non trad tempted to apply Caribbean

[CookDeRosa]

Ok, so I'm tempted to apply Caribbean. Specifically - St. George University.

I know I could post this in the foreign folder, but I wanted the input of nontrads specifically.

Background- I've been a chef for about 20 years. I have a culinary degree, and then later for personal growth, I earned a BA in social science. I had NO science/math to speak of in either degree. Since then, I've been taking pre-pre- reqs (the intros) and am now planning to start the real prereqs next month. I followed the nursing prereq list as a way of easing myself into the subject and also having a back up plan. Through a long and convoluted story, I'll just simplify it to say that money and time restrict me to taking 2 classes per semester, and that's a loooonnnnngggg road for this 40 year old momma of 4 - unless- I were to uproot our family, sell the house, etc. and go full time in a postbac. The equity in our home would pay for my family to live, hubby be home, and I attend school. Down side- med school would likely not be in the same city where the postbac is, so that'd be adding an additional move onto the pile of moves that I already expect.

So, I found a program at St. George that allows you to complete your prereqs and if you meet GPA criteria, you AUTOMATICALLY roll into the MD program. No MCAT, no application process, no list of interviews, just transition. This sounds so amazingly tempting to me. I'd be willing to move my family down to FL for the 4 years necessary before clinicals started (NY/NJ usually) they'd love it actually.

I know the "cons" of going Caribbean. I've immersed myself in that topic for the past 3 months. I'm not interested in a ROAD specialty (I like OBGYN) and my GPA is strong 3.8 however, that's based on roughly 220 credits and none of the sciences for science majors. Those are on deck. I can't imagine going through my sciences and keeping up those grades- I'm sure I'll have several "B" grades before I'm done. My point being, I'm an attractive candidate "today" with the higher GPA, and could possibly get accepted asap. The other option is taking the courses slowly at the CC and applying when I (might) have a lesser GPA, and will (certainly) be older. I'm 40.5 now. I also have not taken (or bombed lol) the MCAT, and won't have that variable solved for at least 2 years.

So, has any of you thought about the premed-->MD option like St George?? Just to go around the whole application process?? Huge down side is the cost of course. If you've considered and dismissed that program, I'd really love to hear from you.

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[militaryman]

Ok, so I'm tempted to apply Caribbean. Specifically - St. George University.

I know I could post this in the foreign folder, but I wanted the input of nontrads specifically.

Background- I've been a chef for about 20 years. I have a culinary degree, and then later for personal growth, I earned a BA in social science. I had NO science/math to speak of in either degree. Since then, I've been taking pre-pre- reqs (the intros) and am now planning to start the real prereqs next month. I followed the nursing prereq list as a way of easing myself into the subject and also having a back up plan. Through a long and convoluted story, I'll just simplify it to say that money and time restrict me to taking 2 classes per semester, and that's a loooonnnnngggg road for this 40 year old momma of 4 - unless- I were to uproot our family, sell the house, etc. and go full time in a postbac. The equity in our home would pay for my family to live, hubby be home, and I attend school. Down side- med school would likely not be in the same city where the postbac is, so that'd be adding an additional move onto the pile of moves that I already expect.

So, I found a program at St. George that allows you to complete your prereqs and if you meet GPA criteria, you AUTOMATICALLY roll into the MD program. No MCAT, no application process, no list of interviews, just transition. This sounds so amazingly tempting to me. I'd be willing to move my family down to FL for the 4 years necessary before clinicals started (NY/NJ usually) they'd love it actually.

I know the "cons" of going Caribbean. I've immersed myself in that topic for the past 3 months. I'm not interested in a ROAD specialty (I like OBGYN) and my GPA is strong 3.8 however, that's based on roughly 220 credits and none of the sciences for science majors. Those are on deck. I can't imagine going through my sciences and keeping up those grades- I'm sure I'll have several "B" grades before I'm done. My point being, I'm an attractive candidate "today" with the higher GPA, and could possibly get accepted asap. The other option is taking the courses slowly at the CC and applying when I (might) have a lesser GPA, and will (certainly) be older. I'm 40.5 now. I also have not taken (or bombed lol) the MCAT, and won't have that variable solved for at least 2 years.

