NP making decision to enter Med school

[ThetisAntithesis]

Hi all,
New to this network.
I know there are many (very many) threads of Non-trad students.
Wanted some advice.

Background:
Currently an NP. I have been in my 1st and only NP job for 5 years. 30 years old, single, no children.
Med school has always been at the back of my mind but I guess self-doubt made me think I didn't have it in me. I've always had that drive... My never-ending quest for knowlegde that I know only med school can satisfy.
The straw that broke me came when I was studying for ACLS and some concepts I had to read over and over because they felt foreign to me.
Others may disagree but I feel like NP school does not do enough or teach enough. The education is sub-par and even PA school is better.

Anyway, I made the decision last night that I have to do this or I will regret it forever.

Looked at my transcripts this morning. I am this year 10 years out of undergrad (WOW). I did okay. I made mostly As and Bs and maybe a C in physics, chem and orgo. Maybe a C in a core bio class - cellular and organ physio - C+ (sigh) My cumulative GPA for 1st degree (Biology) was 3.25. Went to nursing school at the same college so my undergrad total GPA after nursing school was 3.82
1) Does that make a difference? The 3.2 for my bio degree.

I have taken all prereqs except for Biochemistry.
2) How can I do that? Do I have to enroll at a University for that? Looked at a local communitg collegw here in New Haven and I believe I saw a biochem class but don't know if that'll count against me.

3) What can I expect my timeline to be?
I obviously want to get in ASAP because the thought of it excites me so much.
Should I shoot for a 2019 or 2020 matriculation?
Can I take the MCATs this year or get my biochem out of the way this yr and apply next year to get in for 2020.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Any other tips and suggestions welcome.

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[xerxesc]

Hi all,
New to this network.
I know there are many (very many) threads of Non-trad students.
Wanted some advice.

Background:
Currently an NP. I have been in my 1st and only NP job for 5 years. 30 years old, single, no children.
Med school has always been at the back of my mind but I guess self-doubt made me think I didn't have it in me. I've always had that drive... My never-ending quest for knowlegde that I know only med school can satisfy.
The straw that broke me came when I was studying for ACLS and some concepts I had to read over and over because they felt foreign to me.
Others may disagree but I feel like NP school does not do enough or teach enough. The education is sub-par and even PA school is better.

Anyway, I made the decision last night that I have to do this or I will regret it forever.

Looked at my transcripts this morning. I am this year 10 years out of undergrad (WOW). I did okay. I made mostly As and Bs and maybe a C in physics, chem and orgo. Maybe a C in a core bio class - cellular and organ physio - C+ (sigh) My cumulative GPA for 1st degree (Biology) was 3.25. Went to nursing school at the same college so my undergrad total GPA after nursing school was 3.82
1) Does that make a difference? The 3.2 for my bio degree.

I have taken all prereqs except for Biochemistry.
2) How can I do that? Do I have to enroll at a University for that? Looked at a local communitg collegw here in New Haven and I believe I saw a biochem class but don't know if that'll count against me.

3) What can I expect my timeline to be?
I obviously want to get in ASAP because the thought of it excites me so much.
Should I shoot for a 2019 or 2020 matriculation?
Can I take the MCATs this year or get my biochem out of the way this yr and apply next year to get in for 2020.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Any other tips and suggestions welcome.

Hi Mosaakin:

Make sure you apply to both DO and MD schools; you can take additional science classes at the University, community college and online (as long as the university is regionally accredited); very few med schools will look down upon taking science classes online. The classes that require labs should be taken at brick/mortar locations. University of New England has great science classes online (Genetics, Biochemistry, etc.), Harvard Extension and UC Berkeley Extension. They are pricey but they are great investments.

A great place to do your Biochem is Iowa State University online - they have a Principles of Biochemistry class (easy) and they also have a 2-semester Biochemistry class online which will delve a little further into the subject. The classes are not cheap, they are about $1000 each but you can make partial payments. I loved the two semester Biochem classes although Principles of Biochemistry will teach you all you need to know for the MCAT.

For the MCAT I would consider Berkeley Review - it's thorough and has lots of practice, I would also recommend the 101 problems from ExamKrackers for each subject for when you are done with content review and of course buy all the practice stuff from AAMC itself.

