NPs can now do dermatology residencies

[Rabbit Hole]

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Warning: If you have problems with HTN, alcoholism, or general internet rage, Please be advised that the following may exacerbate your condition. I'm quoting this from another thread:

We have a two-tiered system. This is not what they want. They want to be the top tier.

Don't believe me?

I read it from them.

http://www.aanp.org/AANPCMS2/Publications/PositionStatementsPapers/MLP.htm

I just loooooveeee how these militants create their own organizations, degrees, titles, publications out of thin air. And then use their own **** for citation. Who the hell is regulating these people!? Did they create their own regulatory board too? I wouldn't be surprised.

EDIT:
I went to their website (American Academy of Nurse Practitioners) to check out their Position Statements/Papers, here are the direct links for those who are motivationally disabled:

• Discussion Paper: Doctor of Nursing Practice
• Nurse Practitioner Cost-Effectiveness
• Standards of Practice for Nurse Practitioners
• Scope of Practice for Nurse Practitioners
• Position Statement on Nurse Practitioner Curriculum
• Standards for Nurse Practitioners Practice in Retail-based Clinics
• Quality of Nurse Practitioner Practice
• Position Statement on Nurse Practitioner Prescriptive Privilege
• Use of Terms Such as Mid-Level Provider and Physician Extender
• AANP 2008 Annual Report

That's right, straight from the horses mouth. Please make note of the citations (references) they use...
That's not all folks. For those of you who don't believe they are advertising and legislating their way into primary care:
Legislation and Practice
Marketing and Propaganda Relations

 

[FlowRate]

Warning: If you have problems with HTN, alcoholism, or general internet rage, Please be advised that the following may exacerbate your condition. I'm quoting this from another thread:



I just loooooveeee how these militants create their own organizations, degrees, titles, publications out of thin air. And then use their own **** for citation. Who the hell is regulating these people!? Did they create their own regulatory board too? I wouldn't be surprised.

This is Democrat/Obama-administration style of doublethink/propaganda. A bit harder to detect than the Republican/Bush style, because you have to know what you're talking about -- which is why all of us here see right through it.

 

[NYRN]

Warning: If you have problems with HTN, alcoholism, or general internet rage, Please be advised that the following may exacerbate your condition. I'm quoting this from another thread:



I just loooooveeee how these militants create their own organizations, degrees, titles, publications out of thin air. And then use their own **** for citation. Who the hell is regulating these people!? Did they create their own regulatory board too? I wouldn't be surprised.

EDIT:
I went to their website (American Academy of Nurse Practitioners) to check out their Position Statements/Papers, here are the direct links for those who are motivationally disabled:

• Discussion Paper: Doctor of Nursing Practice
• Nurse Practitioner Cost-Effectiveness
• Standards of Practice for Nurse Practitioners
• Scope of Practice for Nurse Practitioners
• Position Statement on Nurse Practitioner Curriculum
• Standards for Nurse Practitioners Practice in Retail-based Clinics
• Quality of Nurse Practitioner Practice
• Position Statement on Nurse Practitioner Prescriptive Privilege
• Use of Terms Such as Mid-Level Provider and Physician Extender
• AANP 2008 Annual Report

That's right, straight from the horses mouth. Please make note of the citations (references) they use...
That's not all folks. For those of you who don't believe they are advertising and legislating their way into primary care:
Legislation and Practice
Marketing and Propaganda Relations

I think you are taking this out of context. If you want your argument heard, you have to understand what they are talking about or you will get nowhere. I read some of these links, and I did not see anywhere that the DNP role was described as a degree that is meant to expand the scope of practice. If you can find that anywhere on any of the above links correct me. If you have been following the previous discussions, you will know that I am not talking about whatever radical groups out there that are pushing for 100% independance. What I got out of the DNP role explained here, is that the AANP is encouraging the DNP degree in order to bring the educational standard up to other clinicians that require a doctorate degree. Even physical therapists and pharmacists have doctoral degrees. I'm pretty sure its the same thing as the PA groups pushing for a masters as a minimum degree or the nursing groups pushing for a bachelors to be the minimum.

As far as the use of term, as long as the scope of practice doesn't change who cares? NP's have been licensed independent practitioners for years. All that means is that they work under thier own license, not yours. It did not say anything on there about breaking collaboration agreements with physicians.

If you are against NP's as a general rule, that is one thing. If you are against the radical groups that are pushing for 100% independant practice that is another.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Who exactly are these radical groups? I mean exactly - post their websites here because I would like to look into them. I don't have enough information yet to decide whether the level of involvement of the AANP is that of regulators or enablers. I'm looking into the the American Association of Colleges of Nursing at the moment and will post some info later.

EDIT:
I present to you.. the mother lode:

American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN)

• The Doctor of Nursing Practice - A Report on Progress
• Doctor of Nursing Practice Talking Points
• Understanding the Doctor of Nursing Practice: Evolution, Perceived Benefits and Challenges
• Task Force on the Future of the Research-Focused Doctorate (PhD in Nursing)
• AACN's Review of the New Healthcare Reform Law
• AACN 2010 Federal Policy Agenda

... and that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

 

[Maybeknot]

Thanks, NYRN. I will work to incorporate your recommendations.

 

[NurseKJ]

NYRN, if you have a chance, can you take a look at the website I'm working on to inform the general public about the DNP issue? I want to make it completely factual and fair, but obviously, I don't know much about the details of nursing education and training.

www.no-shortcuts.org

If I may, I think in your overview you should define the terms "doctor of medicine" , "doctor of osteo-med" and "physician". I know I've had patients confused by MD vs DO. I think the public in general, and even the politicians supporting independent NP practice, really have no idea why they call their heathcare provider, "doctor". To the public, "doctor" means the person who comes in and tells them what Rx to take and what disease they have, ect, despite what initials are behind their name (MD/DO/PA/NP/DNP/CRNA/CNM- you get the point). Just like, to most people, a "nurse" is the person who comes in and takes their vital signs, ect, whether or not they are actually a nurse or an MA or CNA, ect. I think we need to educate the public on those aspects.


I am also providing this link... http://www.acnpweb.org/files/public/UCSF_Chart_2007.pdf It's from 2007, but it's the most recent one I can find.

I have posted it before (i don't remember which thread), but am giving it again, because I think it's important to remember that NP independent practice is not a new thing. For instance, in Maine, NP can practice independently (I believe it specifies primary care on the BON)- but they must first work for a specified number of years under supervision before they are allowed independence. Use that info as you see fit, but I just thought you should have all the facts.

Oh, and those who use an NP as a primary care provider in the states without independent NP practice need to understand that there is a "supervising" physician, for what it's worth. To avoid comments like, "well I've been seeing my NP/PA for years; he/she is great. He/she has been taking care of me by himself/herself for years, why not have independence and get paid better for it", ect.

