NRMP Regional PM&R Statistics

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i could be wrong, but i think it came out tuesday at noon EST last year. and technically, i think you're not supposed to share it...programs don't want everyone finding out they didn't fill.
 
no problem. A couple of other residencies had posted (OBGYN, Peds) on their forums. Not looking for specific programs that didn't match, just numbers of available spots. It sounds like that info was available to the applicants on the other forums.
 
This info is "public," so to speak, in that all applicants can see this information. The individual information regarding which programs have open positions is NOT public and won't be available until tomorrow anyway, and that's only for those who did not match.

PGY-1 Positions:

PM&R: Total: 83. Unmatched: 3. (all three in the Southern region).

PGY-2 Positions:

PM&R: Total: 287. Unmatched: 12. (8 in the Central, 4 in the Northeast).

Peds/PM&R: Total: 4. Unmatched: 2. (1 in the Central, 1 in the Northeast).

-savealife
 
I know this is speculation, but isn't there only 2 PGY-1 programs in the south.. San Antonio and LSU? I'm just curious if there are more.


savealife said:
This info is "public," so to speak, in that all applicants can see this information. The individual information regarding which programs have open positions is NOT public and won't be available until tomorrow anyway, and that's only for those who did not match.

PGY-1 Positions:

PM&R: Total: 83. Unmatched: 3. (all three in the Southern region).

PGY-2 Positions:

PM&R: Total: 287. Unmatched: 12. (8 in the Central, 4 in the Northeast).

Peds/PM&R: Total: 4. Unmatched: 2. (1 in the Central, 1 in the Northeast).

-savealife
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rehabman said:
I know this is speculation, but isn't there only 2 PGY-1 programs in the south.. San Antonio and LSU? I'm just curious if there are more.
Click to expand...

There's also U of Arkansas.
 
doctobe2 said:
According to their website its three PGY1 and one PG2. This is a link to their website

http://www.uams.edu/pmr/residents/program/ I f you click on FAQ you'll get your questions answered.


Also, you can research other programs via FREIDA's website. The link is below
http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/1,1239,Y,00.html

Good luck!
Click to expand...

yep, i usually go to freida, but didn't see their quota listed there. It'd be surprising if none of the three PGY1 seats filled at arkansas.. I wonder which of the other two didn't fill..
 
Uk has 3 PGY1 spots as well
 
Which programs didn't fill? Anyone want to divulge this info?
 
Llenroc said:
Which programs didn't fill? Anyone want to divulge this info?
Click to expand...
I have heard UK, Arkansas, Downstate, Wash U, Wisconsin, MCW, Wayne State, Sinai, and Schwab, but that is just 2nd hand
 
ampaphb said:
I have heard UK, Arkansas, Downstate, Wash U, Wisconsin, MCOW, Wayne State, Sinai, and Schwab, but that is just 2nd hand
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I have heard the exact same schools.. however, I didn't get a unfilled list.. so I can't tell you for sure.
 
That is what i heard.
Schwab suprised me
 
wow, is this the real list? i am really shocked to hear about schwab and wisconsin because i was very impressed with both of these programs. good luck everyone!!
 
Which Sinai didn't fill? New York? Maryland? ??
 
Mount Sinai in NY filled all their spots!!
 
agdoc04 said:
That is what i heard.
Schwab suprised me
Click to expand...

Schwab is a bit surprising...the rest of the list traditionally have difficulty in filling all spots if memory over the last few years is correct.
 
96% of positions filled. That's a lot.
 
It's a little higher than 2007 (94.4%):
-373 Positions Available (advanced + categorical)
- 21 Positions Unfilled (advanced + categorical)
 
Consideration to take into account regarding the unfilled spots- some program for reasons I doesn't completely understand/ or that justifiably makes actual sense-- they will keep out one of two spots from matching. They'll say that they'd rather limit their rank list and filled with whom they really want than get some that may be a bit satifactory for their taste. this tactic of a short ROL will give a spot "unmatched" and they the PD can "handpick their candidate" since it's in the scramble. Notoriously programs go year after year with spots such as this. I don't really this this tactic is fair to the whole match process as its supposed intention, however it the "the match" and anything can happen.
good luck to all in the process- don't forget to post, let us know were you are going. :hardy:
 
olafa said:
Consideration to take into account regarding the unfilled spots- some program for reasons I doesn't completely understand/ or that justifiably makes actual sense-- they will keep out one of two spots from matching. They'll say that they'd rather limit their rank list and filled with whom they really want than get some that may be a bit satifactory for their taste. this tactic of a short ROL will give a spot "unmatched" and they the PD can "handpick their candidate" since it's in the scramble. Notoriously programs go year after year with spots such as this. I don't really this this tactic is fair to the whole match process as its supposed intention, however it the "the match" and anything can happen.
good luck to all in the process- don't forget to post, let us know were you are going. :hardy:
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What programs do this on a consistent basis?
 
