Not a vet . . . but I play one on Facebook!

[pooter]

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So, this has kind of been happening since I first started working in clinics, but it's a lot more common now that what I'm doing has become common knowledge . . . How do people here deal with family and/or friends soliciting veterinary advice? I've gotten everything from "Why do Fufu's ears stink?" to "Should Spot get surgery for this foreign body?" and most of the time I'm like 😕

Maybe it's because I didn't spend as much time shadowing as most of you, but I always feel so uncomfortable when someone appoints me the local expert on vet care (especially for an animal I've never laid eyes on). Even if all I say is "You should really talk to your vet about that," I'm always terrified that I'll misjudge and think something isn't a big deal when it's actually emergent, and then whatever happens would be ALL MY FAULT.

Am I crazy?

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

Tell them you don't have a license and are legally not allowed to give any veterinary advice. If they have any concerns about their pet, they need to find someone whose last initials are DVM.

Also, after vet school, you can always tell people that without seeing their pet, you have no idea what is going on (no VCPR).

Just wait - soon you will have people you barely talked to in high school randomly asking you (5+ years after graduation), "Hey, I found a puppy, and I see you're in vet school - any chance you can spay/neuter her/him for free?"

 

[moosenanny]

I had a total stranger email me the other day with tons of details about his pet hawk not doing well, him disagreeing with his DVM's assessment, and him wanting my second opinion (long story short how he got my email address to begin with: a Davis graduate who is a family friend thought I'd know enough as a second year student to give him super-detailed medical advice 😕 She should remember how little she knew second year and realize that this referral was totally inappropriate). Anyway, I emailed him back and politely clarified that I am a veterinary STUDENT and that it is actually illegal for me to provide medical advice. I offered assistance with scheduling an appointment with our exotics animal department, and apologized for not being more helpful. He wrote back saying he totally understood, and hadn't realized I wasn't a vet 🙄 Obviously this situation is different from family and friends constantly bugging you, but I'd say to just be honest and polite and people can't really blame you for not zooming 3+ years into the future!

 

[EllieGirl89]

This is a direct quote that I sent somebody (a friend from high school) who messaged me about her cat's ear infections.

"Hi there 🙂 Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for you...I am not a vet yet and I don't even know what vestibular disease is without looking it up. If the vet says he's alright then he probably is, but if you still think there's something wrong you can always take him somewhere else for a second opinion; most vets don't have any problem with that. Good luck with your kitty."

Here's another one that I sent to a different friend who messaged me about a "wart" on her geriatric dog's foot and if she could just use a human wart remover to take it off. She also mentioned that she didn't want to take the dog to the vet and have a "ridiculously expensive procedure" done.

"Hey lady =) The best advice I can give you is the advice you probably don't want to hear, and that is that you should take your dog to the vet. It's a very simple procedure to remove benign skin tag like things-the vet will examine your dog, sedate it, either snip off the little bugger or remove it with a scalpel, throw in a stitch or two if necessary, and your doggie will be good as new. I've seen it done a zillion times. The problems associated with removing it yourself is are numerous...it might not actually be a wart, it might be something that needs to be biopsied and sent away, human wart removers could be harmful to the dog, physical removal of it without sedation could cause a lot of pain, there's the possibility of extensive bleeding if it's really vascular, and the list goes on. It might cost some money but it's worth it to have somebody who knows what they are doing take care of it. The vast majority of vets aren't the money-hungry greedy wallet-suckers most people like to make them out to be-in fact, most vets grossly UNDERcharge what their time and expertise are worth-I am more and more sensitive to this as I have just recently clicked the little "accept" buttons on my vet school loans-scary stuff! Most vets these days are just barely scraping by. I can recommend a good vet who has very reasonable prices if you like =) Good luck, and I hope all is well with you!"

 

[heylodeb]

This is a direct quote that I sent somebody (a friend from high school) who messaged me about her cat's ear infections.

