Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title

[vector2]

Huh?

The tldr version is keep talking like medical school is irrelevant to your practice and I'm sure soon enough the administrators will replace you with "providers" who feel the same way

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[nimbus]

The tldr version is keep talking like medical school is irrelevant to your practice and I'm sure soon enough the administrators will replace you with "providers" who feel the same way

Some of the stuff we learn in medical school is actually irrelevant to the practice of anesthesia. Namely the stuff we forgot.

 

[PieOHmy]

Some of the stuff we learn in medical school is actually irrelevant to the practice of anesthesia. Namely the stuff we forgot.

what was irrelevant?

 

[BLADEMDA]

Some of the stuff we learn in medical school is actually irrelevant to the practice of anesthesia. Namely the stuff we forgot.

Or, we aren't practicing the full extent of our training, e.g, "top of our license"

 

[nimbus]

what was irrelevant?

Memorizing the appearance of derm slides, beef tapeworms, African sleeping sickness, dengue, leishmaniasis, etc, etc. And a multitude of other topics I can’t even remember.

 

[nimbus]

Or, we aren't practicing the full extent of our training, e.g, "top of our license"

Pretty sure 99.9% of people don’t.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Memorizing the appearance of derm slides, beef tapeworms, African sleeping sickness, dengue, etc, etc.

Med School trains everyone to be a general practice physician. Residency trains us to be specialists. I recently asked a supersmart, top of his class, recent Ortho M.D. a general medical question. His response was "I emptied all that out of my head" years ago.

On the other hand, we must know Pulmonary, Cardiac, Renal, neuro extremely well to take care of sick patients. It's our job to understand CKD, IHSS, Pulmonary HTN, Restrictive lung disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Cerebral blood flow, etc just to name a few. This is way above a new grad CRNA knowledge base as they just barely touch these topics.

CRNA training is grossly inferior when it comes to the understanding and treatment of disease processes. Their focus is on "doing" rather than "understanding" the entire spectrum of perioperative care. Most of them are simply not up to the task and when things go wrong they are "just the anesthesia nurse" in the room.

Does it matter? Well, who do you want flying the plane when there are only seconds/minutes to fix the problem. More importantly, I like to believe we alter course before disaster strikes while they fly right into it.

They are "safe providers" because most people don't need a world class pilot to fly the plane and when something does go wrong the anesthesia nurse blames the physician in the room.

 

[nimbus]

Med School trains everyone to be a general practice physician. Residency trains us to be specialists. I recently asked a supersmart, top of his class, recent Ortho M.D. a general medical question. His response was "I emptied all that out of my head" years ago.

On the other hand, we must know Pulmonary, Cardiac, Renal, neuro extremely well to take care of sick patients. It's our job to understand CKD, IHSS, Pulmonary HTN, Restrictive lung disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Cerebral blood flow, etc just to name a few. This is way above a new grad CRNA knowledge base as they just barely touch these topics.

CRNA training is grossly inferior when it comes to the understanding and treatment of disease processes. Their focus is on "doing" rather than "understanding" the entire spectrum perioperative care. Most of them are simply not up to the task and when things go wrong they are "just the anesthesia nurse" in the room.

Agree the topics you list are relevant.

 

[vector2]

Agree the topics you list are relevant.

I'm not going to argue with you that the pathophysiology of leishmaniasis is irrelevant to your current practice, however, even if you were deadset on anesthesiology before going to medical school, there was no guarantee that that was where you were going to end up. Regardless, you are missing the bigger picture. It's unfortunate that almost all nurses and sadly many physicians do not realize that the "point" of a liberal arts undergraduate education and subsequent graduate and doctoral education is not merely to learn a bunch of facts and then to regurgitate them, even if that's what schooling and the endless set of serial examinations feels like.

Maybe colleges and medical schools fail many of us in that regard, but the best schools do not solely emphasize the learning of facts; they also teach students how to think (not to get too much on a tangent, but imo philosophy should be required by all undergrads). This is also why the problem-based learning discussion method of teaching has become so popular. One learns a basic or fundamental principle or fact and then learns how to integrate and apply that knowledge to a real world case/problem/patient etc. The fact that you learned about the pathophys of leishmaniasis is less important than whether you learned how to integrate microbiology knowledge, clinical presentations, and pharmacology to generate a differential diagnosis and treatment plan for a patient with an unknown infection. The same goes for myriad other things in medical school which one thinks are unimportant.