I also think that reaching out to the conservative media might be beneficial? To me, it seems the liberal media is giving positive attention to NP independent practice because they are in support of the health care reform? (IMHO, at best).

Please know I am PRO-midlevel-- I see nothing wrong with the title midlevel provider. I am pro-NP and pro-PA. I am also pro-physician.
I hope this helps you... for the record, I have contacted my BON about these issues. I am watching, and waiting... hoping to have a job when I graduate... just like you all 🙁😱

 

[starbuckscoffee]

Great post Nurse KJ, and thanks for the chart.

If I may, I think in your overview you should define the terms "doctor of medicine" , "doctor of osteo-med" and "physician". I know I've had patients confused by MD vs DO. I think the public in general, and even the politicians supporting independent NP practice, really have no idea why they call their heathcare provider, "doctor". To the public, "doctor" means the person who comes in and tells them what Rx to take and what disease they have, ect, despite what initials are behind their name (MD/DO/PA/NP/DNP/CRNA/CNM- you get the point). Just like, to most people, a "nurse" is the person who comes in and takes their vital signs, ect, whether or not they are actually a nurse or an MA or CNA, ect. I think we need to educate the public on those aspects.


I am also providing this link... http://www.acnpweb.org/files/public/UCSF_Chart_2007.pdf It's from 2007, but it's the most recent one I can find.

I have posted it before (i don't remember which thread), but am giving it again, because I think it's important to remember that NP independent practice is not a new thing. For instance, in Maine, NP can practice independently (I believe it specifies primary care on the BON)- but they must first work for a specified number of years under supervision before they are allowed independence. Use that info as you see fit, but I just thought you should have all the facts.

Oh, and those who use an NP as a primary care provider in the states without independent NP practice need to understand that there is a "supervising" physician, for what it's worth. To avoid comments like, "well I've been seeing my NP/PA for years; he/she is great. He/she has been taking care of me by himself/herself for years, why not have independence and get paid better for it", ect.

I also think that reaching out to the conservative media might be beneficial? To me, it seems the liberal media is giving positive attention to NP independent practice because they are in support of the health care reform? (IMHO, at best).

Please know I am PRO-midlevel-- I see nothing wrong with the title midlevel provider. I am pro-NP and pro-PA. I am also pro-physician.
I hope this helps you... for the record, I have contacted my BON about these issues. I am watching, and waiting... hoping to have a job when I graduate... just like you all 🙁😱

 

[ShyRem]

I think there is a BIG difference between the pharmacist doctor, the chiropractor doctor, the veterinarian doctor, the physical therapist doctor, and the human medical doctor.

When I go to the human physician's office, I expect anyone I call "doctor" to have a medical doctor's degree and medical doctor's license. I expect they will have gone to medical school and done a medical residency. I expect them to have a degree of MD or DO.

Likewise, when I go to the pharmacy and call someone "doctor" I expect them to have a pharmD degree. I do NOT expect them to have a MD or DO degree. I expect my veterinarian to have a veterinarian doctoral degree (sorry, don't know what that short listing is). I expect a "doctor" at my physical therapy place to have a PhD. I expect my college professors I call "doctor" to have a PhD degree, certainly not a MD or DO.

So the use of "doctor" is all in context. If I'm at my human medical provider's office and they say "I'm Dr. so and so" then I darn well expect them to be a MD or DO. Anything else is misleading and misrepresentation by omission of the clarification of the term "doctor".

 

[NYRN]

I don't advocate confusing the patient no matter what the title is. Patients should know who is taking care of them. When any member of the healthcare team approaches a patient they should identify themself. Patients should know if they are talking to an RN or a nursing assistant, an NP/PA or a physician, or if the physician is a resident or attending. I'll tell you that patients get upset if they are talking to a resident or med student and they think they ate talking to the attending. Just as an NP should clearly identify his/her role to the patient, the med students or PA's should correct the patient if they are called doctor. I have seen that many times, I've never seen an NP give the patient the impression that they are a physician, and if I did, I would make sure they clarified to the pt what thier title is.

 

[NYRN]

Double post

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I hate to say this, but any plan to limit NP practice via legislation is IMHO doomed to failure for several reasons.

1. NP's already have full practice rights in several states. Federal legislation preventing this would create havoc in those states that have already allowed it. "Grandfathering" states that have done so is a messy solution.

2. This will come across as physicians protecting their turf. No amount of trying to hide behind "patient safety" or "quality of care" is going to deceive anyone.

3. The argument that there will not be enough PCP's for all the new insured patients, whether true or not, will make legislatures allow NP's to practice independently.

However, this does not mean that there is nothing to do:

1. Instead, define what the "practice of medicine" is. Then simply declare that licensing those that practice medicine falls under the umbrella of the BOM, regardless of the person's prior training. This would allow a BOM to define a minimum amount of practice experience before an NP could practice independently, or otherwise set rules.

2. Require "truth in advertising" -- that people need to declare clearly what their training is. This might include limiting the title "Doctor" in the clinical setting to those with MD/DO/MBBS etc degrees who have completed an ACGME / AOA residency.

Trying to pust to actually prevent practice rights for NP's is likely to fail, might as well focus on what you can realistically achieve.

1. I don't know how this would work. They are nurse practitioners who have a license to "practice nursing", right?. I don't see how they could fall under the BOM umbrella.

2. I believe the AMA is working on a Truth in Advertising campaign. Winged Scapula posted about it here.

AMA Political Action Committee

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

1. I don't know how this would work. They are nurse practitioners who have a license to "practice nursing", right?. I don't see how they could fall under the BOM umbrella.

2. I believe the AMA is working on a Truth in Advertising campaign. Winged Scapula posted about it here.

AMA Political Action Committee

You would need to define what constitutes practicing medicine in the state code of laws. Or (as is the case in my state) define what is included in the practice of nursing. For example, the practice of chiropractic is described thus: "Chiropractic practice" is defined as the spinal analysis of any interference with normal nerve transmission and expression, and by adjustment to the articulations of the vertebral column and its immediate articulations for the restoration and maintenance of health and the normal regimen and rehabilitation of the patient without the use of drugs or surgery. This offers to prohibitions on chiropractors - no drugs or surgery.

