NRMP rank list

[hatshepsut]

Does the rank list allow you to rank an advanced program with the stipulation of a specific preliminary or transitional year? For example can I rank:
1. categorical anesthesiology in milwaukee
2. advanced anesthesiology in milwauke + tranitional year milwaukee?
Or are they two independent lists? I have heard individuals tell me yes and no to this question and I need clarification before I apply on Sept. 1st.

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[BobBarker]

Good question. I've been wondering the same thing. I might just rank a prelim program where I live now ahead of all the other prelim programs to try to simplify things.

 

[Gimlet]

Does the rank list allow you to rank an advanced program with the stipulation of a specific preliminary or transitional year? For example can I rank:
1. categorical anesthesiology in milwaukee
2. advanced anesthesiology in milwauke + tranitional year milwaukee?
Or are they two independent lists? I have heard individuals tell me yes and no to this question and I need clarification before I apply on Sept. 1st.

The way you have it is right. Everything is on one list.

Each advanced program you list will be linked to a 'supplemental rank order list' made up of preliminary and transitional year programs. Should you match to an advanced program, it will trigger another algorithm to match you to a 1st year postion on the supplemental list linked to that specific advanced program.

You can make multiple supplemental lists to be linked to different programs. So, for example, your supplemental list for the Milwaukee advanced program may read
1) St. Luke's TY
2) St. Joe's TY
3) MCW Prelim Medicine

and your supplemental list for a Chicago advanced program may list all Chicago prelims first or perhaps a program in your hometown so you don't have to move right away.

 

[racerx]

Gimlet,

Thanks for info. Can I link preliminary programs from one city/state to an advanced program somewhere else? For example, if I want to do prelim/TY in a Pittsburgh, PA program and an advanced in a Chicago, IL program, can I link them?

thanks in advance.

 

[BobBarker]

Also, say you strike out in the anesthesiology match completely, but one of the prelim programs has a spot open for you. Do you match there for PGY1 even though you didn't match at the advanced program you had attached to it?

 

[Gimlet]

Gimlet,

Thanks for info. Can I link preliminary programs from one city/state to an advanced program somewhere else? For example, if I want to do prelim/TY in a Pittsburgh, PA program and an advanced in a Chicago, IL program, can I link them?

thanks in advance.

Yep, you can programs on your supplemental lists in any combination you want. This stuff will all be much more self-evident once you are able to log on to the NRMP site in January and play around with your lists.

Also, say you strike out in the anesthesiology match completely, but one of the prelim programs has a spot open for you. Do you match there for PGY1 even though you didn't match at the advanced program you had attached to it?

In this instance, you would only match at the prelim spot if you put it on your PRIMARY rank order list. You can't match to anything on a supplemental list unless you first match to the corresponding advanced program on your primary list.

Some applicants who have spots left on their primary rank lists will toss on a couple of prelim programs at the end as a back up...probably not a horrible idea if you are worried about your competitiveness for anesthesiology (but I wouldn't bump anesthesiology programs off your primary list in order to do this).

 

[hatshepsut]

So you might match an advanced program and not get a prelim spot? Or is it all or none?

If I put my rank order list as follows...
1. Advanced Anesth MCW
a. TY St Joes
b. TY St Lukes
2. Categorical Anesth MCW

If I didn't match to either transitional year, would I be stuck with an advanced spot despite this?

 

[RussianJoo]

Yep, you can programs on your supplemental lists in any combination you want. This stuff will all be much more self-evident once you are able to log on to the NRMP site in January and play around with your lists.



In this instance, you would only match at the prelim spot if you put it on your PRIMARY rank order list. You can't match to anything on a supplemental list unless you first match to the corresponding advanced program on your primary list.

Some applicants who have spots left on their primary rank lists will toss on a couple of prelim programs at the end as a back up...probably not a horrible idea if you are worried about your competitiveness for anesthesiology (but I wouldn't bump anesthesiology programs off your primary list in order to do this).

Gimlet, thank so much for the clarification. So just to double check. when you make a rank order list (ROL) you make a primary list first where you list the main programs in whatever order you want, i.e. cat. and adv. anesthesia programs, then for every adv. anesthesia program you make a supplemental list thus if you match there then the supplemental list will be used to match your prelim. or TY year match. And to be on the safe side if you can rank some prelim or TY year programs on the primary list at the very end just so you at least match somewhere.

is this correct?

thanks again for your help.

