Nurse Practitioner misidentifies birthmarks as signs of abuse leds to doctor couple husband wife pedsonc-ER med to lose custody of child.

[Modanq]

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there's no proof.

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there’s no proof.

After a physician worried he’d hurt his baby, his own hospital reported abuse. Now fellow doctors are raising concerns about an “out of control” system.

www.nbcnews.com

Lol. Independent practice. Nurses education.

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[coffeebythelake]

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there's no proof.

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there’s no proof.

After a physician worried he’d hurt his baby, his own hospital reported abuse. Now fellow doctors are raising concerns about an “out of control” system.

www.nbcnews.com

Lol. Independent practice. Nurses education.

It started with a nurse practitioner. Unfortunately it seems that several pediatricians were also involves in perpetuating this.

 

[GaseousClay]

This is infuriating. Physicians and midlevels overstepping their bounds to act like superheros when in fact they don't know squat. The audacity of some of the child abuse experts claiming they are better equipped to determine what a bruise vs birthmark is than multiple pediatric dermatologists. I hope the Cox family wins millions in a lawsuit against this group of people.

 

[AMEHigh]

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there's no proof.

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there’s no proof.

After a physician worried he’d hurt his baby, his own hospital reported abuse. Now fellow doctors are raising concerns about an “out of control” system.

www.nbcnews.com

Lol. Independent practice. Nurses education.

Did you read the entire article?
I know there seems to be an assault on NPs, but I certainly wouldn’t blame this case on the NP. Lots of doctors and other specialists involved. The NP wasn’t the first to examine the baby. What a messed up system.

 

[Modanq]

Did you read the entire article?
I know there seems to be an assault on NPs, but I certainly wouldn’t blame this case on the NP. Lots of doctors and other specialists involved. The NP wasn’t the first to examine the baby. What a messed up system.

fair. The system...

 

[DarkHorizon]

Infuriating as a parent. Cannot even imagine this happening and what the parents must be going through. Absolute shame.

 

[nimbus]

Not the first time. This happened to my aunt and uncle in Dallas during the 1970s. The doctors (MDs) hadn’t seen a Mongolian spot before and thought my cousin was being abused. Diversity training actually matters.

 

[Gastrapathy]

What a terrible story but the real villain as described is Dr. Lynn Sheets and the program she’s created. If they felt safe to do this to two doctors, you can bet she’s done it to a thousand others. I think the title needs changing.

My then 3 year old daughter got a no **** black eye from running into her mom’s elbow chasing after her across the couch during a doozy of a tantrum. We took our daughter in because I thought she might have concussed herself. Guess that was the wrong choice. I was teasing her now teenage self about it last week but if I’d run into Dr Sheets or her pet NP, maybe it wouldn’t be so funny.

The idea that there are no innocent bruises is absurd. Of course some bruises won’t be innocent but the goal shouldn’t be to be so sensitive that they lose all specificity when you think about the harm they can do. I mean we can give everyone with iron deficiency chemo because some of them will have cancer too.

 

[abolt18]

What a terrible story but the real villain as described is Dr. Lynn Sheets and the program she’s created. If they felt safe to do this to two doctors, you can bet she’s done it to a thousand others. I think the title needs changing.

My then 3 year old daughter got a no **** black eye from running into her mom’s elbow chasing after her across the couch during a doozy of a tantrum. We took our daughter in because I thought she might have concussed herself. Guess that was the wrong choice. I was teasing her now teenage self about it last week but if I’d run into Dr Sheets or her pet NP, maybe it wouldn’t be so funny.

The idea that there are no innocent bruises is absurd. Of course some bruises won’t be innocent but the goal shouldn’t be to be so sensitive that they lose all specificity when you think about the harm they can do. I mean we can give everyone with iron deficiency chemo because some of them will have cancer too.

No innocent bruises... You should see my kids by the end of summer. They're so wild and play so hard they are always covered in bruises!

 

[coffeebythelake]

www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-gizzell-ford-civil-trial-20171213-story.html

When juries award $50 million dollars verdict against doctors who "miss" signs of child abuse what do you think would happen?

 

[AMEHigh]

Not the first time. This happened to my aunt and uncle in Dallas during the 1970s. The doctors (MDs) hadn’t seen a Mongolian spot before and thought my cousin was being abused. Diversity training actually matters.

Yep, and like the article said people of color are more likely to be accused of child abuse. I certainly understand being a mandated reporter but that system of looking through charts where no one was concerned and asking doctors to change their documentation is beyond upsetting. It’s no wonder some people and particularly people from certain cultural groups don’t trust doctors/the medical system.

 

[AdmiralChz]

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there's no proof.

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there’s no proof.

After a physician worried he’d hurt his baby, his own hospital reported abuse. Now fellow doctors are raising concerns about an “out of control” system.

www.nbcnews.com

Lol. Independent practice. Nurses education.