 

[Ronin786]

Memorizing the appearance of derm slides, beef tapeworms, African sleeping sickness, dengue, leishmaniasis, etc, etc. And a multitude of other topics I can’t even remember.

But if you were to end up taking care of a patient with a lysosomal storage disorder, you'd probably have the general know-how to not underestimate its potential anesthetic effects rather than being a CRNA that will just chalk it up as another comorbidity that makes their charting more difficult.

There's enough demeaning of the medical profession without us adding to it. US healthcare and culture has too long made physicians tiptoe around the feelings of practitioners that have a 10th of our knowledge in an effort to avoid making somebody feel dumb. CRNAs and midlevels don't know what they don't know and that will forever be their downfall.

 

[nimbus]

But if you were to end up taking care of a patient with a lysosomal storage disorder, you'd probably have the general know-how to not underestimate its potential anesthetic effects rather than being a CRNA that will just chalk it up as another comorbidity that makes their charting more difficult.

I’d google it just like I did yesterday when my patient told me she was on Vyvanse.

 

[PieOHmy]

I'm not going to argue with you that the pathophysiology of leishmaniasis is irrelevant to your current practice, however, even if you were deadset on anesthesiology before going to medical school, there was no guarantee that that was where you were going to end up. Regardless, you are missing the bigger picture. It's unfortunate that almost all nurses and sadly many physicians do not realize that the "point" of a liberal arts undergraduate education and subsequent graduate and doctoral education is not merely to learn a bunch of facts and then to regurgitate them, even if that's what schooling and the endless set of serial examinations feels like.

Maybe colleges and medical schools fail many of us in that regard, but the best schools do not solely emphasize the learning of facts; they also teach students how to think (not to get too much on a tangent, but imo philosophy should be required by all undergrads). This is also why the problem-based learning discussion method of teaching has become so popular. One learns a basic or fundamental principle or fact and then learns how to integrate and apply that knowledge to a real world case/problem/patient etc. That fact that you learned about the pathophys of leishmaniasis is less important than whether you learned the how to integrate microbiology knowledge, clinical presentations, and pharmacology to generate a differential diagnosis and treatment plan for a patient with an unknown infection. The same goes for myriad other things in medical school which one thinks are unimportant.

Very nicely said.
Thats why discussions, discussions, discussions are key.
My calculus teacher gave 3 exams a semester. He said, it's open book. You can use whatever you want. "it aint gonna help you, but you can use any book!"

Becuase his exams were about understanding rather than regurgitating.
Another point, you have to crawl before you walk. Nobody will say crawling is unimportant.

 

[deleted171991]

But if you were to end up taking care of a patient with a lysosomal storage disorder, you'd probably have the general know-how to not underestimate its potential anesthetic effects rather than being a CRNA that will just chalk it up as another comorbidity that makes their charting more difficult.

There's enough demeaning of the medical profession without us adding to it. US healthcare and culture has too long made physicians tiptoe around the feelings of practitioners that have a 10th of our knowledge in an effort to avoid making somebody feel dumb. CRNAs and midlevels don't know what they don't know and that will forever be their downfall.

This is very true. As an immigrant, it was a cultural shock that I could not call a spade a spade anymore, or that obviously dumb people or decisions could not be called out as such. Add to this the famous Millennial whining and entitlement, and you get the current fall of the Roman Empire.

Back in my home country, if an obviously less educated and intelligent healthcare worker started asking questions about why I wanted to do something with an obvious explanation, the standard answer was "because I am the physician, and that's how I want it". Here they invented the "healthcare team", so that even idiots can feel "valued" and the physician is obliged to keep training his replacements day in and day out. The bean counters hope that monkey see monkey do will make everybody replaceable. They don't aim to use the safest healthcare workers, but the relatively cheapest, because, while the airplanes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in replacement cost and liability, just one human life is not. They think safety comes from protocols, not education. Guess what: humans are not machines, and no protocol can replace a highly educated great mind, especially when time is of essence.

The greatest investor of all times, Warren Buffett, has an investment rule "don't lose money" which is very similar to "first do no harm". Bad investors and most bean counters don't care about them. Except that money can be replaced, but an internal organ will almost never be the same. Most chronic diseases are not due to just one hit, they are the accumulation of multiple bad things during one's lifetime, many unmeasurable yet, including sloppy care from undereducated providers. Not that doctors are perfect, but the sacrifices one has to make just to become a physician selects a cohort with completely different ethics and intellect than the average non-physician (and the difference in education comes on top of that).

