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futurepharmd1984

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I have a situation and need someone who knows or has been through it. I am leaving IL to go to school in TN. My husband and our daughter are staying behind for her final senior year of high school. We have a mortgage and lots of debt plus car payments, utilities, etc. I am losing my entire income and GradPlus + his income is not going to cut covering my costs in TN and help with our outstanding monthly payments in IL. I was wondering if anyone went through this and if you can get a personal student loan on top of GradPlus or if its one or the other. I just need people to advise what they have done to make it work. I can't sell my house because they all need to live in there. Please assist. I did get approved for an additional 15k from Discover student loans but considering the COA and all that I am not sure they will give me that money since everything is covered by Unsub + GradPlus.
Thank You in advance
 

Gombrich12

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Can you back out of school for this year and reapply next year? The seat will still be there guaranteed since schools are hurting for students and TN has like 6 or more schools now.
 
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spacecowgirl

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Not what you want to hear: don't do it. YOu have a lot of debt already. The job market sucks. This must be a second career for you as you have a HS senior daughter. Why are you going back to school in the first place and are you going to a new pharmacy school?
 
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futurepharmd1984

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.
 

gwarm01

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Do you qualify for in-state tuition in TN? How does the tuition compare to IL? With a senior in high school, I would strongly consider waiting another year when you have more flexibility. Waiting one more year might be the financially sound move rather than saddling yourself with more debt.
 
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PharmtoCS

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.

Sounds just like pharmacy: a profession that sucks with no job security and falling pay. You’ll most likely end right up in a dead end job except with $200k+ more in loans and 4+ years wasted.
 
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steveysmith54

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All I can recommend is to assess the job availability and market for pharmacists in the areas where you want to live in the future. It sounds like you’re choosing pharmacy to escape your current job/profession, but don’t have much if any grasp about the state of Jobs in pharmacy. Schools are having trouble filling seats right now. I am assuming you’re in your mid 40’s? By the time you graduate, let’s say 50, you’re going to be Over your head in loans and I just don’t know if there are jobs and compensation there to get you out of the debt that you accumulate. I am giving general opinion and advice, but rethink this decision and do additional research pertaining to job availability
 
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Pharmacy is a Scam

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Sounds just like pharmacy: a profession that sucks with no job security and falling pay. You’ll most likely end right up in a dead end job except with $200k+ more in loans and 4+ years wasted.
Beat me to it. Pharmacy might be the profession with the least amount of job security right now, and this is a great example of how the general perception that “becoming a pharmacist opens up a lot of doors” has not kept up with what the job market actually looks like.

There is often the comparison of pharmacy school to be law school 2.0 but becoming a pharmacist is actually much worse than becoming a lawyer. This is because with a JD you can (obviously) become a lawyer, and while lawyer jobs have dried up you can still get “mid-level” jobs as paralegals. However, once you become a pharmacist, your skill set becomes so linear that there is no translatable “mid-level” job you can apply for if and when you can’t find a job as a pharmacist. So while a law student can still change their plans from working as a lawyer to working for a lawyer, a pharmacy student must change their plans from working as a pharmacist to working in something completely unrelated such as being a pizza delivery boy if they can’t find a job.
 
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Saiyo

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Sounds just like pharmacy: a profession that sucks with no job security and falling pay. You’ll most likely end right up in a dead end job except with $200k+ more in loans and 4+ years wasted.

At that point, even if you take home $2k more a month than a tech does a month, wouldn't it take more than 10 years to start reaping the financial benefit of being a pharmacist over a tech? Ouch
 

Mambo#5

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.
Um...... being a pharmacist is not the way to go. It’s exactly what you just described.
 
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beautifulrobot

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Beat me to it. Pharmacy might be the profession with the least amount of job security right now, and this is a great example of how the general perception that “becoming a pharmacist opens up a lot of doors” has not kept up with what the job market actually looks like.