"Hi there 🙂 Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for you...I am not a vet yet and I don't even know what vestibular disease is without looking it up. If the vet says he's alright then he probably is, but if you still think there's something wrong you can always take him somewhere else for a second opinion; most vets don't have any problem with that. Good luck with your kitty."

Here's another one that I sent to a different friend who messaged me about a "wart" on her geriatric dog's foot and if she could just use a human wart remover to take it off. She also mentioned that she didn't want to take the dog to the vet and have a "ridiculously expensive procedure" done.

"Hey lady =) The best advice I can give you is the advice you probably don't want to hear, and that is that you should take your dog to the vet. It's a very simple procedure to remove benign skin tag like things-the vet will examine your dog, sedate it, either snip off the little bugger or remove it with a scalpel, throw in a stitch or two if necessary, and your doggie will be good as new. I've seen it done a zillion times. The problems associated with removing it yourself is are numerous...it might not actually be a wart, it might be something that needs to be biopsied and sent away, human wart removers could be harmful to the dog, physical removal of it without sedation could cause a lot of pain, there's the possibility of extensive bleeding if it's really vascular, and the list goes on. It might cost some money but it's worth it to have somebody who knows what they are doing take care of it. The vast majority of vets aren't the money-hungry greedy wallet-suckers most people like to make them out to be-in fact, most vets grossly UNDERcharge what their time and expertise are worth-I am more and more sensitive to this as I have just recently clicked the little "accept" buttons on my vet school loans-scary stuff! Most vets these days are just barely scraping by. I can recommend a good vet who has very reasonable prices if you like =) Good luck, and I hope all is well with you!"

👍 Similar to the things that I have responded with. All you can do is say "sorry, no can do" - they can't blame you for that!

 

[HelloNello]

Ugh I totally get this all the time and I feel so uncomfortable. I've had everything from "why does my cat meow so much" to "my dog ate rat poison this morning..is that bad?" Usually I stand there looking like this: 😱 and then I usually tell them to go talk to a licensed vet...then if they don't go away and keep asking for medical advice I shoot them one of these babies

It usually works...try it sometime 😉

 

[scb44f]

Ugh I totally get this all the time and I feel so uncomfortable. I've had everything from "why does my cat meow so much" to "my dog ate rat poison this morning..is that bad?" Usually I stand there looking like this: 😱 and then I usually tell them to go talk to a licensed vet...then if they don't go away and keep asking for medical advice I shoot them one of these babies

It usually works...try it sometime 😉

Works every time....

Anyway, it is uncomfortable, but I generally hear it from my future mother in law (who asks my fiancé for medical advise even though he's an M2). He and I generally stick with, "It could be a number of things from X, Y to Z, and since I'm not a doctor/vet yet, I can't tell you anything else besides you should go to a doctor/vet and have it checked out." It is nice they show trust in us, but it's not our job yet to diagnose or suggest treatment, so we have gotten pretty good at referring them to the experts (these requests come from all over his family, and has happened once from my side lol).

 

[Psorophoraferox]

... I shoot them one of these babies

Yep, I just throw 'em the face.

I stick with stuff along the lines already said. This is one reason I try not to wear my work uniform out. Inevitably I get a "So my dog's been scooting. Is that worms?", and then I find myself discussing anal glands with the lady making my Subway sandwich.

 

[nordicat]

Best I've gotten so far is, " Why is my dog humping everything?" !!

ETA: or when clients assume that, because I'm a receptionist at the vet's office, I can interpret their pet's bloodwork.

 

[Minnerbelle]

If someone I care about approaches me and asks me questions about certain conditions or how certain drugs work, I tend to explain to the best of my abilities if it's something I've already covered in school. This is in cases where they're working with a vet and are trying to be compliant owners, but wants to understand a bit more about what's going on.

