NY GPR vs. Associate Dentist

[princecoup]

Hi,

I apologize in advance if I'm posting in the wrong forum, but I just finished my 1st year of dental school in New York.
I have a few questions about life after dental school with regard to GPR's and working right after graduation:

1) I know that New York state requires that you complete a GPR if you plan on working, but could I work at a private practice in another state (like NJ or CT) and then later come back to work in NY without having done a GPR? Does work/experience as an associate dentist replace, or effectively substitute, the need for a 1-year GPR?

2) How competitive is it to join a GPR program? Is there a GPA requirement? Extracurriculars?

3) Do you recommend doing a GPR? If so, why?

For now, I'm interested in pursuing a career in general dentistry.

I hope I can gain some insight into my questions.
Thank you so much!

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[B0wMNj]

1. You could but one year in private practice doesn't equal 1 year in GPR/AEGD. So you could go to NJ/CT, but you would have to work there for 3-5 years I think (I don't remember the exact number for some reason I feel like its 5 though) before you can get NY license. Makes absolutely no sense, but thats the case.


2. Getting into any GPR isn't that hard if you just want to fulfill the requirement, you'll find one no matter what your GPA/extracurriculars. Finding one that is good is a little harder, especially in the NYC area. Most of them aren't that great, and the good ones tend to be selective.

3) I would recommend doing a GPR especially if you can find a good one because it will give you an extra year where you can focus on more complex cases if your program provides this. You can do this in a supervised setting which is better than going at stuff with very little experience on your own. You can really advance your training at a good GPR, because you will find out very quickly dental school teaches you the bare minimum just to get you licensed.

I would recommend you to keep your grades as high as they can be even if you are going to be a general dentist. Learn the material well, it'll serve as a good backbone to build off of. Plus if you decide to specialize late, this will be helpful. Don't limit yourself in any way.

 

[mmc12]

I’d recommend you do a GPR as well. In an ideal world, it would be best if you could go to a private practice and find a dentist who could mentor you and help you out if you are stuck. However, there are very few owner dentists who will actually take time off their schedule (and production) to show you or bail you out if you mess up. In a GPR, if you mess up, there is always an attending to supervise you. In the real world, if you mess up, you could screwed/sued. It’s your dental license, after all... (not the owner’s)

Good GPRs will also allow you to dabble in more advanced procedures (implants, ortho)

 

[dentistjamaica]

The major distinction between the AEGD and GPR programs is the emphasis that the AEGD program places on clinical dentistry in contrast to the emphasis on medical management in the GPR program.


Dental associates are non-owner dentists who work in a dental practice. There are usually two compensation arrangements offered to associates: Employee of the practice. Independent contractor.

 

[HungrilyCandid]

Hi,

I apologize in advance if I'm posting in the wrong forum, but I just finished my 1st year of dental school in New York.
I have a few questions about life after dental school with regard to GPR's and working right after graduation:

1) I know that New York state requires that you complete a GPR if you plan on working, but could I work at a private practice in another state (like NJ or CT) and then later come back to work in NY without having done a GPR? Does work/experience as an associate dentist replace, or effectively substitute, the need for a 1-year GPR?

2) How competitive is it to join a GPR program? Is there a GPA requirement? Extracurriculars?

3) Do you recommend doing a GPR? If so, why?

For now, I'm interested in pursuing a career in general dentistry.

I hope I can gain some insight into my questions.
Thank you so much!

1) 1 year of private practice does not substitute a GPR. If it did, everyone would do the same. You need five years of private practice experience or 1 year of residency.
2) The competitive GPRs/AEGD are competitive because they are worth it. When it comes to residencies, they love seeing research on your CV.
3) I would only recommend residency if you're accepted into a competitive program; otherwise just go into private practice. You will see more patients and get compensated way more.

 

[Rambunctious]

Hi,

I apologize in advance if I'm posting in the wrong forum, but I just finished my 1st year of dental school in New York.
I have a few questions about life after dental school with regard to GPR's and working right after graduation:

1) I know that New York state requires that you complete a GPR if you plan on working, but could I work at a private practice in another state (like NJ or CT) and then later come back to work in NY without having done a GPR? Does work/experience as an associate dentist replace, or effectively substitute, the need for a 1-year GPR?