There is often the comparison of pharmacy school to be law school 2.0 but becoming a pharmacist is actually much worse than becoming a lawyer. This is because with a JD you can (obviously) become a lawyer, and while lawyer jobs have dried up you can still get “mid-level” jobs as paralegals. However, once you become a pharmacist, your skill set becomes so linear that there is no translatable “mid-level” job you can apply for if and when you can’t find a job as a pharmacist. So while a law student can still change their plans from working as a lawyer to working for a lawyer, a pharmacy student must change their plans from working as a pharmacist to working in something completely unrelated such as being a pizza delivery boy if they can’t find a job.

With some creativity you can find other "mid-level" jobs applicable to pharmacists' skill set - teaching science courses in high school or community college, doing drug manufacturer inspections for the FDA, entry-level work for a pbm or health insurance company, editor/writer for a medical media company, etc.
 
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Timbo

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I have a situation and need someone who knows or has been through it. I am leaving IL to go to school in TN. My husband and our daughter are staying behind for her final senior year of high school. We have a mortgage and lots of debt plus car payments, utilities, etc. I am losing my entire income and GradPlus + his income is not going to cut covering my costs in TN and help with our outstanding monthly payments in IL. I was wondering if anyone went through this and if you can get a personal student loan on top of GradPlus or if its one or the other. I just need people to advise what they have done to make it work. I can't sell my house because they all need to live in there. Please assist. I did get approved for an additional 15k from Discover student loans but considering the COA and all that I am not sure they will give me that money since everything is covered by Unsub + GradPlus.
Thank You in advance
Yikes! Is your plan to live forever in debt? How much is the cost of fees+tuition for your school for the entire 4 years? How much income are you going to lose during this time due to not working and being in school? I had a friend who had to take out private loans for pharmacy school too, but personally I would never do that. I ended up with ~150k in debt and am still paying off my loans 3 years later, still living like a broke college student. I can't imagine being in a situation like you where you would have a mortgage and a child in addition to everything. And I'm still making $120k/year too... When pharmacist salaries drop to below $80k soon I don't know how you're going to manage.

With some creativity you can find other "mid-level" jobs applicable to pharmacists' skill set - teaching science courses in high school or community college, doing drug manufacturer inspections for the FDA, entry-level work for a pbm or health insurance company, editor/writer for a medical media company, etc.
Can't you already get those jobs with just your bachelor's degree? Why get a doctorate and waste 4 years and $200k
 
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mentos

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This sounds like financial suicide, sorry OP. Most people are getting through pharmacy school without any gradplus loans (which are a horrible interest rate) and it still isn't worth it. You have maxed out gradplus loans and you need even more? I don't see how you can ever pay off this debt at your age. Rph starting salary took a 20% cut this year and it will only go down from there. There have not been any raises or bonuses for years so inflation is just eating us away. That is a dead end job.
 
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Modest_anteater

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I have a situation and need someone who knows or has been through it. I am leaving IL to go to school in TN. My husband and our daughter are staying behind for her final senior year of high school. We have a mortgage and lots of debt plus car payments, utilities, etc. I am losing my entire income and GradPlus + his income is not going to cut covering my costs in TN and help with our outstanding monthly payments in IL. I was wondering if anyone went through this and if you can get a personal student loan on top of GradPlus or if its one or the other. I just need people to advise what they have done to make it work. I can't sell my house because they all need to live in there. Please assist. I did get approved for an additional 15k from Discover student loans but considering the COA and all that I am not sure they will give me that money since everything is covered by Unsub + GradPlus.
Thank You in advance

Holy cow. There is no reason you should be needing money ON TOP of gradplus.... Gradplus is already by definition a loan of LAST RESORT. Like you need to downsize and sell the house and rent a trailer or live in a RV. Sell your vehicales and buy a used car off craigslist for 200-400 or even better use a bicycle or walk. You can walk 5 miles an hour which is actually pretty fast. You are living WELL BEYOND your means if you need to take out a massive loan on a already significant MAXED OUT gradplus loan. Holy cow i just can't believe a person can be this irresponsible.

But to answer your question. Yes you can get a private loan. But it won't be easy. Banks are intelligent. They will require a COSIGN by a family member that has significant assets like real estate or vehicles. This mean that whoever you sucker into cosigning will likely loose their home and become homeless due to your extremely poor financial literacy.