Beware this author. I unfortunately know him personally and he crusades against docs in general - takes anecdotal stories and makes them info monumental treatises on the institution of medicine and failings of specific institutions. Usually he has the help of disgruntled former employees who feed the fire.

Read the article, this is nothing about NP authority. The author has been crusading so much against child abuse pediatricians the AAP newsletter even put out a release about it here:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/13/commentary011320?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

 

[dabears505]

Honestly that story seems kind of fishy. Rolling onto sleeping baby and breaking collar bone? Calling wife and crying about it? Looks a little suspicious to me

 

[Gastrapathy]

http://ohioaap.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/701.full_.pdf

You can draw your own conclusions

 

[nimbus]

http://ohioaap.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/701.full_.pdf

You can draw your own conclusions

Sounds like those parents got caught up in Dr. Sheets’ career agenda/crusade.

 

[deleted162650]

No innocent bruises... You should see my kids by the end of summer. They're so wild and play so hard they are always covered in bruises!

That’s the story you’re going with, huh?

 

[ShockIndex]

Sounds like those parents got caught up in Dr. Sheets’ career agenda/crusade.

Honestly that story seems kind of fishy. Rolling onto sleeping baby and breaking collar bone? Calling wife and crying about it? Looks a little suspicious to me

The crying part I understand since many pediatric EPs are functionally big children. On the other hand, other aspects of the story don’t make a lick of sense on several levels. First, a pediatric EP should know that co-sleeping with a 1-month old is going to raise eyebrows among their colleagues. Second, what did he think would happen if his 1-month old actually had a clavicle fracture? These fractures heal in most newborns with no intervention, and a major focus in the ED would be to document other signs of abuse if one was found.

Third and most importantly, if you are being detained by the cops or if any government agency wants to interview you - STFU and strongly consider getting a lawyer. I don’t care if it’s a cop asking if you know why he stopped you, a FBI agent wanting to talk about your mortgage application, or a DSS worker wanting to see your kids - you had better call Saul. Doctors too often think that they can explain their way out of situations and end up hanging themselves. This is especially true if you’re guilty.

 

[Pharmado]

The study by Sheets seems like a pointless piece of obvious garbage. 27.5% of abused children have a sentinel injury. That seems relatively low all things considered. It’s also somewhat obvious. Abused kids were possibly abused as infants, gee thanks. The bigger question for me would be ‘how many children with sentinel injuries go on to be abused?’ If 75-80% or more go on to be abused then action should be taken and maybe this crusade isn’t so crazy. If a smaller number like 20% go on to be abused, then these families should be watched and counseled and removing the child is abuse in itself. Taking a child from a home should be a last resort.

 

[PieOHmy]

REcognizing child abuse is a required course for all doctors renewal license. Thats what is going to happen

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

REcognizing child abuse is a required course for all doctors renewal license. Thats what is going to happen

No its not. Its state dependent and its not universal by any means.

 

[AdmiralChz]

REcognizing child abuse is a required course for all doctors renewal license. Thats what is going to happen

Come again? Not in my state as I’m up for renewal this year...

 

[deleted941485]

My brother got a 2nd degree burn on his arm after he caught a hot pan on it.

My mother (single mom worked 2 jobs) flipped and had to make a gametime decision. Take him to the ED and maybe end up in police custody and a bill OR go to the pharmacy and grab some bandages and make do.

I can only imagine what those do good zealots would have done had she gone with the former.

 

[Piebaldi]

This is infuriating. Physicians and midlevels overstepping their bounds to act like superheros when in fact they don't know squat. The audacity of some of the child abuse experts claiming they are better equipped to determine what a bruise vs birthmark is than multiple pediatric dermatologists. I hope the Cox family wins millions in a lawsuit against this group of people.

I hope they sue as well. I was just reading that in FL the lead speaker of house of representatives claims that "he believes" that midlevels and physicians provide same level of care.

Then I say let's start eliminating med schools, board certification, etc. why do we need both? It's ridiculous. Why are we required to be "board certified" when nurses who know nothing practice "independently"? unbelievable.

 

[deleted941485]

I hope they sue as well. I was just reading that in FL the lead speaker of house of representatives claims that "he believes" that midlevels and physicians provide same level of care.

Then I say let's start eliminating med schools, board certification, etc. why do we need both? It's ridiculous. Why are we required to be "board certified" when nurses who know nothing practice "independently"? unbelievable.

It’s truly egregious that they can say things like that in a public forum and get away with it and be cheered on

 

[KeikoTanaka]

It’s truly egregious that they can say things like that in a public forum and get away with it and be cheered on

I don't trust anything coming out of Florida. It's a cesspool of everything wrong with America. You get a bunch of Boomers and Southerners meeting in one alcoholic-party-spring-break- alligator infested place, and you get the craziest stuff happening

 

[ShockIndex]

I don't trust anything coming out of Florida. It's a cesspool of everything wrong with America. You get a bunch of Boomers and Southerners meeting in one alcoholic-party-spring-break- alligator infested place, and you get the craziest stuff happening

If you think that “Florida Man” is bad, wait until you meet West Virginia Woman...or Tennessee Doctor...

