NonTrad looking to do DIY PostBacc - advice?

[lifesurfeit]

Hi all, graduated 7 years ago with 2.78 BCPM and 2.95 cGPA. I recently started thinking of going back into medicine after working in software for a while. I don't feel fulfilled in my current role and medicine seems more doable now that I've matured. I double majored in Neuroscience and Computer Science in undergrad.

Thinking of doing a DIY postbacc - don't think I need to redo any prereqs as I only got a C in Orgo 2 and C+ in Physics 2, so I will be just doing a bunch of higher level bio classes + biochem.

I have calculated that I only need 8 credits at a 4.0 to get a 3.0, 19 to get a 3.2, 27 to get a 3.3, 37 for a 3.4. I've seen most people recommend 30 credits, but looking to do less if possible so I can apply sooner. How many credits would you recommend?

I am working full time while I am doing this to support myself, deciding between local community college ($1000 for 8 credits) vs local university ($4000 for 8 credits). I have seen mixed advice on whether community college is seen as acceptable or not, but it is much cheaper. I have a somewhat flexible schedule and looks like some of the courses are distance learning now so I can't decide between the two. Which option do you think is better?

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[Bonne Nuit]

Hi all, graduated 7 years ago with 2.78 BCPM and 2.95 cGPA. I recently started thinking of going back into medicine after working in software for a while. I don't feel fulfilled in my current role and medicine seems more doable now that I've matured. I double majored in Neuroscience and Computer Science in undergrad.

Thinking of doing a DIY postbacc - don't think I need to redo any prereqs as I only got a C in Orgo 2 and C+ in Physics 2, so I will be just doing a bunch of higher level bio classes + biochem.

I have calculated that I only need 8 credits at a 4.0 to get a 3.0, 19 to get a 3.2, 27 to get a 3.3, 37 for a 3.4. I've seen most people recommend 30 credits, but looking to do less if possible so I can apply sooner. How many credits would you recommend?

I am working full time while I am doing this to support myself, deciding between local community college ($1000 for 8 credits) vs local university ($4000 for 8 credits). I have seen mixed advice on whether community college is seen as acceptable or not, but it is much cheaper. I have a somewhat flexible schedule and looks like some of the courses are distance learning now so I can't decide between the two. Which option do you think is better?

Before you even think about returning to school, you should first shadow physicians and gain some clinical experience. These activities are required for a medical school application anyway, and it does not make any sense to start spending money on a postbac until you've actually gained some insight into the field of medicine. You need to be able to fully articulate why you're making the switch from CS, and you will inform your decision through your shadowing and clinical activities.

Regarding your DIY postbac: you are starting with a very low GPA, so you need to take as many credits as you can to fully demonstrate academic reinvention. At least 30 credits, maybe more if you can swing it. Even a 3.4 after 37 credits is low for both DO and MD, but several consecutive semesters of a 4.0 (i.e., a stellar upward trend) combined with a strong MCAT will go far in demonstrating your academic competency for medical school. You shouldn't rush any of this if you are serious about medicine.

An alternative would be to take enough DIY postbac classes to get over the 3.0 mark, then apply for 1 or 2 year SMP programs (these often have a minimum 3.0 GPA requirement). If you get into an SMP with a linkage to a medical school, this could be a more efficient route for you.

If you remain on the DIY path, you should know 4-year credits are always preferred, and some medical schools do not accept CC and/or only accept them on a case-by-case basis. I recommend purchasing a subscription to the MSAR right away so you can start researching the requirements of the medical schools in your state/region. CC credits are usually OK for DO schools and some state MD schools, but you still need to check.

Furthermore, online/distance learning coursework is often prohibited by medical schools (again, check the MSAR) with the exception of classes that are forced online due to COVID. Plan on taking all your coursework in person, unless COVID restrictions at your school make this impossible.

Postbac premeds (especially those who require academic reinvention, such as yourself) should not be focusing on getting to medical school as quickly as possible. You need to instead spend these next few years building the best possible application you can through your postbac coursework and excellent ECs. Hope this helps.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

Before you even think about returning to school, you should first shadow physicians and gain some clinical experience. These activities are required for a medical school application anyway, and it does not make any sense to start spending money on a postbac until you've actually gained some insight into the field of medicine. You need to be able to fully articulate why you're making the switch from CS, and you will inform your decision through your shadowing and clinical activities.