You should take another 2 years off and save up money first.

You should be ashamed of yourself and embarrassed for being so greedy and unable to live within your means.
 
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Wickett

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I won't berate you for considering this route like others already have, but I highly suggest taking a different approach than where you seem to be heading. Especially considering your age (assuming 40+), I would try my best to do it with limited to no loans. I know nothing of your personal finances and husband's income/work situation, but it would be much smarter to wait until your daughter is done with school. Once she graduates, sell off the house, eliminate any car payments (downgrade cars and/or sell off excess vehicles), clear out preexisting debts from the money gained through selling the IL house, rent a tiny crappy apt near the program of your choice and have your husband pay for the school as you go or at the very least as much as you possibly can out of pocket. If his income doesn't allow for paying school tuition as it comes up, try to have him cover living expenses.

At the BARE MINIMUM, clear out all the excess existing debt you state you already have and limit any total student loan load to around 75k or less once you complete the program. If you can't do this or are unwilling to do this, you are setting yourself up for financial disaster. If you jump into a pharm program with "lots of debt" PLUS maxing out gradplus loans, you will never be able to retire and be burdened by debt into your latter years. If you are unable or unwilling to sell your house and have your husband follow you, go to a program within your state and try to avoid paying for dual living arrangements. If you won't sell the house and/or can't get into a local program, I really would pursue something else. Just my two cents with the limited info I have at hand.
 
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Twentytwelve2

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loan is so hard to pay off because of the interest each month and less than half my income goes to taxes.... sigh
 

mentos

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OP if you really decide to continue (I highly recommend not doing this) then you have to do as others have suggested: sell your house, sell your cars, pay off all debt and use the equity towards debt and rent. You say you "can't" sell your house but the truth is you don't *want* to sell your house. You can rent a cheap apartment. You have no business having a car payment with the amount of debt you say you have. Get rid of the cars, buy a beater Crown Vic or 1990s Honda/Toyota for $1-2,000 cash.

Please don't tell us you're upside down on your mortgage, if you are then we really can't help you.
 
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Xenophylia

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Might be tough to hear, but investing in a pharmacy education now is like just throwing that money away. Do something else where you will eventually wind up in a better situation than you are now. Pharmacy currently has 0 return on investment. Unless your dream is to be treated like dirt on a daily basis and live in debt forever. If that sounds appealing then pharmacy is right for you...
 
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WVUPharm2007

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Some tough truth bombs being let off in here.

At least pursue physicians' assistant school. Still a bit of growth possible there. Until it gets saturated, too.
 
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percyeye

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Can you get into PA school? Shorter amount of school and the job market is huge.
 
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spacecowgirl

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.
First - your identity is not your career or degree. You have already made something of yourself, going deeply into debt at this point in your life will not help. The other posters are right - the only way you should do this is selling everything, moving your family, etc. Anything else is financial ruin. Most of us did all of this when we didn't have families or a mortgage and that was hard enough. This is impossible. The only way it would make any sense is if you took on no additional debt at all. Cash out all retirement, sell the house, etc.

This is a huge, huge mistake. I'm sorry if this is your passion and you wished you had done it earlier but the way the market is right now, you'd be much better off realizing that path is closed, but there are others you might be ignoring because pharmacy has been a big focus for the last at least 2 years (since you deferred once). It sounds like you want to do this to make your life better, which is always commendable but truly this will make your life worse. You'll face lack of job security, falling wages, very stressful work and you'll be paying those loans off forever.

I'm pleading with you Internet Stranger to reconsider this. I know the salary looks appealing but things are dire now and won't be better in 4 years. Interest rates are crazy high, you already have debt. Do not underestimate the compound interest of all these loans you are considering - it's not like a mortgage, you can't live in it, you can't sell it. Send me a PM if you want to discuss further. I am also a mom and I'm a little older.
 
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Pharmacy is a Scam

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First - your identity is not your career or degree. You have already made something of yourself, going deeply into debt at this point in your life will not help. The other posters are right - the only way you should do this is selling everything, moving your family, etc. Anything else is financial ruin. Most of us did all of this when we didn't have families or a mortgage and that was hard enough. This is impossible. The only way it would make any sense is if you took on no additional debt at all. Cash out all retirement, sell the house, etc.