However, when someone asks me advice about an individual animal and what should/shouldn't be done, I bust out my secret weapon, which is the line, "You sure you want my input instead of your vet's? I'm so clueless I get tested on simple, classic manifestations of very common diseases with test results and everything handed to me on a piece of paper, and I get it wrong half the time. And that's just the diagnosis part. We haven't learned much at all about how you actually treat anything." Usually, that shuts them up real fast.

 

[twelvetigers]

Ugh I totally get this all the time and I feel so uncomfortable. I've had everything from "why does my cat meow so much" to "my dog ate rat poison this morning..is that bad?" Usually I stand there looking like this: 😱 and then I usually tell them to go talk to a licensed vet...then if they don't go away and keep asking for medical advice I shoot them one of these babies

It usually works...try it sometime 😉

I love her! She cracks me the eff up. I did her boob trick earlier this week just for giggles - it works but it sure is uncomfortable. I like her "how dudes drive in the car" video. 🙂

 

[PetPony]

Is that Jenna Marbles? Or however you spell her name.. haha I LOVE HER. So many awesome videos!

 

[twelvetigers]

Yes! She cracks me up!

 

[T_Rose]

I do have people that try and ask me for advice, but I feel like I'm mostly in the opposite situation here. I keep trying to convince my mom to take her animals to the vet. She won't listen to anything I say. Our one dog had a lot of brown stuff in his ears, so I just got a sample and took it in. Turns out he did have a yeast infection. Luckily, she will take the pets in if it's an emergency such as when the cat was run over, but she asks me how much it costs for a euthanasia at the first signs of old age. 😡

 

[Dsmoody23]

Tell them you don't have a license and are legally not allowed to give any veterinary advice. If they have any concerns about their pet, they need to find someone whose last initials are DVM.

Also, after vet school, you can always tell people that without seeing their pet, you have no idea what is going on (no VCPR).

Just wait - soon you will have people you barely talked to in high school randomly asking you (5+ years after graduation), "Hey, I found a puppy, and I see you're in vet school - any chance you can spay/neuter her/him for free?"

I'm calling shenanigans on this thread.

There are 19 year old receptionists at my practice, with high school diplomas, who are tasked daily with doing exactly what the OP is referring to. If an acquaintance asks "Why do Fufu's ears stink?," as per the original post, it's neither illegal or unethical to discuss the common causes of ear infections with them.

You're not diagnosing anything. You're not offering medical advice. You're sharing information gained through experience to shed additional light on their problem. "Should spot get surgery for this foreign body?" If he ate a mattress and it didn't come out, yeah... you should probably keep an open mind about surgery.

Office staff and nurses, in both human and vet med, field questions like the ones described above every single day. If you truly feel that "any concerns about a pet" should be immediately referred to "someone whose last initials are DVM," then you should probably fire your staff and pipe those incoming calls right to your desk.

 

[femmedusiecle]

I'm calling shenanigans on this thread.

There are 19 year old receptionists at my practice, with high school diplomas, who are tasked daily with doing exactly what the OP is referring to. If an acquaintance asks "Why do Fufu's ears stink?," as per the original post, it's neither illegal or unethical to discuss the common causes of ear infections with them.

You're not diagnosing anything. You're not offering medical advice. You're sharing information gained through experience to shed additional light on their problem. "Should spot get surgery for this foreign body?" If he ate a mattress and it didn't come out, yeah... you should probably keep an open mind about surgery.

Office staff and nurses, in both human and vet med, field questions like the ones described above every single day. If you truly feel that "any concerns about a pet" should be immediately referred to "someone whose last initials are DVM," then you should probably fire your staff and pipe those incoming calls right to your desk.

Haha, yea I agree. I mean, it's not like you're telling them what meds they should be taking, to go against the advice/orders of their DVM or even telling them how to treat their pets by themselves. It's just general information and some basic education, which I believe clients NEED. They need to know the value of veterinary visits and veterinary care.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I'm calling shenanigans on this thread.

