Now, a cautionary tale...

[W19]

No one has adequately explained the opinion, LOL! It's just something I occasionally see posted. Some IMGs are American born.

My best guess? Some feel its (CS) sole purpose is to eliminate people with poor Engrish and is a waste of time/money for those with standardized educations.

Wow! I know a FMG that failed that test 3 times and gave up to do nursing. He think that they failed him because he has a thick accent... Maybe that's true.

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[jakeislove]

Wow! I know a FMG that failed that test 3 times and gave up to do nursing. He think that they failed him because he has a thick accent... Maybe that's true.

Even if he took the exam in Philadelphia, something else must have been wrong.

 

[W19]

Even if he took the exam in Philadelphia, something else must have been wrong.

What do you mean? I know for sure that he took once in philly, but I am not sure about the other times...

 

[jakeislove]

What do you mean? I know for sure that he took once in philly, but I am not sure about the other times...

Philly is alleged to have the highest failure rate for offshore students.

I found it okay and did fine.

 

[W19]

Philly is alleged to have the highest failure rate for offshore students.

I found it okay and did fine.

Ok... It's sad because that guy could not see himself doing anything else other than being a doc, but finally came to the realization that door had closed on him.. He is going to do nursing even if he is not into it...

Did you apply to psych? If so, how many iis you had?

 

[jakeislove]

Ok... It's sad because that guy could not see himself doing anything else other than being a doc, but finally came to the realization that door had closed on him.. He is going to do nursing even if he is not into it...

Did you apply to psych? If so, how many iis you had?

Quite a few people are in his position. There's no telling the extent to which a thick accent is damning but the people I know who did fine spoke English well.

Doctors lacking English proficiency or having thick accents has been a complaint for years. It had to be addressed.

Have an IV this week! Hope it goes well.

Studying like crazy for Step 3 after graduation. I'd rather get it done before intern yer begins.

 

[jbay99]

Good luck in landing a residency.

A little harsh Goro... 534 people matched out of a SGU this year so there's really no reason why they couldn't. It just comes down to how hard you work.

 

[deleted480308]

A little harsh Goro... 534 people matched out of a SGU this year so there's really no reason why they couldn't. It just comes down to how hard you work.

How many matched isn't as important as that number next to how many should have matched if 100% of their matticulants did

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Quite a few people are in his position. There's no telling the extent to which a thick accent is damning but the people I know who did fine spoke English well.

Doctors lacking English proficiency or having thick accents has been a complaint for years. It had to be addressed.

Have an IV this week! Hope it goes well.

Studying like crazy for Step 3 after graduation. I'd rather get it done before intern yer begins.

Depending on what you are going into, taking Step 3 during or after your intern year might be better. As people say, 2 months for Step 1, 2 weeks for Step 2, and 2 days for Step 3. Don't set yourself up to fail Step 3. No one really cares about your score on it as long as it is a pass.

 

[jbay99]

How many matched isn't as important as that number next to how many should have matched if 100% of their matticulants did

That would be 792 if every US citizen would have matched. Still not a bad percentage considering that there is probably a good number of students that have no business being in med school. But if you belong and work hard, you will likely get a residency.

 

[jakeislove]

Depending on what you are going into, taking Step 3 during or after your intern year might be better. As people say, 2 months for Step 1, 2 weeks for Step 2, and 2 days for Step 3. Don't set yourself up to fail Step 3. No one really cares about your score on it as long as it is a pass.

Thanks!

I'm applying for psych and really have nothing useful to do between Mid-January and July.

 

[Skip Intro]

Depending on what you are going into, taking Step 3 during or after your intern year might be better. As people say, 2 months for Step 1, 2 weeks for Step 2, and 2 days for Step 3. Don't set yourself up to fail Step 3. No one really cares about your score on it as long as it is a pass.

Actually, the old saying goes: Step 1 - 2 months, Step 2 - 2 weeks, Step 3 - #2 pencil.