The law is more explicit when it comes to ODs:

(1) when prescribing oral and topically applied medications, an optometrist is limited to these oral pharmaceutical agents: antihistamines, antimicrobial, antiglaucoma, over-the-counter drugs, and analgesics for the treatment of ocular and ocular adnexal eye disease. An optometrist may only prescribe these medications for the treatment of ocular and ocular adnexal eye disease;

(2) when prescribing medications for the treatment of ocular and ocular adnexal disease, documentation in the patient's chart and appropriate consultations and referrals must be in accordance with the standard of care provided for in Section 40-37-310(E);

(3) when prescribing analgesics, the prescription must be limited to a seven-day supply;

(4) when prescribing topical steroids, if after twenty-one days of treatment it is necessary to continue this medication, the optometrist shall communicate and collaborate with an ophthalmologist;

(5) no medications may be given by injection or intravenously.

(D) An optometrist is prohibited from performing surgery. For purposes of this section surgery includes, but is not limited to, an invasive procedure using instruments that require closure by suturing, clamping, or other similar devices or a procedure in which the presence or assistance of a nurse anesthetist or an anesthesiologist is required. An optometrist is also prohibited from performing laser surgery. However, nothing in this section or any other provision of law may be construed to prohibit an optometrist from removing superficial ocular and ocular adnexal foreign bodies; removal of other foreign bodies must be referred to an ophthalmologist.

There is a more general definition for NPs...

(41) "Nurse Practitioner" or "NP" means a registered nurse who has completed an advanced formal education program at the master's level acceptable to the board, and who demonstrates advanced knowledge and skill in assessment and management of physical and psychosocial health, illness status of persons, families, and groups. Nurse practitioners who perform delegated medical acts must have a supervising physician or dentist who is readily available for consultation and shall operate within the approved written protocols. There are more restriction on the practice of "advanced nursing" which includes CRNAs, NPs, midwives and so on. Link is here http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t40c033.htm

I'd call that a decent template for other states.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

You would need to define what constitutes practicing medicine in the state code of laws. Or (as is the case in my state) define what is included in the practice of nursing.

(41) "Nurse Practitioner" or "NP" means a registered nurse who has completed an advanced formal education program at the master's level acceptable to the board, and who demonstrates advanced knowledge and skill in assessment and management of physical and psychosocial health, illness status of persons, families, and groups. Nurse practitioners who perform delegated medical acts must have a supervising physician or dentist who is readily available for consultation and shall operate within the approved written protocols. There are more restriction on the practice of "advanced nursing" which includes CRNAs, NPs, midwives and so on. Link is here http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t40c033.htm

I'd call that a decent template for other states.

VA Hopeful Dr, that is an excellent template. This looks like some solid stuff that could really help us. Thank you for posting this.

I've been thinking that our efforts need to be more targeted - using 3 avenues:
- Statements/petitions for STATE legislative bodies (i.e. people who can actually do stuff for us)
- Letter/petitions for individuals or hospitals to get some attention on the front lines.
- Prepare letters for organizations who can't really do anything for us, but let them know our concerns so that we're at least on the radar.

Those are just a few ideas. I firmly believe that we go about this in a smart way and not do this propaganda-ish stuff I see all over the AACN website. We practice evidence-based medicine, so let's put together some evidence-based arguments. This may take some time but let's not get discouraged.

Anyone can join the SDN pol.i.tick.ing group. I'm trying to keep things somewhat organized in order to keep track of what's going on. Anyway, I have archived a lot of the articles and publications mentioned in these threads and if anyone wants to download them you can find it there.

As for me, I gotta turn down the internet rage and turn up the studying for a little while. I'll still be around though 🙂

 

[JaggerPlate]

Looks like the momentum is continuing on both sides of the debate. I think we (those looking to put a stop to some of this DNP nonsense) need to keep going and going. Thank you to EVERYONE who is doing their part!!!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

VA Hopeful Dr, that is an excellent template. This looks like some solid stuff that could really help us. Thank you for posting this.

I've been thinking that our efforts need to be more targeted - using 3 avenues:
- Statements/petitions for STATE legislative bodies (i.e. people who can actually do stuff for us)
- Letter/petitions for individuals or hospitals to get some attention on the front lines.
- Prepare letters for organizations who can't really do anything for us, but let them know our concerns so that we're at least on the radar.

Those are just a few ideas. I firmly believe that we go about this in a smart way and not do this propaganda-ish stuff I see all over the AACN website. We practice evidence-based medicine, so let's put together some evidence-based arguments. This may take some time but let's not get discouraged.

Anyone can join the SDN pol.i.tick.ing group. I'm trying to keep things somewhat organized in order to keep track of what's going on. Anyway, I have archived a lot of the articles and publications mentioned in these threads and if anyone wants to download them you can find it there.

As for me, I gotta turn down the internet rage and turn up the studying for a little while. I'll still be around though 🙂

You've overlooking the handful of easy things you can do with respect to the state legislatures.

1 - $$$$ and lots of it. If you donate enough money to a state sen/rep, then you will get access to him/her. If you don't do this (or something like it), you'll never be heard in the first place.

2 - Once you've got someone's attention, you have to state what you want and why you want it. Anecdotes are actually OK here, but be as detailed as you can. "A midlevel in <insert location> missed/delayed/screwed up X diagnosis and here is what happened." Then, counter with a specific example of why medical education would prevent that from happening if an MD/DO had seen said patient. In the same area, you can describe how the patient was when they finally got to an MD vs. how they presented to the midlevel and what should have been done at the initial few visits to prevent things from getting to where they were when you saw the patient.

3 - Get lots of people on your side to testify in front of the state committees. Shouldn't be hard to do if you get the word out early enough and hint at future expansion that could threaten their practices/patients.

Doing all that takes significant time/effort/cash, but that's how I've seen it done with success.

 

[NYRN]

I think we are all in agreement that we are against these DNP's that are parading around on TV wanting equal rights to physicians.

However, I think the MD's are going about this fight the wrong way. Remember, you need to convince the public that independant practice is a bad idea, and that your fight is truly about patient care and not about money. You have to convince Joe Plumber and Suzy Homemaker to vote for representatives that share your views. If you don't have the backing of the public, you will get nowhere fast.

People are becoming more and more familiar with NP's. They come into contact with them in MD offices, urgent care clinics and hospitals. Patients are satisfied with the care they recieve for whatever reason. Remember, nurses come in #1 every year in a poll where people vote for the most honest profession. MD's typically fall about 7 or 8 on that list.

You need to acknowledge to the public that NP's do have an important role in healthcare and that there is no evidence that NP's practicing as they are today, in collaboration with MD's, are dangerous clinicians or provide inferior care.

You need to show people straight up numbers. Remember, these people think that all MD's are living in mansions and driving porshes. Show them a side by side comparison of what it costs to run a primary care practice and pay malpractice insurance compared to the amount of money you bring in.

Show them the amount of money that they paying in insurance premiums every year and how much of that money actually gets paid to MD's.
Patients get a bill from an MD's office for $150 an office visit, and although you may only get paid $14 for that visit, the patient doesn't know that. They look around your waiting room and count $150 x the 8 people waiting and think you just made a cool $1200 in 3 hours.