ampaphb said:
What programs do this on a consistent basis?
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer regarding which programs consistently leave a slot open. However, about 4 years ago I tried to help a physician who was participating in the match to scramble into PMR. Interestingly enough, a few of the names on the current list match those of 4 years ago. I distinctly remember that Wash U and MCOW each had a slot available, and that they were not interested in the physician I was trying to help. I had always assumed that program directors would be desperate to fill all of their slots, and would be anxious to talk with prospective candidates (or their "sponsors") to ascertain who would be the best fit for their programs from the candidates left available. I therefore found it strange that these programs almost seemed "leisurely" in their conversations, as though they weren't worried at all about the outcome of filling their remaining slot. Looking back, it is almost as if...they knew they weren't going to fill the slot!

Hmmmmm.

PS: I think I saved a copy of the unfilled match list from 4 years ago. I will share it with the rest of y'all if/when I find it.
 
You'd think PM&R Departments would be happy to collect the funding for the slot from GME.😕
 
ShrikeMD said:
I don't know the answer regarding which programs consistently leave a slot open. However, about 4 years ago I tried to help a physician who was participating in the match to scramble into PMR. Interestingly enough, a few of the names on the current list match those of 4 years ago. I distinctly remember that Wash U and MCOW each had a slot available, and that they were not interested in the physician I was trying to help. I had always assumed that program directors would be desperate to fill all of their slots, and would be anxious to talk with prospective candidates (or their "sponsors") to ascertain who would be the best fit for their programs from the candidates left available. I therefore found it strange that these programs almost seemed "leisurely" in their conversations, as though they weren't worried at all about the outcome of filling their remaining slot. Looking back, it is almost as if...they knew they weren't going to fill the slot!

Hmmmmm.

PS: I think I saved a copy of the unfilled match list from 4 years ago. I will share it with the rest of y'all if/when I find it.
Click to expand...
I agree. I have heard of this myself. I think programs should rank all acceptable candidates that they interview. Of course, if they interview and don't find the candidate suitable that is one thing, but you can't tell me that out of all of those people they interview, that they can't find enough good candidates?
 
Finally M3 said:
Schwab is a bit surprising...the rest of the list traditionally have difficulty in filling all spots if memory over the last few years is correct.
Click to expand...

Personally, I interviewed at Schwab, and other than the strong PD and some of the faculty, I was not impressed. But, they are in Chicago. Maybe they were just too particular in who they ranked, and didn't rank enough people. This is just my personal opinion, and I am sure Schwab would be great for others.
 
ampaphb said:
I have heard UK, Arkansas, Downstate, Wash U, Wisconsin, MCOW, Wayne State, Sinai, and Schwab, but that is just 2nd hand
Click to expand...

I interviewed at SUNY Downstate, and me and a bunch of candidates just sat around for a long time before our interviews. I ended up having a great time speaking with the other candidates, but the day was just ridiculous.
If they want to start attracting strong candidates and filling their spots, they need to start fixing their interview day. I was really turned off by this program until I found some residents to talk to that were really happy there, and told me how great it was. I ended up ranking them, but was a little concerned about matching there, until 1 pm yesterday (mostly because I didn't want to live in NYC/Brooklyn for various reasons (I am from the Midwest)).
They were on probation in the past, but not now. I have heard good things about the Dr. Pipia, and the program. I think their haphazard interview day really hurts them. I have heard this from the other candidates I interviewed with as well as read that here on this forum.
 
DrUrsus said:
Personally, I interviewed at Schwab, and other than the strong PD and some of the faculty, I was not impressed. But, they are in Chicago. Maybe they were just too particular in who they ranked, and didn't rank enough people. This is just my personal opinion, and I am sure Schwab would be great for others.
Click to expand...

I think Schwab meets the criteria for what is considered a traditional PM&R residency, one that is strong in its inpatient abilities (TBI, SCI, etc). Where it does lack is its ability to be progressive (MSK, Sports Med, Interventional Spine/Pain, elective time) as most residencies are turning towards. I do agree the PD is one great person and she will go to bat for you as a resident, but I have heard that if you are on her sh** list all doors quickly will shut on you for whatever you need, want to do/pursue, etc...

