munchymanRX

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So, I'm in a pickle. I'm trying to decide between TUCOM-CA and NSU-COM.

Here's the facts, such that they are:

-Both schools match pretty well

-Touro is close to home for me, but NSU is also a great school. I can see myself being very happy at both, and the end result is much the same.

Any input from the SDN-ers out there?
 

PunkmedGirl

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So, I'm in a pickle. I'm trying to decide between TUCOM-CA and NSU-COM.

Here's the facts, such that they are:

-Both schools match pretty well

-Touro is close to home for me, but NSU is also a great school. I can see myself being very happy at both, and the end result is much the same.

Any input from the SDN-ers out there?
The match tells you nothing about the school except where their students matched at for residency. You should look into the quality of their rotations sites, how their curriculum is set up, talk to current and recent grads of each school, and lastly if you want to entertain yourself then look at their current matchlists.
 

DoctorJDO

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The match tells you nothing about the school except where their students matched at for residency. You should look into the quality of their rotations sites, how their curriculum is set up, talk to current and recent grads of each school, and lastly if you want to entertain yourself then look at their current matchlists.
+1, also think of where you would most enjoy living/studying for 4+ years
 

p30doc

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NSUCOM no contest.
 

Booster

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whichever school (including living expenses) would be cheaper...if it comes down to just a few thousand dollars, then i would choose based on location and feel you got from the school.

that being said....i go to NSU and love it
 

Sinfest

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So, I'm in a pickle. I'm trying to decide between TUCOM-CA and NSU-COM.

Here's the facts, such that they are:

-Both schools match pretty well

-Touro is close to home for me, but NSU is also a great school. I can see myself being very happy at both, and the end result is much the same.

Any input from the SDN-ers out there?
I'm trying to decide the same exact thing right now, weird :laugh:
 

Longshanks

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NSU without a doubt.

Good location, diverse and quality rotation sites, potentially held in better regard to residency directors. One thing to keep in mind is their rural clerkship requirement, that may or may not be your thing.
 

drpierre

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I bias but I think NSU is a great school, we have a few issues as far as adminstration is concerned and the curriculum for the 2nd years have changed every year for the past two years but the location is great & the rotations very across the state. including georgia
 

Sinfest

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Just curious, how are grades handed out at both schools (pass/fail, letter grades, etc)?

I would look it up myself, but I'm currently posting from my phone and I won't be near my computer until Sunday haha
 

MynameisMike

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is it true that NSU requires you to attend all classes? I spoke with my DO physician and he said when he interviewed there he didnt like that they recorded attendance and also to always be dressed professionally for all classes.

I'm more of a self studier, so this would affect my decision
 

Sam212

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is it true that NSU requires you to attend all classes? I spoke with my DO physician and he said when he interviewed there he didnt like that they recorded attendance and also to always be dressed professionally for all classes.

I'm more of a self studier, so this would affect my decision
Definitely not true, know several people who attend there, none attend class
 
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munchymanRX

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is it true that NSU requires you to attend all classes? I spoke with my DO physician and he said when he interviewed there he didnt like that they recorded attendance and also to always be dressed professionally for all classes.

I'm more of a self studier, so this would affect my decision


Attendance is 70% (not enforced), and dress is either business casual, or you can just wear scrubs. Nothing wrong with that--scrubs are pretty damn comfortable.

Grading is on a percentage scale (0-100%)
 

Sinfest

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Attendance is 70% (not enforced), and dress is either business casual, or you can just wear scrubs. Nothing wrong with that--scrubs are pretty damn comfortable.

Grading is on a percentage scale (0-100%)
So for example, your official transcript would say something along the line of: "Biochemistry: 85%"?
 

Dr Fraggle

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Attendance at NSU is recorded via swipe-ins before each class with your ID. They require about 70% attendance, except for some classes that are 100% attendance required. Some people don't care much about their attendance and get by with little. However, it is a requirement, so there is no telling when or if the admin might lay down the hammer. It has been done in the past, mainly when deans hour is poorly attended. NEVER skip out on the dean. Some professors will give pop quizzes (opp). But the risk is yours, if you want to skip or not. There were some classes that I got more out of studying on my own than sitting in lecture.

Dress code really isn't much of an issue. Just wear ceil blue scrubs and you will be fine. That's what most everyone does. Always bring your white coat to deans hour and spe's.

I don't know anything about the CA school, but I do go to NSU. We have had some issues with admin and with curriculum changes. Things seem to be working out nicely now for the upcoming classes. Nsu can be expensive and davie can be pricey right around campus. You will need a car, as Florida has crappy public transportation... Unless you are in the dorms. They have a shuttle.

The school can be a bit beaurocratic, but I suppose most schools are like that. They also have a habit of not mentioning important details about policy, so just make sure you stay on top of things.