Give examples of procedures/surgeries/office visits that are high risk/complicated and are things only MD's can do, and how much you are actually getting paid for it.

Tell the public that although MD's are not against NP's and they welcome the collaborative practice. State that through extensive education and training you are in fact the "experts" of medicine and that collaboration rather than independant practice ensures the public that NP care remains safe because NP's can rely on the expertise of the MD.

 

[deleted87716]

Remember, nurses come in #1 every year in a poll where people vote for the most honest profession. MD's typically fall about 7 or 8 on that list.

Try #3, after pharmacists (by one point).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

#7 and #8 are college professors and clergy.

 

[NYRN]

Try #3, after pharmacists (by one point).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

#7 and #8 are college professors and clergy.

MD's don't keep a consistent place on the list every year. My point was there are people out there who distrust docs and trust nurses. All I meant by this was that if you are trying to win over the public and the representitives in government, bashing nurses is not the way to go. It makes no difference what the nurses or MDs think, the public are choosing who they recieve healthcare from and you need to convince them to choose an MD rather than independant DNP's, not make them feel that you are trying to crush the competition in order to leave them no choice but to see an MD.

 

[deleted87716]

MD's don't keep a consistent place on the list every year.

Yeah, they actually do. They've been #3 for the past five years (see the same link).

 

[NYRN]

Yeah, they actually do. They've been #3 for the past five years (see the same link).

I should have been more specific. I do remember a time when MD's did not rank high on the list. If you look at the poll before 2005, there is a section that addresses MD rankings. It says that MD's were only scoring in the 50% range from 1976-1999 but they have been climbing since then, which I think is a great thing. I am not looking for the public to distrust the group most responsible for their care.

The reason I brought it up in the first place is that I think if the public feels that the "big bad MD's" are ganging up on the "poor nurses" your agenda to keep these DNP's pushing for independant practice is going to fail. I didn't mean in any way for it seem like I was bragging that people like nurses better or whatever. If it was taken that way, it was unintentional.

 

[deleted87716]

I didn't mean in any way for it seem like I was bragging that people like nurses better or whatever. If it was taken that way, it was unintentional.

Personally, I think the only reason that nurses and pharmacists are ranked higher than physicians is because neither of them send patients a bill.

As the old saying goes, be careful what you ask for.

 

[NYRN]

Personally, I think the only reason that nurses and pharmacists are ranked higher than physicians is because neither of them send patients a bill.

As the old saying goes, be careful what you ask for.

Your probably right 🙂 Patients are pretty honest with us when talking about MD's. Patients really do respect MD's and they probably value the opinion of their private MD's more than anyone else they know in their lives. Usually when I do hear a pt complain about an MD its because of something the patient actually did, or was non-compliant with, and they are blaming the doctor. Had one of those today 😡

 

[mig26x]

can anybody else watch the video in the original page posted by the OP? did they take it down??

 

[ribelle una]

To NYRN and NurseKJ

Please be very careful what you are saying to these people. Regardless of what you think, you are not experienced as a NP or DNP. You are doing more damage here than good. To speak against your own profession in any negative way is not productive, especially when they are trying to lure you into signing something that supports their complete and utter lack of knowledge with the education/training requirements and scope of practice for DNP/NPs.

 

[DNPgator]

I want to apologize in advance to all my MD and DO colleagues whom I work with and consult with. You are a credit to your profession and the health care community. This is addressed to the younglings preparing to enter the workforce who, like most adolescents, lack a full understanding of the topics they speak of.

I was turned onto this site by a friend and colleague of mine Dr. Debra Shelby. I read all the thoughtless banter and venom spewed by the excessively opinionated and unexpectedly uneducated medical students. I have earned my Doctoral of Nursing Practice degree and the right to be called doctor just as everyone else who earns a doctoral degree. Please study up on the history and meaning of the word "doctor" it would serve the medical profession well for most of you have forgotten or never knew its origin.

I call myself doctor and pursued this educational route, not because of a lack of intelligence or work ethic as many of you have proposed on the blog, but because I love providing care to my patients.

I am not a medical doctor by choice not because I could not hack it. I would invite you all to spend a few months working alongside you RN colleagues in the hospitals before you are so quick to assert your intellectual superiority. Nurses have been providing compassionate, caring, and comprehensive care since before the time that "doctors" were treating the humors and boring holes in skulls to release evil spirits.

I do not try to hide my identity from my patients or try to fool them or mislead them. The insinuation is that everyone wants to be you because you are the standard by which all else should be measured. The arrogance of this concept is beyond reproach. In my opinion, the education that is provided to medical students is substandard because it only focuses on the physical. Mind, spirit, and body cannot be separated. They are intertwined.

Lets call a spade a spade. You don't care about patient safety, if you did then physicians would lobby for every patient to be seen in consultation with a NP. You all care about the title, presitige, and money. NP's are highly educated, well trained, and effective contributors to the health care system with or without physicians. This has been shown in multiple control trials. I will list a few:
Kinnersley et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1043-1048
Mundinger et.al. JAMA 283(1) 59-68
Shum et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1038-1043
Venning et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1048-1053
Ohman et.al. Annals of Family Medicine 6: 14-22

There are many others like these but I only included a few. I would challenge all of you to find one that says otherwise. In primary care of patients, NP's and now DNP's have provided comparable and at times superior care than our physician brethren. Those are the facts. Not opinion as were all of your posts. The truth of the matter is that we are better at caring for people than you. People prefer our services to yours time and time again. There are no studies that show to the contrary. We also do a much better job at educating patients on disease processes than you. This is also not an opinion, but proven in these studies, printed in your journals. Doctor comes from the latin docere which means to teach. As a profession you get a failing grade. The days of dictating care to patients and getting complience because you are the alwighty doctor are over!!! Patients are more educated than ever and demand to be treated with respect. If you are all so brilliant as it seems you think you are, maybe you could find a way to teach each other how to educate your patients in terms they can understand. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!! Join the battle for better healthcare and quit worrying about your bank accounts. No one cares when we treat the indigent, underserved, and rural areas without physician supervision but you get your panties in a wad when we say we don't need you to take 70% of what we earn and put it in your pockets despite not doing a damn thing to treat a patient.

I am not claiming, nor do I want to be a surgeon, cardiologist, endocrinologist, or any one of the many specialists who provide comprehensive care to moderate and high acuity patients. I and most other NP's and DNP's know when a patient walks in the door if their problems need referral to more specialized not primary care. I specialize in dermatology and you better believe I can out diagnose, treat, and care for my patients than any of you students. You haven't been around long enough to earn an opinion on this topic.

