NP applying to med school - what are my chances?

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

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I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian female, California resident. I've been a Nurse Practitioner (working full time for Internal Medicine hospitalist group and per diem at a Women's Health clinic and an urgent care) since 2016. Prior to that I had 6 years of nursing experience (mix of hospital, clinic, nursing home experience). I have realized that NP is not the right career path for me, and I want to apply for med school. I've done extensive research on my own, but I'd love to get your honest opinions regarding my chances of success getting into med school. Obviously I'm a non-traditional applicant and I'm somewhat "old" by med school standards...I would matriculate at age 31 IF I get accepted next cycle.

Planning to apply in 2018 for 2019 matriculation. MD and DO schools. Applying only in California, Indiana, Colorado, Hawaii, and maybe New York because I'm married and have to take into account where my husband is willing to live and where we have family ties. I will be applying to approx 15-20 schools. I am not willing to consider Caribbean schools because I hope to specialize in something other than Internal Medicine or Family Medicine, and I know it's an uphill battle for residency spots if one graduates from an offshore school. I'm too old to take that chance.

Don't know if this will matter, but my Dad graduated from Indiana University School of Medicine.

MCAT: Planning to take in April 2018. That way I'd have my scores by June, and I would be able to apply "early decision" to my top choice schools. I can't afford not to work full time, so I only have a couple free hours per day to study (for next 6 months). I am hoping to get a 509 or above on the MCAT. I will be doing "self study" with Kaplan books.

Undergrad GPA: 3.19 (I know it's bad - this was 10 years ago and I was a completely unfocused party animal who rarely went to class)
Science GPA: I don't know how to calculate this, since most of my classes are "expired" by med school admissions standards...I did great in some classes and C's in others.
Masters GPA: 3.84 (Family Nurse Practitioner)

I'm enrolled in the UCLA Extension Pre-Med Certificate program. I'll be taking Chem, Biol, Ochem (both), Physics (both), Biochem, PreCalculus, and Microbiology. I will finish September 2018. I'll have the main requirements (Ochem & Physics) done by the time I apply in June 2018. I'm planning to work super hard at this; I want to get straight A's.

I'm also planning to retake some undergrad classes I got bad grades in to boost my overall GPA. These include math classes and humanities classes I bombed because I was a terrible student at that time in my life.

Letters of Rec: I have LOR from 2 ER doctors and 2 Internal Medicine doctors. I can also get LOR from nursing staff. I'm lacking any LOR from college professors since I'm an older non-trad...thinking about trying to get a couple from UCLA Extension. Any suggestions here?

Extracurriculars: I speak Spanish, play piano, am passionate about traveling and hiking (been to several countries and every state), I have a substantial art portfolio (my passion)

Volunteering: None 🙁 I don't have time with work and studying! How important is this? Would something like Humane Society count?

Research: Again, none 🙁 I have taken upper-level research courses in NP school, and have research writing samples as a result, but none were published. I have never done any lab or clinical research.

I've never applied to med school in the past.

In my opinion, my strengths include well-rounded character with many interests outside of medicine, maturity, my work experience, and the fact that I've worked full time since age 14 including during undergrad and grad school.

So...thank you for reading! Any advice? Do I have a chance? Any specific points I should focus on when applying?

 

[bears1992]

I'm just a premed but I'll take a stab at this. I imagine your 3.1ish GPA is around 120 credits? The all As postbac should be able to bring it to the 3.3ish range which is good for all DO and maybe some of the bottom tier MD that really value upward trends. I have no idea on how your experience as a NP would affect your chances (I feel like the obvious answer is that it helps you but adcoms are weird) You will absolutely need sustained volunteering, (4 hours a week for a year). You've got the clinical experience part down so I would probably focus your volunteering in a nonclinical setting (soup kitchen or department of corrections GED tutoring). From what I hear on this site from adcoms, research isn't that important to most schools. MCAT will also play a huge role.