No one cares about your Step 3 score. No one. Just that you pass it.

-Skip

 

[deleted480308]

That would be 792 if every US citizen would have matched. Still not a bad percentage considering that there is probably a good number of students that have no business being in med school. But if you belong and work hard, you will likely get a residency.

That would make 67% match rate....atrocious

 

[jbay99]

That would make 67% match rate....atrocious

Again, part of that is because the school is giving people a chance that probably do not belong in medical school in the first place. If they are unable to match, it is likely due to their performance rather than simply because they are at SGU.

 

[W19]

Again, part of that is because the school is giving people a chance that probably do not belong in medical school in the first place. If they are unable to match, it is likely due to their performance rather than simply because they are at SGU.

Don't they have a 98% step 1 first time passing rate... Why is it only 67%?

 

[jbay99]

Don't they have a 98% step 1 first time passing rate... Why is it only 67%?

I believe it is 98% first time pass rate for those the school allows to take the exam. I think you have to pass a practice exam for them to allow you to sit for the step 1. So those that don't take the step 1 on time or those that barely pass the step 1 likely account for the majority of the 33% that don't match on their first attempt. It also looks like others coming out of SGU are set on one specialty that may be too competitive and don't apply broadly.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

That's great but a 200% pass rate wouldn't affect the bias enjoyed by FMG's. If it's a Caribbean school people say "They taught for the test", LOL!

Another one I love is "The CS exam is useless for US grads".

What's wrong with that? Many US schools (including mine) are using NBME exams now...

 

[jakeislove]

What's wrong with that? Many US schools (including mine) are using NBME exams now...

I've never quite figured out the logic.

 

[Skip Intro]

Wow! I know a FMG that failed that test 3 times and gave up to do nursing. He think that they failed him because he has a thick accent... Maybe that's true.

I work with plenty of foreign-trained doctors with thick accents, some of whom took the TOEFL and others Step 2-CS. I assure you that, if he was comprehensible, it was not just a failure to communicate effectively in English.

-Skip

 

[W19]

I work with plenty of foreign-trained doctors with thick accents, some of whom took the TOEFL and others Step 2-CS. I assure you that, if he was comprehensible, it was not just a failure to communicate effectively in English.

-Skip

I don't know the nature of the step 2 CS, but I heard it's not a difficult exam... However, failing 3x seems to be suspicious... @jakeislove insinuated the Philly testing center is notorious for failing FMG and I learned yesterday that he took it there all the 3 times and his command of the English language is not too good.

 

[bedevilled ben]

I don't know the nature of the step 2 CS, but I heard it's not a difficult exam... However, failing 3x seems to be suspicious... @jakeislove insinuated the Philly testing center is notorious for failing FMG and I learned yesterday that he took it there all the 3 times and his command of the English language is not too good.

I heard speculation that there is some selection bias at work at the Philly testing center. It is the nearest center by far to NYC and NJ, which are the major ports of entry for FMGs and IMGs, so it seems reasonable that they would have a higher failure rate than a place like Atlanta for example, that is probably attracting students primarily from US MD programs. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I just thought it was interesting and worth mentioning for people freaking out about taking CS there.

 

[W19]

I heard speculation that there is some selection bias at work at the Philly testing center. It is the nearest center by far to NYC and NJ, which are the major ports of entry for FMGs and IMGs, so it seems reasonable that they would have a higher failure rate than a place like Atlanta for example, that is probably attracting students primarily from US MD programs. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I just thought it was interesting and worth mentioning for people freaking out about taking CS there.

That certainly makes sense...

 

[Mad Jack]

That would be 792 if every US citizen would have matched. Still not a bad percentage considering that there is probably a good number of students that have no business being in med school. But if you belong and work hard, you will likely get a residency.

Is that all matriculants or just those that completed their degree? Also, how many matches were prelim positions with no guarantee of completing a full categorical residency down the road?

