Non-traditional student looking to go back - advice wanted

[busybeingborn]

Hello all,

I am new here and was so excited to find this forum. I have already read through quite a few threads and found lots of great info, so thanks for that! I've also been reading some books about applying to psych grad programs. Nonetheless, I have some nagging questions and dilemmas that I hope y'all may be kind enough to address.

I am currently a licensed master's level psychologist working in Kansas (will be a licensed clinical psychotherapist shortly). I am settled - house, spouse, kids, even a dog - so moving for the sake of school is not an option. That said, I feel driven to return for my PhD or PsyD. I am considering University of Kansas, University of Missouri-Kansas City, and Forest Institute (maybe). I would like to concentrate my studies in either neuropsychology or health psychology. I hope to apply for attendance for Fall 2010 (meaning apps. would be due this Dec. or Jan of 2010).

I feel that my application would be very strong in some areas, but very weak in others. My work experience is in working with severely and persistently mentally ill adults (both inpatient and community-based), although I also have practica experience with severely emotionally disturbed kids and brain-injured adults. All told, I have 10 years of clinical experience. I went to small schools for both my undergrad and grad. I have ZERO research experience, as there were literally no psych labs at the schools I have attended. My undergrad GPA was 3.85, and my grad GPA was 4.0. I took the GRE about 4 years ago (pre-Master's) with verbal 650, quantitative 620, and analytical 4.0 (yuck).

I'm working on composing a sort of to-do list for myself and also looking for any and all feedback or advice from those of you who have been there, done that (or not - lol). My head is constantly swirling with all of the challenges and possibilities involved here.

Specifically, I would like to know:
1) What areas do you think I should try to improve before applying?
2) What are my best options for getting research experience? I am open to taking on part-time paid or volunteer work. Any tips or leads are welcome.
3) I should retake the GRE - agreed?
3) Any predictions regarding my chances of actually getting in?
4) Do any of you have words of hope or wisdom for me?

If you've taken the time to read through this and respond, thank you so much!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cara susanna]

If you want your PhD, I would get more research experience.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Do you live by any universities (or large hospitals)? They may have psych labs that you could volunteer in (or even work for pay)...

 

[busybeingborn]

Do you live by an universities (or large hospitals)? They may have psych labs that you could volunteer in (or even work for pay)...

I do live somewhat near both KU and KU Med. What is the best option for making contacts - reach out to the lab or to a particular researcher who is doing work of interest to me?

 

[deleted176373]

BIG BIG different between Forest and KU. Know the difference!!!

KU is a great program, IF you can get in. I managed to get an interview there but came up short when it came to securing an admission (the other person who interviewed was awesome and a better fit by far.) Great news is that the faculty will consider non-traditional students, bad news is they have about 8-10 slots per year.

Research experience for a program like the one at KU is critical. KU has an excellent health/medical psychology program.

My stats, so that you can compare, was 1300/5.5 GRE/A and a 4.0 undergrad GPA. I went to a lower tier school but graduated from an honors program and we had one student from our school who already was successful in their clinical psych program.

Mark

 

[busybeingborn]

BIG BIG different between Forest and KU. Know the difference!!!

Yep - I've done some research. I know the difference. Honestly, I have so few options on the table to start with that I am hesitant to remove any just yet. Thank you for your reply, Mark.

 

[dd123]

I was an older, non-traditional student as well.

My biggest asset in the application process was my ability to network. I have a solid gre, gpa, etc, and plenty of research experience too, but so do most people. Through my research, and because I was older (not saying that the younger can't network, but my classmates sure don't ahve the sense of it that I do), I established a network of faculty and PhDs who have been my advisors for the past 2 years.

These people have believed in me, and have put effort into helping me find my way: this ranged from proofreading to advocating on my behalf. I strongly suggest that you put the time into getting everything together before applying anywhere. Talk to people, let them know you're serious, etc., and if they believe in you, they'll help.

A few years ago a prof told me that academia was designed to move certain people through the system faster than others. Make sure that you're one of those people, and then find the people who will look out for you. Of course, that doesn't happen over night.

My point is that you should leverage the one thing that makes you different, which is your maturity and interpersonal skills.

 

[psychmama]

I'm also an older nontrad. I'd second what dd said -- we have the advantage of being rooted somewhere and having connections, as well as greater maturity due to life experience. I'd add that there have been a number of people who really cheered me on through this process. I think a number of my friends were rooting for a career-changer with kids to succeed!

I found that some programs overlooked the fact that I had a bit less research experience, although I think I would have been more competitive if I'd RA'd for a year before applying. Regardless, I made it into a solid program that is balanced but leans practice-oriented. If I'd wanted more options at Phd programs, the additional research experience would have been necessary.

PS - Like you, my options were limited by not being able to move for grad school. Since you already have this limitation, being as strong a candidate as possible is especially important.

 

[busybeingborn]

Thank you, dd123 and psychmama. It's so reassuring to hear from people like you. Glad to know that being an older non-traditional student can be seen as a positive by admissions committees. You are right that I need to make myself the strongest candidate that I can be. That is my mission, for the time being anyway. I do have a number of people "in my corner," and I think that will make a big difference for me.

