Non-VA intern programs that offer both neuropsych and non-neuro rotations?

[asukaran]

I am an international student and thus I am not eligible for applying to VA programs. I don't think I will have a competitive number of neuro reports for applying to a neuropsych track either. Btw, what is the average number of neuropsych reports for students who apply for a neuropsych track?

I wonder what are the non-VA, non-neuro intern programs in which people can do nearly half-and-half neuropsych testing and therapy work (e.g., have both neuro and non-neuro rotations)? Places in the Northeastern areas would be ideal. I hope this experience will help me find a future job in which I could do both neuropsych testing and therapy.

Thanks!

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[bcliff]

I am an international student and thus I am not eligible for applying to VA programs. I don't think I will have a competitive number of neuro reports for applying to a neuropsych track either. Btw, what is the average number of neuropsych reports for students who apply for a neuropsych track?

I wonder what are the non-VA, non-neuro intern programs in which people can do nearly half-and-half neuropsych testing and therapy work (e.g., have both neuro and non-neuro rotations)? Places in the Northeastern areas would be ideal. I hope this experience will help me find a future job in which I could do both neuropsych testing and therapy.

Thanks!

IME, 50% neuropsychology experience and 50% non-neuropsychology experience is still pretty standard for a dedicated neuropsychology "track" -- APA still requires a breadth of training experiences at the internship level, so this 50/50 split allows other training requirements to be addressed throughout the training year. 50% training in NP is still consistent with HCG and "major area of study" criteria.

For non "track" students, I've heard of (at most) a minor rotation consisting of around 8h/week or so -- I would imagine that this has a lot to do with the very specific knowledge base required for a career in neuropsychology and faculty's hesitance to have to focus more on foundational, pre-internship skill acquisition rather than more advanced fellowship preparation.

With all of this being said, I would look for internship programs with neuropsychologists on faculty without dedicated neuropsychology tracks. For some reason OHSU comes to mind, but I might be confusing it with the Portland VA...

You could also look into rehabilitation psychology training programs. These will focus more on the interventional side of brain/CNS-behavior relationships, with emphasis on the unique needs of people with disabilities. Assessment of brain-behavior relationships and cognition, more broadly, will likely still be emphasized... I'm not suggesting that RP is "neuropsychology-lite" by any means, but I would hazard a guess that admission into RP internship programs may be less competitive than NP programs. Also, greater interventional experience (relative to your assessment experience) may make you more competitive for these kinds of programs. You can search for these programs on the APPIC directory.

 

[PsychFL91]

Is the goal to eventually do a neuropsych postdoc/become a neuropsychologist? I second the idea that rehab psych internships often have a lot of overlap with neuro and applicants from there are often competitive for neuro postdocs. NYU and Mount Sinai come to mind as two with a good amount of neuro as part of the training. UAB is another internship with lots of neuro without a formal track. If a neuro postdoc is the goal, I’d encourage to still apply to neuro track internships if the largest concern is just your own competitiveness. Maybe applying to neuro track sites in less desirable georgraphic areas since they could be a little less competitive, comparatively.

 

[Sanman]

Some clarifying questions. Are you a non-U.S. citizen applying for internship out of a U.S. grad program or are you at a non-U.S. grad program? What are your career goals? Agreed with the above about HCG guidelines and what is required regarding internship. If you feel that you may not qualify for neuropsychology spots in internship and post-doc, I would look into both rehab psych and geropsychology tracks as they will both have some overlap in experiences. That said, is your goal to practice as a neuropsychologist? Get more assessment experience? A bit more information would help to clarify some of the guidance.

 

[asukaran]

Some clarifying questions. Are you a non-U.S. citizen applying for internship out of a U.S. grad program or are you at a non-U.S. grad program? What are your career goals? Agreed with the above about HCG guidelines and what is required regarding internship. If you feel that you may not qualify for neuropsychology spots in internship and post-doc, I would look into both rehab psych and geropsychology tracks as they will both have some overlap in experiences. That said, is your goal to practice as a neuropsychologist? Get more assessment experience? A bit more information would help to clarify some of the guidance.