So, has any of you thought about the premed-->MD option like St George?? Just to go around the whole application process?? Huge down side is the cost of course. If you've considered and dismissed that program, I'd really love to hear from you.

I would strongly advise against it. I dont know how much you like to gamble but having a low match rate would scare me. I would not want 200,000 dollars in student loan debt and find out later that I am unable to work as a physician in the United States. I currently work in healthcare as a Physician Assistant and I have never met a doctor that went to school in the Carribean. I know they exist, but that is not the common route. That said, maybe it might work out for you, but for me I would not make that gamble.

 

[DoctorIn2015]

I would strongly advise against it. I dont know how much you like to gamble but having a low match rate would scare me. I would not want 200,000 dollars in student loan debt and find out later that I am unable to work as a physician in the United States. I currently work in healthcare as a Physician Assistant and I have never met a doctor that went to school in the Carribean. I know they exist, but that is not the common route. That said, maybe it might work out for you, but for me I would not make that gamble.

I agree. And with the increased number of US allopathic schools, it's going to be an even lower match rate for Caribbean grads. It looks like you've got the stuff to make it in the US, you just need the confidence to give it a shot. Medical school is a challenge for everyone at some point, whether that is acceptance, the coursework, or residency match. I would advise against compounding that issue by going to the Caribbean except as a last resort.

 

[Lefty Doodle]

I agree I think the Caribbean is the biggest gamble of the options you are considering. You mentioned you'd be able to take 2 classes per semester now but to do a full-time post-bac you'd need to move your family. What about just going full-time to the place where you'd take classes? I'm doing a DIY post-bac in a year and I think it's awesome ;-).

Time will fly and don't be too scared about the MCAT--a lot of it is hype and it's going to be the easiest test we take from here on out ;-) And keep that GPA up you can do it ;-)

 

[DrMidlife]

Tragic waste of a 3.8, imho, plus where would the kids go to school?

 

[CookDeRosa]

I would strongly advise against it. I dont know how much you like to gamble but having a low match rate would scare me. I would not want 200,000 dollars in student loan debt and find out later that I am unable to work as a physician in the United States. I currently work in healthcare as a Physician Assistant and I have never met a doctor that went to school in the Carribean. I know they exist, but that is not the common route. That said, maybe it might work out for you, but for me I would not make that gamble.

Militaryman and ElizabethMN: ok, I'm not musing at this point- I'm seriously considering making a decision, so I'd like to get your feedback on the match info I've pulled from this year's website at St. George. It lists a match rate of 98%. What am I missing? How can I verify or disprove that number? Can anyone suggest a way for me to investigate that further?

"SGU successfully places 98% of its eligible US graduates into US residencies, providing the world with much-needed generalists, as well as specialists. 50% of our graduates get PGY1 positions in university hospitals"

http://www.sgu.edu/media/top-reasons/school-of-medicine/reason2.html

There is also something in their match list page that I don't understand - maybe someone could explain.

It says "29% of our graduating classes obtain residencies not through the National Resident Match Program. "

I'm wondering what that means directly and indirectly? Are these foreign students going back home? Is there some "other" match?

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2010/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1


On your other question- there is a DO family practice program at my local hospital and it's full of Caribbean residents. They even do OMM in the clinic here. Maybe I'm the opposite, maybe I'm over exposed and so I don't see it as all that unusual. Students, on the other hand, come from DMU and Kirksville only I think. FWIW, I'm a midwestern girl- born and raised, I'm 99% sure I'll end up here when this is all over and done.

 

[CookDeRosa]

Tragic waste of a 3.8, imho, plus where would the kids go to school?

DrMidlife- I don't really have a 3.8 because I have 32 hard science credits left to go. My GPA could be less once I start the prereqs. That's why the temptation of taking my prereqs at St George is so strong- they accept you for the premed program then you roll in as long as you meet the criteria. None of my family would live on the island with me, they'd be in Florida.



Ok, so I'm tempted to apply Caribbean. Specifically - St. George University.

I know I could post this in the foreign folder, but I wanted the input of nontrads specifically.

