Non-special masters?

[ladysmanfelpz]

I'm currently sitting on some waitlists and worried about getting stuck if I don't get in. I need to have some academic program lined up if plans don't go as intended. The thing is idk if I'm sold on special masters. I'd much rather do a masters in something I'd enjoy and can get a career in. What are some other routes people choose to go to up their academic standing and simultaneously create a great option for Plan B?



P.S. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area. Pre-DO is the only subforum I know how to post in

Thanks everyone.

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[gamieg]

not sure what you mean by "can get a career in." do you mean that you'd be fine with another career outside of medicine?

it would also be helpful to know your stats/ecs if you're asking about application improvement for possible reapplication.

 

[Peach Newport]

You are very smart to be wary of SMPs. The typical SDN advice of "do an SMP" is, in my experience, terrible advice.

Not only to do they not help you (as much) as a normal masters other fields, but it's much harder to get the grades in an SMP that you'll need to get into medical school. SMPs are very high-reward... but also very high risk. You're doing a full medical school courseload. People who need a GPA boost usually also need to boost their study skills a little... and a full medical school courseload is NOT the place to get the grades you need to be accepted to medical school.

An MBS is the best option, in my opinion, for someone who really wants to go to medical school. You'll be able to hone your study skills and get the grades you need for a medical school acceptance.

Getting an MS is also a good option. If you do it in a scientific field (in, say, microbiology, pharmaceutical chemistry, genetics, etc, and not public health or basket weaving), and get straight As and great LORs, it will help your application way more than an SMP or MBS, but it will take longer.

 

[bears1992]

A SMP with linkage to a medical school is great. A regular masters degree really isn't going to do much other than raise your GPA and many adcoms consider the degree itself as an EC. If you are not going to do a SMP with linkage, I would just use the time/money that you would spend on a masters program and use it towards a DIY postbac. DO schools lump all gpa together so it's kind of hard to judge weather a 60 credit postbac or a 60 credit masters degree will help more but a DIY postbac is certainly cheaper and more flexible. The masters degree itself is pretty worthless to adcoms but the GPA boost will significantly help.

Is it your GPA that is keeping you from getting an acceptance? If you already have a great GPA, I would spend your gap year improving the area of your app that is lacking. Is it lack of volunteering? clinical experience? MCAT? GPA? Don't worry about your "backup plan". If you received multiple II, then you are close to an acceptance and a well planned gap year will get you over the hurdle that's keeping you out.

 

[Peach Newport]

A SMP with linkage to a medical school is great. A regular masters degree really isn't going to do much other than raise your GPA and many adcoms consider the degree itself as an EC. If you are not going to do a SMP with linkage, I would just use the time/money that you would spend on a masters program and use it towards a DIY postbac. DO schools lump all gpa together so it's kind of hard to judge weather a 60 credit postbac or a 60 credit masters degree will help more but a DIY postbac is certainly cheaper and more flexible. The masters degree itself is pretty worthless to adcoms but the GPA boost will significantly help.

Is it your GPA that is keeping you from getting an acceptance? If you already have a great GPA, I would spend your gap year improving the area of your app that is lacking. Is it lack of volunteering? clinical experience? MCAT? GPA? Don't worry about your "backup plan". If you received multiple II, then you are close to an acceptance and a well planned gap year will get you over the hurdle that's keeping you out.

I strongly disagree with some things here.

Where are you getting the idea that adcoms view masters as an EC? Maybe if you already had a stellar GPA that could be the case, but that's not something that comes up that often. Demonstrating that you're a serious student is arguably the most important factor in medical school admissions.

Raising your GPA is a damn good reason to do a masters. The reason I believe it's better than an SMP is because it is far more difficult to get medical school-quality grades in an SMP, and statistically it leaves most SMP students out in the cold. At least in an MS/MBS you stand a good chance If you have strong work ethic.

I agree that a post-bac can be a good option. However, a masters degree is NOT useless, especially in the sciences (even an MBS) is far from useless. There are good jobs in industry for holders of these degrees. You won't be making 200k a year, but 60k is very doable.

 

[bears1992]

I strongly disagree with some things here.

Where are you getting the idea that adcoms view masters as an EC? Maybe if you already had a stellar GPA that could be the case, but that's not something that comes up that often. Demonstrating that you're a serious student is arguably the most important factor in medical school admissions.

Raising your GPA is a damn good reason to do a masters. The reason I believe it's better than an SMP is because it is far more difficult to get medical school-quality grades in an SMP, and statistically it leaves most SMP students out in the cold. At least in an MS/MBS you stand a good chance If you have strong work ethic.

I agree that a post-bac can be a good option. However, a masters degree is NOT useless, especially in the sciences (even an MBS) is far from useless. There are good jobs in industry for holders of these degrees. You won't be making 200k a year, but 60k is very doable.

Many of the adcoms here say that MD schools do not give any weight to a graduate degree. In the AAMC 2016 adcom survey, graduate and professional degrees are ranked as "lowest importance". At least with DO, the graduate classes would count towards your GPA. I agree that graduate degrees demonstrate a strong work ethic but it looks like adcoms don't view it that way. Not sure if DO schools view graduate degrees differently because that survey was for MD schools.