 

[goosew]

To NYRN and NurseKJ

Please be very careful what you are saying to these people. Regardless of what you think, you are not experienced as a NP or DNP. You are doing more damage here than good. To speak against your own profession in any negative way is not productive, especially when they are trying to lure you into signing something that supports their complete and utter lack of knowledge with the education/training requirements and scope of practice for DNP/NPs.

>>ducks and covers<<

I think there's enuf links, information in this thread that we DO understand what a DNP education/training and (alleged) scope of practice is trying to accomplish.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I was turned onto this site by a friend and colleague of mine Dr. Debra Shelby. I read all the thoughtless banter and venom spewed by the excessively opinionated and unexpectedly uneducated medical students. I have earned my Doctoral of Nursing Practice degree and the right to be called doctor just as everyone else who earns a doctoral degree. Please study up on the history and meaning of the word "doctor" it would serve the medical profession well for most of you have forgotten or never knew its origin.

I call myself doctor and pursued this educational route, not because of a lack of intelligence or work ethic as many of you have proposed on the blog, but because I love providing care to my patients.

I am not a medical doctor by choice not because I could not hack it. I would invite you all to spend a few months working alongside you RN colleagues in the hospitals before you are so quick to assert your intellectual superiority. Nurses have been providing compassionate, caring, and comprehensive care since before the time that "doctors" were treating the humors and boring holes in skulls to release evil spirits.

I do not try to hide my identity from my patients or try to fool them or mislead them. The insinuation is that everyone wants to be you because you are the standard by which all else should be measured. The arrogance of this concept is beyond reproach. In my opinion, the education that is provided to medical students is substandard because it only focuses on the physical. Mind, spirit, and body cannot be separated. They are intertwined.

Lets call a spade a spade. You don't care about patient safety, if you did then physicians would lobby for every patient to be seen in consultation with a NP. You all care about the title, presitige, and money. NP's are highly educated, well trained, and effective contributors to the health care system with or without physicians. This has been shown in multiple control trials. I will list a few:
Kinnersley et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1043-1048
Mundinger et.al. JAMA 283(1) 59-68
Shum et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1038-1043
Venning et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1048-1053
Ohman et.al. Annals of Family Medicine 6: 14-22

There are many others like these but I only included a few. I would challenge all of you to find one that says otherwise. In primary care of patients, NP's and now DNP's have provided comparable and at times superior care than our physician brethren. Those are the facts. Not opinion as were all of your posts. The truth of the matter is that we are better at caring for people than you people prefer our services to yours time and time again. There are no studies that show to the contrary. We also do a much better job at educating patients on disease processes than you. This is also not an opinion, but proven in these studies, printed in your journals. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!! Join the battle for better healthcare and quit worrying about your bank accounts. No one cares when we treat the indigent, underserved, and rural areas without physician supervision but you get your panties in a wad when we say we don't need you to take 70% of what we earn and put it in your pockets despite not doing a damn thing to treat a patient.

I am not claiming, nor do I want to be a surgeon, cardiologist, endocrinologist, or any one of the many specialists who provide comprehensive care to moderate to high acuity patients. I and most other NP's and DNP's know when a patient walks in the door if their problems need referral to more specialized not primary care. I specialize in dermatology and you better believe I can out diagnose, treat, and care for my patients than any of you students. You haven't been around long enough to earn an opinion.

Actually, there are really no well-done studies that suggest NPs/DNPs have equivalent/superior outcomes compared to board certified attendings. All those studies you cited in your post have been discredited due to major flaws. I don't have time right now, but I'll definitely come back and point out the flaws of those studies when I get back home later tonight (unless someone else beats me to the punch).

It's actually kind of funny that you think someone with less than 10% of the training that physicians get can provide superior care to physicians. It doesn't even make logical sense! Who knew that less education = superior quality of care?

 

[NYRN]

To NYRN and NurseKJ

Please be very careful what you are saying to these people. Regardless of what you think, you are not experienced as a NP or DNP. You are doing more damage here than good. To speak against your own profession in any negative way is not productive, especially when they are trying to lure you into signing something that supports their complete and utter lack of knowledge with the education/training requirements and scope of practice for DNP/NPs.

I don't think that I am speaking against my profession, I am pro mid-level provider, but I'm not in agreement with these DNP's on TV who are trying to replace MD's.

There are many flaws in the system of NP education including those who allow RN's to fast track themselves into NP school without any nursing experience. NP schools should not be accepting students who don't have at least 5 years of acute care experience. I don't think any of the docs are in objection to NP's in general, in fact in my experience, the docs like working with them. In certain fields like surgery, the NP's make the residents life easier since they can take care of issues on the floor while they spend more time in the OR. Its a win/win for everyone. All of the docs I work with who know I am in NP school are encouraging me to go to med school instead. I just can't do it at this point in my life, it would take too long and cost too much money. Like I have said before, I don't need to be the boss, I would be perfectly happy working alongside them, I'm not looking to take over their position. When I explain my reasons for choosing NP over MD at this point, they understand, and say that they are looking foward to working with me when I graduate.

The DNP educational requirements are not standard across the board. Some allow bachelors degree students to enroll and others require at least a masters degree before starting. I mean, how would you feel if you were an inpatient and some new grad DNP (who fast tracked from AS to DNP while working part time) with less than 3 full years of nursing experience working at a doctors office was 100% responsible for your care? This is the type of thing that is going to do us in. Hypothetically, in the future if the DNP was something that only experienced NP's could enroll in, and included the same curriculum that med school does, taking into account the experience and prior NP degree the person has, then I will change my position about allowing NP's to function 100% independantly.
I have worked with residents and med students long enough to know that they really don't know what the role of the RN and NP are. It's not really their fault, they don't address this in med school. When they become residents and work with good nurses and NP's it is then they see the value of our role.

 

[NurseKJ]

To NYRN and NurseKJ

Please be very careful what you are saying to these people. Regardless of what you think, you are not experienced as a NP or DNP. You are doing more damage here than good. To speak against your own profession in any negative way is not productive, especially when they are trying to lure you into signing something that supports their complete and utter lack of knowledge with the education/training requirements and scope of practice for DNP/NPs.

*sigh*. You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar. If you are going to have an intelligent debate (on student doctor network- aimed at physicians, no less), then the facts must be known to both "sides" of the argument (ie, independent practice for NPs is not new, "rural" areas are hard to define, and the public in general, has no idea what each and every initial behind healthprovider's names means). Not sure why that's speaking against the nursing profession? If we let physicians continue to believe that NPs are trying to take over the world, then they will attempt to squash NPs out of existence. (not to say they would be successful at doing so, necessarily). That doesn't benefit anyone.



