or did their ancestors immigrate to Tanzania?
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according to my grandparents, ancestors immigrated to Tanzania a long time ago as Khojas (17th-18th century) but the history of it all is very elusive since there aren’t any records. I still have family living there too
 
UCSDGAL1597 said:
according to my grandparents, ancestors immigrated to Tanzania a long time ago as Khojas (17th-18th century) but the history of it all is very elusive since there aren’t any records. I still have family living there too
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So you're ethnically Asian on both sides of your family, but have some cultural roots to Africa? You realize this isn't the same as being Black/African American on the application, right? Sounds like they told you to put Asian because you are literally not Black. Growing up in the culture doesn't suddenly mean you're racially Black/African instead of Asian.
 
UCSDGAL1597 said:
For my entire life, I've listed myself as only Asian for race-related questions, because that is what my parents advised me to do. My dad is fully African since both of his parents were born in Tanzania, but he himself was born in Pakistan since they moved there later on. I've grown up with both cultures in my life since I have lived with my grandparents from Tanzania. Would listing myself as African now come up as a point of concern, especially since I applied to college with listing myself as only Asian?
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Don't try and game the system by switching to identifying as "African", when you identified as Asian your entire life.
 
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I'mInDer! said:
So you're ethnically Asian on both sides of your family, but have some cultural roots to Africa? You realize this isn't the same as being Black/African American on the application, right? Sounds like they told you to put Asian because you are literally not Black. Growing up in the culture doesn't suddenly mean you're racially Black/African instead of Asian.
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I'm going to go contrarian here. Race is a social construct and self-identity, and you can change if that is what you want to do. If we were to use gender as an analogy, you can identify as one for most of your life until you realize that you really identify as the other. Yes, that first time to switch self-identification feels awkward; questions should be expected.

That said, from the conversation here, it will look fishy that this cycle you identified (hypothetically) as African, and you'll get people asking why you identified that way. You'll need to be sure you have solid answers that clearly showed how YOU embrace that identity, not that your extended family live in Tanzania. It needs to be well thought out. What are you willing to teach others about the Khojas to better understand you?

Yes, there are Asians living in other parts of the world who don't completely relate to their heritage Asian community, and you should reflect deeply when thinking about the race/ethnicity question. The more interesting issue is how you feel this will strengthen your ability to serve patients that you would be seeing.

Now, I'm taking your journey at face value. Start thinking beyond just the boxes you check, but also how you incorporate that unique perspective into your PS or other essays where you would contribute to the diversity of the profession.

EDIT: You can also always list "multiracial" or "Other" if given those choices. You could even choose to reply "not willing to disclose" if you feel discussing this is too complicated for most or you don't want to be included in the bean-counting.
 
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Mr.Smile12 said:
I'm going to go contrarian here. Race is a social construct and self-identity, and you can change if that is what you want to do. If we were to use gender as an analogy, you can identify as one for most of your life until you realize that you really identify as the other. Yes, that first time to switch self-identification feels awkward; questions should be expected.

That said, from the conversation here, it will look fishy that this cycle you identified (hypothetically) as African, and you'll get people asking why you identified that way. You'll need to be sure you have solid answers that clearly showed how YOU embrace that identity, not that your extended family live in Tanzania. It needs to be well thought out. What are you willing to teach others about the Khojas to better understand you?

Yes, there are Asians living in other parts of the world who don't completely relate to their heritage Asian community, and you should reflect deeply when thinking about the race/ethnicity question. The more interesting issue is how you feel this will strengthen your ability to serve patients that you would be seeing.

Now, I'm taking your journey at face value. Start thinking beyond just the boxes you check, but also how you incorporate that unique perspective into your PS or other essays where you would contribute to the diversity of the profession.

EDIT: You can also always list "multiracial" or "Other" if given those choices. You could even choose to reply "not willing to disclose" if you feel discussing this is too complicated for most or you don't want to be included in the bean-counting.
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Ah yes, since we can individually change our race based on how we feel, I would now like to be white. I'm sure everybody will accept that. See how foolish that sounds? You've learned the phrase "race is a social comstruct", but I'm not sure you quite understand what that means, or how race is constructed. You can mark whatever you want, but that doesn't make it sociopolitically true.
 
I'mInDer! said:
Ah yes, since we can individually change our race based on how we feel, I would now like to be white. I'm sure everybody will accept that. See how foolish that sounds? You've learned the phrase "race is a social comstruct", but I'm not sure you quite understand what that means, or how race is constructed. You can mark whatever you want, but that doesn't make it sociopolitically true.
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I'm not sure if you are asking the question from the perspective that you know the answer or not. I leave it up to the social determinants/social justice folks to explain (in a different thread) if this is worth discussing. Every health professional school will likely devote an hour to it at some point every year.