 

[W19]

Is that all matriculants or just those that completed their degree? Also, how many matches were prelim positions with no guarantee of completing a full categorical residency down the road?

Is preliminary position that risky?

 

[Mad Jack]

Is preliminary position that risky?

They can be. Prelim surg has been called "the road to nowhere" for IMGs, while prelim med can cost you funding in many fields, making you less attractive for the next match. If you already couldn't land a categorical because of a poor application and your prelim means you're a poor applicant with incomplete funding, well... You can see where that goes.

 

[jakeislove]

I heard speculation that there is some selection bias at work at the Philly testing center. It is the nearest center by far to NYC and NJ, which are the major ports of entry for FMGs and IMGs, so it seems reasonable that they would have a higher failure rate than a place like Atlanta for example, that is probably attracting students primarily from US MD programs. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I just thought it was interesting and worth mentioning for people freaking out about taking CS there.

The speculation makes sense.

I didn't go overboard preparing for the exam but took it towards the end of a very solid OBGYN with plenty of practice taking histories.

 

[kevinsword91]

It appears Dr. Bill failed to match again in 2015 making it his 3rd unsuccessful match.

 

[SOAP_city USA]

I read all of this (just not the actual blog) but it's epic!

I might have to read the blog tho. I mean, FFS, why not just go be a nurse!!!??? Or the painfully obvious, go be a CRNA or NP. Bad situation for this guy, YES, but I actually feel little pity for him because he has numerous "outs" for it. A luxury compared to many others.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

I feel bad for the guy, is there any way he could apply to PA school or something.

 

[W19]

He should try to become a physician in Missouri...

 

[W19]

I feel bad for the guy, is there any way he could apply to PA school or something.

Nope... One person I know tried that and no PA schools wanted to give him the chance... He is in his 2nd year internship in PR, which might land him a GP license in some states.

I am wondering if having a GP license is better than being a PA anyway....

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Nope... One person I know tried that and no PA schools wanted to give him the chance... He is in his 2nd year internship in PR, which might land him a GP license in some states.

I am wondering if having a GP license is better than being a PA anyway....

Yeah, I guess he should've been smarter than to go into the Caribbean anyhow.

 

[Jloyay]

Say this Dr. Bill individual was in his late 20s/early 30s when he graduated from that Caribbean school and passed all his steps (1, 2 CK, 2 CS) all in one shot with above-average but not rocking-great scores before applying for the match in 2011/2012. Would he have been in a better situation?

I am Canadian will be turning 24 this year and I have a 3.56 cGPA and took mcat twice (got 33 both times) but the problem is my lacklustre cGPA blocks me from the Canadian schools and I applied to American schools broadly once in 2012 (submitted my application in late September after an August MCAT and didn't get one interview- with similar cGPA back then). This year I applied again and I got into a European school (not a for-profit business school) and this thread was a really hard read for me. Are IMGS really looked down upon even after matching (as in stigmatized?). I have a few friends/acquaintances from university and high school who have already taken the plunge down to the Caribbean and will be interested in seeing how they do.

 

[the argus]

Say this Dr. Bill individual was in his late 20s/early 30s when he graduated from that Caribbean school and passed all his steps (1, 2 CK, 2 CS) all in one shot with above-average but not rocking-great scores before applying for the match in 2011/2012. Would he have been in a better situation?

I am Canadian will be turning 24 this year and I have a 3.56 cGPA and took mcat twice (got 33 both times) but the problem is my lacklustre cGPA blocks me from the Canadian schools and I applied to American schools broadly once in 2012 (submitted my application in late September after an August MCAT and didn't get one interview- with similar cGPA back then). This year I applied again and I got into a European school (not a for-profit business school) and this thread was a really hard read for me. Are IMGS really looked down upon even after matching (as in stigmatized?). I have a few friends/acquaintances from university and high school who have already taken the plunge down to the Caribbean and will be interested in seeing how they do.

