Non-science majors !

[MilwaukeeMike28]

What are you thinking taking History or English or Psych as a major if you are planning to go to med school ? Gimme a break - you are just a slacker who is afraid to take the hard classes. What kind of doc are you going to be compared to a biomedical/chemical engineering undergrad or a biochem major ? Come on girlie man - major in a science !

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[swimerpaco]

troll

 

[morganlefay]

I'm a Literature and Biology double major. Majoring in the humanities is not for slackers; after intro classes, literature and history or whatever else isn't a cakewalk. Furthermore, humanities classes allow for a broad base of knowledge, better communication and writing skills, better people skills, and an understanding of the world you live in. It allows you to see outside the science of medicine and into the art of it: the art of healing, dealing with people, developing yourself as a mature person. Also, humanities keep you balenced, because you're gonna have to take science classes as a pre-med anyway, and you might as well take humanities b/c you won't have any in med school. I'd much rather be able to tell my interviewer about how John Donne's poetry conveys the sense of helplessness and weakness of the persona as he lies dying, rather than constantly have to refer to how much I loved doing the xyz experiment in the endless lab courses I took. Don't get me wrong, I love science and love research even more, but with med school balence is key.

P.S. Psych is a science.

 

[tinkerbelle]

One of my friends was a music major in college and is now at Hopkins Med. He is just as smart if not smarter than half of my biomedical engineering classmates. It sucks that you're not open minded enough to realize how boring school would be if we were all the same.

 

[mommdtobe]

I have 6 friends who have finished Medical School and none of them are science majors. Are you trying to get people pissed off? Oh I know you have nothing better to do with your time. Stop and think before you make yourself look stupid.

 

[Kazema]

Ignore the troll.

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

I am a former software engineer and know for certain that technical degrees do matter. If you started talking about John Donne to me while I was interviewing you I would ask you to leave right there.

You arent going to save someone's life talking about William Blake, Allan Ginsberg or John Donne. Gimme a break.

As for history majors being equal or Literature you are freaking crazy - crazy.

All you non-science majors will ensure I will get any residency that I want !

 

[morganlefay]

I've had it with the damn trolls around here.

 

[liverotcod]

I am a former software engineer and know for certain that technical degrees do matter.

Gotta disagree on that one. I believe any reasonably intelligent person can teach themselves everything they need to know about software engineering in their spare time. At least that's what I did.

I've had it with the damn trolls around here.

Morgan, isn't that a quote from Walt Whitman's _Leaves of Grass_?

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

I seriously doubt you were a software engineer. Did you code in c/C++ ? Probably not..... maybe you coded in Perl, or Javascript or maybe some JSPs..... but I doubt you taught yourself anything very intense.

Good luck english major ! i hope you enjoy family practice.

 

[tinkerbelle]

"All you non-science majors will ensure I will get any residency that I want !"

You're in for a *big surprise* when you get to med school. You may be smart... as engineers, we do work are butts off. But realize that others do to. Non-science people take the same pre-reqs and take the same MCAT. My music major friend got like a 37. Believe me. He knows just as much science as you or me.

 

[liverotcod]

I seriously doubt you were a software engineer. Did you code in c/C++ ? Probably not..... maybe you coded in Perl, or Javascript or maybe some JSPs..... but I doubt you taught yourself anything very intense.

Good luck english major ! i hope you enjoy family practice.

C++ is for wimps. Assembler for me, buddy. Learned it so I could write games for my TRS-80 Model I in 1977.

 

[Kazema]

C++ is for wimps. Assembler for me, buddy. Learned it so I could write games for my TRS-80 Model I in 1977.

Mike = 0wnz0rf3dD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111!

 

[morganlefay]

Morgan, isn't that a quote from Walt Whitman's _Leaves of Grass_?

 

[Kazema]

I had the titular line in "Leaves of Grass". It was that scene where Walt Whitman was teaching that lady how to drive, and I pulled up next to them in my Jeep and said, "Man, I'm so tired of all these Leaves of Grass. I'm moving to the city."

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

I bet you are an english major ! That is the best education available for a future doc dont you think ?

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

Walt Whitman was an overweight homosexual who couldnt tell you what a carboxyl group was !

 

[swimerpaco]

This is the perfect example of why interviews are an integral part of the process. They can weed out the ones so obsessed with their own brilliance that they can't see the value of their fellow applicants.

 

[Kazema]

I had the titular line in "Leaves of Grass". It was that scene where Walt Whitman was teaching that lady how to drive, and I pulled up next to them in my Jeep and said, "Man, I'm so tired of all these Leaves of Grass. I'm moving to the city."

