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Anyone caught up in this? Are the ERs closed etc?
And increase staffing. Sounds like nurses at Montefiore had up to 20 patients. Insane. And no one will ever hold administrators to account.Good for them. If they hold together, they will get what they want. They should ask for the moon. There is no way they will get enough nurses to cover these hospitals unless they get a bunch of hired guns at double the salary.
Reportedly currently have contracts for 300/hr for travel nurses.
Likely no liability for individual nurses. It would be hard to prove that one single nurse striking caused X patient's death. Hospitals may face liability for inability to provide adequate care.Did/can they close the ERs? What about all the patients? What’s the long term liability to each of the nurses? IE their striking causes a patient not to receive care and dies, are they all now liable for wrongful death?
I ask this because our admin advised us of these barriers, to stifle any attempts…
They didn't abandon patients. They gave adequate notice that they won't be showing up to work starting a certain date unless their demands are met.Did/can they close the ERs? What about all the patients? What’s the long term liability to each of the nurses? IE their striking causes a patient not to receive care and dies, are they all now liable for wrongful death?
I ask this because our admin advised us of these barriers, to stifle any attempts…
Did/can they close the ERs? What about all the patients? What’s the long term liability to each of the nurses? IE their striking causes a patient not to receive care and dies, are they all now liable for wrongful death?
I ask this because our admin advised us of these barriers, to stifle any attempts…
They didn't abandon patients. They gave adequate notice that they won't be showing up to work starting a certain date unless their demands are met.
It's similar to giving your resignation notice.
The hospital should be liable on the other hand.
All these corporate ghouls just care about short term profit, zero long term thinking.
If they can literally put you in shackles and have you see patients 24/7 nonstop they would not hesitate to do so.
They don't adapt and adjust their beds situation to accomodate the current staff shortage. They want the remaining staff to stretch and see beyond their capacity. More staff burn out and resign and you have now more shortage. Rinse and repeat until the hospital collapse.
Where are the admins then? On to the next hospital to increase profit for couple of months to a year before destroying it again.
Speaking from first hand experience. My hospital increased bed capacity during COVID to meet demands. Staff showed up and grinded through it. Pandemic kinda ended and we rarely see COVID now but admins figured out we can just continue the current beds capacity and make more money. Month by month physicians and many nurses left one by one. The big corporate now freaking out and wondering why is this location collapsing? They will send their guys to look into it.
Their guys will have the insight of an alcoholic into their 5th withdrawal within one summer and won't see or be able to fix any thing.
I already gave my notice and counting my days out of that situation 🙂
I just hate as you say that 95% of the pain will be taken by the patients while the admins relax comfortably in their beds. I can’t imagine how terrible it would be say to wait 4 months to get your really painful hip replaced, then on the day of surgery it is canceled because someone else is being greedy. This hits close to home, I had a family member die in a hospital during a nursing strike and maybe they would have anyway? I was not a doctor then and I don’t know all the details. But it makes me sick that maybe it could have been avoided if things were different. I sympathize for the however many patients 7000 nurses are responsible for.Other hospitals getting slammered now.
Painful.
The sad part is that as usual the people who will be hurt by this are patients.
But I do hope the RNs hold strong. Wish we MDs would do the same.
......Even if doctors were allowed to unionize and strike I would never do it - the only way it is effective is if no one picks up the work, and it’s not fair to the patients for no one to pick up the work.
Assuming you are an MD, if you were getting paid $30/hr and doing the work of 3-5 nurses, then I doubt you would feel the same.Even if doctors were allowed to unionize and strike I would never do it - the only way it is effective is if no one picks up the work, and it’s not fair to the patients for no one to pick up the work.
NPs often make same or less than RNs. In fact this is why many NPs work as RNs. I mean there's a reason they are all fleeing the bedside.I just hate as you say that 95% of the pain will be taken by the patients while the admins relax comfortably in their beds. I can’t imagine how terrible it would be say to wait 4 months to get your really painful hip replaced, then on the day of surgery it is canceled because someone else is being greedy. This hits close to home, I had a family member die in a hospital during a nursing strike and maybe they would have anyway? I was not a doctor then and I don’t know all the details. But it makes me sick that maybe it could have been avoided if things were different. I sympathize for the however many patients 7000 nurses are responsible for.