Because of your GPA and MCAT scores, I think it's pretty safe to say that you would be one of the people that does well in the caribbean. If you could handle the lifestyle adjustment to living there, I don't think you need to worry about being able to handle the material.

Whether IMGs are looked down upon after matching is really up to the individual person doing the looking. There will always be people, many of them on this forum, that will always assume you are an idiot because you went to a caribbean school. That said, lots of physicians don't judge other physicians by where they went to medical school, they judge them on their competency. Caribbean grads who finish residency don't have any more trouble finding jobs than US grads, you just likely won't be working at a prestigious university.

That said, there are 2 very real downsides to going caribbean.

1. Majority of grads match into primary care (FM, IM, peds, psych). People absolutely match into non-primary care fields, but these are only the top applicants and even then it is somewhat of a crapshoot. Also, even in primary care fields, you are basically disqualified from top tier programs. You can still get a great education at mid-tier programs and lots of IMGs match into them, but they are your ceiling for the most part.

2. Uncertainty about the future of GME positions in the US. US MD/DO enrollment is increasing every year, and the US congress has not increased GME funding since 1997. >6000 IMGs matched this year and have in past years, so there is really no crunch being felt yet (and I assume there won't be for at least 3 more years). That said, if GME funding does not increase, there will be a point in the next 5-10 years where there are a dwindling number of spots for IMGs. There is also the ACGME/AOA merger that will be complete by 2020, and it's unknown how that will actually affect the number of GME positions.

2a. Being Canadian, it will also be that much more difficult for you in the US match because you will need a visa. Most programs provide them, but I think there is certainly a preference given to US citizens/permanent residents.

 

[tartesos]

He should try to become a physician in Missouri...

There is an option for him to use his md degree that I learned of through a friend.
There are programs called md to np that will train an img into RN then np in 3 years and some will even pay your tuition if you work for them x years afterwards.
Not ideal but at least will practice independently and will have a much broader knowledge base than a regular np( and make some nice change to pay up those loans)

Just google md to np program.

Hope that helps him or someone in his situation.

 

[dellprecision]

There is an option for him to use his md degree that I learned of through a friend.
There are programs called md to np that will train an img into RN then np in 3 years and some will even pay your tuition if you work for them x years afterwards.
Not ideal but at least will practice independently and will have a much broader knowledge base than a regular np( and make some nice change to pay up those loans)

Just google md to np program.

Hope that helps him or someone in his situation.

He already was a RN, so maybe that will expedite the process?

 

[tartesos]

He already was a RN, so maybe that will expedite the process?

That would be 2 years or less for him.
Why hasn't he done this already?

 

[W19]

That would be 2 years or less for him.
Why hasn't he done this already?

Probably ego...

 

[Skip Intro]

Probably ego...

Or, pride. Or, perhaps both.

-Skip

 

[W19]

@Skip Intro It's a weird situation! This individual is unable to get into a FM residency because PD probably think he does not have what it takes to become a physician, and yet if he decides to do (family) NP, he will somewhat have the same scope with FM physicians in some states... What a crazy world!

 

[hmania]

Hi skip! So long since I was on sdn! Just wanna say hello!

 

[Jloyay]

Judging by his writing and poor grammar I guess the end result is not too surprising. That plus the fact that he needed multiple attempts on the USMLE did him in.

 

[tartesos]

Judging by his writing and poor grammar I guess the end result is not too surprising. That plus the fact that he needed multiple attempts on the USMLE did him in.

You may be right, but don't sound so happy about it! ( I'm kidding here, don't call the cops yet).
It's a bad fate I don't wish on anyone.

Maybe he's an NP already and paying back those loans, I hope.

 

[Skip Intro]

Hi skip! So long since I was on sdn! Just wanna say hello!

-Skip

 

[NRAI2001]

This is a cautionary tale indeed. I've come across it before, and followed it intermittently. It's a good reference for borderline students thinking about their prospects abroad.