Come on, did nobody get the UCB reference? I'm disappointed

 

[NYCDesi]

I have 6 friends who have finished Medical School and none of them are science majors. Are you trying to get people pissed off? Oh I know you have nothing better to do with your time. Stop and think before you make yourself look stupid.

Guys, remember one of the rules of SDN - DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Just ignore both this thread and this loser. Please.

 

[kapnut]

i somewhat agree, i am currently double majoring math and bme and I know i work much longer hours than some of my pre-med friends who are majoring in humanities subjects. My Gpa has taken its toll because of my choice in major. when i ask alot of my friends why they are not majoring in science subjects if they are planning on going pre-med they anwser that it is half the work and they can protect their gpa.

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

Med schools have to know how easy history classes are compared to science classes yet they dont care.... they dont really give much leeway to an engineer with a 3.4 compared to a history major with a 3.9. To me that proves they just care about their stats and how they look to the outside world. No -way can an english major or a music major compete with a biochem major in med school.

good luck on getting all As !

 

[liverotcod]

No -way can an english major or a music major compete with a biochem major in med school.

I will take a shot at answering this with objective data. I'm quoting my posts from this thread

Originally Posted by bigbassinbob
<snip>Unless, of course, humanities majors are better at science than science majors are...<snip>

According to MCAT examinee data, humanities major matriculants score on average 0.8 better (0.1 lower on BS, 0.8 higher on VR, 0.1 higher on PS) than do biological science majors. Assuming that MCAT performance correlates to med school performance and board scores--which AMCAS also claims--it would indeed appear that humanities majors are better at science (or at least as good as) science majors.

The humanities major matriculants are also similar in science GPA, trailing by just .07: humanities 3.50, biology 3.57...

...It's interesting to look at the trend:
Math > Physical Sciences > Humanities > Social Sciences > Biology > Specialized Health Sciences

The specialized health sciences folks are a real outlier, at 27.9 composite, which is closing in on a full standard deviation. To me, this data suggests that adcoms believe that students with this major are better prepared for med school even though they may not be as smart (MCAT-wise) as, say, the math majors.

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

I just read that biological science majors are less likely than your average student to get in med school but biochem students are the most likely to get into med school.

the success of math majors is not surprising .... they probably kick ass on physics and gen chem. i actually thought math was a heck of a lot easier than science. i was first in my class in all my math classes and never really sweated it. science classes make me sweat because i never know what the hell the prof is going to test me on and i cant know it all. for example.... in my bio class I have to read two chapters a week, 2 of his self - designed study guides and his lecture notes which dont reflect the reading material exactly. In short it is tooo damn much to memorize in a short period of time. In a math class I could do every problem 4 times before the exam and know i knew it all ! not so in science !

 

[liverotcod]

... in my bio class I have to read two chapters a week, 2 of his self - designed study guides and his lecture notes which dont reflect the reading material exactly. In short it is tooo damn much to memorize in a short period of time. In a math class I could do every problem 4 times before the exam and know i knew it all ! not so in science !

Of course you're right, biochem isn't biology. And that (not entirely relevant) analysis showed physical science majors as outperforming humanities majors on the MCAT. Albeit barely.

Your point about the difference between math and bio is exactly how I feel about science vs. humanities. With science, you're dealing with facts. There is almost always a right and wrong answer. Whereas to succeed in the humanities, in a rigorous program, you have to both know the facts, and also learn how to make an effective argument. The reading and writing load can be intense. And then the test will ask you to recognize some obscure passage from Act XIV of _Waiting for Godot_ and explain its place in post-modern drama. And, of course, there's no right answer, just a bunch of more or less wrong ones.

For certain there are institutions where majoring in humanities is a way to skate by. But done right, it's a mind-stretching education.

 

[dshnay]

Yo Mike,

I'm majoring in biochem, and in my university biochem and molec bio is under the division of biological sciences, so i don't really know what you are talking about.

 

[Medikit]

Come on girlie man, major in science!

I want a T-shirt that says that.

 

[akpete]

nobody cares. go away.

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

I am just reporting what I read.... biochem majors get in the most and bio majors get in less than average...........

if you think about it ... biochem is harder than bio so it makes sense.......

i also think many schools have biochem in the chem dept.........

 

[Ajay]

What are you thinking taking History or English or Psych as a major if you are planning to go to med school ? Gimme a break - you are just a slacker who is afraid to take the hard classes. What kind of doc are you going to be compared to a biomedical/chemical engineering undergrad or a biochem major ? Come on girlie man - major in a science !

You are dumb as a post. Ha! I made a funny...