I think you can get into DO easy as long as you get the volunteering going, do great in your postbac and get an above average score on the MCAT. You might have to really research MD schools to find the school list that gets you an acceptance as they seem to value stats more than DO.

And I am 99% sure the humane society counts towards non-clinical volunteering. Also, don't retake classes that you got a C or better in. DO schools did away with grade replacement so they will affect your GPA just as much as a new class would.

See the below link for a survey of MD adcoms. It shows what they value when giving out interview invites.

A Compilation of Essential SDN Wisdom

 

[cactusman]

You should take biochem before you do the MCAT. Is that planned in your timeline?
Even as a non-trads, I don't think you'll want 4 clinical LORs. You will want LOR(s? 2 would probably be best even though there seems to be some slack for non-trads) from UCLA Extension professors because you want someone who can write about your academic ability.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

would be able to apply "early decision" to my top choice schools.

Can an applicant apply to more than one med school ED? I thought only one.


Edit to add:

You can only apply to one ED school, and you must enroll in it if accepted.

To apply through the EDP, applicants must follow these guidelines:

• Apply to only one U.S. medical school by the stated deadline date (August 1 for schools that participate in AMCAS);
• Not to apply through the EDP if they have already submitted an initial or secondary application (AMCAS or non-AMCAS) to a U.S. medical school for the current entering class.
• Attend only this school if offered a place under the EDP.

If these guidelines are met, applicants will be notified of the school's admission decision by October 1.

I would not advise applying ED in your situation since your family is willing to live in a few places. If you apply ED to one school and get denied, then you'd be a very late applicant (October) to your remaining schools, which probably wouldn't bode too well.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

MD and DO schools. Applying only in California, Indiana, Colorado, Hawaii, and maybe New York because I'm married and have to take into account where my husband is willing to live and where we have family ties

I would look to see how difficult it would be for an unhooked OOS student to get into a MD med school in Indiana, Colorado and Hawaii. If too unlikely, then you need to further discuss with your family to broaden your geography. Getting into a Calif MD school, even as an instate student, will be very tough for you, but if you could add some lower/mid tier private MD SOMs in the midwest or elsewhere, you may have better luck.

Edit to add....I quickly looked at the numbers for those 3 OOS med schools and the numbers are not good. They're getting 90% of their apps from OOS students, yet they're only enrolling a small number. Seems like a waste of an app without a serious hook that the school needs..like URM status, low income, etc.

 

[sliceofbread136]

You need some lors from basic science professors. Physician lors generally aren't great and that is all you have

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian female, California resident. I've been a Nurse Practitioner (working full time for Internal Medicine hospitalist group and per diem at a Women's Health clinic and an urgent care) since 2016. Prior to that I had 6 years of nursing experience (mix of hospital, clinic, nursing home experience). I have realized that NP is not the right career path for me, and I want to apply for med school. I've done extensive research on my own, but I'd love to get your honest opinions regarding my chances of success getting into med school. Obviously I'm a non-traditional applicant and I'm somewhat "old" by med school standards...I would matriculate at age 31 IF I get accepted next cycle.

Planning to apply in 2018 for 2019 matriculation. MD and DO schools. Applying only in California, Indiana, Colorado, Hawaii, and maybe New York because I'm married and have to take into account where my husband is willing to live and where we have family ties. I will be applying to approx 15-20 schools. I am not willing to consider Caribbean schools because I hope to specialize in something other than Internal Medicine or Family Medicine, and I know it's an uphill battle for residency spots if one graduates from an offshore school. I'm too old to take that chance.

Don't know if this will matter, but my Dad graduated from Indiana University School of Medicine.

MCAT: Planning to take in April 2018. That way I'd have my scores by June, and I would be able to apply "early decision" to my top choice schools. I can't afford not to work full time, so I only have a couple free hours per day to study (for next 6 months). I am hoping to get a 509 or above on the MCAT. I will be doing "self study" with Kaplan books.