PS. if you think for one minute that I have "signed" anything, then you are assuming something that is certainly not true. I have contacted my BON "about these issues" does not mean that I contacted them to give a yah or nah opinion. I just want to know what my scope of practice will be if changes take place.

I'm not sure what offense NYRN has caused you, but I just really don't see why you should be so concerned with my remarks. Feel free to gaze at my postings on allnurse.com. I think you will find me more pro-my own profession than you think.

 

[ribelle una]

"I think there's enuf links, information in this thread that we DO understand what a DNP education/training and (alleged) scope of practice is trying to accomplish. "


Of course you do!!! You guys know it all! Great sample size you have. I see you purposely left out the more rigorous programs. Some of the information you took from the sites were out of context and were located on the COLLEGE of NURSING websites. Hope you base your medical diagnoses on more accurate EBP (that's short for evidenced based practice) than you did for this. If you cared to get accurate information, you would have asked the people who developed these programs their intent and not just assume you understand why they were developed.

 

[group_theory]

Please study up on the history and meaning of the word "doctor" it would serve the medical profession well for most of you have forgotten or never knew its origin.

I would wager that you don't know the origin of the word Doctor either but assumed its origin based on its latin roots instead of actually tracing the origin of the word..

If you look up the word Doctor in Oxford's English Dictionary, the standard reference in etymology, the word Doctor has an interesting history (and not as straight forward as you would think)

The word Doctor, in reference to "A doctor of medicine; in popular current use, applied to any medical practitioner. Also, a wizard or medicine-man in a primitive tribe" first appeared in the English language in 1377. Some of Chaucer's writing made reference to Doctor in 1378.

The word Doctor, in reference to teacher or instructor, first appeared in the English language in 1387.

The word Doctor, in reference to the highest degree conferred by a university, first appeared in the English language in 1377 (Doctoures of decres and of diuinitie maistres)

Doctor first appeared in the English language around 1303 in reference to Doctors of the Church, "early &#8216;fathers' distinguished by their eminent learning, so as to have been teachers not only in the Church, but of the Church, and by their heroic sanctity"


So the word "doctor" when applied to the medical profession, has been around for 633 years in the English written language, and its use is just as old as the academic degree.


FYI, the term "nurse" first appeared in 1325.

 

[J1515]

.

 

[NYRN]

The word Doctor, in reference to "A doctor of medicine; in popular current use, applied to any medical practitioner. Also, a wizard or medicine-man in a primitive tribe" first appeared in the English language in 1377. Some of Chaucer's writing made reference to Doctor in 1378.

Hello Mr. Smith, I'm here to give you your meds. Wizard Jones ordered aspirin for you, here you go

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I was turned onto this site by a friend and colleague of mine Dr. Debra Shelby. I read all the thoughtless banter and venom spewed by the excessively opinionated and unexpectedly uneducated medical students. I have earned my Doctoral of Nursing Practice degree and the right to be called doctor just as everyone else who earns a doctoral degree. Please study up on the history and meaning of the word "doctor" it would serve the medical profession well for most of you have forgotten or never knew its origin.

Oh is that right? Tell the good "Doctor" we said 'This page is currently unavailable'.

 

[ribelle una]

Oh is that right? Tell the good "Doctor" we said 'This page is currently unavailable'.

Ah, you mean the nurse who made the video about herself calling herself "doctor" and saying she was the program director of the dermatology residency. Sounds like she got called on it.


.....actually she didn't get called out on anything. The video and powerpoint is down and will be updated with current info. Once again you think you know it all and assume you know what is going on. Sorry boys, you did not win anything.

 

[goosew]

The fact that she had to take it down to be "updated with current info". (eg. NOT the director of the dermatology residency) speaks volumes.

Trying to be something you're not, ain't cool.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Oh is that right? Tell the good "Doctor" we said 'This page is currently unavailable'.

Ah, you mean the nurse who made the video about herself calling herself "doctor" and saying she was the program director of the dermatology residency. Sounds like she got called on it.


.....actually she didn't get called out on anything. The video and powerpoint is down and will be updated with current info. Sorry boys, you did not win anything.

Thanks for the heads up 👍

I do not try to hide my identity from my patients or try to fool them or mislead them. The insinuation is that everyone wants to be you because you are the standard by which all else should be measured. The arrogance of this concept is beyond reproach. In my opinion, the education that is provided to medical students is substandard because it only focuses on the physical. Mind, spirit, and body cannot be separated. They are intertwined.

Go back to the Middle Ages. Your opinion will be widely accepted in that era.


EDIT:
Articles/documents/literature that were mentioned on this topic have been archived for reference. All material is public access and can otherwise be viewed by clicking on the links posted by members in the original threads. Individual files can be downloaded from this storage folder on the ifile.it website:

pol.i.tick.ing reading material [NPs can now do dermatology residencies]
-Note: Non-PDF material not included-

pol.i.tick.ing reading material [Nurse Practitioners are so hot right now]
-Note: Non-PDF material not included-

 

[ribelle una]

"NOT" the DNP director? Really? Wow...you think you know so much. I'm done here. Based on your complete ignorance, these debates are not worth my time.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

This is the EXACT attitude that we are afraid is going to lead to substandard patient care with the expansion of the specialty DNP. Your posts have only validated this entire thread.

This dermatology DNPs opinion should only cause you to redouble your efforts to stop this dangerous abuse of power! She claims equivalence in your own house and tries to taunt/belittle you! I can only imagine what she says to her family, friends, and to people behind closed doors.

Remember, she believes DNPs can out diagnose any of the physicians doctors who post on this board. I guess I am confused, I thought diagnosis of medical conditions was the practice of medicine.

Please, do tell me what is the difference between a doctor nurse of dermatology/emergency medicine/internal medicine and a doctor physician in terms of medicine versus nursing. Are you saying that since I take the time to listen to my patients, I am actually practicing nursing?

 

[NYRN]

Oh is that right? Tell the good "Doctor" we said 'This page is currently unavailable'.

Rabbit Hole, I think we finally agree on something

To the DNP: Its misleading to walk up to the patient and be like "hi, I'm dr. so and so". Anyone who has hospital experience knows that the patients rarely remember your name. After the MD/PA/med student leaves the room, the patient will often say to me, that doctor was here to see me and said xyz. All they remember is the person introduced themself as Dr so and so. If it was not in fact the resident/attending, I explain who that person was.

Patients want to know who it is they are receiving care from. There are so many people in the hospital, its easy to get confused. If the patient thinks you are trying to confuse them or mislead them, you have broken any chance of rapport you could have had.