 

[chocomorsel]

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there's no proof.

An ER doctor was charged with abusing his baby. But 15 medical experts say there’s no proof.

After a physician worried he’d hurt his baby, his own hospital reported abuse. Now fellow doctors are raising concerns about an “out of control” system.

www.nbcnews.com

Lol. Independent practice. Nurses education.

It was not the NP who initially reported it. It was his old boss. And then the NP jumped in I guess. I stopped reading after that point. That his old boss who had no concerns, reported him. Way to go!! With friends lije

So your child can never ever have a bruise lest you be reported for abuse. I mean, it doesn’t take much to give a white kid a bruise.
And you aren’t allowed to spank your kid either, cuz that is considered abuse to a lot of people.
Wow.

We are really heading in a positive direction.

 

[chocomorsel]

REcognizing child abuse is a required course for all doctors renewal license. Thats what is going to happen

I think this is already happening in Pennsylvania. Thought about applying for a license there again, then got turned off. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[chocomorsel]

Honestly, if you have no concerns of abuse, why the F are you reporting it to the abuse pediatrician? What’s Pomeranz’s angle?

It is sad how the NP doesn’t know birthmarks from bruises though. But she didn’t start this **** show. She just kept it going. One of many.

But yeah, as a pediatrician you know damn well not to sleep with a baby. Stupid, but not criminal in this case.

 

[nimbus]

Sleeping with babies is the norm in a large portion of the world.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Sleeping with babies is the norm in a large portion of the world.

One of the reasons infant mortality is so high in a large portion of the world

 

[ShockIndex]

It was not the NP who initially reported it. It was his old boss. And then the NP jumped in I guess. I stopped reading after that point. That his old boss who had no concerns, reported him. Way to go!! With friends lije

So your child can never ever have a bruise lest you be reported for abuse. I mean, it doesn’t take much to give a white kid a bruise.
And you aren’t allowed to spank your kid either, cuz that is considered abuse to a lot of people.
Wow.

We are really heading in a positive direction.

I just use my dog’s shock collar. It doesn’t leave any marks at most voltages. Besides, he doesn’t even know that it’s me shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is always watching and knows when he has been bad.

 

[atomheart]

But yeah, as a pediatrician you know damn well not to sleep with a baby.

I do not believe this is in line with current thought on the matter of co-sleeping.

To Co-sleep or Not to Co-sleep?

One of the greatest concerns for new parents is the safety of their newborn babies and a controversial topic along that line is how best to put infants to sleep. As is often the case, modern…

www.acpeds.org

New Guidelines Acknowledge The Reality: Babies Do Sleep In Mom's Bed

There's no question bed sharing increases the risk of sudden death, pediatricians say. New guidelines are aimed at reducing that risk as much as possible in the first year of a child's life.

www.npr.org

 

[IlDestriero]

I saw this on Twitter.
<SPOILER ALERT>
My favorite part is the abuse specialist Nurse Practitioner saying she was an expert in recognizing bruises associated with child abuse and NOT the Pediatric Dermatologist who said most of the marks were not even bruises at all, but birthmarks. Second favorite part was the concealed photos only shared with police and not in the record that showed a big bruise on the heel ... which was from their heel stick for labs.
What a travesty. I can’t imagine how a low income family can deal with these wackos.
Kids get hurt, parents even drop them, etc. and it’s not abuse. Now they are apparently chasing these phantom sentinel events as evidence of abuse. Nonsense. It’s just unbelievable.

 

[psychbender]

I think this is already happening in Pennsylvania. Thought about applying for a license there again, then got turned off. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

No, that's correct. PA mandates a few hours of recognizing could abuse CME (several free sources online that take a while to click through). Many states have some little extra requirement. One of my other states requires hours specifically in safe opioid prescribing and recognising opioid abuse, even for physicians that do not prescribe at all.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I do not believe this is in line with current thought on the matter of co-sleeping.

To Co-sleep or Not to Co-sleep?

One of the greatest concerns for new parents is the safety of their newborn babies and a controversial topic along that line is how best to put infants to sleep. As is often the case, modern…

www.acpeds.org

New Guidelines Acknowledge The Reality: Babies Do Sleep In Mom's Bed

There's no question bed sharing increases the risk of sudden death, pediatricians say. New guidelines are aimed at reducing that risk as much as possible in the first year of a child's life.

www.npr.org

Did you actually read the guidelines?

