glia25

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apart from the prestige associated with being a physician, what has made you all decide against nursing and to pursue becoming an MD?
 

FiestyFutureDr

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Well for one, they are very different careers. Nursing focuses on patient comfort, care, standard of life, etc, and while physicians also obviously care about these factors, some of the main duties of a physician include diagnosis, prescription of medication, and the possibility of curing the patient. Both have an enormous amount of responsibility to the patient, but in the end, the doctor is in charge of the patient's well being. Both jobs are extremely important and rewarding, and if you are confused as to which one is right for you, maybe you should try shadowing both in the hospital to see which you like more! Also, I want to be a doctor because I just don't look good in printed scrubs.
 

chiz2kul

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I dont like to clean up stuff....if ya catch my drift..
 
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glia25

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agreed, i have done my fair share of shadowing and have seen physicians and nurses in numerous fields...my only concern is that as a physician i will not get the amount of patient interaction i desire...all of the doctors i have worked with have made it a point to spend time with patients, even if that means sacrificing their personal lives...

i was just curious about others' reasons...
 

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I wanted to be the one in charge...I have since learned that even with an MD, I'm going to be told what to do for a long time.
 

glia25

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and if you were asked this question and explained a desire to take charge and your ability to be a good leader, would you likely be viewed as arrogant?
 

fahimaz7

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I want to know the science that is behind the medicine. Even the best trained nurses fail to understand the basic science behind most of our medical treatments and diseases.

MD's training in the basic science is the big difference between a nurse and a physician.

Booyaah.

Ask a cancer nurse to tell you why we are using HSP-90 inhibitors, HDAC inhibitors, MEK inhibitors, PI3-kinase inhibitors, etc... You'll get the response, "to kill the cancer".

Nurses have little knowledge of the mechanisms behind our treatments and have little-to-no molecular training.
 

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I want to know the science that is behind the medicine. Even the best trained nurses fail to understand the basic science behind most of our medical treatments and diseases.

MD's training in the basic science is the big difference between a nurse and a physician.

Booyaah.

Ask a cancer nurse to tell you why we are using HSP-90 inhibitors, HDAC inhibitors, MEK inhibitors, PI3-kinase inhibitors, etc... You'll get the response, "to kill the cancer".

Nurses have little knowledge of the mechanisms behind our treatments and have little-to-no molecular training.

I've been told by a resident that kids who successfully finish all their pre-reqs as premeds have more science knowledge than a nurse. I wouldn't know either way but I was asked why I didn't want to be an NP or a PA and my response was, "Too big of an ego."
 

Kaustikos

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I want to know the science that is behind the medicine. Even the best trained nurses fail to understand the basic science behind most of our medical treatments and diseases.

MD's training in the basic science is the big difference between a nurse and a physician.

Booyaah.

Ask a cancer nurse to tell you why we are using HSP-90 inhibitors, HDAC inhibitors, MEK inhibitors, PI3-kinase inhibitors, etc... You'll get the response, "to kill the cancer".

Nurses have little knowledge of the mechanisms behind our treatments and have little-to-no molecular training.
Albeit, you cannot really blame them since their science courses consist mostly of the same undergraduate courses we take in college - *This is from seeing the courses/lectures offered at Indiana School of Nursing - no flame* with absolutely no emphasis on biochemistry or anything related to molecular biology. They aren't expected to know it unless they further pursue becoming an NP. That and most schools are approx 2-3 years, with little emphasis on science in the latter portions and more emphasis on clinical/healthcare science.

I looked at their courseload and it just didn't even interest me apart from the first year.
 

shiftingmirage

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and if you were asked this question and explained a desire to take charge and your ability to be a good leader, would you likely be viewed as arrogant?

If that was your reason, most likely they would point out that CEO's, school priniples (principals?), government officials...all are 'leaders' so why not go get an MBA, law degree. Don't know if they'd jump to arrogance.

Kaustikos said:
and despite what nurses may tell, the amount of science in nursing is almost non-existant when compared to medicine.

fahimaz7 said:
Ask a cancer nurse to tell you why we are using HSP-90 inhibitors, HDAC inhibitors, MEK inhibitors, PI3-kinase inhibitors, etc... You'll get the response, "to kill the cancer".

Nurses have little knowledge of the mechanisms behind our treatments and have little-to-no molecular training.

One day a nurse will save you from killing someone and you will realize how important/knowledgeable they are.
 

glia25

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One day a nurse will save you from killing someone and you will realize how important/knowledgeable they are.[/quote]

What made you decide to become a doctor as opposed to a nurse?
 
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I've been told by a resident that kids who successfully finish all their pre-reqs as premeds have more science knowledge than a nurse. I wouldn't know either way but if this is true, can I please have prescriptive power too???