Undergrad GPA: 3.19 (I know it's bad - this was 10 years ago and I was a completely unfocused party animal who rarely went to class)
Science GPA: I don't know how to calculate this, since most of my classes are "expired" by med school admissions standards...I did great in some classes and C's in others.
Masters GPA: 3.84 (Family Nurse Practitioner)

I'm enrolled in the UCLA Extension Pre-Med Certificate program. I'll be taking Chem, Biol, Ochem (both), Physics (both), Biochem, PreCalculus, and Microbiology. I will finish September 2018. I'll have the main requirements (Ochem & Physics) done by the time I apply in June 2018. I'm planning to work super hard at this; I want to get straight A's.

I'm also planning to retake some undergrad classes I got bad grades in to boost my overall GPA. These include math classes and humanities classes I bombed because I was a terrible student at that time in my life.

Letters of Rec: I have LOR from 2 ER doctors and 2 Internal Medicine doctors. I can also get LOR from nursing staff. I'm lacking any LOR from college professors since I'm an older non-trad...thinking about trying to get a couple from UCLA Extension. Any suggestions here?

Extracurriculars: I speak Spanish, play piano, am passionate about traveling and hiking (been to several countries and every state), I have a substantial art portfolio (my passion)

Volunteering: None 🙁 I don't have time with work and studying! How important is this? Would something like Humane Society count?

Research: Again, none 🙁 I have taken upper-level research courses in NP school, and have research writing samples as a result, but none were published. I have never done any lab or clinical research.

I've never applied to med school in the past.

In my opinion, my strengths include well-rounded character with many interests outside of medicine, maturity, my work experience, and the fact that I've worked full time since age 14 including during undergrad and grad school.

So...thank you for reading! Any advice? Do I have a chance? Any specific points I should focus on when applying?

Kaplan's materials are garbage. Use TBR+EK. You will need professor LORs. You will need volunteering. You will likely bomb your MCAT if you take it before you complete your course retakes- the MCAT is a horribly difficult exam, do not underestimate it.

 

[cactusman]

Your class grades never expire; at some schools the courses may not be accepted for prereqs but grades never die. Additionally, courses that were nursing specific may not be counted as "science" (BCPM)

Notable exception: Texas after 10 years, with Fresh Start.
Not relevant to OP, though.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I'm enrolled in the UCLA Extension Pre-Med Certificate program. I'll be taking Chem, Biol, Ochem (both), Physics (both), Biochem, PreCalculus, and Microbiology. I will finish September 2018

. I can't afford not to work full time, so

So over the next 14 months, while working full time AND studying for the MCAT, you're taking 9 BCPM courses and hoping for straight A's? I'm trying to figure out when you'll have time to study, do any homework, write up labs, etc.

Will you need to take stats or more bio and chem? It appears that you're not taking bio II and chem II (or whatever UCLA would call those courses)

 

[aymar]

Have you done the math on what going to medical school would mean financially? I am not saying that finances should be the only factor considered, but you currently work in the medical field in a position that is only expected to grow over the next few years. It is entirely possible that you could actually end up worse off financially if you go to medical school vs. finishing your career as an NP.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Thank you so much for the replies! I am so grateful to see all these thoughtful responses already! I will take the advice to heart. I learned some things I didn't know, for example that I can only apply to 1 school for Early Decision...and that volunteering is more important than I thought...and research not so much...
I need to reevaluate my timeline, it seems. It is probably too ambitious to attempt working full time while taking classes and studying for the MCAT, as many of you mentioned.
I have some more questions based on the replies I've gotten so far:
1) How do I get a committee letter, particularly as a UCLA Extension student?
2) For Indiana University (and I should mention I'm also interested in Marian University in Indianapolis), can I apply as an Indiana resident if I grew up there, went to high school there, attended IU for undergrad, and my parents live there (i.e. permanent address)? IU is my top choice so I was disappointed to hear that it's one of the more difficult schools to gain acceptance. I currently live in California for my husband's job and I have a California drivers license, RN/NP license, etc. but I'm definitely not trying to stay here.
3) Someone mentioned that Kaplan MCAT study materials are crap...can I ask why? Any further opinions on this?
4) Are my chances any better at new schools? I am looking into the Kaiser school in Pasadena which is slated to open in 2019. I'm also willing to consider UNLV which is a newer school.