 

[RussianJoo]

So you might match an advanced program and not get a prelim spot? Or is it all or none?

If I put my rank order list as follows...
1. Advanced Anesth MCW
a. TY St Joes
b. TY St Lukes
2. Categorical Anesth MCW

If I didn't match to either transitional year, would I be stuck with an advanced spot despite this?

I am pretty sure it can happen, and I've hear of people having to scramble for prelim or TY spots at the end of the match.

 

[RussianJoo]

is there a limit to how many programs you can rank on the primary list? lets say i interview at 12 Anesthesia programs and 12 prelim/TY programs. Can I rank them all on my primary list just to make sure i have a job next year. Also does it cost extra to make more ROL lists or is it just a one time fee?

thanks for your answers in advance.

 

[Southpaw]

So you might match an advanced program and not get a prelim spot? Or is it all or none?

If I put my rank order list as follows...
1. Advanced Anesth MCW
a. TY St Joes
b. TY St Lukes
2. Categorical Anesth MCW

If I didn't match to either transitional year, would I be stuck with an advanced spot despite this?

Yes based on how you have your list. If you ranked the 3 year MCW program first, and they had you ranked highly, you'd match there. Then your supplemental list kicks in for that rank. And if you had only 2 programs ranked, both TY, and neither of which you matched to, you'd have to scramble into a prelim/TY program for your first year.

 

[Southpaw]

Gimlet, thank so much for the clarification. So just to double check. when you make a rank order list (ROL) you make a primary list first where you list the main programs in whatever order you want, i.e. cat. and adv. anesthesia programs, then for every adv. anesthesia program you make a supplemental list thus if you match there then the supplemental list will be used to match your prelim. or TY year match. And to be on the safe side if you can rank some prelim or TY year programs on the primary list at the very end just so you at least match somewhere.

is this correct?

thanks again for your help.

Yes you're correct. You can have one supplemental list, or you can have multiple if you wanted to match into the same city as your advanced. This will all become clear once you start playing around in the NRMP list.

For example... a sample rank list could look like this...

1) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
2) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
3) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)

OR...if you only wanted wanted to match categorical you could only rank categoricals on your primary list. As follows....

1) LA categorical
2) Boston categorical
3) NYC categorical
and so on and so on.....

OR...if you wanted to rank some prelims as backup on your primary list your list might look like this...

1) LA categorical
2) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
3) Boston categorical
4) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
5) NYC categorical
6) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)
7) LA prelim
8) Boston prelim
9) NYC prelim

Both your primary and supplemental lists offer a ton of versatility with the ranking. You can fix it up however you like based on your personal preferences. And again, it'll all become a lot clearer once you get into the system and start playing around.

 

[fakin' the funk]

The NRMP user guide answers a lot of those questions and is for the most part more concise and clear than we are!
www.nrmp.org/res_match/userguide/2009_applicant.pdf

But like Southpaw said, it's clear what you can and can't do once you can play with the ROL system. Unfortunately that's pretty late in the season. In the meantime, apply to a however many places you think is appropriate and figure out the ranking stuff later.

The important thing to remember is that the system is as flexible as you are -- it doesn't care where your prelim is located vis-a-vis your advanced program -- or if you throw in a categorical. You could put a prelim in your #1 slot if you wanted to (though that'd be crazy). I think a typical "backup plan" is to put prelims at the very bottom of your Main ROL, as long as you're OK with matching into a prelim only should your anesthesia match fail.

Regarding the fees and length of your ROL, you pay for the # of programs that you rank, not necessarily the # of ranks on your list. If you have a reason to generate a bunch of subtly different supplemental ROL's, you can do so. This comes into it a bit more if you're couples matching and trying to list different program combinations in the same region/location. I was in the Couples Match and ended up with over 100 unique ranks...if you have specific Q's about Couples Matching I'd be glad to help.

 

[J10sstar]

Alright I understand how the rank order list works, thanks to everyone, but I have sort of a dilemma. I've already lined up a prelim spot from a family connection, but they don't do pre-match agreements (I'm a US IMG).