This residency may appeal to those who are inclined to needing direction, interested in the inpatient side of things and are inclined to pursue those SCI/TBI fellowships. They do however claim to be a part of UofC, but actually it is quite loose in its affiliation (only do consults and pain rotation there) and rumors are surfacing that UofC may start its own PM&R program in the future as well.
 
ampaphb said:
I have heard UK, Arkansas, Downstate, Wash U, Wisconsin, MCOW, Wayne State, Sinai, and Schwab, but that is just 2nd hand
Click to expand...
With the exception of Schwab and Sinai Baltimore, these programs are usually the ones that are unfilled. SUNY Downstate is under the ortho department and Wash U in St. Louis is under the neurology department. That is probably what makes those two programs less desirable. Sometimes, the program directors also rank too few applicants which causes spots to go unmatched.
 
Finally M3 said:
Schwab is a bit surprising...the rest of the list traditionally have difficulty in filling all spots if memory over the last few years is correct.
Click to expand...
I am not sure that is fair to either Sinai or Wisconsin
 
ampaphb said:
I am not sure that is fair to either Sinai or Wisconsin
Click to expand...

In the late 90's MCW had terrible recruiting and couldn't get American grads, despite ranking them all higher than IMG's (I was there, and took part in a lot of it). The incoming 99 class was all IMG. The program went through some transition in the early 00's. Dr. Merritt left as chairman. Dr. Hoffman was promoted to program director after Dr. Klingbeil left, then he left a couple years later. Around that time, they failed to fill a couple times, including one year apparently completely all positions unmatched.

Dr. Dillingham has apparently turned the program around and it has filled all spots through the match for the past several years (haven't heard about this year yet).

UW has had some similar problems.
 
PMR 4 MSK said:
UW has had some similar problems.
Click to expand...
This is the first year I have ever seen Wisconsin on the list (as opposed to MCW, which, as you say, had its difficulties until Dr. Dillingham arrived)
 
How come Wayne State has trouble filling? Is it the location? Academics? Program director?
 
ampaphb said:
I am not sure that is fair to either Sinai or Wisconsin
Click to expand...

Lol that's why I put in 'if memory serves' caveat.

To the poster above, Wayne has a problem regarding location, uncertainty regarding the current Wayne State School of Medicine versus Detroit Medical Center feud. Due to this, instead of ranking every applicant, if they don't like all their applicant pool, they are willing to cherrypick from scramblers.
 
ShrikeMD said:
... I distinctly remember that Wash U and MCOW each had a slot available, and that they were not interested in the physician I was trying to help. I had always assumed that program directors would be desperate to fill all of their slots, and would be anxious to talk with prospective candidates (or their "sponsors") to ascertain who would be the best fit for their programs from the candidates left available. I therefore found it strange that these programs almost seemed "leisurely" in their conversations, as though they weren't worried at all about the outcome of filling their remaining slot.
Click to expand...

Disciple said:
You'd think PM&R Departments would be happy to collect the funding for the slot from GME.😕
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if that's in part because there is less urgency to fill an advanced slot, given that the start date is over a year away. Given that people do switch specialties and change programs after the PGY1 year and these people might be better qualified than the average scramble applicant, it might be a reasonable strategy to leave that slot open for a while and then conduct a proper interview process rather than making the decision based on a phone call and some faxes (ERAS docs these days). I've read that UCLA keeps a slot out of the match every year to fill with such people. It's also possible that these programs already had someone in mind for the slot.

Finally M3 said:
Lol that's why I put in 'if memory serves' caveat.
Click to expand...

Rather than continuing to rely on any poster's memory 😉 - I dug out the match statistics for 2003-2007. The last time prior to this year that UWisconsin went unfilled was 2003 and MCW has been filled every year in the previous 5 years, except 2004 where they fillled none of their spots. (maybe they didn't certify or something - seems strange?)

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresults2003-2007.pdf

I know less about MCW, but I think Wisconsin is a solid program with good pain/interventional/msk exposure. There are a number of good programs that went unfilled once during that period (Michigan, Jefferson, Mayo-Cat., Loma Linda, etc). I don't think that going unfilled can be used as measure of quality or necessarily means a program has "trouble" filling - since there are many factors/strategies that may contribute to such.
 
I'll never understand this match/interview process. One of my friends who is a very good applicant and is from the midwest told me she didn't even get an interview at MCW or Wisconsin (staying in the midwest was important to him), but interviewed at much better programs overall than these in her opinion and matched into a strong program.
 
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