It’s just a game for the union leaders and the hospital administrators. The whole thing has to stop being a profit motive. I’m not a communist by any means but I think in the healthcare setting the only way this even sort of works is to have a set pay rate/cap for nurses so there isn’t incentive to hop from place to place and destroy everyone’s institutional knowledge for a few bucks. There still aren’t enough nurses but at least some will stay in place long enough to know where things are.
I would strongly support capping nurse administrator and NP rates at a lower rate than bedside nurses because bedside nurses are more valuable. Maybe that would retain some nurses in actual useful bedside nursing. I would support capping rate for CEO at say 5x the bedside nurse rate. Unions and strikes are not the answer to healthcare IMO because there’s no way to implement them without harming innocent people. I would not be able to sleep for a month if I went on strike and someone died on my floor during a time I was supposed to be there, I would feel personally responsible (though I agree they have no legal liability in this setting, and I hear all of you that they gave plenty of notice to administration ). Even if doctors were allowed to unionize and strike I would never do it - the only way it is effective is if no one picks up the work, and it’s not fair to the patients for no one to pick up the work.
You must not have worked in an NYC hospital. While the rest of the country is working hard to catch up in the race to the bottom, NYC hospitals are legendarily understaffed with nurses, California it is not, and the salaries are terrible for the cost of living. Their demands are reasonable. The hospitals are trying to prove a point, and probably, like the railroads they are hamstrung by their pensions, and someone will force them to arbitrate. Unlike the railroads, these nurses can leave and find easier, higher-paying gigs anywhere.anyone have a summary of what exactly they are asking for? Are their demands reasonable? I am guessing and sincerely hope they are - but curious as to what sorts of ratios they are asking for compared to what they are averaging now? and how much $$ compared to what they are now getting.
I am a 10 year attending. I agree it is not the end of the world, but I feel bad for the patients who are already in the hospitals where the strike occur.T
Are you a med student or resident?
NYC nurses striking is not the end of the world. There are many other hospitals in NYC for patients to go. 10-20:1 staffing ratio is even more deadly than nurses going on strike.
Bad medical care is not better than no care.
I think everyone agrees that pt care comes first but if they staffing half of what is needed, then dragging a dead corpse for a few more yrs not gonna helpI agree it is not the end of the world, but I feel bad for the patients who are already in the hospitals where the strike occur.
I agree. If it were up to me all nurses would get $100/h. Of course it would be nice if my husband got paid more than $17 as an experienced paramedic too. I think $30-50 would be fair for that.Assuming you are an MD, if you were getting paid $30/hr and doing the work of 3-5 nurses, then I doubt you would feel the same.
I agree. If it were up to me all nurses would get $100/h. Of course it would be nice if my husband got paid more than $17 as an experienced paramedic too. I think $30-50 would be fair for that.
I think they need to nationalize health care in terms of ratios and pay for nurses and other ancillary staff. The free market isn’t working here. I agree nurses shouldn’t have more than 4-5 patients. My hospital has them at 4. The system is still going to struggle for the next 20 years as the boomers stop working, get sick and die and there keep being less healthcare workers as the working segment of the population gets smaller. But instead of these frequent pointless and costly local standoffs Congress needs to step in and do their job for once.
nope- never worked anywhere close to NYC - hence why I was asking - if the patient ratios I have heard about are true - that is straight up criminalYou must not have worked in an NYC hospital. While the rest of the country is working hard to catch up in the race to the bottom, NYC hospitals are legendarily understaffed with nurses, California it is not, and the salaries are terrible for the cost of living. Their demands are reasonable. The hospitals are trying to prove a point, and probably, like the railroads they are hamstrung by their pensions, and someone will force them to arbitrate. Unlike the railroads, these nurses can leave and find easier, higher-paying gigs anywhere.
Not as a whole – increasing staffing is a benefit to patient safety. Short-term harms, yes, but long-term gains.The sad part is that as usual the people who will be hurt by this are patients.