This is a huge, huge mistake. I'm sorry if this is your passion and you wished you had done it earlier but the way the market is right now, you'd be much better off realizing that path is closed, but there are others you might be ignoring because pharmacy has been a big focus for the last at least 2 years (since you deferred once). It sounds like you want to do this to make your life better, which is always commendable but truly this will make your life worse. You'll face lack of job security, falling wages, very stressful work and you'll be paying those loans off forever.

I'm pleading with you Internet Stranger to reconsider this. I know the salary looks appealing but things are dire now and won't be better in 4 years. Interest rates are crazy high, you already have debt. Do not underestimate the compound interest of all these loans you are considering - it's not like a mortgage, you can't live in it, you can't sell it. Send me a PM if you want to discuss further. I am also a mom and I'm a little older.
To reiterate the point, a “lack of job security” might be understating it. The main issue isn’t one where you are constantly working in fear of getting laid off, but rather the issue is that many pharmacists (especially new grads and old-timers) cannot find a job to begin with and when they’re displaced from their current roles so it doesn’t matter if a pharmacist job pays $200k, $500k or $1M when there are just no jobs to apply for.

So if you’re going into pharmacy for the appeal of “salary” then you’re being shortsighted because it’s not about the salary but the number of jobs available (which unfortunately, both are dropping at an exponentially fast clip).
 
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OmiPharmD

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.
I urge you to join Pharmacist moms group on fb. There are older pharmacists reporting hours getting cut or getting laid off all the time. The stories are sobering.

Also floating with either 24 or 32 guaranteed hours looks to be the norm while starting salaries continue to decline.

Inpatient where I am we no longer hire all of our residents each year and it's rare to have a need to hire from outside (3rd shift basically is the only time due to lack of internal interest). I can't imagine how bad it will be in 4 more years.
 
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owlegrad

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I really don't want to pile on but I have to agree with the advice about looking elsewhere. Everywhere you look pharmacy is getting tighter and tighter - I don't know what it will be like in 4 years but I doubt it will be better. You will regret this.

Have you looked into PA?
 
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mentos

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May I also suggest dental hygienist, according to Google average salary is $36/hr which is probably close to what pharmacists will make by the time you finish pharm school.

Here is a school in Tennessee which you can even do online! Tuittion is super cheap around 8-9k per year


I would definitely choose this instead of pharmacy if I were in your shoes.
 
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sakigt

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x2, Pharmacists mom group on fb. People getting fired for stupid reasons all the time, the most recent today.

God forbid you realize your "passion" is hospital and you spend another 2 years getting PGY2 to work in a hospital checking the batch.... *shudder*
 
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spacecowgirl

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x2, Pharmacists mom group on fb. People getting fired for stupid reasons all the time, the most recent today.
I saw that! WTF? Poor lady. I used to think there were always 2 sides but now I wonder.
 

OmiPharmD

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I saw that! WTF? Poor lady. I used to think there were always 2 sides but now I wonder.
Same and I agree about 2 sides. We've all worked with lousy pharmacists. BUT this happens so frequently now.

I loved the video in the comments where she burned her lab coat. I would also like her to design MY backyard. Beautiful.
 

OmiPharmD

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What happened? I’m not a mom so I can’t join the group...
For the non moms.
20190530_180005.jpeg
 
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alpha12

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I have a situation and need someone who knows or has been through it. I am leaving IL to go to school in TN. My husband and our daughter are staying behind for her final senior year of high school. We have a mortgage and lots of debt plus car payments, utilities, etc. I am losing my entire income and GradPlus + his income is not going to cut covering my costs in TN and help with our outstanding monthly payments in IL. I was wondering if anyone went through this and if you can get a personal student loan on top of GradPlus or if its one or the other. I just need people to advise what they have done to make it work. I can't sell my house because they all need to live in there. Please assist. I did get approved for an additional 15k from Discover student loans but considering the COA and all that I am not sure they will give me that money since everything is covered by Unsub + GradPlus.
Thank You in advance
Well if you daughter is a senior in high school I am guessing you are your 40s or 50s. Why even go to pharm school now? How many years will you even be able to work as a pharmacist after you are done?
 