 

[liverotcod]

Come on girlie man, major in science!

I want a T-shirt that says that.

"So hey, what's your major?"

"Science."

 

[MilwaukeeMike28]

It will be either biochem or chem ............. i like chem more but biochem is more applicable........ who knows how that will turn out.............

 

[kapnut]

I just read that biological science majors are less likely than your average student to get in med school but biochem students are the most likely to get into med school.

the success of math majors is not surprising .... they probably kick ass on physics and gen chem. i actually thought math was a heck of a lot easier than science. i was first in my class in all my math classes and never really sweated it. science classes make me sweat because i never know what the hell the prof is going to test me on and i cant know it all. for example.... in my bio class I have to read two chapters a week, 2 of his self - designed study guides and his lecture notes which dont reflect the reading material exactly. In short it is tooo damn much to memorize in a short period of time. In a math class I could do every problem 4 times before the exam and know i knew it all ! not so in science !

Math major, easy?
how about advanced calculus or partial differential eqquations? do not judge the math major based on calc. I. Some of the math courses i have taken have been more than quite hard

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

"So hey, what's your major?"

"Science."

Best post EVER. I literally laughed out loud!

 

[Mike D]

I'm a Literature and Biology double major. Majoring in the humanities is not for slackers; after intro classes, literature and history or whatever else isn't a cakewalk. Furthermore, humanities classes allow for a broad base of knowledge, better communication and writing skills, better people skills, and an understanding of the world you live in. It allows you to see outside the science of medicine and into the art of it: the art of healing, dealing with people, developing yourself as a mature person. Also, humanities keep you balenced, because you're gonna have to take science classes as a pre-med anyway, and you might as well take humanities b/c you won't have any in med school. I'd much rather be able to tell my interviewer about how John Donne's poetry conveys the sense of helplessness and weakness of the persona as he lies dying, rather than constantly have to refer to how much I loved doing the xyz experiment in the endless lab courses I took. Don't get me wrong, I love science and love research even more, but with med school balence is key.

P.S. Psych is a science.

Awesome post Morgan

 

[morganlefay]

Thanks, Mike.

 

[leechy]

What are you thinking taking History or English or Psych as a major if you are planning to go to med school ? Gimme a break - you are just a slacker who is afraid to take the hard classes. What kind of doc are you going to be compared to a biomedical/chemical engineering undergrad or a biochem major ? Come on girlie man - major in a science !

Too bad personality transplants haven't been invented yet!!

 

[kapnut]

no one is saying that all pre-meds who are non science majors are slackers. But many pre-meds who decide to take the non-science route are are just looking for an easy way out. And no the adcoms are not shmucks and they know an engineering major with a 3.3 from a top ten university is a more competitive applicant than some one with a 4.0 in an "easy" major from some no name university. Come on and give them some credit.

 

[Ypo.]

What are you thinking taking History or English or Psych as a major if you are planning to go to med school ? Gimme a break - you are just a slacker who is afraid to take the hard classes. What kind of doc are you going to be compared to a biomedical/chemical engineering undergrad or a biochem major ? Come on girlie man - major in a science !

Well, my mom was a music major with a 4.0 GPA-whe later went back and took her science prereqs-maintaining a 4.0-and got into medical school just fine. Music is very challenging. Many of my musician friends are very intelligent-they choose to do music because they enjoy it, not because they can't hack it in the sciences.

This is for other people to read, BTW. You are a troll.

 

[ockhamsRzr]

Typical "right-or-wrong" thinker. The social sciences and humanities force one to understand the relative nature of the choices that are the stuff of life. But this troll is still wondering what his major might be, so are any of us suprised that his logic echoes the stupidity of a 19 year old.

Go read, and stop looking for the predictable in a relative universe...and god, don't ever treat my children if an adcom is dim enough to let you study medicine at their school!

More likely, a freshman english prof gave you a C on your John Donne paper and you just don't know what to do about it...

hahahahaha!

Ock

 

[Ajay]

no one is saying that all pre-meds who are non science majors are slackers. But many pre-meds who decide to take the non-science route are are just looking for an easy way out. And no the adcoms are not shmucks and they know an engineering major with a 3.3 from a top ten university is a more competitive applicant than some one with a 4.0 in an "easy" major from some no name university. Come on and give them some credit.

We find easier that which we are geared to do well. Some people find mathematics easy while others do not. Conversely, some find English to be easier than chemistry. This variance may very well be the product of physiology and genetics as well as fundamental brain development. Get off your high horse, take an earnest look around and you'll find that not everyone is a capable a writer.

