Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title

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Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title

John McDonough, an advanced practice registered nurse, has for years identified as a “nurse anesthesiologist,” and he tells his patients the same. Now he can do it with the blessing of the Florida Board of Nursing, which at a meeting last week in Fort Myers unanimously agreed to allow McDonough...

cbs12.com

 

[coffeebythelake]

Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title

John McDonough, an advanced practice registered nurse, has for years identified as a “nurse anesthesiologist,” and he tells his patients the same. Now he can do it with the blessing of the Florida Board of Nursing, which at a meeting last week in Fort Myers unanimously agreed to allow McDonough...

cbs12.com

Dangerous nurses

 

[deleted171991]

Dangerous nurses

That's like saying physician anesthesiologist. The latter should always imply the former. 😉

 

[Rich91]

Still have nurse in the title, would rather have taken "anesthetist" then "nurse anesthesiologist" but then theyd get less political clout from nursing unions

 

[T-burglar]

Lmao whatever

I’ve always liked the term anesthetist more than anesthesiologist anyway, it’s a terrible mouthful.

Also, “anesthesia” hardly describes the entirety of what we do in the OR

 

[turnupthegas]

These people are insufferable. MD only forever.

 

[Consigliere]

Jesus. How small is this guy's penis?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Jesus. How small is this guy's penis?

You can measure it by how many letters he has after his name. Getting longer all the time!

 

[coffeebythelake]

You can measure it by how many letters he has after his name. Getting longer all the time!

In his own mind

 

[Sublimazing]

Something somewhat similar in the Dental world, the Implantologists, Dental Anesthesiologists, and Cosmetic Dentists (none of which were previously recognized by the ADA as specialties) were going state by state suing for the right to be called Specialists. And in Texas (and maybe florida?) the courts found that a state dental board didn’t have the right to prevent an individual from calling themselves a specialist.

 

[BLADEMDA]

That's like saying physician anesthesiologist. The latter should always imply the former. 😉

No longer. Now, the term "Physician" is no longer implied and must be specified.

 

[turnupthegas]

These boards go around and call themselves whatever they want by their own board. The ASA, AMA, etc should state that while they call themselves whatever the **** they want, WE don’t recognize them as such. A mall cop isn’t special ops.

 

[Lecithin5]

This guy must be the most miserable wannabe with the biggest inferiority complex on the face of the earth

 

[Mman]

these sort of issues are most effectively dealt with at the local level with hospital by laws. It's quite easy to stipulate how people must refer to themselves in front of patients and revoke their credentials if they do not.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

I wonder what it’s like to always wanted to have gone to medical school, but couldn’t. The feeling must really suck.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

What a loser.

Reminds me of a CRNA from where I went to med school. We all had little badges under our ID cards that specified who we were - doctor, nurse, med student, nurse Anesthetist etc. This dude literally cut his card to remove the “nurse” from nurse anesthetist so it only said anesthetist. Never got called out for it by any of the faculty smh.

Wife probably beats him on the regular.

 

[clubdeac]

Is the AMA or ABA doing anything to protect its turf? I feel like nurse anesthetists having been trying to expand their scope and practice independently for years with very little if any pushback by the ABA. If they don’t start putting up a fight you guys are gonna see your profession be taken over by “equally trained and educated” providers like the dimwit above that claim to offer equal care at a fraction of the cost! Seriously, we as physicians need to step it up

 

[AdmiralChz]

Is the AMA or ABA doing anything to protect its turf? I feel like nurse anesthetists having been trying to expand their scope and practice independently for years with very little if any pushback by the ABA. If they don’t start putting up a fight you guys are gonna see your profession be taken over by “equally trained and educated” providers like the dimwit above that claim to offer equal care at a fraction of the cost! Seriously, we as physicians need to step it up

ABA is only in the business of certifying board examinations for residency grads, they aren’t really in the politics business. Nurses aren’t asking the ABA for their board certification as they have their own. What you ask is more the ASA, which has been plus/minus in effectiveness.