I feel for his plight, however, his hubris had no small part to play in this. He chose to attend schools that did not require the MCAT. There really is no good reason to do this. He thought he could take a short cut, and avoid retaking/revisiting courses in undergrad to prepare himself. He failed Step 1 and 2 multiple times, which is an indicator that he really was not well prepared for the material, which he may have been if he had taken the prerequisites seriously enough. There is a reason that we learn foundations first, and have our understanding of them challenged by assessment tests to see if we are ready to assimilate and accommodate the information we will learn in medical school.

He many times scorned the idea of becoming nurse practitioner, which he could have completed by 2010 or 2011, and been gainfully employed.

Also, it looks like he spent a lot of time blogging and posting when he should have been studying.

Why on earth did he graduate and then apply to ERAS without step2 CK, CS? Clearly he has received little guidance from his medical schools, but he is repeating the same sort of behavior as before, and trying to skip steps.

It may seem like I am kicking a guy while he's down. I'm not. I sincerely hope that he can find some why to turn it all around. But at some point he needs to get a grip. This man was as much a victim of his own vainglorious nature as he was of predatory for profit education.

I wish him the best. I think that a possible good use of the resources and experience that he has as an RN and on this personal odyssey would be to get a job in an ICU, and pursue training as a CRNA. Just an idea. I am not a guidance counselor, merely a Googler.

Shalom. May he fare well, his fortunes improve, and may others take warning.

I completely agree with this post.. Who doesn't feel sorry for the guy. But what the heck was the guy doing and thinking.. Hes 41 but obviously knows how to use a computer and the internet if he has blog.. If he didn't receive guidance from his school he could have sought it on sdn or valuemd or one of the other sites..

For all future applicants.. Avoid this train wreck scenario (i m sorry but this guy getting a residency is probably a 1 in 100k shot.. And no not in a Hollywood triumph beat the odds movie script scenario)..:

Mistake #1: do your god dam research on the school you re thinking of attending and giving 100s of thousands of dollars to.. Don't just watch an infomercial or attend a"siminar" and sign up... This is the real world... No mcat required should be a red flag... Do anything it takes to get into a US MD school or a DO school.

Mistake #2: never never never take the step if you re not prepared.. No excuse for this whatsoever.. There are diagnostic exams... Passing the diag by 1 point or 2 points or heck even 10 to 15 points doesn't not realistically guage your ability to pass the exam....

Mistake #3: thinking passing the exam (which he did not do) alone is enough... You have to do above average or atleast average to even get interviews...even then Getting an interview or ten doesn't mean anything... The step exams are what make or break IMG applicants!!!!! Don't literally gamble your time, $100k's, and hopes of a career away on "feeling ready/lucky" and hoping to get lucky and pass... With the diag exams you shouldn't hope.. You should know where you stand.

Mistake #4: not learning a god dam thing from your past mistakes... Failing once is already an inexcusable mistake.. But the few people who would excuse it (myself included) and give a person the benefit of the doubt and a second shot... We would assume that you learned your mistake the first time AND not only NEVER failed another step again but learned from your mistake SO WELL THAT YOU EXCELLED ON YOUR FUTURE STEP EXAMS and performed above average. . Barely passing a second attempt by a few points demonstrates that you did not learn your lesson and are still in a hurry or are just plain irresponsible... Failing it six times like bill shows that you re crazy.. If ever even granted a spot the first mistake you ever make at all ---> you re lawyer food... The first mention of six fails or even one fail you re toast to a jury.

Mistake #5: don't blame the system completely... Slogans like "we are more than a score.." Are pathetic.. Yes there are many qualified students that do not get residency.. I m sorry i don't know you personally but with six attempts and coming from a garbage dump of a school you are not one of these qualified applicants.. Better to realize this soon and plan your life and hopefully truly find a career that you can love and be happy with sooner.