Good luck!

Get a great MCAT score and I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how many invites for interview you will get for either MD or DO schools.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Others may disagree but I feel like NP school does not do enough or teach enough. The education is sub-par and even PA school is better.

No one on this site would disagree with this. Not sure how I feel about “even PA school”. It’s generally much more scientifically rigorous than APRN programs.

Matriculating in 2019 means you take the MCAT within the next 2-4 months and apply June 2018 which is not likely to happen.

You absolutely should take bio chemistry before thinking about tackling the MCAT. Get into the most rigorous bio chemistry course you can find as a first step. Then start studying for the MCAT. You can take it next spring and apply June 2019.

 

[curbsideconsult]

I made mostly As and Bs and maybe a C in physics, chem and orgo. Maybe a C in a core bio class - cellular and organ physio - C+ (sigh)

I think you're going to have to retake those classes you got Cs in. Having 1 or 2 Cs doesn't hurt if on the whole your application is great, but it looks like you got Cs for all of chem, orgo, and physics? That's 6 semesters of Cs. Perhaps I'm reading what you wrote incorrectly. So if you do need to take all those classes over again, you might as well take them, in addition to biochemistry, in person.

Obviously, you can take the MCAT whenever you want, but like Mt Kilimanjaro said, you might want to take biochemistry before you take the MCAT.

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Thank you so mucb for the advice xerxesc, Mt Kilimanjaro, curbsideconsult

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

I think you're going to have to retake those classes you got Cs in. Having 1 or 2 Cs doesn't hurt if on the whole your application is great, but it looks like you got Cs for all of chem, orgo, and physics? That's 6 semesters of Cs. Perhaps I'm reading what you wrote incorrectly. So if you do need to take all those classes over again, you might as well take them, in addition to biochemistry, in person.

Obviously, you can take the MCAT whenever you want, but like Mt Kilimanjaro said, you might want to take biochemistry before you take the MCAT.

Oh oops. I meant I got a C in one of those classes just can't remember which. I think it was Chem 1 lab

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hi all,
New to this network.
I know there are many (very many) threads of Non-trad students.
Wanted some advice.

Background:
Currently an NP. I have been in my 1st and only NP job for 5 years. 30 years old, single, no children.
Med school has always been at the back of my mind but I guess self-doubt made me think I didn't have it in me. I've always had that drive... My never-ending quest for knowlegde that I know only med school can satisfy.
The straw that broke me came when I was studying for ACLS and some concepts I had to read over and over because they felt foreign to me.
Others may disagree but I feel like NP school does not do enough or teach enough. The education is sub-par and even PA school is better.

Anyway, I made the decision last night that I have to do this or I will regret it forever.

Looked at my transcripts this morning. I am this year 10 years out of undergrad (WOW). I did okay. I made mostly As and Bs and maybe a C in physics, chem and orgo. Maybe a C in a core bio class - cellular and organ physio - C+ (sigh) My cumulative GPA for 1st degree (Biology) was 3.25. Went to nursing school at the same college so my undergrad total GPA after nursing school was 3.82
1) Does that make a difference? The 3.2 for my bio degree.

I have taken all prereqs except for Biochemistry.
2) How can I do that? Do I have to enroll at a University for that? Looked at a local communitg collegw here in New Haven and I believe I saw a biochem class but don't know if that'll count against me.

3) What can I expect my timeline to be?
I obviously want to get in ASAP because the thought of it excites me so much.
Should I shoot for a 2019 or 2020 matriculation?
Can I take the MCATs this year or get my biochem out of the way this yr and apply next year to get in for 2020.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Any other tips and suggestions welcome.

Since Nursing now counts as a science class your GPA won't be that bad. Take biochem, get some letters, and of course, the MCAT which will be the biggest barrier. You are too late for this cycle (17-18), but 18-19 is a possibility although tough. Medicine apply's a year ahead of time. Application opens in June. I would think a 2020 start is more likely, but you might be able to get in for class of 2023 if you work real hard this summer. Just make sure you are ready for the MCAT before you take it. I highly suggest a prep course and 3 months studying before.

