ProZackMI said:
A professional doctorate, like the MD, JD, DDS, PharmD, etc., is a graduate degree because it is classified as a doctor's degree (the title DOCTOR is there for a reason; it's not an undergraduate degree, nor is it a master's degree); it is a degree that has a subject matter that requires a scope, breadth, complexity, and depth far beyond that of an undergraduate degree (usually in analysis, problem-solving, and application of skills as well as a copious amount of subject matter, principles, jargon, and nomenclature). In addition, a professional doctorate is also, usually, but not always, awarded after the receipt of a bachelor's degree.
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Let me ask you this: Who classified it as a doctor's degree? It wasn't academia! The professional organizations have the autonomy to decide what the entry level degree will be as they are in control of the accreditation of the programs. The academic institution is at the mercy of the accreditating body. Example: The PharmD, DPT, AudD, so and so on. They were BS trained just a few years ago, however, for political reasons (autonomy, reimbursement, direct access.....) have mandated that entry level is at a clinical doctorate. The only thing that changed for the student is more undergraduate coursework and financial dept. It wasn't changed because the material has the depth, complexity, and scope beyond that of an undergraduate degree! In fact the complexity and depth of the material in a DPT, PharmD, AudD isn't that impressive. There are many undergraduate degrees that offer more depth and complexity than any clinical doctorate that exists. I might add that a MA in philosophy requires a level of intellectual curiosity and academic sophistication that a biology degree cannot match.
I would also add that if a dissertation or thesis aren't relevant to the nature of the profession, neither is a masters or doctorate degree and the profession provides even more evidence of bachelors level education!
You're basically comparing trade school to graduate school. The difference is that professions like medicine, physical therapy, pharmacy, ect need PhD's to teach the material that is academic in nature. Basically you need the PhD's for the didactics before a student becomes a journeyman/woman for their clinical. It's the same thing that auto mechanics, electricians, and plumbers do. I'm not saying that a physical therapist or physician couldn't teach PT or medical students gross anatomy, but a physician or PT could never teach anatomy to the level and depth that a student studying to be an anatomist/physiologist would require.
I think that we can agree that medical school is demanding and a lot is thrown at a student over a short period of time. The problem is that the complexity and depth of the material isn't on par with graduate level work. In fact the complexity and depth of the material doesn't compare to undergraduate degrees in physics, chemistry, mathematics, ect. It may very well have equal or more volume, but the complexity and depth aren't there. It has been said best by somebody else on this forum. Medical school is 6 miles wide and 1 mile deep while academic degrees are 6 miles deep and 1 mile wide. I thought this was a neat observation.
Perhaps you don't agree with anything that I say, but I can understand why! It's a hard realization to think of what you have accomplished and then have somebody marginalize what it is you have done. My battle is more about higher education and for students than anything else. Education is a huge, very successful marketing scheme. Truly! At just about every academic institution you will see the faculty vs. administration battles/debates. Clearly the administration have PhD's, but the academic deans are faced with the burden was balancing finances with ethics in academia. For the president it's about balancing quality education, fiscal responsibility, attractive degree programs, and ENROLLMENT! Enrollment means offering to students what sells. In our "graduate programs" the clinical doctorates are selling very well. This is in some ways fueling the problem as it also helps the real graduate programs financially and it helps with grants ect. for research purposes, but it comes at a huge sacrifice. It really has distorted the minds of students who think they are earning a doctorate degree in physical therapy or pharmacy ect. They walk around saying, "I'm working on my doctorate in physical therapy" while the faculty simply laugh. It's embarrassing to work at such a respected institution and see that education itself has been marginalized by professional organizations that mandate these silly titles for political purposes and then the academic institution go along with it. Trust me - it's discussed a fair amount where I work, but there doesn't appear that there is anything that we can do about it in our current academic climate! So long doctors!