2) How competitive is it to join a GPR program? Is there a GPA requirement? Extracurriculars?

3) Do you recommend doing a GPR? If so, why?

For now, I'm interested in pursuing a career in general dentistry.

I hope I can gain some insight into my questions.
Thank you so much!

No amount of extra school will be better than working private practice. You see very few patients in school and it feels like you just get bombarded with patients in private practice (at first), but you pick up speed and your quality over time gets better. More school = more debt. You will learn as you go in private practice while actually making decent money. A lot of my classmates that did GPR/AEGD did well, but it doesn't give you crazy advantage over someone that is motivated and goes into practice right after graduating.

 

[HungrilyCandid]

No amount of extra school will be better than working private practice. You see very few patients in school and it feels like you just get bombarded with patients in private practice (at first), but you pick up speed and your quality over time gets better. More school = more debt. You will learn as you go in private practice while actually making decent money. A lot of my classmates that did GPR/AEGD did well, but it doesn't give you crazy advantage over someone that is motivated and goes into practice right after graduating.

Couldn't agree more.

Unless a GPR/AEGD gives you strong implant placement experience or you complete a ton of molar endo under an endodontist attending, I do not believe that a 1 year GPR/AEGD gives you an advantage over 1 year of associateship experience.

 

[2TH MVR]

Couldn't agree more.

Unless a GPR/AEGD gives you strong implant placement experience or you complete a ton of molar endo under an endodontist attending, I do not believe that a 1 year GPR/AEGD gives you an advantage over 1 year of associateship experience.

So .... a dentist employer with a reputation to protect not to mention possible malpractice is going to let a new grad "learn" molar endos, implants on his patients? Also .... this employer is just going to hand over all these high production procedures to a ....... new, inexperienced grad?

Reality. New grads in their 1st year of associateship will be doing all the crap work while the owner dentist does the high production procedures.

 

[HungrilyCandid]

So .... a dentist employer with a reputation to protect not to mention possible malpractice is going to let a new grad "learn" molar endos, implants on his patients? Also .... this employer is just going to hand over all these high production procedures to a ....... new, inexperienced grad?

Reality. New grads in their 1st year of associateship will be doing all the crap work while the owner dentist does the high production procedures.

I was referring to GPRs that teach molar endo/implants, not associateships.

That being said I have friends who were doing molar endos at their first associateships in private practice. The other docs in the office would help them out when needed. We did molar endo in dental school. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some DSOs teach implant placement as well.

Yes, a lot of associateships can be this way, but GPRs can be this way as well with the PGY2s getting all of the complex full mouth rehab cases. It's luck of the draw.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I'm very passionate about encouraging students to skip the GPR and go straight out into practice. There are plenty of dentists willing to teach you. Corporate dental offices often train you via CE. You can always take CE on your own.

My main reasoning for supporting students going straight out into practice is as follows:

1) I believe you will learn more being thrown into a private practice environment than you'll learn getting your hand held at a hospital where you still have to deal with the same administrative BS you deal with in dental school. You'll learn clinically. You'll learn how a dental office runs.

2) You learn a lot about working in a hospital doing a GPR, but that's almost entirely useless in a clinical setting.

3) If you take the extra $100,000 that you'd make working (instead of doing a GPR) and invested it with a 10% return (the historical average of the S&P500), it would be worth $5 million by the time you hit retirement age. Yes, it's great getting more education in a structured environment. It is easy for everyone to tell you to go do it. Hell, go do it for 5 years to make sure you really learn those advanced procedures. The people telling you that have absolutely no concern for your financial well-being, and at some point you have to take control and do what is best for you.

 

[HungrilyCandid]

I'm very passionate about encouraging students to skip the GPR and go straight out into practice. There are plenty of dentists willing to teach you. Corporate dental offices often train you via CE. You can always take CE on your own.

My main reasoning for supporting students going straight out into practice is as follows:

1) I believe you will learn more being thrown into a private practice environment than you'll learn getting your hand held at a hospital where you still have to deal with the same administrative BS you deal with in dental school. You'll learn clinically. You'll learn how a dental office runs.

2) You learn a lot about working in a hospital doing a GPR, but that's almost entirely useless in a clinical setting.