 

[squeegeebeckenheim]

Seems like you're dead-set on an MD, but just throwing this out there for consideration: have you considered a clinical nursing doctorate to further your education? I did my Epi training at Columbia and our Nursing School now requires a DNP to become an APRN; plus a 1 yr clinical residency. It would take 6 semesters to complete and you could matriculate by 2019. (nursing.columbia.edu/academics/academic-programs/doctoral-programs/doctor-nursing-practice) Nationally, the trend in Nursing education is shifting to educate at a more advanced level and I imagine other universities will follow in Columbia's footsteps in years to come - with an MSN you'll only be able to do General Nursing (RN), for a specialty you need doctorate + residency. Still differs quite a bit from MD programs, as the goal of nursing is always patient care and the DNP educates in nursing research too, whereas MD's are inherently more scientific degrees like PhD's. So think carefully about what you want - not just what letters behind your name, but imagine yourself in the varying roles.

I am sure you'll succeed at anything you put your mind to - you seem determined and clearly have a lot of healthcare experience.

In my personal life experiences, as a patient pre and post renal transplant, personally I very much valued the care I received from RN's/NP's and med techs. Of course I valued the work of the internal surgeon (but barely saw him) as well as my amazing Nephrologist who saved my life!

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Seems like you're dead-set on an MD, but just throwing this out there for consideration: have you considered a clinical nursing doctorate to further your education? I did my Epi training at Columbia and our Nursing School now requires a DNP to become an APRN; plus a 1 yr clinical residency. It would take 6 semesters to complete and you could matriculate by 2019. (nursing.columbia.edu/academics/academic-programs/doctoral-programs/doctor-nursing-practice) Nationally, the trend in Nursing education is shifting to educate at a more advanced level and I imagine other universities will follow in Columbia's footsteps in years to come - with an MSN you'll only be able to do General Nursing (RN), for a specialty you need doctorate + residency. Still differs quite a bit from MD programs, as the goal of nursing is always patient care and the DNP educates in nursing research too, whereas MD's are inherently more scientific degrees like PhD's. So think carefully about what you want - not just what letters behind your name, but imagine yourself in the varying roles.

I am sure you'll succeed at anything you put your mind to - you seem determined and clearly have a lot of healthcare experience.

In my personal life experiences, as a patient pre and post renal transplant, personally I very much valued the care I received from RN's/NP's and med techs. Of course I valued the work of the internal surgeon (but barely saw him) as well as my amazing Nephrologist who saved my life!

Yea, I am dead set on MD/DO but its not about the letters. I am really looking for the knowledge.
I've never considered DNP mostly because I'm not sure it'll fulfil the need I'm looking for even if it is clinical. Plus nursing is so fragmented (could be a good thing in terms of options) and I don't think I want to continue in that path honestly. I do sense that they can be quite administration/policy based which does not interest me (right now).

Thank you for your input, really appreciate it.

 

[siliso]

I think it’s honorable that you want to get the strongest possible training for your desired clinical role and I suspect that most physicians who’d be considering you for admission would think same.

 

[niko327]

Hi all,
New to this network.
I know there are many (very many) threads of Non-trad students.
Wanted some advice.

Background:
Currently an NP. I have been in my 1st and only NP job for 5 years. 30 years old, single, no children.
Med school has always been at the back of my mind but I guess self-doubt made me think I didn't have it in me. I've always had that drive... My never-ending quest for knowlegde that I know only med school can satisfy.
The straw that broke me came when I was studying for ACLS and some concepts I had to read over and over because they felt foreign to me.
Others may disagree but I feel like NP school does not do enough or teach enough. The education is sub-par and even PA school is better.

Anyway, I made the decision last night that I have to do this or I will regret it forever.

Looked at my transcripts this morning. I am this year 10 years out of undergrad (WOW). I did okay. I made mostly As and Bs and maybe a C in physics, chem and orgo. Maybe a C in a core bio class - cellular and organ physio - C+ (sigh) My cumulative GPA for 1st degree (Biology) was 3.25. Went to nursing school at the same college so my undergrad total GPA after nursing school was 3.82
1) Does that make a difference? The 3.2 for my bio degree.

I have taken all prereqs except for Biochemistry.
2) How can I do that? Do I have to enroll at a University for that? Looked at a local communitg collegw here in New Haven and I believe I saw a biochem class but don't know if that'll count against me.

3) What can I expect my timeline to be?