 

[Jeff3614]

It's not about what you major in but how committed you are to that given major. Med school admission isn't about the difficulty of a major. It's about committment.

Remember, you are still required to take the base sceince requirements, which is a barometer for measuring how well you will be able to handle the medical curriculum. I don't know about other people, but I thought Physics was a cakewalk comparativly speaking. I took a Romatic Comedies (Shakespere) class the same semester, and wow, talk about having to change the way you think.

It sounds like someone is just bitter about the music students getting into better medical schools. I'm guessing you're just a troll. By the way, software engineers/programmers are a dime a dozen.

 

[Medikit]

I would so hate being an english or an art major.

 

[constructor]

It's not about what you major in but how committed you are to that given major. Med school admission isn't about the difficulty of a major. It's about committment.

Remember, you are still required to take the base sceince requirements, which is a barometer for measuring how well you will be able to handle the medical curriculum. I don't know about other people, but I thought Physics was a cakewalk comparativly speaking. I took a Romatic Comedies (Shakespere) class the same semester, and wow, talk about having to change the way you think.

It sounds like someone is just bitter about the music students getting into better medical schools. I'm guessing you're just a troll. By the way, software engineers/programmers are a dime a dozen.

sounds like you're the one who is just bitter about software engineers, not the other way around... dime a dozen?? i mean, get real for a second here... software engineers have practical, real-world, professional skills even before they start studying medicine. and it is a fact that they do work in their major that's way more challenging than music or humanities majors, hence it is more difficult for them to get a good overall gpa. most software engineers and math and stats majors crush both the mcat and the bcpm gpa... just look at aamc statistics. i have a lot of respect for humanities majors but i think they should stop talking about how it's an even playing field because it's simply not... the mcat is all about reading and understanding what you read so it's no surprise that humanities majors do well. and anyone can handle the science courses if they commit themselves to reasonable study habits.

 

[dshnay]

I would so hate being an english or an art major.

Same here, but that's because i find those majors to be super hard

 

[Ypo.]

software engineers have practical, real-world, professional skills even before they start studying medicine. and it is a fact that they do work in their major that's way more challenging than music or humanities majors, .

? Sounds like you don't play a musical instrument very well. My brother is a music major and is learning some very difficult Chopin etudes in several of his classes. Not to mention that music theory is very challenging.
Why don't you just talk up your major without comparing it to music? Based on your comments, I'm guessing don't know much about music-I can say this, because I come from family of talented musicians and am an accomplished pianist myself, and you would never say its not as challenging as "software engineers" if you knew the first thing about it. BTW, my uncle was a software engineer for 20 years and is now getting his PhD, and I can tell you he agrees with me.

Really, smart people know its not about the major, its about doing your best in whatever you undertake.

 

[constructor]

? Sounds like you don't play a musical instrument very well. My brother is a music major and is learning some very difficult Chopin etudes in several of his classes. Not to mention that music theory is very challenging.
Why don't you just talk up your major without comparing it to music? Based on your comments, I'm guessing don't know much about music-I can say this, because I come from family of talented musicians and am an accomplished pianist myself, and you would never say its not as challenging as "software engineers" if you knew the first thing about it. BTW, my uncle was a software engineer for 20 years and is now getting his PhD, and I can tell you he agrees with me.

Really, smart people know its not about the major, its about doing your best in whatever you undertake.

first off, i do know about music theory because i've had a formal education as a jazz guitarist. when i say more difficult, i'm talking about cerebral activities here, so music doesn't qualify as "difficult" in the same sense that engineering does, although i agree that music is more "difficult" in many other ways that aren't purely cerebral. the problem-solving skills you learn as an engineer are much more directly relevant to medicine because your role as a physician boils down to solving new problems based on what you're learned in the past, whereas music adds to your skills as a physician in a much more subtle way.

the only reason i compared it to music is because someone posted a cheap shot at engineers and compared them to music majors, so i think it's legitimate to point out what engineering's strengths are compared to music since i'm qualified to speak of both. and i agree that it's about doing your best in whatever you choose, but the fact of the matter is it's more difficult to do well in engineering courses than music courses (notice i'm not talking about doing well professionally, i'm talking specifically about academia) and i know this because i have friends of both majors and it's a well-accepted fact at my school. but not everyone can succeed in music and not everyone can succeed as an engineer, so we have to pick what would best serve us and leave the fairness aside.

 

[Jeff3614]

You obviously didn't read the post.