Don’t get me started on the AMA. It lost credibility with every specialty society by supporting (and continuing to) a deeply flawed Obamacare plan. It became much more of a political machine and sadly has left physicians out to dry. In the past 10 years the AMA has been completely asleep at the wheel with regards to mid level encroachment and corporatization of medicine... just sat there while NPs gained independent practice and displaced PCPs around the country. Says nothing to PAs and NPs arguing for independence in the ER and beyond. They suck, you won’t find help there. Even though my practice pays for a membership I refuse to sign up.

Only positive thing the AMA does is provide a big CME credit certificate when you get board certified - helps with state CME when you are starting out.

 

[linkin06]

The ASA is still too busy playing nice.

PAC Profile: American Society of Anesthesiologists

American Society of Anesthesiologists raised $4,528,927 in the 2017-2018 election cycle. See the details.

www.opensecrets.org

PAC Profile: American Assn of Nurse Anesthetists

American Assn of Nurse Anesthetists raised $1,602,904 in the 2017-2018 election cycle. See the details.

www.opensecrets.org

I thought the lobbying game was all about cash, but ASA spends 3x the money for 1/3 the results

 

[clubdeac]

It’s sad .... something needs to be done or there will be no point in going to Med school within the next decade. Maybe that’s where our efforts need to be directed, the institutions of medical education?

 

[d9sccr]

It’s sad .... something needs to be done or there will be no point in going to Med school within the next decade. Maybe that’s where our efforts need to be directed, the institutions of medical education?

Why? They'll just hike tuition to cover the lost revenue

 

[NicMouse64]

It’s sad .... something needs to be done or there will be no point in going to Med school within the next decade. Maybe that’s where our efforts need to be directed, the institutions of medical education?

There are grass roots physician organizations that are doing just that. Not the AMA, ABA, or ASA. Think AAEM, PPA, PPP.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Is there a way to possibly nail them false advertising?

 

[alphaholic06]

The Importance of a Title: Anesthesiologist vs. Nurse Anesthetist

Your job title probably means a lot to you.It might even be as important to you as your birth-given name. You went to school so that you could write specific le...

allnurses.com

Quote from the Article:."I’m not a technician. I am not a physician extender. I am not a mid-level provider. I am, in fact, a scientific expert on the art and science of anesthesia. So I think anesthesiologist is a perfectly acceptable term, especially since the term anesthetist has been hijacked from my profession.”

 

[Endee]

They use the fact that AAs have been using the generic small-a term “anesthetist” as a justification for them to push to be called “nurse anesthesiologist”. The hand wringing at the thought that CAAs and CRNAs do the same job at the same level is pretty funny. They can’t handle it, despite the fact that we work together across the country as peers.

“Anesthetist” is a word that has been around since the 19th century, predating any anesthesiologist or CRNA. It was the word used to refer to whoever was providing an anesthetic: back then it was medical students, nurses, physicians, whoever. They don’t want to acknowledge that it’s a generic term. “Anesthesiologist” on the other hand was a word created specifically to refer to a physician specializing in the then-nascent field of anesthesiology.

Their hubris knows no boundaries. I’m happy that the AA community spurred them to push this title thing. It exposes them for what they are and (hopefully) anesthesia groups around the country realize what is going on and ask themselves “why are we still training and/or hiring these people?”

The Importance of a Title: Anesthesiologist vs. Nurse Anesthetist

Your job title probably means a lot to you.It might even be as important to you as your birth-given name. You went to school so that you could write specific le...

allnurses.com

Quote from the Article:."I’m not a technician. I am not a physician extender. I am not a mid-level provider. I am, in fact, a scientific expert on the art and science of anesthesia. So I think anesthesiologist is a perfectly acceptable term, especially since the term anesthetist has been hijacked from my profession.”

 

[ProRealDoc]

The Importance of a Title: Anesthesiologist vs. Nurse Anesthetist

Your job title probably means a lot to you.It might even be as important to you as your birth-given name. You went to school so that you could write specific le...

allnurses.com

Quote from the Article:."I’m not a technician. I am not a physician extender. I am not a mid-level provider. I am, in fact, a scientific expert on the art and science of anesthesia. So I think anesthesiologist is a perfectly acceptable term, especially since the term anesthetist has been hijacked from my profession.”

