I'm not sure if your remarks are directed at me, but I'm assuming that's the case because you quoted something I said. The only reason I responded in the first place was to defend nurses, because I thought the OP was annoyed that pre-medical students were basically saying the nurses knew no more than a technician or PCA who had taken a short course. My last response to somebody on this forum was one in which I admitted I hadn't read the whole thread, or whatever thread preceded this one. I'm really not sure anymore who has been hurling insults at whom, but I think the whole thing got completely out of hand.
I did (in the end) agree that there are some nurses who are prideful and dangerous, and others who are amazing and keep prideful physicians from harming patients.
In response to your statements, there is incompetence and negligence at EVERY level of health care, and it usually stems from either laziness or unwillingness of some HCP to admit what they don't know, and mistakes ensue. That's why medical schools, nursing schools, and PA schools are looking for candidates with character and integrity in addition to academic ability.
As for the most recent statements, Nasrudin pointed out correctly that some programs are more difficult than others. And bleargh was right that difficulty is completely subjective. My brother-in-law played video games and didn't work very hard to graduate with a 3.94 in chemical engineering. He has an unusual aptitude for mathematics and physical sciences. But he would have struggled with biochemistry, and he'd have a harder time in med school (by his own assessment) than he is having in an Ivy League PhD program in engineering because he hasn't developed the study skills necessary to assimilate large quantities of information...though he has no problem with the conceptual work in his program, and is graduating early while raising two baby girls. He also would have had a hard time achieving similar grades in an English or sociology major. I, on the other hand, probably wouldn't be able to handle an 18 credit course load in engineering and achieve better than a 3.0, but I can manage 18+ credits in biological sciences while working, doing research, and volunteering. We all have different innate skills, and it only matters that we find our niche.
There's a reason med schools don't care what you choose for a major, as long as you do well in pre-reqs, the MCAT, and whatever major you choose. Medicine is an incredibly diverse field, and it really does take all kinds to achieve a broad spectrum of talented physicians.
What I said was directed toward a tangent in this discussion and not to a particular person. Mostly I don't know anyone here, so that seems illogical and ridiculous to me.
It doesn't matter in terms of my points what your GPA is and what you think you know. My contention is that it's all about the patient, period. To me, that's where the rubber meets the road, regardless of role or title. Wise people in this field work together for the sake of the pt, regardless of their title. If that means you are in position of elevated hierarchy, great whatever. But don't let that get in the way of focusing on what's most important. Therefore, be openminded and put ego issues and such somewhere else. They don't belong as control factors when dealing with people's lives and quality of lives or respect for them as patients or their families as well.
And this goes for EVERYONE--nurses, docs, lab techs, rad tech, RTs, pharmacists, hazmat people, dietary, house keeping. . .it doesn't matter. The issue is who then what, where "who" is the patient and "what" directly relates to the patient and family.
If we forget the focus, our purpose there is nothing. Working in these roles is about much more than 'having a name and a number' so to speak. I don't want to ever forget that it's about them first and foremost.
Once you lose that, you just taking up space, oxygen, making some noise, and drawing a paycheck. Yes you have to maintain professional boundaries, but to me I don't ever want to forget what it's like to be a patient--or a mom with a critically ill child, or a daughter with a terminal parent or spouse or S.O. I think it is amazing how people can remove themselves so much from something b/c of a role. They seem to forget that they are made of the same stuff everyone else is; and that their illnesses and deaths or even going through these things with a loved one is inevitable.
Life is this fragile thread for all of us. And the process of living and suffering or dying is hard. The person in need is at the core of all of what we do. Without that, it's just best to stay in a research lab IMHO.
I have seen a lot of ego stuff from all areas, as riverjib has stated. As I said, reasonable mistakes are one thing. Mistakes and suffering brought on from ego-based nonsense, well, it's a special kind of intolerable offense.
It means a core narcissism got in the way of doing the right thing or what would have been the best thing for the patient. To this day I cannot fully describe the chronic, ongoing nausea and jaded sense of things that this kind of egomania produces. It's something one does not ever really get over--at least I hope not.
It is not about some abstract, nebulous ideal. And yes I realize hospitals and such need to make money as well. I'm not against reasonable use of free enterprise-especially when healthy competition improves services to patients. You can love the science--and also the applied science, which, like it or not,
is a HUGE part of medicine and nursing for that matter. (EBP has it's place, but it will and never can be the whole deal, for a number of important reasons.)
Thing is, clnical medicine and nursing and healthcare that is worth anything has to see the pt as primary in importance over things like pride and money--but especially pride. Pride is one of those perverse, inane, wasted, emotionally driven conditions that only hurts people, which includes the individual that has nailed his soul and whole being to it.
A number of other things mixed in and confused into this discussion (and the spin-offs), well, I think they are way off track. Again I don't see any RN here saying they think they have more overall education that most physicians. Please. But we are all there to observe, learn, use critical thinking and so forth--FOR THE SAKE OF THE PATIENT. A "Dr. House" view of nursing is completely idiotic and many wise physicians know it--and so do many patients--especially those that have been down the hard road of surgeries and illnesses before--or have been there with their kids or family members. Get really sick, and you will see the value of excellent and smart nursing will not escape you if you are an honest and fair-minded person. But it's still important to see that nursing has it's art and science and medicine has it's art and science, and sometimes things overlap. In the end, we are all there, at least in theory and principle, to help the patients/clients to the best of our roles and abilities.
I can assure you that whether as a nurse, charge nurse, or supervisor, I have never looked down on anyone, and I employ each person as my teacher; and I respect what each person does and who they are individually as a person.
I mean dissing and dismissing nurses like this is like saying all physicians look down on all others in the healthcare setting as well. They don't if they are wise. If they gained a good amount of wisdom, they are humble, decent human beings, regardless of their roles.
Nas, no disrespect at all, but often enough I only get maybe 50% of what I think you are trying to communicate--and I'm pretty right-brained. *shrug*