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

If I hadn’t met CRNAs that I thought were smarter and more competent than some of the MDs out there, I would have agreed with everything on this thread. Just because we have gone to medical school doesn’t automatically make us the best. The dumbest person to pass medical school is still an MD. If patients, hospitals, or surgeons notice no difference between their CRNAs and anesthesiologists, that’s a failure on the MDs to demonstrate worth. It’s not some scam or miseducation or some conspiracy. Unless if you actually do something that people notice, then I don’t think it really makes a difference who turns the knobs on the gas machine. It’s just not relevant...

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Back in my home country, if an obviously less educated and intelligent healthcare worker started asking questions about why I wanted to do something with an obvious explanation, the standard answer was "because I am the physician, and that's how I want it".

I think I get what you are trying to say here, but that sounds like a terrible work environment. But also after working with a lot of nurses here and in the ICU, some days I would just love to say that...

 

[BLADEMDA]

If I hadn’t met CRNAs that I thought were smarter and more competent than some of the MDs out there, I would have agreed with everything on this thread. Just because we have gone to medical school doesn’t automatically make us the best. The dumbest person to pass medical school is still an MD. If patients, hospitals, or surgeons notice no difference between their CRNAs and anesthesiologists, that’s a failure on the MDs to demonstrate worth. It’s not some scam or miseducation or some conspiracy. Unless if you actually do something that people notice, then I don’t think it really makes a difference who turns the knobs on the gas machine. It’s just not relevant...

We are talking about "medians" here. The median CRNA vs the median Anesthesiologist. IMHO, that gap is significant and noticeable to the nurses and surgeons. The AANA wants their bottom feeders to be solo practitioners as well as their ex-military CRNAs. FYI, I'm pretty sure I do things people around me notice every single day that adds value to the team/process. The question is whether the system will deem those things worthy of a pay differential vs midlevel providers.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[deleted171991]

I think I get what you are trying to say here, but that sounds like a terrible work environment. But also after working with a lot of nurses here and in the ICU, some days I would just love to say that...

It wasn't terrible, au contraire. There was a hierarchy, and everybody was minding their own business, instead of debating the other person. Everybody knew where the buck stopped, and nobody was calling physicians by their first names and whining that "I am a licensed healthcare professional, too". It was a classy business environment with RESPECT for physicians, and for everybody in general, not this colorful scrub backstabbing (passive-)aggressive environment, in which you don't know who's who and who does what.

I am sure I am not telling you anything new. The US used to be the same 40-50 years ago.

 

[RNthenDoc]

If I hadn’t met CRNAs that I thought were smarter and more competent than some of the MDs out there, I would have agreed with everything on this thread. Just because we have gone to medical school doesn’t automatically make us the best. The dumbest person to pass medical school is still an MD. If patients, hospitals, or surgeons notice no difference between their CRNAs and anesthesiologists, that’s a failure on the MDs to demonstrate worth. It’s not some scam or miseducation or some conspiracy. Unless if you actually do something that people notice, then I don’t think it really makes a difference who turns the knobs on the gas machine. It’s just not relevant...

My opinion is that there became a glut of newer nurses, and then a glut of graduate education opportunities for us. Bedside nursing has become a stagnant career that doesn't allow for retirement. It isn't what it was even in the 80s and 90s. The women I worked with who started in the 80's all have pensions, 3x the starting salary, and fantastic 401ks. I sat down with HR and was told I needed to go into management or become an NP if I ever was to retire, so you can see why so many bedside nurses are headed for the door.

This dilutes the educational process. In the olden days, you really *did* work for years and earn good experience prior to becoming an NP. Then, you did so with physician guidance in a totally safe and sane manner. The cardiac ICU RN who works a decade, then gets an NP license and works in a cardiologist's office is not the problem that I hear complaints about.

Folks like me, who finish nursing school and are *instantly* bombarded with offers for NP school end up being the problem.

*MY* NP tuition money is in demand, so they lower standards to make it more enticing to me. Why go to Georgetown for NP when they require actual clinical training? I can use a diploma mill and "sort out my own" clinicals... The quality of education dropped for many schools, and tons of new programs popped up. The frustrating thing is, not *all* nurses are way out of their depth, and not *all* MLPs are practicing beyond their scope, but the ones that do give them a bad name.