 

[BLADEMDA]

The state legislatures must respond to this confusing use of titles. Unless the legislatures act the AANA will rightfully claim victory and all CRNAs will begins to refer to themselves as Doctors of Nurse Anesthesiology in clinical settings.

 

[Iso4ane]

For some old school SAT goodness: Cop is to Mall Cop as ....Anesthesiologist is to?

 

[gasdoc77]

The ASA is still too busy playing nice.

PAC Profile: American Society of Anesthesiologists

American Society of Anesthesiologists raised $4,528,927 in the 2017-2018 election cycle. See the details.

www.opensecrets.org

PAC Profile: American Assn of Nurse Anesthetists

American Assn of Nurse Anesthetists raised $1,602,904 in the 2017-2018 election cycle. See the details.

www.opensecrets.org

I thought the lobbying game was all about cash, but ASA spends 3x the money for 1/3 the results

If the ASA cared at all, they would adopt the position that anesthesia delivery should always involve an anesthesiologist either personally delivering or directing (didn’t the WHO or someone like that say as much?). Failure to take this position reflects the lobbying power of the AMC’s and any other practice models profiteering off of physician extenders.

 

[Twiggidy]

3 of the top 6 threads on this forum are related to nurses or nursing.........

i love this field

 

[deleted50478]

3 of the top 6 threads on this forum are related to nurses or nursing.........

i love this field

The top 3 recent threads are:
Trump
USAP
Cars

Progress!

 

[GaseousClay]

everyone make a concerted effort to introduce them as the "anesthesia nurse"

 

[Tman507]

I think it should be made part of legislation (if it is not already) that every health provider specify their profession and/or indication to a patient as well, they atleast have the right to know who is involved in their treatment. Half of the patients can't tell the difference between a doctor and a medstudent, or sometimes medstudent and nurse. "Hi I'm a med student/student doctor, I would like to perform a general examination on you", "I'm an ophthalmologist/eye doctor" , "I'm a nurse with a doctorate that specialized in anesthesiology and will be taking care of you throughout your operation" etc.....either way, most patients just want to be treated, they couldn't care less about the title of the person, some do, but if you are the only person that can see to them at that time or provide the same service then they'll take it.

If you're not happy/or have an Inferiority complex bcos of your profession, then that's on you, don't spoil things for someone else... That goes for all professions, not only CRNAs...If you're an internalist with an interest/focus on cardio, let them know that....if you're Fam med with focus on derms, let them know your profession....I know some would like patients to see them as an MD anesthesiologist or Dermatologist... But they do deserve the truth though... Be proud of your professions and limitations... A good physician knows their limitations
Just looking at things from an ethical point of view

 

[epidural man]

Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title

John McDonough, an advanced practice registered nurse, has for years identified as a “nurse anesthesiologist,” and he tells his patients the same. Now he can do it with the blessing of the Florida Board of Nursing, which at a meeting last week in Fort Myers unanimously agreed to allow McDonough...

cbs12.com

This is upsetting.

I would like to ask those in the AANA what the goal is.

For example, they seem to shout at the top of their lungs they are a better option. This implies they want to be known as something DIFFERENT from us.

But then they want a naming scheme that allows them to secretly hide behind a title and make it appear they are not what they are.

So my question is...what is the goal? What do they want?

And we should make them define that. Then we should give that to them - but make it clear, they have to stick with what they ask for.

Who cares what we call each other. It just needs to be CRYSTAL CLEAR that we are not them. And they need to agree that whatever they decide to call themselves, they need to be okay with what we then decide to call ourselves - and they need to agree to enforce and clearly state these differences.

It's funny, I was talking to my 13 y/o son - who wants to be an anesthesiologist. I told him he should become a CRNA. I told him they think they are just as good, and maybe they are...who knows. He then asked me how you become a CRNA and how you become an anesthesiologist. Then, without prompting, he said - "Wow. Those are not the same at all. An MD is way better!"

Ha!

 

[deleted126335]

This is upsetting.



...So my question is...what is the goal? What do they want?...

To be considered interchangeable with us in terms of professional standing, authority, autonomy, scope, compensation. To throw off the yoke of supervision. Obviously.