Patients will ask, what is an NP? Then you can explain the role of the NP and tell them you have a masters and doctoral degree. There is a way to do things and a way not to. Some patients express anxiety about seeing a resident. If I said "this is Dr. Jones, he/she is a student doctor" the patient may not want to talk to them or refuse to be seen. What is that going to achieve? Instead, I introduce residents to patients by saying this is Dr. Jones, he/she is part of Dr. Smiths team. While Dr. Smith is not in the hospital, these doctors will be working with him/her to take care of you.

As an advocate of nursing, I'm sure you were part of the movement for patients to "ask for an RN", instead of these hospitals misleading patients by replacing RN's with medical assistants. How is this any different than NP's misleading the patients into thinking they are phyisicans? Patients do not have a problem with NP's. Patients have a problem with care providers who mislead them, no matter what their title is.

 

[goosew]

"NOT" the DNP director? Really? Wow...you think you know so much. I'm done here. Based on your complete ignorance, these debates are not worth my time.

good riddance, she originally claimed that she was the Director of the DERMATOLOGY RESIDENCY....... looks like it's the same false pretenses under which you want to "practice medcine".

 

[JaggerPlate]

I want to apologize in advance to all my MD and DO colleagues whom I work with and consult with. You are a credit to your profession and the health care community. This is addressed to the younglings preparing to enter the workforce who, like most adolescents, lack a full understanding of the topics they speak of.

I was turned onto this site by a friend and colleague of mine Dr. Debra Shelby. I read all the thoughtless banter and venom spewed by the excessively opinionated and unexpectedly uneducated medical students. I have earned my Doctoral of Nursing Practice degree and the right to be called doctor just as everyone else who earns a doctoral degree. Please study up on the history and meaning of the word "doctor" it would serve the medical profession well for most of you have forgotten or never knew its origin.

I call myself doctor and pursued this educational route, not because of a lack of intelligence or work ethic as many of you have proposed on the blog, but because I love providing care to my patients.

I am not a medical doctor by choice not because I could not hack it. I would invite you all to spend a few months working alongside you RN colleagues in the hospitals before you are so quick to assert your intellectual superiority. Nurses have been providing compassionate, caring, and comprehensive care since before the time that "doctors" were treating the humors and boring holes in skulls to release evil spirits.

I do not try to hide my identity from my patients or try to fool them or mislead them. The insinuation is that everyone wants to be you because you are the standard by which all else should be measured. The arrogance of this concept is beyond reproach. In my opinion, the education that is provided to medical students is substandard because it only focuses on the physical. Mind, spirit, and body cannot be separated. They are intertwined.

Lets call a spade a spade. You don't care about patient safety, if you did then physicians would lobby for every patient to be seen in consultation with a NP. You all care about the title, presitige, and money. NP's are highly educated, well trained, and effective contributors to the health care system with or without physicians. This has been shown in multiple control trials. I will list a few:
Kinnersley et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1043-1048
Mundinger et.al. JAMA 283(1) 59-68
Shum et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1038-1043
Venning et.al. BMJ 320(7241) 1048-1053
Ohman et.al. Annals of Family Medicine 6: 14-22

There are many others like these but I only included a few. I would challenge all of you to find one that says otherwise. In primary care of patients, NP's and now DNP's have provided comparable and at times superior care than our physician brethren. Those are the facts. Not opinion as were all of your posts. The truth of the matter is that we are better at caring for people than you. People prefer our services to yours time and time again. There are no studies that show to the contrary. We also do a much better job at educating patients on disease processes than you. This is also not an opinion, but proven in these studies, printed in your journals. Doctor comes from the latin docere which means to teach. As a profession you get a failing grade. The days of dictating care to patients and getting complience because you are the alwighty doctor are over!!! Patients are more educated than ever and demand to be treated with respect. If you are all so brilliant as it seems you think you are, maybe you could find a way to teach each other how to educate your patients in terms they can understand. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!! Join the battle for better healthcare and quit worrying about your bank accounts. No one cares when we treat the indigent, underserved, and rural areas without physician supervision but you get your panties in a wad when we say we don't need you to take 70% of what we earn and put it in your pockets despite not doing a damn thing to treat a patient.

I am not claiming, nor do I want to be a surgeon, cardiologist, endocrinologist, or any one of the many specialists who provide comprehensive care to moderate and high acuity patients. I and most other NP's and DNP's know when a patient walks in the door if their problems need referral to more specialized not primary care. I specialize in dermatology and you better believe I can out diagnose, treat, and care for my patients than any of you students. You haven't been around long enough to earn an opinion on this topic.

As the head "youngling" in this thread ... let me tell you how proud I feel right now. I can't explain how great it feels to know that "Dr" Debra Shelby not only knows about this thread, but that our efforts resulted in the removal of her video from the USF site AND she's asking her minions to come here and "school" us.

Your post reads like a brochure for DNP expansion, and let me assure you of a few things:

1. Us "younglings" are sick of this crap, and simply aren't going to take it. Frankly, I've never seen medical students so energized on any single issue, and I'm personally doing everything in my power to make sure physicians and future physicians don't go down without a fight.

2. You guys are your own worst enemies in this fight. As many others have pointed out, this battle will be won based on the fact that DNPs are far, far less trained and patients are safer (and prefer working) with physicians, and this fact shines brightly. Watch the interviews on CNN and Fox News. Initially, I was enraged that the AMA didn't send a representative, but after watching one of the head NPs (err whatever) mocked on Fox, I feel comfortable with your "truth" campaign. You look insecure, misinformed, and immature.

3. No, you don't want to be a Cardiologist, or an Endocrinologist - you want to be a Dermatologist. It's smeared all over statements like "I am not a medical doctor by choice" and " I'm trained in dermatology and can out diagnose, treat, etc, any of you kids out there." First, you're correct, you aren't a medical doctor ... so stop trying to act like one. Quit parading around in a white coat, stop participating in 2 week, online Neurosurgery residencies, stop introducing yourself as Doctor in a clinical setting, and quit trying to practice medicine.

Furthermore, I'm sure many of your DNP colleagues want to be Cardiologists and Endrocrinologists (the same way you want to be a dermatologist), and it's only a matter of time before the American Association of Cardiology Nurses starts a "residency" in cardiology somewhere.

Second, take the MCAT, obtain acceptance to a US DO/MD school, complete 2 years of pre-clinical sciences and 2 years of rotations, take the USMLE/COMLEX, match into dermatology, complete the required number of years in a dermatology residency, then take all appropriate steps to gaining board certification ... THEN tell all med students and residents you're a better gunslinger. Because, frankly, you have absolutely no clue if you can do what you say. But that's your guy's mantra, isn't it? Assume you're just as good, so demand the same outcome with absolutely none of the work, while simultaneously throwing ethics, patient safety, and the liabilities out the window.

I hope this is what you were shooting for with your pithy response. This just officially kicked my drive into high gear.