Regarding your DIY postbac: you are starting with a very low GPA, so you need to take as many credits as you can to fully demonstrate academic reinvention. At least 30 credits, maybe more if you can swing it. Even a 3.4 after 37 credits is low for both DO and MD, but several consecutive semesters of a 4.0 (i.e., a stellar upward trend) combined with a strong MCAT will go far in demonstrating your academic competency for medical school. You shouldn't rush any of this if you are serious about medicine.

An alternative would be to take enough DIY postbac classes to get over the 3.0 mark, then apply for 1 or 2 year SMP programs (these often have a minimum 3.0 GPA requirement). If you get into an SMP with a linkage to a medical school, this could be a more efficient route for you.

If you remain on the DIY path, you should know 4-year credits are always preferred, and some medical schools do not accept CC and/or only accept them on a case-by-case basis. I recommend purchasing a subscription to the MSAR right away so you can start researching the requirements of the medical schools in your state/region. CC credits are usually OK for DO schools and some state MD schools, but you still need to check.

Furthermore, online/distance learning coursework is often prohibited by medical schools (again, check the MSAR) with the exception of classes that are forced online due to COVID. Plan on taking all your coursework in person, unless COVID restrictions at your school make this impossible.

Postbac premeds (especially those who require academic reinvention, such as yourself) should not be focusing on getting to medical school as quickly as possible. You need to instead spend these next few years building the best possible application you can through your postbac coursework and excellent ECs. Hope this helps.

I'm in a very similar boat and was excited to plan a DIY post-bacc via Harvard's extension School taking upper-div science courses (which is online regardless of covid) to get up to around 3.0 at least, it gives undergraduate credit and is affordable plus actually has upper division courses. I've exhausted all my science courses in undergrad. But do you think that wouldn't work due to its modality?

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I'm in a very similar boat and was excited to plan a DIY post-bacc via Harvard's extension School taking upper-div science courses (which is online regardless of covid) to get up to around 3.0 at least, it gives undergraduate credit and is affordable plus actually has upper division courses. I've exhausted all my science courses in undergrad. But do you think that wouldn't work due to its modality?

If your goal is to be as broadly competitive as possible for medical school, then you need to be taking all your coursework at a 4 year university. 4 year university coursework is accepted and preferred at all medical schools. Not all medical schools accept CC/distance learning, and some only accept this coursework on a "case-by-case" basis (which means its entirely up to their discretion). Some do not accept any distance learning credits at all.

If it is not possible to do your postbac work at a regular 4 year university, then you need to do your research now to see how badly that's going to restrict your future applications. You should purchase a subscription to the Medical School Admissions Requirements database, and it will have information about what MD programs allow in terms of CC/online coursework. There is no MSAR equivalent for DO schools, so you need to check with DO programs individually regarding their prerequisite requirements.

Many schools have been making exceptions for online coursework since spring 2020, but these exceptions are typically only granted if the classes were originally designed to be in-person and were forced online due to COVID restrictions. Many of these exemptions specifically exclude courses that were distance-learning options from the start. Just be aware of this.

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

Not an expert on this at all, but don't many extension school classes count as "regular 4 year university" classes? I am doing a DIY post-bacc at an extension school that is part of a large public university and the science/math credits I'm taking have the same course numbers and credits as the undergraduate courses on the main campus, but the extension courses are offered at times that are more convenient for working people like myself (e.g., evenings/weekends). I haven't heard of people being rejected because they earned credits at an extension school that is part of a 4 year university...?

By the same token, I have heard that CC classes are more frowned upon. But there are people on here, mainly non-trads, who did DIY post-baccs at CC's and got in. I agree that MSAR is really the best resource for this kind of information.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Not an expert on this at all, but don't many extension school classes count as "regular 4 year university" classes? I am doing a DIY post-bacc at an extension school that is part of a large public university and the science/math credits I'm taking have the same course numbers and credits as the undergraduate courses on the main campus, but the extension courses are offered at times that are more convenient for working people like myself (e.g., evenings/weekends). I haven't heard of people being rejected because they earned credits at an extension school that is part of a 4 year university...?