I obviously want to get in ASAP because the thought of it excites me so much.
Should I shoot for a 2019 or 2020 matriculation?
Can I take the MCATs this year or get my biochem out of the way this yr and apply next year to get in for 2020.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Any other tips and suggestions welcome.

Hey HopefulNPMD,
I was in a similar boat as you coming from the PA world. I have heard similar concern from other NPs I've worked with over the years, some asking for advice about going to DO school. The single best advice I can offer you is to get yourself in touch with someone at the admissions office of a prospective school. Try and get in and talk with them, transcripts in hand and ask them about what they'd need to see from you to make yourself a viable candidate. It's something that can be done with a little bit of persistence. Then be prepared to spend a year or two getting yourself to a place where your coursework is acceptable and you can succeed on the MCAT. I like that you are ready to get going, but keep in mind that the MCAT is a formidable challenge and not something that you can really knock out quickly. You need to perform on that test, if you don't they will not consider you much further. The med school adcoms want to know if you're going to hack it during didactics. My PA credential on its own did not really reassure the adcoms that I could succeed in medical school, despite my excellent performance in that program. It was my recent coursework and MCAT score were the things that gave them the reassurance they needed to accept me. Certainly, they liked the fact that I was a bit of a novelty, bringing years of experience to the table. At the same time, they wanted to make sure that I was trainable in light of all my experience (kind of a double edged sword). In the end, my PA degree was only useful in so far as it made me stand out a bit from the other prospective applicants as someone who understands what its like to work as a professional. Your NP degree will likely be treated similarly. Be prepared to work for this goal if you really want it. The last thing I want to tell you is that you are going to work so much harder than you think. I knew this med school stuff was going to be really really hard, but it was still significantly harder than I anticipated. It will be orders of magnitude more difficult than anything you've done before, academically, but if you love it, you CAN do it.

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Hey HopefulNPMD,
I was in a similar boat as you coming from the PA world. I have heard similar concern from other NPs I've worked with over the years, some asking for advice about going to DO school. The single best advice I can offer you is to get yourself in touch with someone at the admissions office of a prospective school. Try and get in and talk with them, transcripts in hand and ask them about what they'd need to see from you to make yourself a viable candidate. It's something that can be done with a little bit of persistence. Then be prepared to spend a year or two getting yourself to a place where your coursework is acceptable and you can succeed on the MCAT. I like that you are ready to get going, but keep in mind that the MCAT is a formidable challenge and not something that you can really knock out quickly. You need to perform on that test, if you don't they will not consider you much further. The med school adcoms want to know if you're going to hack it during didactics. My PA credential on its own did not really reassure the adcoms that I could succeed in medical school, despite my excellent performance in that program. It was my recent coursework and MCAT score were the things that gave them the reassurance they needed to accept me. Certainly, they liked the fact that I was a bit of a novelty, bringing years of experience to the table. At the same time, they wanted to make sure that I was trainable in light of all my experience (kind of a double edged sword). In the end, my PA degree was only useful in so far as it made me stand out a bit from the other prospective applicants as someone who understands what its like to work as a professional. Your NP degree will likely be treated similarly. Be prepared to work for this goal if you really want it. The last thing I want to tell you is that you are going to work so much harder than you think. I knew this med school stuff was going to be really really hard, but it was still significantly harder than I anticipated. It will be orders of magnitude more difficult than anything you've done before, academically, but if you love it, you CAN do it.

Thank you!!

 

[Magus5454]

Only thing I will reiterate on is take biochem before the MCAT

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Me again!

Was planning to take Biochem this summer at a state school but class is full - only 12 spots (registered way before class opened but prof took so long to reply my email with my transcripts to review).
Anyway, now looking at Community college here. I know they're not favorable but would it be okay?
There is a biochem class at Yale but its $4000 and my job does not do tuition reimbursement. I could try to take out a loan but would like to avoid it at the point.

I know online classes are even more unfavorable than CC courses for prereqs.

Any suggestions?

Just go for the CC or bite the bullet and pay the 4k at Yale.

Thanks!

 

[curbsideconsult]

Me again!