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thecodeofsilence

Feb 17, 2019, 6:38 AM
OMG in my area (Philly metro) they used to tell pharmacists “if you leave I don’t care, I’ll have 10 applicants for your job before you hit the parking lot. People WANT to work for CVS.”
In these times, they’re exactly right. More people need jobs to pay off their massive student loan debt, even if it means selling their souls.
From Reddit.
 
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mentos

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thecodeofsilence

Feb 17, 2019, 6:38 AM
OMG in my area (Philly metro) they used to tell pharmacists “if you leave I don’t care, I’ll have 10 applicants for your job before you hit the parking lot. People WANT to work for CVS.”
In these times, they’re exactly right. More people need jobs to pay off their massive student loan debt, even if it means selling their souls.
From Reddit.

It is true. Local outpatient pharmacy gets 400+ applicants per listing, no joke.
 
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mentos

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Very curious what happened. If she was terminated for following company policy then wouldn't that be an easily winnable lawsuit? Cha-ching

It's never easy against big corporations. They have a dream team of corrupt lawyers and drag it out as long as possible until the little guy can't afford the legal fees and gives up.
 
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projektreverb

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Well I’m glad OP was counseled right. What’s the story of this mom pharmacist who was fired for those of us not in the FB group, do share.
 

mentos

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OP has disappearred, guess we'll never hear from her again.
 
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gwarm01

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I am sure she wasnt expecting all this lol. but at least she cant say she wasnt warned
Meanwhile, the non-pharmacists in her life are probably going to say follow your dreams and don't listen to the haters.
 
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sakigt

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Dreams have high interest rates
 
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BidingMyTime

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My first career sucks, no security, pay isnt great. Just like everyone that has dead end jobs, trying to secure my future. Going back to school to make something of myself.

Whatever you are making at your current job, it is ALOT more than than taking on a huge amount of debt. You sound like a gambler, you could just spend $10 on lottery tickets each week, you will still be money ahead.

May I also suggest dental hygienist, according to Google average salary is $36/hr which is probably close to what pharmacists will make by the time you finish pharm school. I would definitely choose this instead of pharmacy if I were in your shoes.

Dental Hygiene schools is pretty tough to get into, unlike pharmacy where anyone who is eligible for massive loans can get into. Speaking generally, there are probably many people in pharmacy school (the ones who ultimately end up not being able to pass their NAPLEX) who don't come close to have the test scores/grades to get into dental hygeine school.
 
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mentos

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Whatever you are making at your current job, it is ALOT more than than taking on a huge amount of debt. You sound like a gambler, you could just spend $10 on lottery tickets each week, you will still be money ahead.



Dental Hygiene schools is pretty tough to get into, unlike pharmacy where anyone who is eligible for massive loans can get into. Speaking generally, there are probably many people in pharmacy school (the ones who ultimately end up not being able to pass their NAPLEX) who don't come close to have the test scores/grades to get into dental hygeine school.

What about those associate degrees for dental hygienist?
 
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D

deleted480308

I have a situation and need someone who knows or has been through it. I am leaving IL to go to school in TN. My husband and our daughter are staying behind for her final senior year of high school. We have a mortgage and lots of debt plus car payments, utilities, etc. I am losing my entire income and GradPlus + his income is not going to cut covering my costs in TN and help with our outstanding monthly payments in IL. I was wondering if anyone went through this and if you can get a personal student loan on top of GradPlus or if its one or the other. I just need people to advise what they have done to make it work. I can't sell my house because they all need to live in there. Please assist. I did get approved for an additional 15k from Discover student loans but considering the COA and all that I am not sure they will give me that money since everything is covered by Unsub + GradPlus.
Thank You in advance
Them moving with you is the best financial answer
 
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BidingMyTime

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What about those associate degrees for dental hygienist?

That is the associate degrees that I'm talking about. The programs I'm familiar with have very limited enrollment and far more applicants then spots.
 
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