Background- I've been a chef for about 20 years. I have a culinary degree, and then later for personal growth, I earned a BA in social science. I had NO science/math to speak of in either degree. Since then, I've been taking pre-pre- reqs (the intros) and am now planning to start the real prereqs next month. I followed the nursing prereq list as a way of easing myself into the subject and also having a back up plan. Through a long and convoluted story, I'll just simplify it to say that money and time restrict me to taking 2 classes per semester, and that's a loooonnnnngggg road for this 40 year old momma of 4 - unless- I were to uproot our family, sell the house, etc. and go full time in a postbac. The equity in our home would pay for my family to live, hubby be home, and I attend school. Down side- med school would likely not be in the same city where the postbac is, so that'd be adding an additional move onto the pile of moves that I already expect.

So, I found a program at St. George that allows you to complete your prereqs and if you meet GPA criteria, you AUTOMATICALLY roll into the MD program. No MCAT, no application process, no list of interviews, just transition. This sounds so amazingly tempting to me. I'd be willing to move my family down to FL for the 4 years necessary before clinicals started (NY/NJ usually) they'd love it actually.

I know the "cons" of going Caribbean. I've immersed myself in that topic for the past 3 months. I'm not interested in a ROAD specialty (I like OBGYN) and my GPA is strong 3.8 however, that's based on roughly 220 credits and none of the sciences for science majors. Those are on deck. I can't imagine going through my sciences and keeping up those grades- I'm sure I'll have several "B" grades before I'm done. My point being, I'm an attractive candidate "today" with the higher GPA, and could possibly get accepted asap. The other option is taking the courses slowly at the CC and applying when I (might) have a lesser GPA, and will (certainly) be older. I'm 40.5 now. I also have not taken (or bombed lol) the MCAT, and won't have that variable solved for at least 2 years.

So, has any of you thought about the premed-->MD option like St George?? Just to go around the whole application process?? Huge down side is the cost of course. If you've considered and dismissed that program, I'd really love to hear from you.
__________________

 

[katiemaude]

I am nowhere near an expert on medical school or applying Caribbean, but I will tell you what I've read. I've read that some for-profit schools (not saying the one you're looking into) have higher than normal attrition rates. So those match percentages could be people who have made it all four years and performed well. I would ask them how many enroll as first years, what percentage make it to year 2, year 3, etc. Do they give information on median Step scores?

I have run into many docs who went to Caribbean medical schools - Ross especially - and who are working at hospitals in NYC and Boston, which is where they also did their residencies.

Do you live in Fla now? If you do, I would strongly consider giving it a shot and having faith in your ability to do well on prereqs, because Fla has some great in-state tuition rates for medical school. Btw that is another option you might consider -- relocating to a state with a medical school with a high rate of in-state acceptances and low tuition. I'm also not a mom, so excuse my sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but if I were I'd do anything to stay with them during those four years! That would absolutely make the Caribbean not worth it to me. I'd rather be 50 in medical school.

 

[CookDeRosa]

I am nowhere near an expert on medical school or applying Caribbean, but I will tell you what I've read. I've read that some for-profit schools (not saying the one you're looking into) have higher than normal attrition rates. So those match percentages could be people who have made it all four years and performed well. I would ask them how many enroll as first years, what percentage make it to year 2, year 3, etc. Do they give information on median Step scores?

I have run into many docs who went to Caribbean medical schools - Ross especially - and who are working at hospitals in NYC and Boston, which is where they also did their residencies.

Do you live in Fla now? If you do, I would strongly consider giving it a shot and having faith in your ability to do well on prereqs, because Fla has some great in-state tuition rates for medical school. Btw that is another option you might consider -- relocating to a state with a medical school with a high rate of in-state acceptances and low tuition. I'm also not a mom, so excuse my sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but if I were I'd do anything to stay with them during those four years! That would absolutely make the Caribbean not worth it to me. I'd rather be 50 in medical school.

LOL Katie, thanks. I asked, I'm happy to get some "nose sticking in"

I'm an IL resident. I have Southern IL here, which takes darn near 100% instaters. It's just, oh I don't know, one of the biggest decisions of my life lol!! It's certainly an option, it's just the MUCH LOOOOONNNNNGGGGGGer option. I'm feeling impatient, and I just turned down an acceptance letter into an accelerated nursing program (don't ask, who the hell knows why I applied), but I'm feeling really jumpy about doing something. My do-it-yourself science program feels so "un-something" to me. Maybe what I need instead of all this doubt is a glass of wine!