There are 19 year old receptionists at my practice, with high school diplomas, who are tasked daily with doing exactly what the OP is referring to. If an acquaintance asks "Why do Fufu's ears stink?," as per the original post, it's neither illegal or unethical to discuss the common causes of ear infections with them.

You're not diagnosing anything. You're not offering medical advice. You're sharing information gained through experience to shed additional light on their problem. "Should spot get surgery for this foreign body?" If he ate a mattress and it didn't come out, yeah... you should probably keep an open mind about surgery.

Office staff and nurses, in both human and vet med, field questions like the ones described above every single day. If you truly feel that "any concerns about a pet" should be immediately referred to "someone whose last initials are DVM," then you should probably fire your staff and pipe those incoming calls right to your desk.

I don't disagree with you in general. It's not like you can't give people advice as a non-professional....it happened to me long before vet school, just because I seem like a guy who knows things..

BUT, and this is a smaller but in vet med, but still.... When you are sitting in the vet's office as a non-vet employee, you are covered for malpractice under the vet's policy. If something you say causes a problem, you are not liable. But outside the office, as a normal person... you are liable.

Malpractice is not a big deal in vet med, but there are sometimes big awards... i.e. the dog wasn't sick but had a behavioral problem and bit a kid (big award), or the kid got sick from the dog (not likely but big award), or the kid was so traumatized over fluffy's death that he is catatonic now (really big award). So, just be careful there are no unexpected repercussions possible... because there is a slice of America that is just looking for the lottery legal case. And if you are in vet school you must be "rich" right?

 

[jmo1012]

rant about parents asking for advice...and completely ignoring!!!! that was my entire winter break! still wondering how they managed to get nutrition degrees in the 4 months i was gone

 

[that redhead]

The only person I give "advice" to is my sister - because she calls me about everything. She knows I'm not a vet, she knows that my knowledge is limited but she also knows I spent a lot of time working at various places, including a small animal clinic, and can give her a good idea of emergency/okay to wait, cost, procedure, etc. Plus she isn't one of those people trying to dodge the vet and the associated costs, so it isn't like my advice takes precedence over the vet's.

 

[Dsmoody23]

I don't disagree with you in general. It's not like you can't give people advice as a non-professional....it happened to me long before vet school, just because I seem like a guy who knows things..

BUT, and this is a smaller but in vet med, but still.... When you are sitting in the vet's office as a non-vet employee, you are covered for malpractice under the vet's policy. If something you say causes a problem, you are not liable. But outside the office, as a normal person... you are liable.

Malpractice is not a big deal in vet med, but there are sometimes big awards... i.e. the dog wasn't sick but had a behavioral problem and bit a kid (big award), or the kid got sick from the dog (not likely but big award), or the kid was so traumatized over fluffy's death that he is catatonic now (really big award). So, just be careful there are no unexpected repercussions possible... because there is a slice of America that is just looking for the lottery legal case. And if you are in vet school you must be "rich" right?

I'm sure you guys have legal classes covering this, and I'm not a lawyer either.

But the main criteria for malpractice is a doctor-patient relationship. In any of these examples, you're not a doctor (or staff of one), and you haven't established that relationship.

If a non-professional could be sued for medical malpractice, outside of a practice, the internet message boards would be a litigation goldmine.

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

I'm sure you guys have legal classes covering this, and I'm not a lawyer either.

But the main criteria for malpractice is a doctor-patient relationship. In any of these examples, you're not a doctor (or staff of one), and you haven't established that relationship.

If a non-professional could be sued for medical malpractice, outside of a practice, the internet message boards would be a litigation goldmine.

We do have legal/jurisprudence classes in vet school to cover these sorts of things.

Call "shenanigans" on me if you want, but if a friend asks if their dog needs surgery for a possible foreign body, you are in no position to give advice without a license. I will agree, otitis is another story altogether, but I understood the OP's original post as, "I am uncomfortable giving veterinary advice as a vet student, how do I explain this to my friends and family?" Not having a license is a perfectly good reason not to give veterinary advice, and in this situation, it is an easy out.