For me, at the end of the day I knew I wanted to treat patients, and I knew the route to getting the best training for the best outcomes for them was to attend a solid medical school for four years, and then complete a residency. You have to understand that this path is a rarity, because I flushed $1 million dollars to do it. I would have been a practicing NP in the time it took me just to matriculate at my MD school... That's why nobody wants to go to medical school when they can just become a CRNA and call themselves 'ologists anyway.

If the average premed had the same options, I can guarantee they'd swerve toward the extra million dollars; it isn't some moral failing innate to nursing, but a flaw in the system that has created an overly-tempting "back door" into playing doctor.

 

[Consigliere]

I think things for us are definitely getting worse bit by bit over time. Each year the AANA keeps up the pounding and political rhetoric. I don't know when the final blow will come but it wouldn't surprise me to see the AANA and a President Warren or Sanders agree that Medicare rates are more than adequate for this Nursing profession. After all, a Doctor Nurse Anesthesiologist only needs Medicare rates if practicing independently.

Some members on SDN are in denial but others see the slow but steady gains the AANA has made over time. If you aren't prepared for the likely outcome of this war then reconsider your options. I have no time frame as to when the AANA wins the war for "equivalency" but new grads need to prepare for that eventuality.

President Warren?!? You were wrong about Hiliary and will be wrong about Warren.

 

[Consigliere]

If the average premed had the same options, I can guarantee they'd swerve toward the extra million dollars; it isn't some moral failing innate to nursing, but a flaw in the system that has created an overly-tempting "back door" into playing doctor.

Absolutely they would. Once they move beyond the lies they told during their interview ("Me? I want to do family practice in an isolated town with poor access to healthcare. What about pay? I'll pay THEM for the privilege of taking care of patients!") and see the reality, they will do what most do and rue their poor decision. I would have been a CRNA if I knew then what I know now.

 

[aimedicine]

Stop dignifying this asinine topic with a response, I suggest someone close this thread ASAP. The more we post on this issue the weaker we appear. ultimately having this conversation suggests that there maybe some truth or validity to the idea of a nurse anesthesiologist. I’m embarrassed. Please just close the thread and delete all together if at all possible.

 

[Endee]

It’s already been used against you.

Stop dignifying this asinine topic with a response, I suggest someone close this thread ASAP. The more we post on this issue the weaker we appear. ultimately having this conversation suggests that there maybe some truth or validity to the idea of a nurse anesthesiologist. I’m embarrassed. Please just close the thread and delete all together if at all possible.

 

[BW15]

It’s already been used against you.

View attachment 279911

View attachment 279912

It's funny how these nurse anesthesia assistants will cherry pick a random disgruntled resident/physicians post off SDN that serves them, but will ignore common sense and the hundreds of physicians that are constantly telling them that they are not fit to practice medicine and need to stick to nursing.

 

[GaseousClay]

wow what a true loser

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Omg... wth... my comment wasn’t meant to say CRNAs are equivalent, it was meant to say we as MDs need to strive for excellence and demonstrate our worth. It was said after a bunch of people said just because they’re an MD they’re automatically better. I’m so sorry... I would never refer to a nurse as an anesthesiologist

...I dunno what to say...

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

If I knew how to tweet I would rip this person a new one

 

[Iso4ane]

Omg... wth... my comment wasn’t meant to say CRNAs are equivalent, it was meant to say we as MDs need to strive for excellence and demonstrate our worth. It was said after a bunch of people said just because they’re an MD they’re automatically better. I’m so sorry... I would never refer to a nurse as an anesthesiologist

...I dunno what to say...

The problem is, while I knew what you meant, they will skew (and take out of context) whatever we say to fit their agenda. As we always say this is a
public forum, people are watching.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Omg... wth... my comment wasn’t meant to say CRNAs are equivalent, it was meant to say we as MDs need to strive for excellence and demonstrate our worth. It was said after a bunch of people said just because they’re an MD they’re automatically better. I’m so sorry... I would never refer to a nurse as an anesthesiologist

...I dunno what to say...

 

[Urzuz]

It’s already been used against you.

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The two quoted posters should feel embarrassed and ashamed. I feel sorry that you wasted your time and money going to medical school and residency where you clearly didn't learn enough to meaningfully distinguish yourselves from below average students who became CRNAs, and on top of that have 1/100th of your training.