 

[katiemaude]

I am nowhere near an expert on medical school or applying Caribbean, but I will tell you what I've read. I've read that some for-profit schools (not saying the one you're looking into) have higher than normal attrition rates. So those match percentages could be people who have made it all four years and performed well. I would ask them how many enroll as first years, what percentage make it to year 2, year 3, etc. Do they give information on median Step scores?

I have run into many docs who went to Caribbean medical schools - Ross especially - and who are working at hospitals in NYC and Boston, which is where they also did their residencies.

Do you live in Fla now? If you do, I would strongly consider giving it a shot and having faith in your ability to do well on prereqs, because Fla has some great in-state tuition rates for medical school. Btw that is another option you might consider -- relocating to a state with a medical school with a high rate of in-state acceptances and low tuition. I'm also not a mom, so excuse my sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but if I were I'd do anything to stay with them during those four years! That would absolutely make the Caribbean not worth it to me. I'd rather be 50 in medical school.

 

[DoctorIn2015]

I'm also not a mom, so excuse my sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but if I were I'd do anything to stay with them during those four years! That would absolutely make the Caribbean not worth it to me. I'd rather be 50 in medical school.

I completely agree. My understanding is that Caribbean medical school is hard on families even if they get to stay together on the island, as the SO is unable to work or really do much of anything.

Honestly, it sounds like you really have what it takes to make it here in the US. If you could dedicate yourself to a program in the Caribbean to do the pre-reqs, why not take the same time and knock them out here? The only difference is no guaranteed acceptance, but it would give you time to get perspective on it, wouldn't lock you into the Caribbean, but also wouldn't lock you out of it either, if that's what you ended up deciding on.

P.S. The MCAT's really not THAT terrible, especially since you'll have just had all the pre-reqs!

 

[MCAT guy]

Ok, so I'm tempted to apply Caribbean. Specifically - St. George University.

I know I could post this in the foreign folder, but I wanted the input of nontrads specifically.

Background- I've been a chef for about 20 years. I have a culinary degree, and then later for personal growth, I earned a BA in social science. I had NO science/math to speak of in either degree. Since then, I've been taking pre-pre- reqs (the intros) and am now planning to start the real prereqs next month. I followed the nursing prereq list as a way of easing myself into the subject and also having a back up plan. Through a long and convoluted story, I'll just simplify it to say that money and time restrict me to taking 2 classes per semester, and that's a loooonnnnngggg road for this 40 year old momma of 4 - unless- I were to uproot our family, sell the house, etc. and go full time in a postbac. The equity in our home would pay for my family to live, hubby be home, and I attend school. Down side- med school would likely not be in the same city where the postbac is, so that'd be adding an additional move onto the pile of moves that I already expect.

So, I found a program at St. George that allows you to complete your prereqs and if you meet GPA criteria, you AUTOMATICALLY roll into the MD program. No MCAT, no application process, no list of interviews, just transition. This sounds so amazingly tempting to me. I'd be willing to move my family down to FL for the 4 years necessary before clinicals started (NY/NJ usually) they'd love it actually.

I know the "cons" of going Caribbean. I've immersed myself in that topic for the past 3 months. I'm not interested in a ROAD specialty (I like OBGYN) and my GPA is strong 3.8 however, that's based on roughly 220 credits and none of the sciences for science majors. Those are on deck. I can't imagine going through my sciences and keeping up those grades- I'm sure I'll have several "B" grades before I'm done. My point being, I'm an attractive candidate "today" with the higher GPA, and could possibly get accepted asap. The other option is taking the courses slowly at the CC and applying when I (might) have a lesser GPA, and will (certainly) be older. I'm 40.5 now. I also have not taken (or bombed lol) the MCAT, and won't have that variable solved for at least 2 years.

So, has any of you thought about the premed-->MD option like St George?? Just to go around the whole application process?? Huge down side is the cost of course. If you've considered and dismissed that program, I'd really love to hear from you.

Don't do it. Their schools are not very good and you will have trouble through the boards.

US MD + DO or maybe a PA.

There is a reason why it is so much easier, you don't have to take the MCAT or interview. These are all things that are practice for harder things, like the match and getting residencies. Like Step 1, Step 2, etc.