While you can't be accused of malpractice without being a veterinarian, you can be criminally charged for practicing veterinary medicine without a license, which is a misdemeanor in some states and a felony in others. You are also open to civil lawsuits if something happens, which could at least cover replacement costs of an animal and your out-of-pocket court/legal expenses and time.

Consider this example: A friend asks you if it's okay if she gives her cat some laxative because it has been straining, and she thinks it is constipated. She has some CatLax from a previous cat's constipation issues. You say sure, it's probably okay to give some CatLax wait it out, and you know cats can get megacolon and have chronic constipation. Twelve hours later, the cat dies because your friend thought it was constipated, but instead, it had a urinary tract obstruction. Your "friend" could easily sue you for property damages and file charges for practicing without a license, and depending on the whim of the judge and how opportunistic your friend's lawyer is, emotional damages as well.

 

[Dsmoody23]

We do have legal/jurisprudence classes in vet school to cover these sorts of things.

Call "shenanigans" on me if you want, but if a friend asks if their dog needs surgery for a possible foreign body, you are in no position to give advice without a license. I will agree, otitis is another story altogether, but I understood the OP's original post as, "I am uncomfortable giving veterinary advice as a vet student, how do I explain this to my friends and family?" Not having a license is a perfectly good reason not to give veterinary advice, and in this situation, it is an easy out.

In what respect is otitis different? It's a common knowledge 'medical' question, in either circumstance.

While you can't be accused of malpractice without being a veterinarian, you can be criminally charged for practicing veterinary medicine without a license, which is a misdemeanor in some states and a felony in others. You are also open to civil lawsuits if something happens, which could at least cover replacement costs of an animal and your out-of-pocket court/legal expenses and time.

Nobody is talking about practicing. I'm not diagnosing Fluffy's ear infection. I'm not writing a fake prescription for the owner to take to the pharmacy. And I'm not banging out foreign body surgery on my kitchen counter.

We're talking about information exchange, outside of the doctor patient relationship. And that has absolutely no legal ramifications.

Consider this example: A friend asks you if it's okay if she gives her cat some laxative because it has been straining, and she thinks it is constipated. She has some CatLax from a previous cat's constipation issues. You say sure, it's probably okay to give some CatLax wait it out, and you know cats can get megacolon and have chronic constipation. Twelve hours later, the cat dies because your friend thought it was constipated, but instead, it had a urinary tract obstruction. Your "friend" could easily sue you for property damages and file charges for practicing without a license, and depending on the whim of the judge and how opportunistic your friend's lawyer is, emotional damages as well.

I'd be curious to see documentation of a case in which this course of events, or one similar, occurred.

If my friend has a headache, and I tell them to take an aspirin, I'm not practicing medicine without a license, nor am I legally responsible if it turns out they have a brain tumor.

 

[lostbunny]

Even tho I have a lot of vet experience, my sister still sees me as her baby sister that doesn't know anything besides my ABCs. She called me once saying her puppy woke up with a swollen face, what should she give him/what could it be. I asked about vaccines and told her to bring it to a vet b/c it could be anything...and facial swelling could lead to neck swelling and thus not being able to breathe...and only a vet can diagnose proper dosages of benadryl/anti histamines, anyways she decided it was better to consult her 'dog guru' friend who watches a lot of cesar milan...

the dog was okay in the end but I guess the moral is you just treat them like a client (i.e. like everyone else has said... tell them you can't diagnose over the phone, let alone because you're not a vet, etc etc), and they'll either take your advice or leave it. In the end, you saying "Oh, 9lb toy poodle dog ate 50lbs of dark chocolate? You really need to take her to the vet its an emergency!", and they decide to wait until the next day- and she dies- thats NOT your fault!!! Thats the irresponsible owners fault!!!