With @flightjordan 's point: the OP is not making things up.
 
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flightjordan said:
All of our ancestors are from Africa technically.

In all realness, where do we draw the line between foreign and native in this case? They've been in Africa for over 300 years.
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OP’s ancestors are from India/Pakistan that emigrated to Africa. This is historically pretty common and it’s disingenuous to consider them as African.
 
I'mInDer! said:
Ah yes, since we can individually change our race based on how we feel, I would now like to be white. I'm sure everybody will accept that. See how foolish that sounds? You've learned the phrase "race is a social comstruct", but I'm not sure you quite understand what that means, or how race is constructed. You can mark whatever you want, but that doesn't make it sociopolitically true.
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It is, in part, a social construct. For example, the idea of who was White and who isn't has changed vastly over the past 100 years in the US.
 
flightjordan said:
It is, in part, a social construct. For example, the idea of who was White and who isn't has changed vastly over the past 100 years in the US.
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Yes, agreed. And currently, Indian and Pakistani ethnic groups are not racialized as Black. Very different history and current existence too. Even in African countries, Indian immigrants have often clashed with Indigenous African populations (read about Gandhi's early work advocating for Indians in South Africa by denigrating Indigenous South Africans).

Please stop this, folks of Indian and Pakistani descent are not Black Africans. They may be *technically* African wrt the literal continent that they live on, but so is Elon Musk by that definition. I think we can all stop acting like we don't know there are very clear racial differences. It's all extremely disingenuous. OP has always listed their self as Asian and should continue to do that.

Edit: just wanted to add really quickly that race is not partially a social construct. It's entirely a social construct. If you have any confusion about this, please read Fatal Invention by Dorothy Roberts. And with that, I'm done replying about this.
 
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I'mInDer! said:
Yes, agreed. And currently, Indian and Pakistani ethnic groups are not racialized as Black. Very different history and current existence too. Even in African countries, Indian immigrants have often clashed with Indigenous African populations (read about Gandhi's early work advocating for Indians in South Africa by denigrating Indigenous South Africans).

Please stop this, folks of Indian and Pakistank descent are not Black Africans. They may be *technically* African wrt the literal continent that they live on, but so is Elon Musk by that definition. I think we can all stop acting like we don't know there are very clear racial differences. It's all extremely disingenuous. OP has ways listed their self as Asian and should continue to do that.
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It’s clear people playing contrarian here have a very poor understanding of the history of Indian/Pakistan immigrants to Africa/Caribbean etc that has been going on for the past few centuries. Or they just love to stir the pot. OP recognizes they’re Asian and should list as such.
 
Lawpy said:
It’s clear people playing contrarian here have a very poor understanding of the history of Indian/Pakistan immigrants to Africa/Caribbean etc that has been going on for the past few centuries. Or they just love to stir the pot. OP recognizes they’re Asian and should list as such.
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I think many of us here on this forum do appreciate their diaspora and the historical context. That is exactly why it is a question worth raising (it's not just the Black/African/Caribbean diaspora). I think I still suggested to select "Other" or "Multicultural/multiracial" Asian in my original post.
 
Mr.Smile12 said:
I think many of us here on this forum do appreciate their diaspora and the historical context. That is exactly why it is a question worth raising (it's not just the Black/African/Caribbean diaspora). I think I still suggested to select "Other" or "Multicultural/multiracial" Asian in my original post.
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I think Other or Multicultural is fine, and OP can present their experiences in essays
 
Bottom line -- OP is really asking whether they can grab some advantage meant for historically discriminated against and disadvantaged African-Americans, because they have some technical claim to African ancestry based on Asian grandparents being born in Tanzania.

They've been Asian for academic purposes all their life, but now, in this hyper competitive process, see a potential to maybe benefit from a preference meant for others, and as a consequence have rediscovered their African roots. And @voxveritatisetlucis hit the nail on the head. OP has a technical argument that will be dismissed by anyone meeting them as an attempt to game the system, notwithstanding all the wonderful stories from the grandparents that might be sprinkled throughout the application.

OP has been warned and advised, and now should feel free to proceed at their own risk. No, no one is going to cross-check an AMCAS primary against an SAT or elementary school registration form filled out by the direct descendants of OP's "Tanzanian" grandparents. OP should feel free to knock themself out!! 🙂
 
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