Sincerely,

A Youngling.

 

[Abducens]

Check out the core curriculm for the DNP programs at USF..... its basically all leadership, research, and statistics. 3 hours each of pharmacotherapeutics and pathophys, give me a break.

Shame on any physician who would employ someone with such meager training.


Curriculum

Total credits: 52
Knowledge Building Core (Required) (min 37 crs)
NGR 6673 Epidemiology for Advanced Nursing (3)
NGR 7841 Statistical Methods Nursing Research I or
EDF 6407 Statistical Analyses for Educational Research or
PHC 6050 Biostatistics (3)
NGR 7951 Scientific Writing-Publication (3)
NGR 7103 Evidence Based Practice (3)
NGR 7141 Pathophysiology for Adv Practice II (3)
NGR 7766 Leadership & System Analysis (3)
NGR 7881 Ethics in Research and Practice (3)
NGR 7892 Health Policy Issues in Nursing and Health Care (3)
NGR 7974 Evidence Based Project (4)
NGR 7945 DNP Residency (9)

Advanced Practice Cognate 15 crs
NGR 7176 Pharmacotherapeutics (3)
NGR 7209 Diagnostic Reasoning (3)
NGR 7767 Practice Management (3)
Electives (6)

The residency and research project are done over a minimum of two semesters.

 

[NYRN]

Check out the core curriculm for the DNP programs at USF..... its basically all leadership, research, and statistics. 3 hours each of pharmacotherapeutics and pathophys, give me a break.

Shame on any physician who would employ someone with such meager training.


Curriculum

Total credits: 52
Knowledge Building Core (Required) (min 37 crs)
NGR 6673 Epidemiology for Advanced Nursing (3)
NGR 7841 Statistical Methods Nursing Research I or
EDF 6407 Statistical Analyses for Educational Research or
PHC 6050 Biostatistics (3)
NGR 7951 Scientific Writing-Publication (3)
NGR 7103 Evidence Based Practice (3)
NGR 7141 Pathophysiology for Adv Practice II (3)
NGR 7766 Leadership & System Analysis (3)
NGR 7881 Ethics in Research and Practice (3)
NGR 7892 Health Policy Issues in Nursing and Health Care (3)
NGR 7974 Evidence Based Project (4)
NGR 7945 DNP Residency (9)

Advanced Practice Cognate 15 crs
NGR 7176 Pharmacotherapeutics (3)
NGR 7209 Diagnostic Reasoning (3)
NGR 7767 Practice Management (3)
Electives (6)

The residency and research project are done over a minimum of two semesters.

I do not agree with these fast tracked DNP programs. A masters prepared NP in a good program will take a year of patho in addition to physiology at the very least. 1 semester of pharm in addition to the clinical hours is on top of whatever pharm they took in a nursing program. IF the NP has years of acute care nursing experience and attends a good NP program, they will be well prepared to work alongside physicians.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Here is my chat conversation with the USF College of Nursing regarding the DNP dermatology "residency" program. If someone wants to shoot an email their way.. that's the person to contact. Cheers.
BTW - My pseudonym is Lucy Fer

: Hi, my name is USF College of Nursing. How may I help you?

Lucy Fer: Hi, my question is about the DNP dermatology residency program.

Lucy Fer: I can't find the information online anymore.

: Ok, It would be best to contact Marcia Parker, [email protected]. Unfortunately this chat is for Undergraduate interest...

Lucy Fer: Okay, but you don't know why this was taken down?

Lucy Fer: without notice

: I honestly don't know...the DNP Programs are out of a different office than I am.

Lucy Fer: okay so I should just contact the email you provided

: Yes, it would be best to contact Ms. Parker in regards to your questions. She would be the best person to provide information in regards to DNP interest.

Lucy Fer: okay thank you
: you're very welcome, take care

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I do not agree with these fast tracked DNP programs. A masters prepared NP in a good program will take a year of patho in addition to physiology at the very least. 1 semester of pharm in addition to the clinical hours is on top of whatever pharm they took in a nursing program. IF the NP has years of acute care nursing experience and attends a good NP program, they will be well prepared to work alongside physicians.

NYRN,

Most of us know and realize that nurse practitioners are a good bunch of people and are very knowledgable about their field. Our intention is not to alienate your entire profession. What we're concerned about are these rogue DNP bunch who are soliciting endorsements from all other nursing organizations in order to legitimatize themselves and then ultimately use your support and then assimilate you into their agenda. If you have looked at the DNP goals.. they want to make the DNP degree standard.. pretty much they want to be the rulers of the nursing world and I don't understand why you guys are falling for this. I know that many nurses are opposed to these changes and this process is essentially slandering their good name. Maybe it's time the nurses urge their representatives to withdraw their support for the DNPs. If you don't, you'll have to become one yourself.

 

[ribelle una]

I do not agree with these fast tracked DNP programs. A masters prepared NP in a good program will take a year of patho in addition to physiology at the very least. 1 semester of pharm in addition to the clinical hours is on top of whatever pharm they took in a nursing program. IF the NP has years of acute care nursing experience and attends a good NP program, they will be well prepared to work alongside physicians.


NYRN,

I will only respond to you because I want you informed. This is not a fast track DNP program. This program is for NPs who already have their MSN. Please, I ask again, make sure you know what you are saying before posting. The USF DNP derm program has over 60 credit hours with the highest amount of clinical hours required in any DNP program.

 

[filter07]

Does anyone have information about nursing scope of practice? I find it hard to understand how the practice of medicine, which dermatology obviously is, can be considered the practice of nursing. From a legal standpoint, can the state nursing boards declare basically anything as "nursing"? Or is there some sort of reasonable guideline?

 

[Pickyournose]

If you wanted all this you should've gone to medical school. Get over yourself.
.

We need doctors with more education, not doctor substitutes with less education. Residencies should be made 2-3 years longer. There's no way a family practitioner can know everything in 3 years. Even a plastic surgeon's training, sometimes 7 years, is too short.

Generalists think they know everything or almost everything. Specialists think the same thing. They don't. Sub-specialists often do things better.

When I was a specialist, I thought I knew nearly everything. When I went into fellowship, I found how mediocre a job I, and others, used to do and how more training equals better care. When I see patients who were treated first by generalist then referred, usually the care received isn't that good. Bottom line is that there is too much for the human brain to know. Only ignorant people should go to nurse practitioners. If their disease is routine, they are just lucky. If their disease has a nuance, the nurse practitioner (or even the generalist) will often not treat the problem completely right. This post shouldn't be misinterpreted to mean that sub-specialists are the best. Outside of their sub-specialty, they may be not as sharp as the specialist.

 

[JaggerPlate]

"Lucy Fer"