 

[pmichaelmd]

One of the heads of my regional program during residency had done it all, started as a nurse aide, then was an RN, then a BSN-RN, then ICU, then CRNA school, practiced for a bit, then to med school, did an anesthesia residency, a regional fellowship, and ended up with us. He is the first to say that he had no idea the breadth of information of which he was ignorant when he was a CRNA. Truly, ignorance is bliss and sometimes that is comforting to those who have little desire to understand this.
I am a reasonably good test taker and might be able to pass the bar exam after several months of study. Does this make me a lawyer? Nope. We can read the same texts and regurgitate some of the same things in the setting of a standardized exam, but the context of learning this information makes all of the difference.
Please understand that this does not imply that CRNAs don't have innate value as part of the ACT. They extend our ability to care for our patients in parallel instead of in series.
Cheers!

 

[AdmiralChz]

I am a reasonably good test taker and might be able to pass the bar exam after several months of study. Does this make me a lawyer? Nope.

Not to derail too much, but in the state of California the answer is yes! A layperson can take the bar and practice by “reading the law.” See Kardashian, Kim.

Kim Kardashian spends her Labor Day holiday studying contracts law

Kim Kardashian spent her Labor Day holiday studying contracts law in preparation to take the bar exam in 2022 and become a lawyer.

www.google.com

 

[pmichaelmd]

I saw that. I am not sure what that says about the profession, at least in California. What has become of the "noble professions?"
Just wow.

 

[jwk]

This is upsetting.

I would like to ask those in the AANA what the goal is.

For example, they seem to shout at the top of their lungs they are a better option. This implies they want to be known as something DIFFERENT from us.

But then they want a naming scheme that allows them to secretly hide behind a title and make it appear they are not what they are.

So my question is...what is the goal? What do they want?

And we should make them define that. Then we should give that to them - but make it clear, they have to stick with what they ask for.

Who cares what we call each other. It just needs to be CRYSTAL CLEAR that we are not them. And they need to agree that whatever they decide to call themselves, they need to be okay with what we then decide to call ourselves - and they need to agree to enforce and clearly state these differences.

It's funny, I was talking to my 13 y/o son - who wants to be an anesthesiologist. I told him he should become a CRNA. I told him they think they are just as good, and maybe they are...who knows. He then asked me how you become a CRNA and how you become an anesthesiologist. Then, without prompting, he said - "Wow. Those are not the same at all. An MD is way better!"

Ha!

It's so irritating to watch the CRNAs. They scream and whine about MDs being anti-competitive, but never miss an opportunity to bash AAs. Pathetic that they can't stand on their own and be happy with it.

 

[GaseousClay]

One of the heads of my regional program during residency had done it all, started as a nurse aide, then was an RN, then a BSN-RN, then ICU, then CRNA school, practiced for a bit, then to med school, did an anesthesia residency, a regional fellowship, and ended up with us. He is the first to say that he had no idea the breadth of information of which he was ignorant when he was a CRNA. Truly, ignorance is bliss and sometimes that is comforting to those who have little desire to understand this.
I am a reasonably good test taker and might be able to pass the bar exam after several months of study. Does this make me a lawyer? Nope. We can read the same texts and regurgitate some of the same things in the setting of a standardized exam, but the context of learning this information makes all of the difference.
Please understand that this does not imply that CRNAs don't have innate value as part of the ACT. They extend our ability to care for our patients in parallel instead of in series.
Cheers!

I mean thats admirable and all but holy smokes thats a lot of wasted years.

 

[DokterMom]

Is the AMA or ABA doing anything to protect its turf? I feel like nurse anesthetists having been trying to expand their scope and practice independently for years with very little if any pushback by the ABA. If they don’t start putting up a fight you guys are gonna see your profession be taken over by “equally trained and educated” providers like the dimwit above that claim to offer equal care at a fraction of the cost! Seriously, we as physicians need to step it up

Look at those mean doctors bullying and demeaning all those hard-working dedicated nurses! (not gonna play well...)