Mistake #6 or even #1: with 20 years of nursing experience why not go the NP route? Yes they are not docs but all the noble intentions you mentioned about serving the under served, truly caring about patients etc... Could have been sought with an NP or even better a PA degree.. Probably better for us you didn't go the NP route bc undoubtedly you would have become one of those militant NPs and you re blog would have probably been about why NPs are better than docs bc they have feelings and are equally trained with their two years of online NP degree..

Hopefully he can salvage his life (i give him credit for sticking with it for 10 years now).. And maybe go back to nursing or join one of those MD to PA programs.

Cautionary tale indeed to all you premeds thinking of foreign medshool.

 

[the argus]

Mistake #3: thinking passing the exam (which he did not do) alone is enough... You have to do above average or atleast average to even get interviews...even then Getting an interview or ten doesn't mean anything... The step exams are what make or break IMG applicants

While I agree with the general message of your post, the above is incorrect.

1. Matched IMGs (and especially US-IMGs) have lower step scores than matched USMDs in basically every specialty, there are a few that are equal. This idea that IMGs must have astronomical scores to match is a myth that is propagated on SDN that just isn't correct. It's true that for the best programs that will take US-IMGs (those with a mix of US-IMGs/DO/USMD), the US-IMG will likely have to outscore the USMD applicants, overall matched US-IMGs have lower step scores than matched USMDs.

2. Anyone with 10 interviews has a very good chance of matching, regardless of graduation status.

 

[NRAI2001]

While I agree with the general message of your post, the above is incorrect.

1. Matched IMGs (and especially US-IMGs) have lower step scores than matched USMDs in basically every specialty, there are a few that are equal. This idea that IMGs must have astronomical scores to match is a myth that is propagated on SDN that just isn't correct. It's true that for the best programs that will take US-IMGs (those with a mix of US-IMGs/DO/USMD), the US-IMG will likely have to outscore the USMD applicants, overall matched US-IMGs have lower step scores than matched USMDs.

2. Anyone with 10 interviews has a very good chance of matching, regardless of graduation status.

For any given program the avg scores of the IMGS are significantly higher than the US MDs.. I think few would debate this.. Having gone through the process, talking to many PDs and my wife being on the residency panel at her program i ve witnessed this. Yes it's true that you don't need astronomical scores to match (my scores were in the low 220s) but again for my program and the same for my wife's the US grads had priority and consistently had 10 to 15 points lower than the IMGs.

Maybe you're experiences were from 5-10 years ago (even three years ago it was easier) when it was a different environment for IMGs.. Back then there were many programs that had more difficulty filling or went far down their match list.. Nowadays programs are not having as much trouble.

Having ten interviews or any given number isn't absolute... Obviously its a better sign than having just 2 or 3... I have a few classmates that had over ten interviews and didn't match.. And no they weren't socially awkward..

But again you are right that you don't need sky high scores to match..this is not meant to discourage Carib students or scare them.. I want to warn you guys and i hope that you do the best you can... But having barely passing scores isn't going to get you far (even if they were first attempts)... Even having scores in the low two hundreds is really going to make life difficult for you. IMO you shouldn't take the exam untill you are consistently scoring in the 220s...220s will put you in a decent to good position of matching.. Who knows if this will hold true in the future.

Basically don't go through this process willy nilly and oblivious to the reality of the system.. I ve seen too many people make stupid decisions because they believed that some how things would just work out.. Or they listened to the advice of people who went through the process more than ten years ago or even worse were just repeating 2nd hand or 3rd hand info..

 

[the argus]

For any given program the avg scores of the IMGS are significantly higher than the US MDs.. I think few would debate this.. Having gone through the process, talking to many PDs and my wife being on the residency panel at her program i ve witnessed this. Yes it's true that you don't need astronomical scores to match (my scores were in the low 220s) but again for my program and the same for my wife's the US grads had priority and consistently had 10 to 15 points lower than the IMGs.