Was planning to take Biochem this summer at a state school but class is full - only 12 spots (registered way before class opened but prof took so long to reply my email with my transcripts to review).
Anyway, now looking at Community college here. I know they're not favorable but would it be okay?
There is a biochem class at Yale but its $4000 and my job does not do tuition reimbursement. I could try to take out a loan but would like to avoid it at the point.

I know online classes are even more unfavorable than CC courses for prereqs.

Any suggestions?

Just go for the CC or bite the bullet and pay the 4k at Yale.

Thanks!

CC should be fine, especially considering that one class at Yale is $4000(?!!).

 

[Brawndo2016]

Me again!

Was planning to take Biochem this summer at a state school but class is full - only 12 spots (registered way before class opened but prof took so long to reply my email with my transcripts to review).
Anyway, now looking at Community college here. I know they're not favorable but would it be okay?
There is a biochem class at Yale but its $4000 and my job does not do tuition reimbursement. I could try to take out a loan but would like to avoid it at the point.

I know online classes are even more unfavorable than CC courses for prereqs.

Any suggestions?

Just go for the CC or bite the bullet and pay the 4k at Yale.

Thanks!

My experience only, but the whole CC thing is blown out of proportion. Especially when your current occupation is taken into account. I am pretty non trad and had CC pre-reqs from 1990 that were completely acceptable. This even includes biology. I feel that my years of PA service overshadowed That and actually opened the door for interviews like crazy. I went on 8, got accepted to 6 and this was an allopathic/osteopathic mix. I chose an allopathic acceptance for reasons of convenience but would have gone DO at the drop of a hat. You have life experience, that will most certainly open doors and the rest of it is up to you to lose. Keep your 4 grand. The interview trail is costly.

 

[popopopop]

You can take biochem at a CC?

 

[Magus5454]

You can take biochem at a CC?

Mine offered organic (great class btw) but not biochem

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

You can take biochem at a CC?

Yea, a CC here offers it.

CC should be fine, especially considering that one class at Yale is $4000(?!!).

Right?!! I was stunned at that price tag... Looked it up multiple times just to be sure...

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

My experience only, but the whole CC thing is blown out of proportion. Especially when your current occupation is taken into account. I am pretty non trad and had CC pre-reqs from 1990 that were completely acceptable. This even includes biology. I feel that my years of PA service overshadowed That and actually opened the door for interviews like crazy. I went on 8, got accepted to 6 and this was an allopathic/osteopathic mix. I chose an allopathic acceptance for reasons of convenience but would have gone DO at the drop of a hat. You have life experience, that will most certainly open doors and the rest of it is up to you to lose. Keep your 4 grand. The interview trail is costly.

Thanks!!
And congrats on your success!!!

 

[popopopop]

Make absolutely sure it's the biochem that has organic chem as a pre-req. There are intro biochem classes out there that may not satisfy certain medschools' requirements or won't prepare you for the mcat.

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Make absolutely sure it's the biochem that has organic chem as a pre-req. There are intro biochem classes out there that may not satisfy certain medschools' requirements or won't prepare you for the mcat.

Thanks, I'll make sure to check.

 

[humblethinker]

your background knowledge as a previous clinician will help during your studying....why not try to self study and take the Kaplan Biochemistry focused option online...take some practice tests and see how you are scoring (specifically in Chem/Phys and Bio/Biochem sections) before committing time and money into a formal course at a university. Here is the link for the Kaplan option.... Foundations of Biochemistry

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

your background knowledge as a previous clinician will help during your studying....why not try to self study and take the Kaplan Biochemistry focused option online...take some practice tests and see how you are scoring (specifically in Chem/Phys and Bio/Biochem sections) before committing time and money into a formal course at a university. Here is the link for the Kaplan option.... Foundations of Biochemistry

I am planning to take a practice test to see where I stand right now but some schools do require Biochem as a prereq so I mignt as well take it and get it done.
Thanks.

 

[NITRAS]

What do you want to do with your life?

My opinion, but if you are not happy with your jobs as a nurse practitioner, what makes you think being an MD will make you satisfied? An NP with 5 years of clinical work should prepare you better than medicals school will. Medical school isn't some lofty knowledge center, its a perquisite for a profession that you mostly do already.

Before you dedicate +7 years and untold amount of money/lost income, I'd have a more hashed out plan/goal than you have right now. Just my opinion.