Wow, I guess I was wrong. They are paying 7-10x probably for nurses that have no idea how the system works. 3 hired nurses would be equal to an experienced nurse so they literally are paying 900/hr to cover for one nurse. I would love to be a fly on the wall.There is no way they will get enough nurses to cover these hospitals unless they get a bunch of hired guns at double the salary
I agree we need increased staffing, too, but where is it going to come from? Are there a lot of unemployed nurses techs paramedics etc just waiting for staffing and pay to be more reasonable? Again it would help for the federal government to step in and heavily subsidize people to go to nursing school and have a set high federal wage for nurses so we can take care of the increasing number of sick old people. No strike will cause there to be more nurses and everywhere is already short staffed.Not as a whole – increasing staffing is a benefit to patient safety. Short-term harms, yes, but long-term gains.
Assuming you are an MD, if you were getting paid $30/hr and doing the work of 3-5 nurses, then I doubt you would feel the same.
Unfortunately the only thing that gets Congress or politicians to act is a crisis or death. It took the death of Libby Zion for New York to institute 80-hr week for residents. Which later came became the national standard.
Dude! (I know, just a term) I was paid $15/hr 21 years ago, when I worked on the bus as paramedic after grad med school and before starting internship. $17 is bad.Of course it would be nice if my husband got paid more than $17 as an experienced paramedic too. I think $30-50 would be fair for that.
Problem is people are dying each year due to crappy care. Not missing their knee replacements, but literally dying by the thousands. We need a Senator or someone high profile to die as a result of this stuff who can fund a 10M legal bill to fight UNH, Aetna, Humana, Cigna, Kaiser, and all of the other bad actors
that sounds safe
Bet they have 0 takers, Mount Sinai has been corrupt and insane since the mid 90s, this is just more of the same.that sounds safe
I don't really know much about the NYC area hospitals (wife is from there, but never worked inpatient) - if half of what I have heard is true, how hasn't some regulatory board come crashing down on them? Why would any nurse (or other healthcare provider) work at this place when there are literally dozens of other options in close proximity?Bet they have 0 takers, Mount Sinai has been corrupt and insane since the mid 90s, this is just more of the same.
I don't really know much about the NYC area hospitals (wife is from there, but never worked inpatient) - if half of what I have heard is true, how hasn't some regulatory board come crashing down on them? Why would any nurse (or other healthcare provider) work at this place when there are literally dozens of other options in close proximity?
I am tempted to call that number on the post and see what happens- I am willing to bet you can't get through after it was posted publicly,
This is very, and unfortunately, true.Probably because they don't have to do much besides pass meds. When you have phlebotomists do all the bloodwork, residents to transport patients and place ivs, LPNs to take care of the patient, why give up a good thing?
that seem counter intuitive to what the strike is about - on one hand I hear how horribly understaffed they ares, but if the don't have to do as much of the work, you can have a higher ratio - so like - which is it? Is it a crappy job that puts lives at danger, or are they being greedy and just asking to have the same ratios as the rest of the country but with less responsibility on each patient?Probably because they don't have to do much besides pass meds. When you have phlebotomists do all the bloodwork, residents to transport patients and place ivs, LPNs to take care of the patient, why give up a good thing?
20 patients is too manythat seem counter intuitive to what the strike is about - on one hand I hear how horribly understaffed they ares, but if the don't have to do as much of the work, you can have a higher ratio - so like - which is it? Is it a crappy job that puts lives at danger, or are they being greedy and just asking to have the same ratios as the rest of the country but with less responsibility on each patient?
agree completley 20 is way to many- no argument at all - I am just trying to get a clearer picture. 20 seems so ridiculous that it is just hard to believe a hospital would even begin to think that is appropriate20 patients is too many
In the private hospitals, nurses do a fair amount, just not as much as in, say, Iowa
But 20 patients is too many, I don't understand how people can't see that.
I was wondering this myself. I had heard from classmates that did their residencies in NYC hospitals about the ridiculous amount of nursing tasks they did on top of being physicians.Probably because they don't have to do much besides pass meds. When you have phlebotomists do all the bloodwork, residents to transport patients and place ivs, LPNs to take care of the patient, why give up a good thing?