Thank you for all your inputs! Just a bit more information about this question: I am in a US grad program. I would like to be a clinical psychologist who could ideally do 1/3-1/2 psych/neuro assessment work and 1/2-2/3 therapy work in the future. Not sure if that's easy to get that flexibility either... So I guess my goal would not be practicing purely as a neuropsychologist who should do more neuro work. Rehab psych programs would be great options! I also wonder if you have any suggestions on other types of non-VA, non-neuro track internship programs, like those in a hospital or a university-affiliated program? Thanks!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Quick response--if you're going to be practicing neuropsychology, then you need to be trained as a neuropsychologist, regardless of how much time you may actually be spending in neuropsychology. So that would then mean an internship with some amount of neuropsych training + two-year neuropsych fellowship. If the plan is instead a more psych assessment-focused practice with some (non-neuropsych) cognitive assessment thrown in here and there, then that training path may not be necessary. It's certainly possible to be a neuropsychologist who also performs therapy, it just may restrict your job options somewhat (e.g., hospital systems hiring a neuropsychologist are likely to want someone who's going to be performing primarily neuropsych assessment, but you may be able to negotiate in some flexibility).

I would just start by searching the APPIC database for all internship with a major neuro focus, manually scratch off the VAs, and go from there. You can also check the AITCN website for a list of its member programs. Those two places are likely to find you the most exhaustive list of neuropsych-focused internships. I personally don't know of many in the northeast with the possibility a neuro focus other than Brown, but I know they're up there.

 

[asukaran]

Thank you! My concern is that I am not in the neuro track of my grad program and thus I may not have sufficient amount of neuro cases/reports by the time when I apply this upcoming year... At the same time I really want to have that flexibility of doing both neuro and therapy work in my future job position. I wonder how many reports that you would recommend for applying for neuro-focused internship and neuro-focused postdoc? Thank you!

 

[asukaran]

Quick response--if you're going to be practicing neuropsychology, then you need to be trained as a neuropsychologist, regardless of how much time you may actually be spending in neuropsychology. So that would then mean an internship with some amount of neuropsych training + two-year neuropsych fellowship. If the plan is instead a more psych assessment-focused practice with some (non-neuropsych) cognitive assessment thrown in here and there, then that training path may not be necessary. It's certainly possible to be a neuropsychologist who also performs therapy, it just may restrict your job options somewhat (e.g., hospital systems hiring a neuropsychologist are likely to want someone who's going to be performing primarily neuropsych assessment, but you may be able to negotiate in some flexibility).

I would just start by searching the APPIC database for all internship with a major neuro focus, manually scratch off the VAs, and go from there. You can also check the AITCN website for a list of its member programs. Those two places are likely to find you the most exhaustive list of neuropsych-focused internships. I personally don't know of many in the northeast with the possibility a neuro focus other than Brown, but I know they're up there.

Thank you! But I still wonder what is the goal of that neuro-rotation in those non-neuro intern programs? I am concerned that I may not be competitive to apply for a neuro intern. I wonder if those neuro-rotations in the therapy intern programs will be sufficient for preparing folks to apply for neuro postdocs? Thanks!

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you! But I still wonder what is the goal of that neuro-rotation in those non-neuro intern programs? I am concerned that I may not be competitive to apply for a neuro intern. I wonder if those neuro-rotations in the therapy intern programs will be sufficient for preparing folks to apply for neuro postdocs? Thanks!

Intern programs are not generally neuro vs non-neuro. While there are definitely some programs which have ra neuro matching track, which trainees do at least 50% neuro assessment, many programs labelled as "generalist" also have the capability of offering major neuro rotations and other experiences which incorporate neuro assessment. Many of these "generalist" programs do a fine job at training at the internship level, particularly for those who have decent neuro experience in grad school.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you! But I still wonder what is the goal of that neuro-rotation in those non-neuro intern programs? I am concerned that I may not be competitive to apply for a neuro intern. I wonder if those neuro-rotations in the therapy intern programs will be sufficient for preparing folks to apply for neuro postdocs? Thanks!

Like WisNeuro said, internship programs aren't all broken down into neuro vs. non-neuro, although there are of course internships that have neuropsych tracks. A lot depends on how much neuropsych experience a person has coming into internship; the more training a person has at their graduate program, the more flexibility they have on internship.