Also be aware that we do rotation schedules on a monthly basis, instead of four weeks. So that may be an issue for some. Also we do not have a singular hospital for rotations. They are spread out over the state and beyond. Also we do have that two month rural rotation that can be a bit annoying for some, as it can potentially take up slots for your audition rotations.

Other than that, it is a good school, with a great opp department and great rotation sites. Good luck with your decision.
 

ILikeFood

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So for example, your official transcript would say something along the line of: "Biochemistry: 85%"?
Yes. I hear 3rd/4th year is H/P/F, but I'll have to wait until then to tell you for sure.
 

Sinfest

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I'm hoping one of the NSU students in this thread can answer this for me.

How do you guys feel about not having any electives during your third year, and possibly not being able to do electives until after you have submitted your application for residencies (if you're one of the unfortunate ones that must do their rural and EM rotations early on)? I would imagine this would put you at a huge disadvantage if you're applying to very competitive residencies without any experience/LORs in the field.
 

Sinfest

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Also, does NSU have a high attrition rate? The 2010 match list has only 175 people.
 

Lukat

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Also, does NSU have a high attrition rate? The 2010 match list has only 175 people.
I know, it's my concern too... Their class is about 230... so the rest of the students didn't match?
 

Sinfest

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It's more likely that they have been increasing their class sizes over the past few years
I think I remember seeing a post from 2005 earlier today that said their class size was in the 200's at that time.
 

IamaBanana

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There are a lot of things that happen at the end of the year. Some people don't go straight to residency in favor of international work, research, family, etc. (said in my best ShyRem voice)

As far as numbers go, the CIB says they have 924 total medical students which gives an average class size (ie for the four years currently there) of 231 with a first year enrollment of 234. So a few people do drop out during school but that is to be expected. Is it possible that 50-something people either dropped out or never matched? I doubt it, and while we don't know exactly where they are given the strength of the match list I find it hard to believe that very many of them are doing anything they aren't happy with.
 
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munchymanRX

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Thanks

What did you end up choosing?


I haven't yet!!


I'm basing my decision at this point, after much flip flopping, on the following question:

Which school will allow me to match back into California for residency with greater ease? Also, is this ease significantly greater?
 

Sinfest

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I haven't yet!!


I'm basing my decision at this point, after much flip flopping, on the following question:

Which school will allow me to match back into California for residency with greater ease? Also, is this ease significantly greater?
Really? After looking at the NSU thread it seemed like you were set on that school haha

I asked myself the same question, and after some thinking Touro-CA beat NSU in that regard. NSU has great core rotation sites that are no doubt better than Touro-CA's. But the thing about NSU is you only have part of your 4th year to do electives, and it's a possibility that you may not start your electives until you have submitted your application to residency programs if you're stuck doing the rural med rotations early on. Based off my limited knowledge on the subject of residencies, this would be a big problem if you want PD's at CA residency programs to know who you are.

Touro-CA allows you to do 2 months of electives during 3rd year, plus a whole year of electives during 4th year. I'm sure setting up all of those electives will be a huge pain in the ass, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Of course what matters most are your grades/board scores/LORs/etc. I just feel like doing electives in CA hospitals would help one land a residency spot in CA, and this is what Touro-CA provides more easily than NSU.
 

SFO-IST

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Here's the problem with Touro: If you look at their listed core rotation sites, MOST are outside of the bay area. There are so few local sites, that they can't even keep their students in California. You'll be playing the lottery if you go there. With NSU, your rotations are solid and local. Since the tuition and cost of living is also cheaper, you could position yourself to use that savings in setting up rotations yourself during your 3/4 years at california hospitals. Touro was my #1 choice due to location, but the dicy 3/4 years made it drop in my mind after comparing it with NSU. Just my $0.02.
 

Sinfest

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Here's the problem with Touro: If you look at their listed core rotation sites, MOST are outside of the bay area. There are so few local sites, that they can't even keep their students in California. You'll be playing the lottery if you go there. With NSU, your rotations are solid and local. Since the tuition and cost of living is also cheaper, you could position yourself to use that savings in setting up rotations yourself during your 3/4 years at california hospitals. Touro was my #1 choice due to location, but the dicy 3/4 years made it drop in my mind after comparing it with NSU. Just my $0.02.
I completely agree with you regarding the first bolded point. Like I said in my post before yours, NSU has great core rotation sites that are better than Touro-CA's. Period. Over half of the students stay in CA for core rotations, but many do end up leaving the state. My understanding is that most students apply for core sites in the Bay Area, making it difficult to land a spot there. This isn't a problem for me since I want to come back to socal during 3rd year, and they offer core sites down here that aren't as high in demand.