Pathetic.

 

[BW15]

Omg... wth... my comment wasn’t meant to say CRNAs are equivalent, it was meant to say we as MDs need to strive for excellence and demonstrate our worth. It was said after a bunch of people said just because they’re an MD they’re automatically better. I’m so sorry... I would never refer to a nurse as an anesthesiologist

...I dunno what to say...

If I knew how to tweet I would rip this person a new one

Honestly, maybe you should learn how to tweet just to go comment on that post.

This should be a lesson to all real doctors. Don't EVER entertain the thought that a mid-level nurse assistant or physician assistant is anywhere near equal to a real physician. Even if these are your friends and you are trying to be civil, make it clear that no one is equal to a physician except another physician with equal ACGME training.

When working with these providers, always refer to them as YOUR ASSISTANT to the patient. Make it clear who you are and who your ASSISTANT is. Explain to the patient that there is a real possibility that things can take a turn for the worse during ANY ANESTHETIC and they NEED A REAL DOCTOR there if that happens.

When a patient is telling me something another "doctor" has told them, I always ask if it was a real doctor (aka physician) or if it was a nurse practitioner, nurse anesthesia assistant, physician assistant, chiropractor, etc. Then I correct them and tell them that these are not doctors and they should focus on what their physician has recommended.

 

[nimbus]

I consider nursing to be an honorable and important profession. The nurses I work with feel the same and are proud to be nurses. It’s sad to see so much self loathing among the leadership of the AANA that they feel the need to muddy the waters and change the name of their profession. As I’ve said before, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a CRNA, a certified registered nurse anesthetist. It is a fantastic profession.

 

[tablets]

In 10 more years:

"There are two types of Anesthesiologists: Nurse Anesthesiologists and Physician Anesthesiologists. Nurse Anesthesiologists were the original anesthesia providers but today Physician Anesthesiologists are equally recognized. Both types of Anesthesiologists passed similarly rigorous education and training requirements and are expertly qualified to provide independent care. Which type of anesthesiologist is right for you?"

Should have stopped it before "Nurse Anesthetist". Nobody calls an ICU Nurse a "Nurse Intensivist".

In 10 more years now:

www.anesthesiologist.org

 

[ProRealDoc]

In 10 more years now:

www.anesthesiologist.org

I think the biggest problem here is that we're letting the AANA control the narrative.

 

[BW15]

The ASA should list front and center on their website (and leave it there permanently) that they strictly recommend against all independent practice of anesthesia by nurse anesthesia assistants/mid level providers.

We are still the authority in this medical field. Once these independent practice nurses start messing up, lawyers can point to the ASA website and go to town on all the nurse anesthesia assistants that thought they could practice medicine without proper education.

It's funny because behind closed doors the ASA dislikes the AANA just as much as everyone else with common sense. The leadership just needs to be more vocal about their views.

It seems like the AANA is run by children. I'm not sure if they realize they come off as unprofessional fools to all other professionals.

 

[ProRealDoc]

I think I get what you are trying to say here, but that sounds like a terrible work environment. But also after working with a lot of nurses here and in the ICU, some days I would just love to say that...

Terrible work environment? Most of the world operates on that mindset.

 

[D P356]

It’s already been used against you.

GoPelicans is a radiology resident...so there’s that.

 

[UnoMas]

Ya honestly I'll stop posting here. I kinda stand by what I said but I also stand by my physician colleagues and didn't realize friggin nurses are trolling this board for quotes. Maybe he should quote the part i said CRNA's have 10% of your education. This is so dumb.

Yeah that was dumb commenting on things you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

 

[deleted697535]

Ya honestly I'll stop posting here. I kinda stand by what I said but I also stand by my physician colleagues and didn't realize friggin nurses are trolling this board for quotes. Maybe he should quote the part i said CRNA's have 10% of your education. This is so dumb.

You're an r2 in radiology in the second week of September and you come on here saying we didn't need to go to Med school to practise anesthesia?

Do I have that right? Can someone who is not you Please tell me I have made a mistake? Cause if not you're an absolute ignoramus. You're so stupid it's beyond belief.

Why don't you go to dept head and echo your feelings? You better be good at flipping burgers.