Just because I can understand some of the science, doesn't make me want to have that responsibility yet! I have a UG in Cell Bio and a MS in Cell and Molecular Bio. Even with all of that science, I don't feel confident to pick a drug for hypertension (there's like 7 different mechanisms that can be targeted) on a patient.

:)

Pre-meds (with a good science background) will have an easier time understanding "why" then a nurse will.

Case in point- Anti-estrogen therapy in ER+ breast cancer. How do these cells survive in the absence of an antigen?






























Answer: These ER+ breast cancer cells activate their receptor by having point mutations on their receptor that allow them to be constitutively active when they are on the cell membrane. For this reason, HDAC inhibitors (now in clinical trials) are being used with anti-estrogen therapy for resistant breast cancers. The HDAC's have been shown to silence genes that are involved in ER receptor production.

Good stuff.
 

Kaustikos

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If that was your reason, most likely they would point out that CEO's, school priniples (principals?), government officials...all are 'leaders' so why not go get an MBA, law degree. Don't know if they'd jump to arrogance.





One day a nurse will save you from killing someone and you will realize how important/knowledgeable they are.
I never said they weren't helpful :thumbdown: I said what, to me, distinguishes a career in nursing from a career in medicine - the science. Feel free to correct me on that one. Majority of my friends and my fiancee is a nurse, so I know what I say is true and isn't disrespectful by any stretch of the imagination. I've learned how helpful nurses are and I know I'll rely on them numerous times, but I also know the education they receive and what their career entails - something I wouldn't venture into at all.
 

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What made you decide to become a doctor as opposed to a nurse?

Being a nurse never crossed my mind. I initially wanted to be a mathmatician....go figure.

I don't like taking orders from others. I think I'm right. As a nurse, I would be doing the opposite, taking orders. I also support universal health care and think medical service is not obtainable by all. Figure being a doc, I can help most (naive, I know).

What bothered me about the previous comments is that they are insulting the nursing profession. As a physician, nurses will be your future colleagues. How can you think so lowly of them, especially since you haven't even met the nurses you'll be working with? Just because you have an MD doesn't not make you better than the rest of the world. I just wish future doctor's of America would realize this.
 
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fahimaz7

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Shifting, where did anyone say that nurses suck? Find me a nurse that will say her background in basic science is as strong as a MD's and I'll eat my words. I work with some of the most talented nurses that I have ever seen, here at MCG, in a phase 1/2 clinical cancer trials unit. After 20 years of nursing (MS and NP), they come to me to have the new drug mechanisms explained to them. I do a presentation twice a month on new drugs that we have coming into our clinic, so that they can explain to their patients what these new "wonder drugs" are doing to them.
 

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I have always wanted to be the one who makes decisions- I know I won't always be able to but the doctor usually writes orders for the nurse and when I have been in the hospital I always hated when a nurse would say "I can't give you that without doctor permissions or similar stuff" I just want to have more control...

Maybe its ego but I am a pretty down to earth person who just wants to have more say in treatment than administering it. (And I work with nurses each week and LOVE them- I know how vital they are to medicine but it just wasn't the career for me.
 
N

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apart from the prestige associated with being a physician, what has made you all decide against nursing and to pursue becoming an MD?


There is no "prestige" associated with being a physician. If the prestige factor is your motivation for a career in medicine, you are going to be pretty disappointed.

Nursing and medicine are two totally different entities. It's like asking would you rather be an airplane fueler or an airline pilot? They both work at the airport around planes but these are two totally different professions. I had absolutely NO interest in nursing and thus did not want to become a nurse. I had tons of interest in medicine and thus, I became a surgeon.
 
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Kaustikos

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What bothered me about the previous comments is that they are insulting the nursing profession. As a physician, nurses will be your future colleagues. How can you think so lowly of them, especially since you haven't even met the nurses you'll be working with? Just because you have an MD doesn't not make you better than the rest of the world. I just wish future doctor's of America would realize this.
No they weren't. Actually, your comments seem to be worse than mine. You think of nurses as lowly slaves who take commands from doctors without hesitation. You think doctors are no different? From the stories I've told, residency is pretty much just that.

It's actually nurses who are filling the void of primary care by becoming NP's.
 

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the tone of voice used by many poster regarding to nursing really bothers me. I've come to respect them very, very much. True, science are important, but I bet you they can spot mistakes you could make just by their clinical experience.

I went into medicine for the science as well, but there is no need to use that tone regarding to nurses.
 
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chiz2kul

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Being a nurse never crossed my mind. I initially wanted to be a mathmatician....go figure.

I don't like taking orders from others. I think I'm right. As a nurse, I would be doing the opposite, taking orders. I also support universal health care and think medical service is not obtainable by all. Figure being a doc, I can help most (naive, I know).