In your case, not being in your program's neuropsych track doesn't remove the possibility of a neuropsych career, it just means you'll need to get more neuropsych experience on internship and fellowship. A more generalist-oriented program can still prepare someone for a neuropsych postdoc, it's just that most of those competitive applicants will have a good bit of neuropsych training from their graduate program. But again, there are exceptions every year.

If you want the flexibility of providing any amount of neuropsychological services in the future, you need to be trained as a neuropsychologist. There's really no (ethical) way around this. I'd recommend you apply broadly to internships that offer significant neuropsych training experiences, including those in less geographically-desirable locations. If you also apply to generalist programs, be sure they allow for some portion of neuropsych training (I'd say, at a minimum, you'd want to be able to complete one full-time/major rotation in neuropsychology out of a three- or four-rotation year). Although understand that if your internship neuropsych training is limited, it's going to make you less competitive for fellowship (assuming your neuropsych training in your graduate program has also been limited).

If you've had limited neuropsych training in graduate school and you attend an internship that provides little to no neuropsychology training, at that point, your ability to secure a neuropsych fellowship (and to competently provide neuropsychological services) will probably be locked out.

 

[summerbabe]

Thank you! My concern is that I am not in the neuro track of my grad program and thus I may not have sufficient amount of neuro cases/reports by the time when I apply this upcoming year... At the same time I really want to have that flexibility of doing both neuro and therapy work in my future job position. I wonder how many reports that you would recommend for applying for neuro-focused internship and neuro-focused postdoc? Thank you!

How are you operationalizing neuro and what exactly do you hope to do that's neuro related in your career?

Some assessments only require general training and competence (ADHD evals, cognitive screening that is more substantial than an MMSE but well below the scope of a full neuropsych eval, psychodiagnostic evals that might include cognitive testing, etc) versus others that really should be done by board certified neuropsychs.

In hospital settings where I've worked, neuropsych 'privileges' go into your credentialing process with certain types of instruments/evaluations limited to neuropsychs. However, lots of general assessment can still happen in rehab, inpatient, gero, and general outpatient settings that don't require a neuropsychologist.

Most neuropsychs just do neuropsych exclusively, especially if they are employed by a hospital, the VA, etc as there are plenty of other psychologists and mid-level options for therapy. Private practice is much broader but there are also plenty of folks out there doing neuropsych who absolutely are not qualified to practice in this fashion but do so anyways.

 

[newlyneuro]

I am curious about this as well. I am currently in a counseling program and had no prior neuro experience coming into my program- mainly health and psychotherapy experience. My program does not have a neuro track but I have taken the neuronanatomy course online with NAN. I did by clinical rotations at two neuro private practice and have some hospital experience with health rehab neuro and counseling. My dissertation is also part neuro. I am applying for internship next year Do you think I have a chance of matching to a neuro internship? I would like to work in a hospital or VA doing both neuro and health. My advisors have been mixed on the feedback they have.

 

[summerbabe]

I did by clinical rotations at two neuro private practice and have some hospital experience with health rehab neuro and counseling. My dissertation is also part neuro. I am applying for internship next year Do you think I have a chance of matching to a neuro internship?

I’m not a neuro person but you might get better advice if you post your stats (# of integrated reports, neuro hours, assessments trained in, etc).

Regardless, there are definitely ‘tiers’ of neuro internships, from well-known programs/tracks that typically produce really strong board certified NPs to sites that can offer substantial neuro training but don’t have as much prestige, more limited didactic opportunities, and/or are in less than desirable locations.

A lot of the latter sites may not have tracks and may be less well known so individuals with more general experience but strong neuro interest can be a great fit.

 

[newlyneuro]

That makes sense. Some stats- 60 integrated reports, 550 intervention hours, 200 assessment hours, 2 neuro private practice clinical rotations (one with children and my current one with adult)- I would like to get boarded in health and neuro both.

 

[WisNeuro]

That makes sense. Some stats- 60 integrated reports, 550 intervention hours, 200 assessment hours, 2 neuro private practice clinical rotations (one with children and my current one with adult)- I would like to get boarded in health and neuro both.

That seems like an awful lot of reports for a relatively low number of assessment hours. What are those intergrated reports based on?

 

[newlyneuro]

Clinical interview and neuro testing.