And you 'kinda' stand by what you said. Wtf does that mean? L

 

[deleted171991]

Unfortunately 90% of your education does not matter for anesthesia. Did you really have to do gross anatomy, immunology, do an intern year, etc to deliver anesthesia? All that stuff makes you smarter and proves you can work harder than any nurse on the planet. It doesn't necessarily make you better at your job now.

Monkey see monkey... speak.

 

[GaseousClay]

he prob mad that Google A.I. division and WATSON both dominate him now and in the future at reading all medical imaging.

 

[Apollyon]

I used to remember the first 20+ digits of pi.

Haha, sucker, 30+ years later, I still got it to 35, and I'm just a dumb ER doc!

Really, though, Mental Floss had a pi plate (a metal pie plate with pi on it) that was missing a digit in the first 35. I let them know. You can't buy it anymore.

 

[deleted697535]

GoPelicans said:

Unfortunately 90% of your education does not matter for anesthesia. Did you really have to do gross anatomy, immunology, do an intern year, etc to deliver anesthesia? All that stuff makes you smarter and proves you can work harder than any nurse on the planet. It doesn't necessarily make you better at your job now.

Monkey see monkey... speak.

Jesus that is honestly one of the dumbest things ive ever seen or heard. The guy literally must have no clue what we do or what anyone does outside of chest xray. He obviously never seen a sick patient, parturient or neonate either. God help his future patients. Honestly the dude is a future liability waiting to happen.

And he even 'stood over' his comment

Its actually almost funny how a guy with 14 months experience in a totally different field can have such an opinion... I shudder to think what he thinks of the rest of his colleagues.

 

[deleted171991]

Its actually almost funny how a guy with 14 months experience in a totally different field can have such an opinion... I shudder to think what he thinks of the rest of his colleagues.

It's not funny. It's very-very sad, and I hope students who are considering anesthesia learn from it. This is how many other physicians (including surgeons) and laypeople see us: just some dumb techs, who turn dials and give the "Michael Jackson drug", not highly-educated multidisciplinary consultants, masters of (patho)physiology, pharmacology and needle-based procedures.

 

[Iso4ane]

It's not funny. It's very-very sad, and I hope students who are considering anesthesia learn from it. This is how many other physicians (including surgeons) and laypeople see us: just some dumb techs, who turn dials and give the "Michael Jackson drug", not highly-educated multidisciplinary consultants, masters of (patho)physiology, pharmacology and needle-based procedures.

Honestly, I think part of the reason is we don’t talk to the medical students that are assigned to us. A lot can go on behind the scenes and in our heads, and since we don’t have to talk about our reasoning for doing something (like one would have on medicine rounds) they don’t get to see the magic of anesthesia.

 

[gunslinga]

Hi. I'm also a radiology resident but a year ahead of my colleague who has been posting on this thread. I have to disagree with what he/she has said. Please let me apologize on his/her behalf. It is strange to hear our education being devalued to such an extent.

Anesthesia is a very cerebral/hands-on field and you guys/gals have to be on top of your ****. Kudos to you all.

This is the time we all need to stand together as one no matter what field of medicine we are in. I am saddened that more people do not realize this by now.

 

[blockstar]

The source of why they cry and try to change the name. Cant handle being compared to AAs and having similar roles and names. Seems like theres just a small group of very vocal guys out west worried about AAs outshining them.

 

[mmag]

Also saw this on FB - same Joe who started the GoFundMe campaign for the name change. Some CRNAs can't handle the very existence of Certified Anesthesiologist Assistants. He is very afraid of C-AAs and will do whatever it takes to distract anesthesiologist from fully supporting anesthesiologist assistants legislation.

 

[Endee]

There’s like 50,000 of them and around 3,000 of us in the whole country. They’re putting out more CRNAs every year than the total amount of AAs. And yet somehow they think AAs are an existential threat to CRNAs. I don’t see how the math adds up there.

Also saw this on FB - same Joe who started the GoFundMe campaign for the name change. Some CRNAs can't handle the very existence of Certified Anesthesiologist Assistants. He is very afraid of C-AAs and will do whatever it takes to distract anesthesiologist from fully supporting anesthesiologist assistants legislation.

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[KeikoTanaka]

I’d google it just like I did yesterday when my patient told me she was on Vyvanse.

You didn't know what Vyvanse was? Lol do you live under a rock? Maybe you're just unique in you intentionally work to mentally dump everything you possibly can ^_^;;;