Worse case scenario, I am unable to obtain a PGY-2 (or CA-1) Anesthesia position in the match. How would I go about ranking the prelim spot that I have a verbal agreement with to ensure I match there if things don't work out.

 

[mstudent12345]

Alright I understand how the rank order list works, thanks to everyone, but I have sort of a dilemma. I've already lined up a prelim spot from a family connection, but they don't do pre-match agreements (I'm a US IMG).

Worse case scenario, I am unable to obtain a PGY-2 (or CA-1) Anesthesia position in the match. How would I go about ranking the prelim spot that I have a verbal agreement with to ensure I match there if things don't work out.

You can just add that program to the bottom of your primary list. If you dont match at any gas places you'll end up there

 

[RussianJoo]

Yes you're correct. You can have one supplemental list, or you can have multiple if you wanted to match into the same city as your advanced. This will all become clear once you start playing around in the NRMP list.

For example... a sample rank list could look like this...

1) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
2) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
3) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)

OR...if you only wanted wanted to match categorical you could only rank categoricals on your primary list. As follows....

1) LA categorical
2) Boston categorical
3) NYC categorical
and so on and so on.....

OR...if you wanted to rank some prelims as backup on your primary list your list might look like this...

1) LA categorical
2) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
3) Boston categorical
4) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
5) NYC categorical
6) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)
7) LA prelim
8) Boston prelim
9) NYC prelim

Both your primary and supplemental lists offer a ton of versatility with the ranking. You can fix it up however you like based on your personal preferences. And again, it'll all become a lot clearer once you get into the system and start playing around.

thanks a lot, it cleared everything up. Thanks Fakin' the Funk to you as well.

 

[DO4lifer]

absolutely fantastic work. you should have NRMP put this on their website.

i'm glad all of that ERAS crap is over for now. Although I miss fourth year itself. The only thing good about intern year is that now I get paid for my scut work.

Yes you're correct. You can have one supplemental list, or you can have multiple if you wanted to match into the same city as your advanced. This will all become clear once you start playing around in the NRMP list.

For example... a sample rank list could look like this...

1) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
2) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
3) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)

OR...if you only wanted wanted to match categorical you could only rank categoricals on your primary list. As follows....

1) LA categorical
2) Boston categorical
3) NYC categorical
and so on and so on.....

OR...if you wanted to rank some prelims as backup on your primary list your list might look like this...

1) LA categorical
2) LA advanced ---> Supplemental list A (LA prelims ranked highest)
3) Boston categorical
4) Boston advanced ---> Supplemental list B (Boston prelims ranked highest)
5) NYC categorical
6) NYC advanced ---> Supplemental list C (NYC prelims ranked highest)
7) LA prelim
8) Boston prelim
9) NYC prelim

Both your primary and supplemental lists offer a ton of versatility with the ranking. You can fix it up however you like based on your personal preferences. And again, it'll all become a lot clearer once you get into the system and start playing around.

 

[bgcmcnt]

Can I choose both categorial and advanced for one program?

 

[Gimlet]

Can I choose both categorial and advanced for one program?

Yes, and in most circumstances, you should. You will want to maximize the spots available for you to match at your desired programs.

 

[bgcmcnt]

Thank You Gimlet. More questions. Most programs already downloaded my application. Since I only chose the "categorial" type of training, can I go back and add on "advanced" training? Would that affect my application in a bad way? Do I need a separate personal statement for these transitional year programs?

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Thank You Gimlet. More questions. Most programs already downloaded my application. Since I only chose the "categorial" type of training, can I go back and add on "advanced" training? Would that affect my application in a bad way? Do I need a separate personal statement for these transitional year programs?

Yes. No. No, although I've heard some people write a separate one for medicine prelim years. I think the majority do not.

 

[Gimlet]

Yes. No. No, although I've heard some people write a separate one for medicine prelim years. I think the majority do not.

I just wrote an extra paragraph on the end of my anesthesia PS and saved it as a separate one to submit to the TY/prelim programs. Nobody seemed to care or mention it, although I matched to a categorical so I guess I can't say if it would have affected me...I feel pretty confident saying they don't expect you to write an entirely separate PS, though.