Regarding the second bolded point, it's not possible to set up rotations in CA during your 3rd year at NSU since you have no electives. The earliest will be your 4th year, even possibly a few months into your 4th year, which can be a bit worrisome if you want to do some audition rotations prior to applying to residency programs. This was my biggest issue with NSU.
 

koan

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Here's the problem with Touro: If you look at their listed core rotation sites, MOST are outside of the bay area. There are so few local sites, that they can't even keep their students in California. You'll be playing the lottery if you go there. With NSU, your rotations are solid and local. Since the tuition and cost of living is also cheaper, you could position yourself to use that savings in setting up rotations yourself during your 3/4 years at california hospitals. Touro was my #1 choice due to location, but the dicy 3/4 years made it drop in my mind after comparing it with NSU. Just my $0.02.
FYI, at the interview Touro admin told us that by 2013 our entire class would have the ability to do core rotations in the Bay Area, if they wanted to. They are expanding those sites due to demand from students, apparently. Also, for students who have some compelling reason to stay in the Bay Area (or California) there is an exemption system in place for the lottery. For example, if you're married and your wife / husband works in SF you could presumably be exempted from the lottery.

I don't know anything about NSU, so I can't really compare the two schools. But I chose Touro based on having heard good things from current students about the clinical years.
 

emjayel

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I've been accepted to Nova. I decided not to even submit a secondary to Touro.....I live about 20 minutes from Vallejo, and Vallejo is whack. I couldn't imagine going to med school out there. And I need a change of scenery, away from the Bay Area for awhile.

This probably hasn't helped your decision at all, ha.
 

heroes31

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I've been accepted to Nova. I decided not to even submit a secondary to Touro.....I live about 20 minutes from Vallejo, and Vallejo is whack. I couldn't imagine going to med school out there. And I need a change of scenery, away from the Bay Area for awhile.

This probably hasn't helped your decision at all, ha.
Sort of similar story. I was accepted to NSU and afterward received an interview invite from Touro-CA as well as Touro-NY and Touro-NV. I declined the interview to all three touros frankly because I don't like the negative reputation Touro has. Im sure Touro produces excellent physicians and if that is the school you decide on, im sure you will do great. When given a choice, I decided I would rather not be associated for the rest of my life with the Touro name.
 
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Sort of similar story. I was accepted to NSU and afterward received an interview invite from Touro-CA as well as Touro-NY and Touro-NV. I declined the interview to all three touros frankly because I don't like the negative reputation Touro has. Im sure Touro produces excellent physicians and if that is the school you decide on, im sure you will do great. When given a choice, I decided I would rather not be associated for the rest of my life with the Touro name.
3 Touro interview invites as well, but for the same reason listed above, I canceled all of them. My vote goes to Nova.
 

koan

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Sort of similar story. I was accepted to NSU and afterward received an interview invite from Touro-CA as well as Touro-NY and Touro-NV. I declined the interview to all three touros frankly because I don't like the negative reputation Touro has. Im sure Touro produces excellent physicians and if that is the school you decide on, im sure you will do great. When given a choice, I decided I would rather not be associated for the rest of my life with the Touro name.
Could either of you give specifics as to the "negative reputation" attributed to Touro? It seems to be perpetuated based on some ambiguous bias that likely originated (and stops) on SDN.
 
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munchymanRX

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Could either of you give specifics as to the "negative reputation" attributed to Touro? It seems to be perpetuated based on some ambiguous bias that likely originated (and stops) on SDN.

Not as ambiguous as you might think. The main problem on SDN seems to be with the way rotations are set up at Touro. While you have the opportunity to rotate in the Bay Area, you're not guaranteed a spot there, and you could end up going all over the damn place depending on how your luck is in their lottery system.

You pick your sites, submit them, the computer rolls the dice, and then spits out where you're going. Extenuating circumstances aside, I've heard many TouroCA students complain about the logistical pain in the ass of not really having set rotation sites.

The staff at Touro also tend to be a bit disingenuous when plugging their school. There's another user on SDN who has posted a list of questions you should ask your interviewer, should you have an interview date in Vallejo. Try to remember that if something's too good to be true (guaranteed rotations in the Bay Area, for instance), it probably is.

Staff also has a reputation for high turnover and this translates down to more negative experiences when students go to ask for help, especially during the scramble for rotations.

HOWEVER, the reason I'm having such a hard time deciding is the proximity to home. I'm Bay Area born and raised, so it's a bit of a tough call. =(
 

Sinfest

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Not as ambiguous as you might think. The main problem on SDN seems to be with the way rotations are set up at Touro. While you have the opportunity to rotate in the Bay Area, you're not guaranteed a spot there, and you could end up going all over the damn place depending on how your luck is in their lottery system.