Also for those who asked, I did "do the math" with regard to finances. If I graduate from medical school at age 35 I'd be at a comparative disadvantage (vs NP) in terms of income/savings until roughly mid-40s, at which point it would equal out, and at the 60 year mark I will have made significantly more as MD/DO compared to NP. This is assuming is make around $200k, so it could be a lot more if I pursue a higher paying specialty. So in the end, it's better financially to go for med school. But yes, it will definitely be a struggle during my 30s, especially after being accustomed to making good money for several years.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Also I forgot to ask - is it a bad look to take the MCAT more than once? I've come across conflicting opinions about this.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

How do I get a committee letter, particularly as a UCLA Extension student?

I doubt you can. Last time I checked, UCLA doesn't even do CL's for their traditional undergrad premeds. They just have too many. I'm not sure any of the UCs do them except maybe (maybe!) UC Merced as some sort of enticement to go there.

If not available, then you'd get LORs like the othe UC premed and those would be forwarded to AMCAS, etc.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I apply as an Indiana resident if I grew up there, went to high school there, attended IU for undergrad, and my parents live there (i.e. permanent address)?

I currently live in California for my husband's job and I have a California drivers license, RN/NP license, etc. but I'm definitely not trying to stay here.

No, because you're in your late 20s, married, working/living in Calif...and likely paying Calif state taxes. You'd have nothing to show that you're an Indiana resident unless you moved there pronto.

As a married adult, you can't claim a residency in your parents state if you're not living there.

To IU, it appears that you're also living in Calif for your job. When's the last time you paid taxes in Indiana? Unfortunately, IU cannot really trust that you have no intention of staying in Calif (and presumably live in IN). You could get a residency in Calif or Colorado or ??? and end up living there.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Also I forgot to ask - is it a bad look to take the MCAT more than once? I've come across conflicting opinions about this.

The goal should be: one and done. We don't know what each med school thinks of taking the MCAT more than once. We don't know if they average the scores, which could be nasty if you got a low score the first time, and then an OK score the next.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I'm also willing to consider UNLV which is a newer school.

You may not understand that public med schools are different from undergrads. Public med schools take their mission to educate doctors for their state more seriously then undergrad schools do. Maybe because their gov'ts are contributing more to their public med schools, I don't know.

For that reason, you'll often see stats like Public SOM received 4000 apps, 20% instate, 80% OOS....but the matriculated numbers will be something like: 85 students instate and 10 students OOS. And, likely those 10 students help that med school in some way....high MCAT scores, URM, etc.

Sometimes an OOS public will consider if you have a tie to the state. As mentioned above, IU is hard to get into OOS so that sounds unlikely. One of my state's public med schools seems to like accepting high stats OOS students with ties to the state to help balance some of the lower scores that some instate matriculants have.

There are a few public med schools that need more OOS applicants. UVM comes to mind, but most publics admit mostly only instate residents, and some hooked OOS applicants that help their reporting numbers (URM, low income, etc). Of course, MD/PhD students can be from any state because their funding doesn't come from the state.

Private SOMs usually don't care where you're from. Baylor seems to be an exception because of how Texas helps fund it, I think.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Thank you, the clarifications are helpful.

 

[cactusman]

No, because you're in your late 20s, married, working/living in Calif...and likely paying Calif state taxes. You'd have nothing to show that you're an Indiana resident unless you moved there pronto.

As a married adult, you can't claim a residency in your parents state if you're not living there.

To IU, it appears that you're also living in Calif for your job. When's the last time you paid taxes in Indiana? Unfortunately, IU cannot really trust that you have no intention of staying in Calif (and presumably live in IN). You could get a residency in Calif or Colorado or ??? and end up living there.