Avoiding these hurdles are the hurdles that make you who you are. Dodging them is like avoiding working your muscles and then having muscular atrophy.

I know the "cons" of going Caribbean. I've immersed myself in that topic for the past 3 months. I'm not interested in a ROAD specialty (I like OBGYN) and my GPA is strong 3.8 however, that's based on roughly 220 credits and none of the sciences for science majors.

Hopefully you're also not interested in passing Step 1 or matching into anything.

"SGU successfully places 98% of its eligible US graduates into US residencies, providing the world with much-needed generalists, as well as specialists. 50% of our graduates get PGY1 positions in university hospitals"

lol. How about a percentage for their students instead of "eligible graduates."

Guess what, School X places 98% of their AOA members into the most competitive specialties.

 

[CookDeRosa]

I completely agree. My understanding is that Caribbean medical school is hard on families even if they get to stay together on the island, as the SO is unable to work or really do much of anything.

Honestly, it sounds like you really have what it takes to make it here in the US. If you could dedicate yourself to a program in the Caribbean to do the pre-reqs, why not take the same time and knock them out here? The only difference is no guaranteed acceptance, but it would give you time to get perspective on it, wouldn't lock you into the Caribbean, but also wouldn't lock you out of it either, if that's what you ended up deciding on.

P.S. The MCAT's really not THAT terrible, especially since you'll have just had all the pre-reqs!

Thanks. Yeah. <sigh>
I can't knock them out, I'll have to fit them in. (knocking out involves hubby quitting his job/raising our kids and selling our house/using equity to replace his salary- whereas fitting in involves none of that.)

I'll figure it out. USA is clearly a superior option, but I (still) feel like the "promise" of entrance at SGU is a viable option. I'm still VERY interested if anyone else has specifically excluded or included that program in their plans and why.

No matter how it plays out, I do sincerely appreciate the encouragement.

 

[BLKPA2MD]

Thanks. Yeah. <sigh>
I can't knock them out, I'll have to fit them in. (knocking out involves hubby quitting his job/raising our kids and selling our house/using equity to replace his salary- whereas fitting in involves none of that.)

I'll figure it out. USA is clearly a superior option, but I (still) feel like the "promise" of entrance at SGU is a viable option. I'm still VERY interested if anyone else has specifically excluded or included that program in their plans and why.

No matter how it plays out, I do sincerely appreciate the encouragement.

....Avoid carribean sch. @ St. George's, tuition+living expenses+cost of traveling can easily exceed $67K/yr. Just recent spoke to a 3rd yr MS @ St. George's. Would strongly advise against going to the carribean.

 

[CookDeRosa]

There is a reason why it is so much easier, you don't have to take the MCAT or interview. These are all things that are practice for harder things, like the match and getting residencies. Like Step 1, Step 2, etc.

Avoiding these hurdles are the hurdles that make you who you are. Dodging them is like avoiding working your muscles and then having muscular atrophy.

This. You just made my decision for me. You are absolutely right! AND, I've told this to my kids a million times. Total hand slap to the head- I'm back on track. Thanks!!

 

[0919mmk]

Good call MCATguy (I pretty much trust anything he says due to his Gob avatars).

Yes, truth is that if you've never taken the MCAT, Step 1 could be prohibitively difficult. The study habits and hard work necessary to do well on the MCAT are a starting point for the much harder Step 1's.

Also, dont worry about "being too old". 1) Especially if you go DO, I can almost guarantee you will not be the oldest person in your class. 2) I used to worry about this, but then do this calculation: if you retire when you are 65, you will still have X years as a fully-fledged attending. Depending on your specific situation/specialty etc, if you are 40 now, +2 years to get in, +4 years, +~4 years residency, X=15 years for you.

15 years is plenty long enough to do anything in my books! You'll be a veteran doctor when you retire with war stories, triumphs, defeats. 15 years is a long-ass time

 

[CookDeRosa]

Good call MCATguy (I pretty much trust anything he says due to his Gob avatars).

Yes, truth is that if you've never taken the MCAT, Step 1 could be prohibitively difficult. The study habits and hard work necessary to do well on the MCAT are a starting point for the much harder Step 1's.