What bothered me about the previous comments is that they are insulting the nursing profession. As a physician, nurses will be your future colleagues. How can you think so lowly of them, especially since you haven't even met the nurses you'll be working with? Just because you have an MD doesn't not make you better than the rest of the world. I just wish future doctor's of America would realize this.

lol thats the exact attitude that needs to change or simmer down a bit. Maybe i'm judgin you or something, but its attitude like this that feel that nurses dont know jack squat and need to be the one taking others.
You should swallow your own pill.
 
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I'd say :corny: but popcorn and I no longer agree. Dammit. I wonder how old the boxes we've got left are? This thread might be worth it.
 
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fahimaz7

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the tone of voice used by many poster regarding to nursing really bothers me. I've come to respect them very, very much. True, science are important, but I bet you they can spot mistakes you could make just by their clinical experience.

I went into medicine for the science as well, but there is no need to use that tone regarding to nurses.

Doctors are the ones that are supposed to understand the complexity of the human body and be able to apply that said understanding to treat the disease. Where a doctor differs from a nurse is the ability to understand a patients 10 different conditions (all of which must be managed simultaneously) and how a set treatment regime may or may not affect x, y, and z disease.

Nurses are great...at taking care of the patient. Most nurses wouldn't agree with that statement and I don't think that they would be offended by this thread either. On a weekly basis, I have these type of conversations with the ~20 nurses that I work with.

If I had a serious illness, there's no way that I would rely on a nurse to pick my treatment while managing my diabetes, hypertension, COPD, etc. There's a reason why nurses go to doctors when they are sick...


Would you pick a nurse to be the sole provider of care for...

1. Cancer (Oncology nurse)
2. Diabetes (NP)
3. Stroke (NP)
4. Trauma (NP ER certification)
5. Major Infection (NP)
6. Surgery (Surgical nurse)
7. etc?
 

stooges287

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lol thats the exact attitude that needs to change or simmer down a bit. Maybe i'm judgin you or something, but its attitude like this that feel that nurses dont know jack squat and need to be the one taking others.
You should swallow your own pill.

No need to be so judgmental, it's something that everyone believes, but just don't say. Do you go around thinking "I think I'm wrong" all the time?
 

AggieSean

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I want to know the science that is behind the medicine. Even the best trained nurses fail to understand the basic science behind most of our medical treatments and diseases.

MD's training in the basic science is the big difference between a nurse and a physician.

Booyaah.

Ask a cancer nurse to tell you why we are using HSP-90 inhibitors, HDAC inhibitors, MEK inhibitors, PI3-kinase inhibitors, etc... You'll get the response, "to kill the cancer".

Nurses have little knowledge of the mechanisms behind our treatments and have little-to-no molecular training.

Yikes. I:bow: to you and your extensive knowledge. Booyah to that indeed. :rolleyes:
 

AggieSean

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Case in point- Anti-estrogen therapy in ER+ breast cancer. How do these cells survive in the absence of an antigen?



Answer: These ER+ breast cancer cells activate their receptor by having point mutations on their receptor that allow them to be constitutively active when they are on the cell membrane. For this reason, HDAC inhibitors (now in clinical trials) are being used with anti-estrogen therapy for resistant breast cancers. The HDAC's have been shown to silence genes that are involved in ER receptor production.

Good stuff.

QUESTION: What kind of bear is best?

Whew. You're really impressing people. Whoever said that a nurse is gonna save your a** some day is right.
 

fahimaz7

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I don't post on studentdoctor to impress people that...

A. I will never know
B. I will never meet
C. Will never get me to where I want to go.
D. All of the above.

I work in health care (unlike most of the people on the pre-med forum) and I used a real life example to illustrate the difference between RN/NP training and that of a MD/DO. Will a nurse save me? Sure, and I have nothing but respect for them. But, failing to acknowledge the difference and limits of the two is frightening to say the least.

In quite a few fields of medicine, the nurse tells the doctor what to do and he signs his name at the bottom. Nurses are the best care-givers for their patients and are vital to any successful medical practice. Hell, most of them know the patients better than the physicians (due to time constraints) and because of this, make a lot of recommendations for their future care.
 
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In quite a few fields of medicine, the nurse tells the doctor what to do and he signs his name at the bottom. ... Hell, most of them know the patients better than the physicians (due to time constraints) and because of this, make a lot of recommendations for their future care.
it shouldn't be that way, though.
 
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I don't post on studentdoctor to impress people that...

A. I will never know
B. I will never meet
C. Will never get me to where I want to go.
D. All of the above.

I work in health care (unlike most of the people on the pre-med forum) and I used a real life example to illustrate the difference between RN/NP training and that of a MD/DO. Will a nurse save me? Sure, and I have nothing but respect for them. But, failing to acknowledge the difference and limits of the two is frightening to say the least.

In quite a few fields of medicine, the nurse tells the doctor what to do and he signs his name at the bottom.