However, OP has very strong ties to Indiana. Tuition will still be priced for OOS since OP is not paying taxes and helping to support the med school, but her experience in the state and immediate family still living there means she is likely to stay in the area, generate tax revenue, and fill in physician shortages. About 24% of IU SOM students are OOS, and these are exactly the kinds of things the school is looking for in OOS students (unfortunately for OP, they're also looking for high GPA because OOS are used also to bring up stats).

OP, definitely apply to IU.

 

[Faha]

You could also apply to MU-COM in Indiana and there is RVU in Colorado.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

You could also apply to MU-COM in Indiana and there is RVU in Colorado.

I plan to apply to both, they are on my list 🙂 Thank you

 

[mfrey28]

3) Someone mentioned that Kaplan MCAT study materials are crap...can I ask why? Any further opinions on this?

FWIW, I used Kaplan and supplemented with Khan Academy and AAMC section bank. I scored 510 and received an acceptance at a DO school

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Do you have debt from your undergrad and NP degrees? Will you be taking on more debt for this UCLA post bacc?

What is the typical COA of a DO school?

Are you considering a specialty other than some sort of primary care?

The reason I'm asking all of these questions is because I'm wondering if the ROI in all of this will really be worth it, with a whole bunch more debt, particularly if you go DO route and could then more likely be heading towards a primary care specialty.

If you already have debt from your NP program, and then you tack on another $300k, will this debt be worth it since you're already a primary care provider?

You'd be 31, more likely 32 when you matriculate, then lose about 8+ years of income, be about 40 when you begin practice (again). How is this worth it?

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Do you have debt from your undergrad and NP degrees?

What is the typical COA of a DO school?

Are you considering a specialty other than some sort of primary care?

I do have debt from combined undergrad and graduate degrees. It's in the 5 figures. Thankfully I have a very good paying job at the moment and my goal is to pay off most of it by the end of 2018.
Yes I am going into this with the goal of not doing primary care. Don't take me the wrong way - primary care is a noble field - but after being a Family Nurse Practitioner, I've realized it's not the right area for me. If I wanted to do primary care I'd just stick with NP. My interests are Emergency Medicine, Trauma, Radiology, and Ophthalmology, for a variety of different reasons.
Sorry but what does "COA" mean? Cost of Attendance? From what I've seen, it's in the $40k-$50k range per year for DO schools.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Sorry but what does "COA" mean? Cost of Attendance? From what I've seen, it's in the $40k-$50k range per year for DO schools.

Yes, that's what COA stands for.

I would think COA for DO is much higher than that. $40-50k per year sounds more like just tuition.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Never give up,I will suggest if you are denied admission here in US there is always an opportunity at off shore medical schools,I can suggest one and I know personally the Assist Dean of the medical school who can help you get in for the Sep Class.I can also recommend
you for the scholarship there,Its an excellent medical school with all the clinical rotations in US,Please contact me for more details at [email protected]

Hi, if you read my post you would have seen that I'm absolutely not interested in off shore medical schools. I noticed you replied the exact same thing to several other people. Not interested.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Never give up,I will suggest if you are denied admission here in US there is always an opportunity at off shore medical schools,I can suggest one and I know personally the Assist Dean of the medical school who can help you get in for the Sep Class.I can also recommend
you for the scholarship there,Its an excellent medical school with all the clinical rotations in US,Please contact me for more details at [email protected]

Stop spamming threads with your copy/pasted sales pitch for SOMs abroad.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Yes, that's what COA stands for.

I would think COA for DO is much higher than that. $40-50k per year sounds more like just tuition.

True, and definitely something I've considered, but also I'm married and planning to only apply in my current locale or in other places where I have immediate family. I'm more concerned about just getting accepted at this point.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

True, and definitely something I've considered, but also I'm married and planning to only apply in my current locale or in other places where I have immediate family. I'm more concerned about just getting accepted at this point.

You're lucky to have immediate family that live within commuting distance of many med schools.