Also, dont worry about "being too old". 1) Especially if you go DO, I can almost guarantee you will not be the oldest person in your class. 2) I used to worry about this, but then do this calculation: if you retire when you are 65, you will still have X years as a fully-fledged attending. Depending on your specific situation/specialty etc, if you are 40 now, +2 years to get in, +4 years, +~4 years residency, X=15 years for you.

15 years is plenty long enough to do anything in my books! You'll be a veteran doctor when you retire with war stories, triumphs, defeats. 15 years is a long-ass time

Thanks! 15 years? Shhhhheeeeet, I won't even be out of debt by then But, I'm healthy and have a good family history of living >80, so I'm planning on working as long as I can! I'm not the "retirement-type."

 

[0919mmk]

Thanks! 15 years? Shhhhheeeeet, I won't even be out of debt by then But, I'm healthy and have a good family history of living >80, so I'm planning on working as long as I can! I'm not the "retirement-type."

Good for you! Then I would strongly suggest doing this the hard way; I think that will make your life much easier down the road. And yeah, by the time we all retire, life expectancy will be 90 and SS checks will start at 78

 

[Lefty Doodle]

You'll probably work past 65--my dad has been a doctor since he was 26 and is going to go full-time until he's 70 (god willing) and then probably keep going part-time because he'd get antsy. You'll pay it off no problem!!

It sounds like you've gotten yourself back on track. But one other thing my dad has tried to instill in me is that I need to focus on making myself the best doctor I can be, starting now. He knows I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, somehow, but encourages me to not get complacent and do more than my best so I have the opportunity to get a great medical education and work with the best people possible, at every step. The Caribbean just isn't that plus I'd be a little freaked out about them losing accreditation or getting put on probation. I only know of 2 people who went Carib and one of them failed every step on his boards at least once (he is living the good life these days however) and another only matched into a prelim residency spot (very bright guy though, he'll be fine). So many people who have already messed up their GPA's would kill to be you and to be able to go back and do it all with more purpose. You'll be fiiine ;-). Also if you can't get into MD I'm sure your stats will be good enough for DO.

 

[nontradguy]

"Ok, so I'm tempted to apply Caribbean. ..."

Not to rehash this thread, but this person posted their related experience.


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=731694

 

[MiDoc2]

IMHO, I think you could get into a US DO school. I'm a non-trad with a business degree and took my pre-reqs two at a time. I went year round and it took me a year and a half and I used the left over time between the next app cycle to study for/take the MCAT. You can do it! I started studying for the exam part time and took a month off before to really hit the books hard. The MCAT isn't all that bad and as people say the material will be fresh in your mind. GL!

 

[CookDeRosa]

IMHO, I think you could get into a US DO school. I'm a non-trad with a business degree and took my pre-reqs two at a time. I went year round and it took me a year and a half and I used the left over time between the next app cycle to study for/take the MCAT. You can do it! I started studying for the exam part time and took a month off before to really hit the books hard. The MCAT isn't all that bad and as people say the material will be fresh in your mind. GL!

Thanks, on my list of preferences, DO school makes up numbers 2-27
I'm in IL, so Southern Illinois University has to be number 1. After talking to many people in the forum and through PMs, I think I'm willing to apply two cycles instead of applying Caribbean. Not because it's bad, but because I'm quite certain they'd take my money whether or not I had any chance of success If i can't get in to a USA school, it might mean that I shouldn't get in....that it's not a fit for me academically or otherwise. So, if I get rejected two cycles in a row, then I'll go in a different direction career-wise.

 

[0919mmk]

Thanks, on my list of preferences, DO school makes up numbers 2-27
I'm in IL, so Southern Illinois University has to be number 1. After talking to many people in the forum and through PMs, I think I'm willing to apply two cycles instead of applying Caribbean. Not because it's bad, but because I'm quite certain they'd take my money whether or not I had any chance of success If i can't get in to a USA school, it might mean that I shouldn't get in....that it's not a fit for me academically or otherwise. So, if I get rejected two cycles in a row, then I'll go in a different direction career-wise.

Stamp of approval for this plan. Right on. Glad we could steer you in the right direction. This plan will work much better for you in the long run.

 

[apumic]

Don't Do It, Man. Just don't apply Carib!
It's not worth it, dude....