By the same token, I have heard that CC classes are more frowned upon. But there are people on here, mainly non-trads, who did DIY post-baccs at CC's and got in. I agree that MSAR is really the best resource for this kind of information.

Extension school classes are never treated the same as regular 4 year university classes by medical schools, unless the medical schools specifically state that online/extension classes are OK. Online courses, even if they have the same course numbers when you register, are usually noted as being "online" or "extension" versions of the classes somewhere in either the official transcript or the clearinghouse records received by your medical school. The undergraduate institution may consider their online extension classes same as their 4 year university coursework, but medical schools definitely do not - hence why there is an entire category dedicated to this information in a medical school's MSAR profile. If anything, I have found that medical schools treat CC > extension classes, especially for labs, because CC are at least in person. I have never heard of a medical school preferring online extension over CC, and I have never heard of CC being preferred over 4 year.

My own school doesn't have a formal policy (I think we are a "case by case" school in the MSAR, but it's been a minute and I can't remember). Even then, my school discourages lots of online/CC prerequisite coursework when applicants email to ask about it. Applicants who are offered interviews at my school have predominantly 4 year coursework, with the exception of some military applicants. I'm telling you this just to illustrate how a "case by case" scenario might play out at an MD program.

The takeaway is not and has never been that applicants get automatically rejected from every school if they do CC or online prerequisites. Many schools are OK with online or CC, especially if it's just a few courses here and there. The major issue is that a good chunk of schools do not accept these credits at all, and applicants with lots of online/CC prerequisites are then disadvantaged in this already extraordinarily competitive process.

If your only option is online or CC coursework, then you need to purchase the MSAR, email your target schools about their policies, and fully understand how that's going to impact your chances up front.

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

Extension school classes are never treated the same as regular 4 year university classes by medical schools, unless the medical schools specifically state that online/extension classes are OK. Online courses, even if they have the same course numbers when you register, are usually noted as being "online" or "extension" versions of the classes somewhere in either the official transcript or the clearinghouse records received by your medical school. The undergraduate institution may consider their online extension classes same as their 4 year university coursework, but medical schools definitely do not - hence why there is an entire category dedicated to this information in a medical school's MSAR profile. If anything, I have found that medical schools treat CC > extension classes, especially for labs, because CC are at least in person. I have never heard of a medical school preferring online extension over CC, and I have never heard of CC being preferred over 4 year.

My own school doesn't have a formal policy (I think we are a "case by case" school in the MSAR, but it's been a minute and I can't remember). Even then, my school discourages lots of online/CC prerequisite coursework when applicants email to ask about it. Applicants who are offered interviews at my school have predominantly 4 year coursework, with the exception of some military applicants. I'm telling you this just to illustrate how a "case by case" scenario might play out at an MD program.

The takeaway is not and has never been that applicants get automatically rejected from every school if they do CC or online prerequisites. Many schools are OK with online or CC, especially if it's just a few courses here and there. The major issue is that a good chunk of schools do not accept these credits at all, and applicants with lots of online/CC prerequisites are then disadvantaged in this already extraordinarily competitive process.

If your only option is online or CC coursework, then you need to purchase the MSAR, email your target schools about their policies, and fully understand how that's going to impact your chances up front.

Thanks for responding. I was referring to extension schools that are in-person (and might be forced online only due to Covid), not specifically online-only extension schools.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Thanks for responding. I was referring to extension schools that are in-person (and might be forced online only due to Covid), not specifically online-only extension schools.

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying. My school refers to those as "satellite campuses" and they use "extension" to mean distance learning/online-only options associated with a university. Apologies for adding confusion.

I did my entire postbac at a satellite campus and it worked out just fine.

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying. My school refers to those as "satellite campuses" and they use "extension" to mean distance learning/online-only options associated with a university. Apologies for adding confusion.

I did my entire postbac at a satellite campus and it worked out just fine.

So interesting! I haven't heard that lingo before--maybe a regional difference (I'm in California).

 

[Bonne Nuit]

ay

So interesting! I haven't heard that lingo before--maybe a regional difference (I'm in California).

You're right - I totally forgot that UC extension system exists. Not in California, so the coursework that my school categorizes as "distance/extension" are usually the WGU/UNE/Grand Canyon U-type credits, all online, and that's what I thought you were talking about My bad.