 

[SLU Student]

Aim to take the MCAT once. Allopathic schools are suggested to average all your scores. It may vary for D.O. programs. Regardless, even if a school explicitly states that they only take the highest or most recent, a bad score still does not bode well.

As for test prep, do not take anyone's advice on what materials to use. Everyone studies and comprehends things differently. I used Kaplan, and I found it to be very useful. I scored a 516 using only Kaplan and AAMC materials. Find what works best for you.

 

[vm26]

Volunteering: None 🙁 I don't have time with work and studying! How important is this? Would something like Humane Society count?

Research: Again, none 🙁 I have taken upper-level research courses in NP school, and have research writing samples as a result, but none were published. I have never done any lab or clinical research.

I applied to med school at age 29 having worked as a PT for several years. No research or volunteering. You clinical work experience should be enough and will greatly help you in clinical rotations (had a classmate who was formerly a PA who honored most of his clinical rotations)

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

So here's an update. I've been using some GPA calculators online. My science GPA right now is abysmal. I guess I didn't realize how poorly I did as an undergrad. I wish I could go backwards and punch myself, but...
Anyway, point being...if I get straight A's in all my post-bacc science classes from now until June 2018 (when I'm planning to apply), My science GPA will be 3.19 🙁 I didn't include nursing classes since it seems most schools don't calculate those into science GPA. That part is a bummer since I got A's in my nursing "science" classes such as Genetics & Genomics, Anatomy, Physiology, Statistics & Data Analysis, etc.

My cumulative undergrad GPA is 3.197, masters GPA 3.84.
Getting heavy into volunteering. Will do some shadowing also.
No research.
Will have several years RN experience and 1.5 years NP experience at time of application. Inpatient acute care.
I'm already studying hard for the MCAT. Putting in 4 hours per day for next 3 months, then 6 hours per day for another 3 months, then taking 2 weeks vacation next April to study 12 hours/day for 2 weeks leading up to test day. My (perhaps lofty) goal is above 510 on MCAT.

I'm already working on my personal statement. I'm well aware that it needs to be amazing. Also working on getting some more LOR.

What do you guys think? Based on my calculations? I don't know if it will be worth applying next cycle or if I should add another year of science classes to get the science GPA above 3.5. It wouldn't have much of an effect on my overall GPA though, sadly.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Will have several years RN experience and 1.5 years NP experience at time of application

Wow, after only a half of a year as an NP, you've decided against the career.

 

[candbgirl]

Did you read @gonnif's post(#9)? If not go read it now, if so go read it again! He has worked extensively as an ADCOM and I'm pretty sure he has lots of experience working with nontraditionals. He knows what he is talking about and he has shared a wealth of information with you. Slow down. As @Goro always says this a marathon and Med schools aren't going anywhere. I doubt you'll be ready to apply in June 2018. If you do and you don't fill the gaps in your application you might end up with no acceptances and have to reapply. A reapplicant has a whole different set of issues. You need t be realistic and do what you can to give yourself the best shot at a successful cycle. Applying to Med school is a crap shoot and many people with amazing applications don't get accepted. You do know that less than 50% of applicants get accepted, right? Do what you have to make yourself the best candidate possible! Good luck!


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[candbgirl]

In other words OP listen to @gonnif!


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[Cali_NP_to_MD]

Wow, after only a half of a year as an NP, you've decided against the career.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean 🙁 I do a good job and take my position seriously. It's just not right for me.

 

[Cali_NP_to_MD]

I did take your advice seriously but regardless of whether I apply this coming cycle or in 2019, I need to start taking classes and studying for the MCAT. I guess what I'm asking is if I should even bother applying in 2018 that that science gpa or if I should wait until 2019.
Another year of classes isn't going to do much for my overall gpa and multiple people said I should focus on my post/back gpa and masters gpa as "selling points" anyway.
Also I do understand that nursing courses don't count, which is why I stated that I didn't include them in my gpa calculation.