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What happens if one does not apply to enough transitional programs and does nt match but matches in radiology. is there a scamble for transitional years?
thanks
thanks
Not matching for TY
- Thread starter tekram
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There's a scramble for all unfilled spots -- Rads, Transitional, Plastics (ha!), Derm, etc. But your odds of matching into competitive spot is -- what -- 20 times greater through the regular match than through the scramble?
Have some prelim programs as back-ups to your TYs.
If you still don't match, you *might* be able to scramble into a TY -- esp. if you're willing to go anywhere -- but more likely you'd end up scrambling into a prelim year -- maybe prelim surgery.
Have some prelim programs as back-ups to your TYs.
If you still don't match, you *might* be able to scramble into a TY -- esp. if you're willing to go anywhere -- but more likely you'd end up scrambling into a prelim year -- maybe prelim surgery.
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Would anyone care to clarify how the whole TY/prelim matching process works? We've had multiple guests talk to our class about the match "in general" and we've had a couple of radiologists give advice to our interest group on how to be a competitive applicant, what the residency is like, how to decide if that's what you want to do, etc... but nothing specific on how the radiology match actually works.
I've looked at a few radiology residency programs I'd be interested in, and it doesn't look like any of them have integrated prelim years. But when I look at the current residents in the program, most did their prelim year at that program/university/hospital.
Is it a separate match altogether? If so, are there a lot of specialties competing for these first year spots? Or is it somehow combined into one match, with radiology program rankings followed by prelim programs or something? And what is the difference between a prelim year and a transitional year? Does each radiology program have a different requirement for that first year, or is it pretty much standardized? What is the best way to make sure you do your first year at least in the same city as your radiology training?
I've looked at a few radiology residency programs I'd be interested in, and it doesn't look like any of them have integrated prelim years. But when I look at the current residents in the program, most did their prelim year at that program/university/hospital.
Is it a separate match altogether? If so, are there a lot of specialties competing for these first year spots? Or is it somehow combined into one match, with radiology program rankings followed by prelim programs or something? And what is the difference between a prelim year and a transitional year? Does each radiology program have a different requirement for that first year, or is it pretty much standardized? What is the best way to make sure you do your first year at least in the same city as your radiology training?
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Most applicants do something like the following:
--apply to radiology, transitional, and prelim programs through ERAS in early Sept. Most radiology programs don't start until your second year of residency (post-grad year 2), and you have to do a prelim or transitional program for your first year (intern year or PGY1). These are called "Advanced" programs. Some programs also offer a "categorical" position, in which you do your prelim year with the same program. Most categorical programs have this structured like a transitional or prelim year, but some spread out the "intern year" rotations over your five years in residency.
--interview at radiology, transitional, and prelim programs from Nov - Jan (can even be late Oct through early Feb)
--Submit a rank order list like this
1. Radiology Program A
----Nearby Transitional Year Program
----Other Nearby Transitional Year Program
----Other TY near my med school (don't have to move twice)
----Less Desirable TY program
----Prelim program A
----Prelim Program B
2. Radiology Program B
----different rank list for the TYs and prelim programs you want if you match to program B
3. etc. etc.
In other words, you create a rank order list for the radiology programs, and under each radiology program you list your rank order list for the TY and prelim years.
IF you want a more thorough explanation, I'd refer you to First Aid for the Match or Iserson's Getting into residency.
--apply to radiology, transitional, and prelim programs through ERAS in early Sept. Most radiology programs don't start until your second year of residency (post-grad year 2), and you have to do a prelim or transitional program for your first year (intern year or PGY1). These are called "Advanced" programs. Some programs also offer a "categorical" position, in which you do your prelim year with the same program. Most categorical programs have this structured like a transitional or prelim year, but some spread out the "intern year" rotations over your five years in residency.
--interview at radiology, transitional, and prelim programs from Nov - Jan (can even be late Oct through early Feb)
--Submit a rank order list like this
1. Radiology Program A
----Nearby Transitional Year Program
----Other Nearby Transitional Year Program
----Other TY near my med school (don't have to move twice)
----Less Desirable TY program
----Prelim program A
----Prelim Program B
2. Radiology Program B
----different rank list for the TYs and prelim programs you want if you match to program B
3. etc. etc.
In other words, you create a rank order list for the radiology programs, and under each radiology program you list your rank order list for the TY and prelim years.
IF you want a more thorough explanation, I'd refer you to First Aid for the Match or Iserson's Getting into residency.
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Ah, that really help to clarify things. I haven't bothered buying a book yet since it's still a little distant in my future (have to worry about step 1 first), but asking questions on a forum is free! 
Just something I've been curious about for a year... thanks for finally making some sense of it for me. 
From you post and others previously, it seems that a TY is much preferrable to a prelim year. Is there any specific reason for this? Are prelim years harder to get, or are they just harder (more grueling) years?
Just something I've been curious about for a year... thanks for finally making some sense of it for me. From you post and others previously, it seems that a TY is much preferrable to a prelim year. Is there any specific reason for this? Are prelim years harder to get, or are they just harder (more grueling) years?
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WOW! That was really helpful for me! I didn't know the separate lists for prelim years... I thought it was one list for internships, one for radiology. SDN is the best thing ever, I tell ya!
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TY programs are generally more competitive and easier (less call, more electives) than prelim programs in internal medicine and certainly than prelim programs in surgery. However, there are exceptions to this general rule (super cush prelim programs and not so cush transitional year programs). Another general rule is that the more academic and the more urban the program, the harder the intern year, but again this is not a hard and fast rule.
Finally, some radiology programs are "categorical," meaning that your intern year is incorporated somehow into the radiology program. Often this means you just do a prelim or transitional year at the same place as you do your radiology residency. However, a few programs spread out your wards work over all 5 years of residency, which may mean you're treated more like a radiologist even on your ward months.
Some argue that it's a mistake to do an easy PGY-1 year, as your first-hand experiences in the hospital during a tougher intern year will be invaluable over your radiology training and career.
Most disagree and say the prelim year is much work / pain / hard-ache / social work for little benefit to your own skills as a radiologist.
It may partly depend on how you learn.
Meanwhile, there have been some calls by top dogs to shorten the "intern" requirements for radiologists to 6 months, in part to make room for more specialization training. (It used to be that most radiologists did not do fellowships, but now 70-80% do.)
Finally, some radiology programs are "categorical," meaning that your intern year is incorporated somehow into the radiology program. Often this means you just do a prelim or transitional year at the same place as you do your radiology residency. However, a few programs spread out your wards work over all 5 years of residency, which may mean you're treated more like a radiologist even on your ward months.
Some argue that it's a mistake to do an easy PGY-1 year, as your first-hand experiences in the hospital during a tougher intern year will be invaluable over your radiology training and career.
Most disagree and say the prelim year is much work / pain / hard-ache / social work for little benefit to your own skills as a radiologist.
It may partly depend on how you learn.
Meanwhile, there have been some calls by top dogs to shorten the "intern" requirements for radiologists to 6 months, in part to make room for more specialization training. (It used to be that most radiologists did not do fellowships, but now 70-80% do.)