There was no cheap shot at software engineers, it's a fact that software engineers are a dime a dozen. Look at the job market. As someone who works in IT and is quite familiar with the market for software engineers I can confidently say that you are incorrect in your statements, even if they were misplaced to begin with. The music reference was just that, a reference. As it stands, music majors constitute the highest population of accepted medical school students, nationwide - thus the reference. I stated nowhere in my original post that one major was more difficult than another; I simply illustrated that every major, when investigated deeply enough, has its share of difficult coursework. Thus it's unfair to rank one over the other. Adcoms aren't interested in someone who does just enough to get A's, they are looking for people with a genuine curiosity of the world around them, people who motivate themselves to keep learning, people who make a choice to major in something they are truly interested in.

And since you enjoy speaking in generalities because your ego was hurt, please produce the data that supports your argument that software engineering is more difficult than music. After all, it's a well accepted fact at your school so it must be the truth. If you're going to make blanket statements, please present us with more than your own personal experiences.

 

[constructor]

You obviously didn't read the post.

There was no cheap shot at software engineers, it's a fact that software engineers are a dime a dozen. Look at the job market. As someone who works in IT and is quite familiar with the market for software engineers I can confidently say that you are incorrect in your statements, even if they were misplaced to begin with. The music reference was just that, a reference. As it stands, music majors constitute the highest population of accepted medical school students, nationwide - thus the reference. I stated nowhere in my original post that one major was more difficult than another; I simply illustrated that every major, when investigated deeply enough, has its share of difficult coursework. Thus it's unfair to rank one over the other. Adcoms aren't interested in someone who does just enough to get A's, they are looking for people with a genuine curiosity of the world around them, people who motivate themselves to keep learning, people who make a choice to major in something they are truly interested in.

And since you enjoy speaking in generalities because your ego was hurt, please produce the data that supports your argument that software engineering is more difficult than music. After all, it's a well accepted fact at your school so it must be the truth. If you're going to make blanket statements, please present us with more than your own personal experiences.

the fact of the matter (fortunately or unfortunately depending on your vantage point) is that adcoms ARE more interested in someone who gets all A's over someone who doesn't do so, regardless of what he/she chose to study with the exception of a few adcoms that genuinely care about the person and the life experiences more than the numbers. i don't know where you go to school, so maybe your experience is different. i go to a school near the silicon valley that is one of if not the best every year in the rankings, so there is a great deal of competition and getting A's is a whole lot more difficult than doing so in the humanities and pure science courses in my experience as well as my friends'. my school also has a reputation for grade inflation in the humanities like many ivy league schools, which makes the playing field even more uneven. hoiwever, software engineers from my school are not worth a dime a dozen because despite the economic downturn, they are still making six-figure salaries within a couple of years after earning their bachelor's and are still in high demand. i understand that this is not reflective of the way things are for engineering students in general across the country, so i'll agree that i was sharing a rather specific perspective of engineering graduates from the top schools who are not greatly affected by the current state of the economy.

everyone who applies to medical school is highly motivated and interested in exploring the world around him/her, so there's no distinction that can be fairly drawn between humanities majors and techies in this regard... each person just chooses to do so in a way that best suits him/her. i have great respect for people of both backgrounds, but i just wish they were treated equally in the medical school application process.

 

[Ypo.]

You obviously didn't read the post.

There was no cheap shot at software engineers, it's a fact that software engineers are a dime a dozen. Look at the job market. As someone who works in IT and is quite familiar with the market for software engineers I can confidently say that you are incorrect in your statements, even if they were misplaced to begin with. The music reference was just that, a reference. As it stands, music majors constitute the highest population of accepted medical school students, nationwide - thus the reference. I stated nowhere in my original post that one major was more difficult than another; I simply illustrated that every major, when investigated deeply enough, has its share of difficult coursework. Thus it's unfair to rank one over the other. Adcoms aren't interested in someone who does just enough to get A's, they are looking for people with a genuine curiosity of the world around them, people who motivate themselves to keep learning, people who make a choice to major in something they are truly interested in.

And since you enjoy speaking in generalities because your ego was hurt, please produce the data that supports your argument that software engineering is more difficult than music. After all, it's a well accepted fact at your school so it must be the truth. If you're going to make blanket statements, please present us with more than your own personal experiences.

Music does more for developing the brain (as well as keeping you centered and staying versed in producing art and beauty) than this guy understands.
My whole family are musicians-and part of the reason they are so smart and successful in what they have pursued (everything from Medical School-MD to Neuroscience to Computer Software Engineer to a Masters degree at JULIARD) is because of the positive effects that music has had on their intellectual progress and self discipline.
I'm willing to make a bet that more musicians are capable of doing software engineering-than are software engineers capable of being good musicians.
If this guy was really serious about music he would know this.