Seems to me the wiser strategy might be pushing for more extensive training requirements and qualifying exams for advanced practice nurses in the name of patient safety. Slow the pipeline and insist on the kind of "equal training" they say they already have.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

I think it should be made part of legislation (if it is not already) that every health provider specify their profession and/or indication to a patient as well, they atleast have the right to know who is involved in their treatment. Half of the patients can't tell the difference between a doctor and a medstudent, or sometimes medstudent and nurse. "Hi I'm a med student/student doctor, I would like to perform a general examination on you", "I'm an ophthalmologist/eye doctor" , "I'm a nurse with a doctorate that specialized in anesthesiology and will be taking care of you throughout your operation" etc.....either way, most patients just want to be treated, they couldn't care less about the title of the person, some do, but if you are the only person that can see to them at that time or provide the same service then they'll take it.

If you're not happy/or have an Inferiority complex bcos of your profession, then that's on you, don't spoil things for someone else... That goes for all professions, not only CRNAs...If you're an internalist with an interest/focus on cardio, let them know that....if you're Fam med with focus on derms, let them know your profession....I know some would like patients to see them as an MD anesthesiologist or Dermatologist... But they do deserve the truth though... Be proud of your professions and limitations... A good physician knows their limitations
Just looking at things from an ethical point of view

I know a big name local ASA rep in the NE...tried to introduce it as state legislation that everyone must note their title and profession along with photo ID with large letters of what that title is whenever they see patients. I'm not sure where that went.

This is not just an anesthesia problem, this is a problem in all of medicine.This is not the age of midlevels like so many of you guys thought. This is now the age of Noctors.

They dress like you
They are overconfident
They are grossly undertrained
They think they can do your job for marginally less
Ironically they don't want call, high acuity, or to be left holding liability alone in malpractice cases if they injure someone.

Employed attending always referred to CRNAs as "nurse" in front of patients. Many CRNAs act like this a huge insult to be called by their title.

End of day is they are just Noctors...aka not doctors but I feel this is actively encouraged by large health systems and nursing boards to blur the lines.

 

[BLADEMDA]

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"CRNAs who have spouses who are MDAs which are politically against CRNAs are not welcomed. If found out you will be removed. We regularly google the names of random members to determine if this is the case."

 

[BLADEMDA]

So, if we think CRNAs should be supervised in a hospital setting and should not use the title "Anesthesiologist" we are "against CRNAs" politically. That's how far they have come in just 5-6 years.

 

[deleted941485]

So, if we think CRNAs should be supervised in a hospital setting and should not use the title "Anesthesiologist" we are "against CRNAs" politically. That's how far they have come in just 5-6 years.

“Win, Win again, Win more?”

Good to know what’s priority number one among these fraudsters.

Screw patients - just win

 

[Mman]

It's so irritating to watch the CRNAs. They scream and whine about MDs being anti-competitive, but never miss an opportunity to bash AAs. Pathetic that they can't stand on their own and be happy with it.

they are all about phrases like "equal practice" and "top of the license", but they are 100% against it for AAs. Amusing to say the least.

 

[PieOHmy]

I feel sorry for those just coming into the field. Man is the CRNA thing getting rocky

 

[Mman]

I feel sorry for those just coming into the field. Man is the CRNA thing getting rocky

been going on for decades, just more visible with social media now

 

[PieOHmy]

A lot more rocky now. More visible yes. But also more rocky with the DNAP, PHD nursing midlievel movement. Definitely making our lives infinitely more difficult. Blame it on social media all you want, but it is seriously going to become more and more problematic as we move forward.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I feel sorry for those just coming into the field. Man is the CRNA thing getting rocky

I think things for us are definitely getting worse bit by bit over time. Each year the AANA keeps up the pounding and political rhetoric. I don't know when the final blow will come but it wouldn't surprise me to see the AANA and a President Warren or Sanders agree that Medicare rates are more than adequate for this Nursing profession. After all, a Doctor Nurse Anesthesiologist only needs Medicare rates if practicing independently.

Some members on SDN are in denial but others see the slow but steady gains the AANA has made over time. If you aren't prepared for the likely outcome of this war then reconsider your options. I have no time frame as to when the AANA wins the war for "equivalency" but new grads need to prepare for that eventuality.