The reason I suggest a postbacc over a SMP (without linkage) is because its cheaper, easier to get As and more flexible. The graduate degree itself does not matter, its just the grades.

https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

For DO, the average applicant had a 3.6 postbac GPA while the average graduate GPA was a 3.55 making it appear that it is easier to do better in a postbac.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-s...riculant-profile-summary-report.pdf?sfvrsn=10

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Sorry for the late reply. I was kind of wary about the ripping I would receive from fellow SDNer's, but so far have gotten great advice!!

A couple things first off. I'm the very best at being average. 3.5 cGPA, 3.18 sGPA, 503 MCAT, 100+ hours volunteer, ~80ish shadow, plenty of work experience, 6' white male with brown eyes. I do have several retakes for the sGPA as well, but its like what @Goro said its not really like 2 A's are gonna make that much of a difference in adcom's eyes and why I never thought to retake classes after graduation. I do have 3 takes on the mCAT as well, all looking to kill it but low scores in verbal each time got me. Last one had CARS of 123, but bio and biochem of 128.

This is 3rd year applying and feel like time off school may be hurting me, but I did take new MCAT recently and showed I'm proficient in sciences. Had tremendous work experience for this gap year, but did limited volunteer, only a dozen or so hours after relocation, but spent time on early apps and great statement and secondary. Currently on waitlist for PNWU and ACOM and trying to get off, looking for patient based volunteer. Talking with some current students I've heard what you reiterated @Peach Newport . One girl took SMP and did worse than undergrad, but was lucky to get high MCAT and got in. What is the MBS you talked about?

P.S. I've followed up with PNWU after each interview (yes this was my 3rd one there ). They've never said it was grades or mCAT, but late interview first year resulted in waitlist, last year was upset as it was only secondary and interview I received and interviewed poorly and denied. This year received a fairly lame excuse just saying they didn't see anything that stood out. I've continued to work, shadow, and volunteer and retook MCAT, and had a fine interview. What else do you want from me?!!!

Thanks for helping me with this. I want to get some apps in here soon.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Any suggestions please? I'm only on waitlists and want to get going on something else as well.

 

[Peach Newport]

Many of the adcoms here say that MD schools do not give any weight to a graduate degree. In the AAMC 2016 adcom survey, graduate and professional degrees are ranked as "lowest importance". At least with DO, the graduate classes would count towards your GPA. I agree that graduate degrees demonstrate a strong work ethic but it looks like adcoms don't view it that way. Not sure if DO schools view graduate degrees differently because that survey was for MD schools.

The reason I suggest a postbacc over a SMP (without linkage) is because its cheaper, easier to get As and more flexible. The graduate degree itself does not matter, its just the grades.

https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

For DO, the average applicant had a 3.6 postbac GPA while the average graduate GPA was a 3.55 making it appear that it is easier to do better in a postbac.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-s...riculant-profile-summary-report.pdf?sfvrsn=10

You're right but you're misunderstanding it.

What MD adcoms don't care about is WHETHER you have a graduate degree. The applicant with a masters in immunology or badger hunting isn't going to have much of anadvantage over the applicant straight out of college.

MD adcoms will, however, absolutely care if you suddenly start making As in a hard-science Master's, as long as it's not a notoriously easy program and you took hard classes. The point is that they don't care whether it's a post-bac, masters, whatever.

MD adcoms are reasonable people. They totally respect reinvention, but they'll make it harder than DOs.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of students who never got an MD interview get MD acceptances every year based only on post-bacs and masters. It's harder but doable.

There are a couple of MDs that won't touch a student with a bad undergrad record despite a great reinvention, but they're hardly the rule.

 

[Goro]

DO schools will still count your gGPA from a research MS program. As you point out, a research MS does have the advantage of providing you with some backup skills. If you go down this pathway, at least find the time to take med school-like classes, to prove your academic bonafides. "Seminars in Neuroscience" or "Flow Cytometry" won't really cut it in proving that you can handle med school.

I'm currently sitting on some waitlists and worried about getting stuck if I don't get in. I need to have some academic program lined up if plans don't go as intended. The thing is idk if I'm sold on special masters. I'd much rather do a masters in something I'd enjoy and can get a career in. What are some other routes people choose to go to up their academic standing and simultaneously create a great option for Plan B?



P.S. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area. Pre-DO is the only subforum I know how to post in

Thanks everyone.

 

[Peach Newport]

DO schools will still count your gGPA from a research MS program. As you point out, a research MS does have the advantage of providing you with some backup skills. If you go down this pathway, at least find the time to take med school-like classes, to prove your academic bonafides. "Seminars in Neuroscience" or "Flow Cytometry" won't really cut it in proving that you can handle med school.

I get seminars in neuroscience, but learning the details of flow cytometry sounds hard! I can handle med school classes but I barely survived analytical chemistry mechanisms.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but didn't want to start a new one. I'm still worried and not totally sure on what to do and pretty sure I've missed some deadlines. It may just have to be a post bacc from here. So speaking of that, I am on the waitlist for AZCOM, but would like to keep their masters of science program as a back up option. The thing is if I applied for that wouldn't that pretty much remove me from the DO program waitlist (more money for them)? So how can I go about being an option for DO, but do their masters as fall back if not accepted? Or can I?