3) If you take the extra $100,000 that you'd make working (instead of doing a GPR) and invested it with a 10% return (the historical average of the S&P500), it would be worth $5 million by the time you hit retirement age. Yes, it's great getting more education in a structured environment. It is easy for everyone to tell you to go do it. Hell, go do it for 5 years to make sure you really learn those advanced procedures. The people telling you that have absolutely no concern for your financial well-being, and at some point you have to take control and do what is best for you.

In reference to Point #1, I sometimes felt as though I had less clinical autonomy in residency than in dental school. Hospitals can be very stingy on materials. We weren't allowed to use articaine (even though it was there). For instance, I was doing a Maxillary molar RCT and lidocaine was not effective. Then and only then did they grant me permission to use it (it worked). This wouldn't have been an issue in dental school. The program director was against us using light body/medium body for implant impressions (presumably to save $). Having red tape as a dental graduate was frustrating after having been a D4 will full autonomy. Meanwhile, my classmates in private practice were cruising running their own clinics and whatnot.

Point #2 can't be emphasized enough. Unless you are on the fence about going into OMFS, there's no point in suffering through being on call to do facial laceration repairs, I&Ds, and consultations for maxillofacial fractures in the ED when you're going into general practice. It sounds exciting on paper, but once you're getting called at 3 AM for the umpteenth time it loses its luster real quick.

I honestly believe the reason NY state implemented the GPR mandate for dental graduates is to have cheap labor for Medicaid patients.

In reference to Point #3, making that extra money can just go so many ways (investing, down payment for house, CE, student loans). The education offered at my GPR was not particularly stellar either. I can learn more in 10 minutes from going on Facebook or DentalTown than I ever did from a one-hour lecture. They were very textbook and more of a repetition of dental school versus teaching me new dental clinical pearls that can be implemented.

 

[AONLINE]

I regularly keep in touch with a classmate that is doing a GPR that is affiliated with our dental school. He complains to me all the time that it feels a lot like 5th year dental school, even the faculty are the same. For example, he has not done a single bone graft procedure, whereas I work for a DSO and do an EXT/bone graft case every other day. And I make more than twice as much as he does. If you want to do a GPR make sure you research it well before you commit a year to it.

 

[HungrilyCandid]

I regularly keep in touch with a classmate that is doing a GPR that is affiliated with our dental school. He complains to me all the time that it feels a lot like 5th year dental school, even the faculty are the same. For example, he has not done a single bone graft procedure, whereas I work for a DSO and do an EXT/bone graft case every other day. And I make more than twice as much as he does. If you want to do a GPR make sure you research it well before you commit a year to it.

Very accurate. I did a GPR and did not come close to doing as many crowns, surgical extractions, or RCTs as my friends in private practice. I actually prepped more crowns in dental school than I did in residency. If you're going to take the 50% pay cut make sure the experience is worth it.

I learned more from my faculty in DS than in residency. A lot of faculty in dental school were retired private practice docs who were there because they wanted to teach. Whereas in residency a good amount of the docs skewed younger and had very little private practice experience.

 

[Firik]

1) 1 year of private practice does not substitute a GPR. If it did, everyone would do the same. You need five years of private practice experience or 1 year of residency.
2) The competitive GPRs/AEGD are competitive because they are worth it. When it comes to residencies, they love seeing research on your CV.
3) I would only recommend residency if you're accepted into a competitive program; otherwise just go into private practice. You will see more patients and get compensated way more.

Side question. I couldn't find information on their official website about 5 years of experience in order to practice in NY. Could you please share the link where you find the info? I assume working 5 years after dental school in any state and regardless of corporate/private practice would fulfill the requirement?

 

[cooliyak]

Side question. I couldn't find information on their official website about 5 years of experience in order to practice in NY. Could you please share the link where you find the info? I assume working 5 years after dental school in any state and regardless of corporate/private practice would fulfill the requirement?

That’s because it’s not true. You only need 2 years of practice in another state if you did not do a residency.

Dentistry | Office of the Professions

*/

www.op.nysed.gov

 

[Firik]

That’s because it’s not true. You only need 2 years of practice in another state if you did not do a residency.

Dentistry | Office of the Professions

*/

www.op.nysed.gov

That is great, thank you!