 

[PsyDr]

i know your state has "masters level psychologists" but you are not a psychologist. APA's definition is : "Psychologists have a doctoral degree in psychology from an organized, sequential program in a regionally accredited university or professional school"

i would be extremely careful about throwing that title around anywhere, especially in any admissions thing. tends to piss off the people who actually got a doctorate.

1) you need research experience and a better gre.

2) no help here

3) mediocre for the phd programs. you will prolly will get into forest if you are willing to pay. there are problems with forest, given your stated goal of not moving.

4) look at appic.org to see how many internships are in your area. figure out your chances of actually landing one of those. staying in the area might not be realistic. additionally, you should look at the aacn hcg post-docs and see if there are any in your area. if not, then you would have to decide if ABN or ABpN are acceptable alternatives to being board certified neuropsychologist. acquaint yourself with the problems of these other boards. health psych might be easier to get boarded in, i am not sure.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm not sure if retaking the GRE is absolutely necessary. KU doesn't use cutoffs, so if you're good enough in other areas you'd be fine. The problem IMO is research experience. Also, you're not applying to consistent types of programs, so be prepared to explain why Forest if KU asks, with an answer that doesn't just involve staying in the area.

 

[deleted176373]

I'm not sure if retaking the GRE is absolutely necessary. KU doesn't use cutoffs, so if you're good enough in other areas you'd be fine. The problem IMO is research experience. Also, you're not applying to consistent types of programs, so be prepared to explain why Forest if KU asks, with an answer that doesn't just involve staying in the area.

KU might not use cutoffs, but believe me, it's an extremely competitive program to gain admission to. They have a good reputation and attract top talent.

This is not to say that you must re-take your GRE (because honestly it's pretty decent overall.) I see getting the research experience and proving that you are a great fit for the program as being your biggest concerns.

Mark

PS - As far as Forest goes, as long as you still have a pulse, I think your stats would make you a shoe in there.

 

[psychgirl77]

You may have to retake the GRE anyway, though because some schools require GRE scores from the last two years.

 

[busybeingborn]

i know your state has "masters level psychologists" but you are not a psychologist. APA's definition is : "Psychologists have a doctoral degree in psychology from an organized, sequential program in a regionally accredited university or professional school"

i would be extremely careful about throwing that title around anywhere, especially in any admissions thing. tends to piss off the people who actually got a doctorate.

1) you need research experience and a better gre.

2) no help here

3) mediocre for the phd programs. you will prolly will get into forest if you are willing to pay. there are problems with forest, given your stated goal of not moving.

4) look at appic.org to see how many internships are in your area. figure out your chances of actually landing one of those. staying in the area might not be realistic. additionally, you should look at the aacn hcg post-docs and see if there are any in your area. if not, then you would have to decide if ABN or ABpN are acceptable alternatives to being board certified neuropsychologist. acquaint yourself with the problems of these other boards. health psych might be easier to get boarded in, i am not sure.

I'm not sure if retaking the GRE is absolutely necessary. KU doesn't use cutoffs, so if you're good enough in other areas you'd be fine. The problem IMO is research experience. Also, you're not applying to consistent types of programs, so be prepared to explain why Forest if KU asks, with an answer that doesn't just involve staying in the area.

KU might not use cutoffs, but believe me, it's an extremely competitive program to gain admission to. They have a good reputation and attract top talent.

This is not to say that you must re-take your GRE (because honestly it's pretty decent overall.) I see getting the research experience and proving that you are a great fit for the program as being your biggest concerns.

Mark

PS - As far as Forest goes, as long as you still have a pulse, I think your stats would make you a shoe in there.

You may have to retake the GRE anyway, though because some schools require GRE scores from the last two years.

Thank you, everyone, for replying. I truly value your input - lots to ponder here.

I am not trying to ignite any sort of debate re: master's vs. doctorate. Clearly, I am making no attempt to represent my license as anything other than what it is - on this board, at my job, or on any grad. school apps. I may complete. And, clearly, I am not entirely satisfied with my level of knowledge and skills - thus, the decision to pursue a doctorate.

I intend to gain research experience prior to applying. I need to do this in part to strengthen my application and in part to see if I truly have an interest in lab work. I don't want to sign onto a research program and then realize that I hate it. I need to make sure that I will be a good fit for any type of phD program before applying. Like I said, direct research is a new area for me. I have some ideas about how to make contacts in the research world, but I am also open to any ideas those of you with more experience in this area may have.

I took the GRE with very little studying. I plan to prepare fully and retake it. I expect my score, although already decent, will improve and make me a more competitive candidate.

Forest Insitute is unlikely, in any circumstance. They do have a psyD with neuropsych concentration, but I have some concerns about cost, distance, and their reputation.

PSYDR- thank you for the websites re: internship. That will be useful information.

psychgirl77-Like I said, I am fairly certain that I will retake the GRE in order to improve my scores, but I will double check if the scores need to be from within two years.

 

[dd123]

hey, BBB, send me a pm with your email address if you want to chat about making contacts.