You pick your sites, submit them, the computer rolls the dice, and then spits out where you're going. Extenuating circumstances aside, I've heard many TouroCA students complain about the logistical pain in the ass of not really having set rotation sites.

The staff at Touro also tend to be a bit disingenuous when plugging their school. There's another user on SDN who has posted a list of questions you should ask your interviewer, should you have an interview date in Vallejo. Try to remember that if something's too good to be true (guaranteed rotations in the Bay Area, for instance), it probably is.

Staff also has a reputation for high turnover and this translates down to more negative experiences when students go to ask for help, especially during the scramble for rotations.

HOWEVER, the reason I'm having such a hard time deciding is the proximity to home. I'm Bay Area born and raised, so it's a bit of a tough call. =(
IIRC, NSU has a lottery system as well.

But I agree with all of your points
 

patel2

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At my NSU interview, the presentation said that only 85% pass the comlex first time around. they emphasized that this was in line with the national average, but still, that sounds very lousy to me! I don't know if the match lists are reflecting that people are having to do 5th years or flunking out.

Also to those that attend...what do you think of the grading system? It sucks that it isn't pass/fail, and actually gives you numbers right on your transcript. Do preclinical grades not matter if you do well on the boards, pass comfortably (i'm not shooting for barely passing or anything), and have good rotation recs? I would hate to have to learn a bunch of irrelevant, esoteric details about a professors dumb research on cranial, and how it is the most scientific advancement of our generation, so that my course grade is a few points higher.
 

Booster

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Also to those that attend...what do you think of the grading system? It sucks that it isn't pass/fail, and actually gives you numbers right on your transcript. Do preclinical grades not matter if you do well on the boards, pass comfortably (i'm not shooting for barely passing or anything), and have good rotation recs? I would hate to have to learn a bunch of irrelevant, esoteric details about a professors dumb research on cranial, and how it is the most scientific advancement of our generation, so that my course grade is a few points higher.
Grading system is fine. I like the numbers because if I received a 87% (what would be a "B" in undergrad) versus an 82% (again, what would be a "B" in undergrad), it at least shows that I had a higher "B" and it helps with class ranking as it distinguishes between those who had a low B and high B average. Hope that makes sense for you.

As far as preclinical grades and their importance...I think that depends on the person and/or attending you speak with. To some, preclinical grades are important, and to others it is not so much.

Also, the way they teach so far (I am a M1 and finishing my first semester), they teach you right from the book and not on information based on their research.
 

AlisonNoelle

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I'm a current 2nd year at Touro-Ca and while there are quite a few posts that bring up concerning topics for applicants when choosing a school, I'll address the issues regarding rotations and the school in general.

Current rotation spots include California (Long Beach, Colton, Chino hills, Santa Maria, Santa Rosa, Vacaville/Fairfield, the Bay Area), Michigan (outskirts of Detroit), New york, Oregon, Colorado and Pennsylvania. Exemptions can and are made on a case-by-case basis and the selection process is a "computer rolling the dice" BUT almost everyone gets their 1st or 2nd choice and for those who don't there might be other circumstances determining placement. Currently, there are enough rotation sites to do all of the rotations in California. Touro is still growing, so the fact that not all of the students do their 3rd and 4th years in Vallejo or the greater Bay Area is a dynamic process. Moreover, there are a significant number of rotation spots available within a 2 hour radius of campus, with more in the making.

The school itself has mixed opinions from outsiders as well as insiders. From my personal experience (and take it for whatever bias you may see it as), I've seen successful students do amazing on boards/rotations/matching and I know that Touro prepares you for doing well in all aspects. Like I said before, Touro is a fairly new school and thus it is growing and making changes with every year and I've experienced the benefit of change and helped have a voice in what can be changed for years to come. I absolutely love the faculty-student relationships. My classmates and I find it so easy to approach faculty to discuss academic as well as personal matters. I'm glad I chose Touro and, as I'm getting ready to hear the results of our rotation lottery, I'm hoping I get to do my rotations in Southern California (which means I'm actually willing and want to move).

The best part of being a medical student and a physician (I speculate) is being adaptable. Medicine and the education process is forever changing and if you are too stubborn to change and accommodate newness, you're going to find yourself struggling. You can't expect to be in the same exact space for 4 years (especially since no matter where you end up, you'll be moving around a lot during 4th year). A friend of mine who is a 3rd year at LECOM Lake Erie told me that I would be better off spending my 3rd year in many hospitals and look at it as an opportunity to sample hospitals and regions early on. Touro give you opportunities to do rotations at a single hospital or in many hospitals. You all know what your personality is like and that's an important thing to be comfortable with when making a decision for a medical school, rotation site(s), residencies, etc. I urge you, however, to consider the sources of information before making decisions based on hearsay. I'd be happy to entertain personal questions in a private message, but I will also try to follow the tread if possible.