Then why did you treat us to all of that fun knowledge?

No one (including me, a medical student) doubts that the fund of basic science knowledge between nurses and doctors is very disparate. But parading it around on the internet and saying crap like "booyah" afterwards is really lame. It seriously casts doubt on your assertion that you have "nothing but respect" for nurses.
 

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A lot of people on the "pre-med" forum haven't had the opportunity to apply their basic science understanding to a real-life medical situation. So, I illustrated a scenario that I often see (I eluded to this earlier in the thread) in which a nurse understands what the drug is that we are giving, and yet, can't connect the dots between the two therapies. Not ever person on this forum has as much clinical experience (I sure didn't before I got into clinical trials) as you have and may not have been exposed to a situation that highlighted this difference in training.

If my booyah (which wasn't on the same post as the case) is offensive to you, I apologize. I have 25 nurses that I work with on a daily basis and I often leave the hospital in awe of their kindness, dedication, and intelligence.

Don't judge me based on one "booyah" or think that I'm an 18 year old pre-med that likes to hear himself talk so that I feel "accepted" on this forum.
 
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Being a nurse never crossed my mind. I initially wanted to be a mathmatician....go figure.

I don't like taking orders from others. I think I'm right. As a nurse, I would be doing the opposite, taking orders. I also support universal health care and think medical service is not obtainable by all. Figure being a doc, I can help most (naive, I know).

What bothered me about the previous comments is that they are insulting the nursing profession. As a physician, nurses will be your future colleagues. How can you think so lowly of them, especially since you haven't even met the nurses you'll be working with? Just because you have an MD doesn't not make you better than the rest of the world. I just wish future doctor's of America would realize this.


Ah, the irony...
 

grassisgreener

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I personally chose MD over nursing because I wanted the education, not only of chem (because nurses have to take ochem too) but the vast knowledge of med school! A Dr. can help someone in the highest degree. There is no larger gift or reward than that (at least for me personally).

I do, however, want to the bedside manner of a nurse. Nobody wants a cold MD. :smuggrin:
 
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what if you wanted to become a CRNA? They can work without the supervision of a doctor.
 
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I cannot believe the hostility in this thread.

Wait, yes I can. But presumptuous attitudes defending nurses? When it isn't warranted? Awesome, sign me up!
 

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If you really don't know the relevant difference between nursing and medicine (wtf?!?) please spend some time at a hospital shadowing the many important roles in the health care team - MD/DO, NP, PA, RN, Social Worker, PT, Rad Tech, Pharmacy, PT, Respiratory, CRNA, etc. etc. etc.

Spend some time investigating the field you're interested in before you devote your time, money, and energy pursuing it.
 

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I'm doing medicine because of the added intellectual challenge. Medicine gives me the chance to use my creative intellectual side to help people - put uneloquently, what better use can I put my brains to than saving lives? And I'm interested in research - I want to practice and do research on the side - so the MD allows me to do that. Money really isn't an issue... some nursing professions make an average of $150,000 just like some doctor professions.. neither is prestige. I shadowed this one family practioner - he gets to the office at 7:30 am, closes his practice at 7pm, makes house calls and visits the hospital for rounds, and eats dinner at 10pm every night. And he has a wife! Watching him work, I realized that medicine isn't about money, prestige, or knowledge. It's a life of sacrifice - it's a profession of caring. There has to be some selflessness involved - you can't work crazy hours just for prestige (and if you do... what an empty life!). Why else would surgeons work the crazy hours that they do? Medicine is a service profession. (Unless you just want the 9-5, you can find that too in some specialties ... but in my opinion, sacrifice is at the heart of service, and service is at the heart of medicine).
 
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my only concern is that as a physician i will not get the amount of patient interaction i desire...
I shadowed a doctor who attended his patients' family's graduation ceremonies, funerals, and kept personal letters and cards from all his super-appreciative patients. (He even showed them to me). You CAN be a doctor with lots of patient interaction. You just have to "choose" to become that kind of doctor, and choose the right specialty.
 

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I personally chose MD over nursing because I wanted the education, not only of chem (because nurses have to take ochem too) but the vast knowledge of med school!

Wrong. No nursing program I have ever heard of requires organic chemistry, only a year of general chemistry.
 

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If one is deciding between becoming a primary care doctor and becoming a nurse there are many things in favor of being an RN. The gap in salaries between RNs and PCP is not that huge (especially critical care). When you take into account that most RNs work three 12 hour shifts a week vs a primary care doc working at least 50 hours with little flexibility in the schedule the nurse has a big advantage.
 

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I've been told by a resident that kids who successfully finish all their pre-reqs as premeds have more science knowledge than a nurse. I wouldn't know either way but I was asked why I didn't want to be an NP or a PA and my response was, "Too big of an ego."

Well played.
 
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