Nursing assistant not clinical experience

[benegesserit4]

I have been working throughout college as a nursing assistant in a variety of settings - group home, home health care, hospital. At my most recent interview, my interviewer basically dismissed these experiences, saying they weren't actually clinical because all nursing assistants do is take vitals and clean people up, and also that I work with more with nurses and not doctors so it's not exposure to the physicians role. I have other shadowing and clinical experiences etc. in addition to being a nursing assistant, but I was shocked that she said that working as a NA "doesn't count". Is this a typical opinion among adcoms?

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[deleted480308]

I have been working throughout college as a nursing assistant in a variety of settings - group home, home health care, hospital. At my most recent interview, my interviewer basically dismissed these experiences, saying they weren't actually clinical because all nursing assistants do is take vitals and clean people up, and also that I work with more with nurses and not doctors so it's not exposure to the physicians role. I have other shadowing and clinical experiences etc. in addition to being a nursing assistant, but I was shocked that she said that working as a NA "doesn't count". Is this a typical opinion among adcoms?

it doesn't count as shadowing or knowing at all what doctors do

it does count as clinical experience

 

[Henchman21]

While it's true that it does not expose you to physician work, it disgusts me that they would dismiss it as non-clinical and/or otherwise irrelevant. That's the first time I've heard such a claim.

 

[popopopop]

Wow, **** her. That is so ignorant I don't even know where to start.

 

[benegesserit4]

I know!!

 

[deleted480308]

I know!!

in their defense, you used the qualifier "basically". What did they "literally" say?

 

[Hockeyfreak75]

Actually I would disagree, I work as a nursing assistant at a Hospital in Iowa and I gain a lot of insight as to what doctors do on a daily basis. Granted I don't get to know them well personally mainly because it is a teaching hospital so there is constantly residents rotating. However, monitoring vitals on extremely sick patients, learning what different medications do to different people, and collecting all of the samples that doctors order gives me a very good idea of what doctors do. Not to mention having multiple experiences as part of a code team and giving CPR on patients is invaluable experience that you cannot learn doing research.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have been working throughout college as a nursing assistant in a variety of settings - group home, home health care, hospital. At my most recent interview, my interviewer basically dismissed these experiences, saying they weren't actually clinical because all nursing assistants do is take vitals and clean people up, and also that I work with more with nurses and not doctors so it's not exposure to the physicians role. I have other shadowing and clinical experiences etc. in addition to being a nursing assistant, but I was shocked that she said that working as a NA "doesn't count". Is this a typical opinion among adcoms?

That individual has no idea what they're talking about. Clinical experience is, specifically, direct patient care. You are providing the most direct of patient care. I have several words for the person that interviewed you, but SDN would no doubt censor them all.

 

[hdmed1318]

WOAH. Three-year CNA here with thousands of hours of clinical experience and I can tell you right now it will make me a better doctor (currently an M0). What you need to do is think about all the experiences you've had, the patients you've helped, the diagnoses you've learned about and medications you've listened to a nurse explain - take all of that and realize just how much you've learned. I'm sure your patient care will be sincere, comforting and REAL from the moment you walk into real patient rooms. You will understand the daily grind of the nurses you're writing orders for, you will know that ordering lasix and prep for a colonoscopy for the morning at the same time is a living h*ll hole for the patient and nursing staff who help with the trips to the commode every 10 minutes (if that) and you will make better decisions without having to learn from your mistakes - because you've already been there. Don't let anyone tell you your experience isn't valuable enough. I have had physicians ask me for my observations with a patient because they know I spend more time 1:1 with them than anyone else - I bathe them, feed them, walk them, toilet them - everything. And you know this. So don't let some random interviewer tell you you're not worth it or that your job doesn't count as clinical experience. No "clinical experience" is ever going to be exactly the job of a physician, but you are gaining valuable insight into the world of medicine - which extends FAR beyond the job of doctor and works best when done as a team initiative.

I will say there is a difference between hospital CNA work and longterm care. A huge difference. I have med/surg and ICU experience on stroke, cardiac/tele, thoracic surgery, transplant and urology units. I've seen codes, intubations, behavioral health episodes, overdoses, a man with projectile diarrhea stuck on a trash can (yes, this happened)... the hospital is a crazy place. But you have gained valuable hands-on exposure to patients, which is more than other medical students can say. So know you're doing the right thing and continue working with your heart - because that's the only way you will survive being a CNA!!!

EDIT: Sorry I wanted to add, since you asked, that no that was not my experience at all with adcoms this cycle. Every MD interviewer only had positive words for me and my experience. I also wrote my personal statement around my position, which I think helped them understand what my world is actually like as a CNA. Best of luck!