They basically say "bed sharing is dangerous and we don't recommend it, but since you're going to do it anyway here's how to do it as safely a possible"

 

[IlDestriero]

They may have a duty to report, and a requirement to investigate, but when their conclusions are all faulty and not supported by the evidence, when they claim superior knowledge to pediatric specialists, etc. it sounds an awful lot like malpractice. And maybe they need a multimillion dollar wake up call.
Not to mention trolling the ED charts for potential abuse when the providers involved, EM Physician specialists are not concerned, being asked to change notes, etc. malpractice, fraud, abuse.
If someone asked me to change my note about something I’d be on the phone with risk management and the head of nursing within 10 minutes. I’m not committing malpractice for your fantasy concerns about abuse or whatever. If you disagree, you put your name and career on that chart and write whatever you want.

 

[nimbus]

One of the reasons infant mortality is so high in a large portion of the world

Cosleeping is not why infant mortality is high.

 

[deleted162650]

I just use my dog’s shock collar. It doesn’t leave any marks at most voltages. Besides, he doesn’t even know that it’s me shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is always watching and knows when he has been bad.

Username checks out.

 

[dchz]

Not the first time. This happened to my aunt and uncle in Dallas during the 1970s. The doctors (MDs) hadn’t seen a Mongolian spot before and thought my cousin was being abused. Diversity training actually matters.

I sh1t you not: my best friend had a child recently. His wife, an endocrinologist, mentioned in passing that the bruise on the baby's ankle was healing kinda slow. I look her dead in the eye "you're joking right? That's a Mongolian spot!! FFS your husband is MONGOLIAN!!!"

They live in Dallas.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Cosleeping is not why infant mortality is high.

Not in the entirety, but it's a factor

 

[dchz]

If you think that “Florida Man” is bad, wait until you meet West Virginia Woman...or Tennessee Doctor...

Dr. Death was a Tennessee doctor

 

[KungPOWChicken]

I just use my dog’s shock collar. It doesn’t leave any marks at most voltages. Besides, he doesn’t even know that it’s me shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is always watching and knows when he has been bad.

We employ the same method with our CRNA’s. Miss an intubation. Get a shock. Don’t correct the BP fast enough. Get a shock. Amazingly our first pass success is near 100%

 

[nimbus]

Not in the entirety, but it's a factor

While not zero, SIDS is exceedingly rare whether you cosleep or not. It represents a minuscule percentage of infant deaths worldwide.



This link shows the actual causes of infant mortality worldwide.

Child mortality

<p>•••Trends in child mortality:• The world has seen dramatic reductions of 60% in under-five mortality from 93 deaths per 1000 live births in 1990 to 38 in 2019. The global burden of child and youth deaths however remains immense. In 2019 alone, 7.4 million...

www.who.int

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

While not zero, SIDS is exceedingly rare whether you cosleep or not. It represents a minuscule percentage of infant deaths worldwide.



This link shows the actual causes of infant mortality worldwide.

Child mortality

<p>•••Trends in child mortality:• The world has seen dramatic reductions of 60% in under-five mortality from 93 deaths per 1000 live births in 1990 to 38 in 2019. The global burden of child and youth deaths however remains immense. In 2019 alone, 7.4 million...

www.who.int

We don't actually know that. Outside of OECD countries, the data about SIDS just isn't there like it is within OECD countries.

Your own link even says that for countries without high-quality vital statistics about cause of death they use statistical methods to essentially guess the cause of death.

 

[atomheart]

Did you actually read the guidelines?

They basically say "bed sharing is dangerous and we don't recommend it, but since you're going to do it anyway here's how to do it as safely a possible"

Yes I quickly read the guideline and then skimmed through the evidence. This is likely a grade C evidence guideline, if that. Just because a group of people can offer a recommendation doesn't mean they should. Accidents happen quite frequently in pediatrics for innumerable reasons. It is unclear in this instance if this is an accident, or if it truly occurred due to cosleeping.

 

[chocomorsel]

I just use my dog’s shock collar. It doesn’t leave any marks at most voltages. Besides, he doesn’t even know that it’s me shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is always watching and knows when he has been bad.

Wow. Totally love this. Hilarious!!!

 

[chocomorsel]

Sleeping with babies is the norm in a large portion of the world.

I did not know this. I grew up in a third world country and we use bassinets. And cribs.

 

[Pharmado]

While a peds ER doc should know better than to co-sleep, it doesn’t mean that was his intention. It may well have been, but infants are exhausting. Sometimes what starts as holding the baby turns into co-sleep.

the real tragedy seems to be that the preponderance of evidence supports this not being abuse, yet the child was taken from the home anyway. Not only does the evidence not support abuse, it is a “sentinel event” that indicates abuse may occur in the future. Everything about this is wrong.

 

[Pharmado]

And how do these abuse specialists get away with chart checking patients without a consult or family consent? That’s a blatant HIPAA violation.