Maybe you're experiences were from 5-10 years ago (even three years ago it was easier) when it was a different environment for IMGs.. Back then there were many programs that had more difficulty filling or went far down their match list.. Nowadays programs are not having as much trouble.

Having ten interviews or any given number isn't absolute... Obviously its a better sign than having just 2 or 3... I have a few classmates that had over ten interviews and didn't match.. And no they weren't socially awkward..

But again you are right that you don't need sky high scores to match..this is not meant to discourage Carib students or scare them.. I want to warn you guys and i hope that you do the best you can... But having barely passing scores isn't going to get you far (even if they were first attempts)... Even having scores in the low two hundreds is really going to make life difficult for you. IMO you shouldn't take the exam untill you are consistently scoring in the 220s...220s will put you in a decent to good position of matching.. Who knows if this will hold true in the future.

Basically don't go through this process willy nilly and oblivious to the reality of the system.. I ve seen too many people make stupid decisions because they believed that some how things would just work out.. Or they listened to the advice of people who went through the process more than ten years ago or even worse were just repeating 2nd hand or 3rd hand info..

I matched this year. I agree (and wrote in my post) that if the IMG is competing for a spot at program that also takes USMDs, then yes, the IMG will probably have to outscore the USMD. But overall, matched IMGs have lower board scores than matched USMDs. This is not my opinion, it is from the NRMP data reports. This is because most IMGs match at programs USMDs don't want.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

And things haven't changed that much in the past 3 or 5 years. You can look at the data and see that IMGs, US or otherwise, are matching at the same rates that they have in recent history. This is another common talking point on SDN that is incorrect. Again, this is not my opinion, the data shows this.

But as I said, I agree with the overall gist of your message. People should absolutely do the research before attempting this path.

 

[NRAI2001]

I matched this year. I agree (and wrote in my post) that if the IMG is competing for a spot at program that also takes USMDs, then yes, the IMG will probably have to outscore the USMD. But overall, matched IMGs have lower board scores than matched USMDs. This is not my opinion, it is from the NRMP data reports. This is because most IMGs match at programs USMDs don't want.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

And things haven't changed that much in the past 3 or 5 years. You can look at the data and see that IMGs, US or otherwise, are matching at the same rates that they have in recent history. This is another common talking point on SDN that is incorrect. Again, this is not my opinion, the data shows this.

But as I said, I agree with the overall gist of your message. People should absolutely do the research before attempting this path.

Looking at the NRMP data.. Looks like only half of the IMGs applying to FM, IM, PSYCH matched... Looks like Peds was slightly higher than half... Vs over 95% of US MDs who applied to those fields matching.... Vs ~75% of IMGs matching into rads lol..

Looking at the overall score comparisons for US grads vs IMGs.. The only field that stands out as having an average step 1/2 score lower than their US grad counter parts was FM... Psych, em, Peds, IM, obgyn, all report about close to average as AMGs. Also remember most of the IMGs matching for those spots are usually matching at lower tiered to mid tiered programs..meaning on avg IMGs had about the same scores and given those scores still matched at mostly lower tiered and some mid tiered programs..MEANING that for their given programs they likely scored significantly above the AMGs (who for the most part match at upper to mid tiered programs) or went to a program that AMGs won't go to.. Basically the scores AMGs require to get into top to mid tier programs will get IMGs into lower tiered programs

But again I get what you re saying.. To match in general you don't need sky high scores.. But having atleast atleast at least close to average should be a start foe IMGs... Realistically IMO for any given spot that AMGs are also applying to you should have 10 to 15 points higher than them.. As US MED school classes are increasing the undesirable/uncompetitive programs where few US grads are applying to (hence lower IMG scores) are shrinking... AMGs are applying and joining these programs in greater numbers... Supposedly next year will be really bad for IMGs.. Hope not

 

[Mad Jack]

IMGs have lower scores than USMDs in all but a couple specialties per Charting Outcomes 2014.