 

[bornunderatree]

I have been working throughout college as a nursing assistant in a variety of settings - group home, home health care, hospital. At my most recent interview, my interviewer basically dismissed these experiences, saying they weren't actually clinical because all nursing assistants do is take vitals and clean people up, and also that I work with more with nurses and not doctors so it's not exposure to the physicians role. I have other shadowing and clinical experiences etc. in addition to being a nursing assistant, but I was shocked that she said that working as a NA "doesn't count". Is this a typical opinion among adcoms?

This is crazy. Totally clinical experience.

I had a friend who has been a critical care RN longer than me, told in an interview "he doesn't know what doctors do"

 

[LizzyM]

This is crazy. Totally clinical experience.

I had a friend who has been a critical care RN longer than me, told in an interview "he doesn't know what doctors do"

It does help to have had shadowing so that you know how the rest of the doctor's day goes, outside of what you see on your job.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is crazy. Totally clinical experience.

I had a friend who has been a critical care RN longer than me, told in an interview "he doesn't know what doctors do"

I have around 10,000 hours of clinical experience in multiple settings. You don’t see all the aspects of a physician’s job until you shadow them. Despite all my exposure, it wasn’t until I shadowed that I really saw all the different things they do every day.

 

[Robin-jay]

Did you shadow a physician (while not working as a CNA)? If you shadowed then you're fine. If you didn't shadow, then you're not.

CNA is great clinical experience, but nothing can replace shadowing.

If your interviewer said CNA doesn't equate to clinical experience, then they are insane.

 

[bornunderatree]

It does help to have had shadowing so that you know how the rest of the doctor's day goes, outside of what you see on your job.

Hauling an open chest back to OR in the middle of the night clearly makes an individual clueless to the dedication and rigor being a physician requires.

 

[LizzyM]

Hauling an open chest back to OR in the middle of the night clearly makes an individual clueless to the dedication and rigor being a physician requires.

It isn't just about dedication and rigor... it is about how much of the day/week is devoted to face-to-face interaction with patients, how much time is spent on documentation and insurance stuff, how much is team meetings without patients present, how much is team/family meetings, how much is CME. Some physicians are in different settings over the course of the week and others are not. It is important to grasp that, too.

 

[bornunderatree]

It isn't just about dedication and rigor... it is about how much of the day/week is devoted to face-to-face interaction with patients, how much time is spent on documentation and insurance stuff, how much is team meetings without patients present, how much is team/family meetings, how much is CME. Some physicians are in different settings over the course of the week and others are not. It is important to grasp that, too.

I respectfully disagree with your statement.
A critical care RN with tens of thousands of hours has a 100% understanding of the above. Plus the countless hours spent in M&M meetings, on process and quality improvement projects, and educating new members of the healthcare team.

 

[LizzyM]

I respectfully disagree with your statement.
A critical care RN with tens of thousands of hours has a 100% understanding of the above. Plus the countless hours spent in M&M meetings, on process and quality improvement projects, and educating new members of the healthcare team.

A nurse is not a physician. Critical care is not primary care. You got lucky. Good luck with medical school.

 

[bornunderatree]

A nurse is not a physician. Critical care is not primary care. You got lucky. Good luck with medical school.

Nurses work in all practice environments. Discounting interdisciplinary clinical experience as somehow inferior to shadowing will not advance the profession of medicine nor the health of populations.

I am lucky.

 

[KdotLB]

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[Premed2295]

Ive worked as a CNA for many years and on all my recent interviews the people considered it clinical experiencing. I did some shadowing too obviously, but its clinical

 

[LizzyM]

CNA is clinical care. Being a nurse is clinical care. Being a hospital volunteer who does transport or sits with patients or plays with pediatric patients is clinical.

These days, none of those clinical experiences is sufficient. Shadowing has its own tag in the AMCAS experience section and it is becoming another unwritten box to check that has no substitute.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm not here for a fight; I'm just telling you what you are likely to be up against in the application process.

 

[21Rush12]

As LizzyM seems to be explaining, it isn’t a question of the merit or value of a service provided that is in question regarding nursing experience. Consider the parallel case of Chemical Plant Operators: while they often have an extensive understanding of their production process and have dedicated their time and hard work to perform their very important jobs effectively, a lifetime spent in their shoes will never prepare someone to be an engineer. The jobs are just too different.

Demonstration of one’s understanding of a doctor’s role and responsibilities is what admissions officers are after. There isn’t a substitute for seeing a doctor’s day for yourself from start to finish, and I say this as someone with a not-insignificant amount of various clinical work experience.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hauling an open chest back to OR in the middle of the night clearly makes an individual clueless to the dedication and rigor being a physician requires.

As someone who has been there, I can tell you that those experiences are not giving you the whole picture of what a physician does. I have raced to the hospital for many an emergency, but you can’t know what a doctor does without shadowing for 20-30 hours.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

As LizzyM seems to be explaining, it isn’t a question of the merit or value of a service provided that is in question regarding nursing experience. Consider the parallel case of Chemical Plant Operators: while they often have an extensive understanding of their production process and have dedicated their time and hard work to perform their very important jobs effectively, a lifetime spent in their shoes will never prepare someone to be an engineer. The jobs are just too different.

Demonstration of one’s understanding of a doctor’s role and responsibilities is what admissions officers are after. There isn’t a substitute for seeing a doctor’s day for yourself from start to finish, and I say this as someone with a not-insignificant amount of various clinical work experience.

Completely unrelated, but your status reminded me of Ready Player One. Have you read it? There’s a whole scene full of Rush references.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Attending physician here.

This whole shadowing thing is hilarious. Like following a doctor around for 20 or 30 hours shows you what it's "really like to be a doctor". I guess I really understand what it's like to be an engineer since my dad took me to "take your kid to work day" a few times. I shadowed doctors from several specialties before medical school and it didn't prepare me for crap.

On the other hand my ED tech experience was invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But who knows, maybe tagging along as someone's annoying shadow for another 10 hours would have prepared me for this better than the thousands of hours I spent actually being with patients, listening to them while I applied splints or cleaned their wounds, watched the interactions of physicians and nurses, and saw the day-in and day-out grind that our team, including the doctors, went through.

Whether you agree with it or not, it’s what is expected by adcoms. Telling premeds it’s pointless is doing them a disservice (in general, not you specifically).

Additionally, I have 10,000 hours of clinical experience in the operating room and as a primary care provider. I initially felt shadowing was unnecessary, but I’m glad I did it for three reasons: 1) despite all those hours, when I showed my app to an adcom, they told me that I needed shadowing, particularly in primary care; 2) I got to see what doctors do in fields other than what my experiences were in; and 3) there are things doctors do that you don’t see when you’re working as a tech. Even when I was delivering primary care, it was still nice to see how a physician does it.

 

[LizzyM]

One thing that might be eye opening to some techs is how little time a physician spends with any given patient and in direct care as a proportion of total time. This varies by field and by setting but nurses and techs spend far more time one-on-one with a given patient than the physician does. Some people may not be aware of that and they may have a skewed idea of what they'll be doing as a physician.

Anyway, people love to argue that volunteering is a waste of time and that shadowing is a waste of time but the fact remains that adcoms expect it and given the volume of applications, if you don't present them with what they're looking for they will move on to someone who does.

 

[21Rush12]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive I haven’t even heard of it actually...the status is a 2112 reference clearly.

@Mr. Hat Yes it sounds silly when you put it that way. It is just a reality of the admissions process these days. Shadowing to gain some profound vision of medicine is a bit ridiculous but there are a lot stupider hoops to jump through to pass muster.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive I haven’t even heard of it actually...the status is a 2112 reference clearly.

@Mr. Hat Yes it sounds silly when you put it that way. It is just a reality of the admissions process these days. Shadowing to gain some profound vision of medicine is a bit ridiculous but there are a lot stupider hoops to jump through to pass muster.

Yeah, I get the reference. The book has a ton of 80s references, including an entire scene about Rush. It’s a good book if you’re into sci fi.

 

[Goro]

Attending physician here.

This whole shadowing thing is hilarious. Like following a doctor around for 20 or 30 hours shows you what it's "really like to be a doctor". I guess I really understand what it's like to be an engineer since my dad took me to "take your kid to work day" a few times. I shadowed doctors from several specialties before medical school and it didn't prepare me for crap.

On the other hand my ED tech experience was invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But who knows, maybe tagging along as someone's annoying shadow for another 10 hours would have prepared me for this better than the thousands of hours I spent actually being with patients, listening to them while I applied splints or cleaned their wounds, watched the interactions of physicians and nurses, and saw the day-in and day-out grind that our team, including the doctors, went through.

To me, shadowing tells someone what a doctor's day is like and how they approach the practice of Medicine.
You may think it hilarious, but it's a requirement now.
OP, the interviewer was either trying to goad you, or a complete *****.

 

[DoctorSnow]

I have been working throughout college as a nursing assistant in a variety of settings - group home, home health care, hospital. At my most recent interview, my interviewer basically dismissed these experiences, saying they weren't actually clinical because all nursing assistants do is take vitals and clean people up, and also that I work with more with nurses and not doctors so it's not exposure to the physicians role. I have other shadowing and clinical experiences etc. in addition to being a nursing assistant, but I was shocked that she said that working as a NA "doesn't count". Is this a typical opinion among adcoms?

I completely disagree with that adcom. I have ~1200 hours of clinical experience as a NA in almost every department of the hospital and can 100% describe what a doctor/resident's day would be like. Most of the times (if I'm lucky to not be too busy), they allow me to go on rounds and bedside reports to the attendings. Whoever told you that doesn't truly understand what NAs do! It taught me things like compassion and understanding. If anything Nursing Assistant and scribes are very good jobs to have during undergrad. Way better than phlebotomy...

***Also shadowing hours are crucial to prove you do know exactly what you're signing up for though!!!

 

[KdotLB]

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